Expanding foam explosion house ruined

baz321

Hi guys . I was using an expanding foam product in a stud wall when the gasses from the foam exploded causing major damage to my house ,luckily I was uninjured .The only source of ignition is a socket in the stud wall a distance of three feet away from the foam ie.no foam came in contact with the socket . There is a small warning on the back of the can that this can occur , I read the instructions and safety of use and there was nothing in that about using more than one can or risk of explosion.i have read the backs of other expanding foams in hardware shops since the incident and none of them have any waning about using more than one can and risk of explosion . Is it just this product that is extremely dangerous ? Anyone have a similar experience .

seamus

You're not clear about what warning was or wasn't on the can.

Any cans using propellants will have standard warnings about being explosive. Foam insulation cans should also have warnings about ventilation. Propellant can ignite but shouldn't explode unless there's a substantial build up of it in the air. Did you have the room adequately ventilated while you were carrying out these works?

Did the can advise switching off your electricity before proceeding?

dudara

I'm going to move this to the DIY forum for now as I don't see it as a CI for now. Feel free to move back to CI if it goes in that direction.

dudara

baz321

seamus wrote: »

You're not clear about what warning was or wasn't on the can.

Any cans using propellants will have standard warnings about being explosive. Foam insulation cans should also have warnings about ventilation. Propellant can ignite but shouldn't explode unless there's a substantial build up of it in the air. Did you have the room adequately ventilated while you were carrying out these works?

Did the can advise switching off your electricity before proceeding?

Hi. I have been told by bostik that there is no propellant used in the product . There was a warning on the back of the can saying using more than one can can cause a build up of gas and a risk of explosion . I was dropping the foam into the wall between the timbers from the attic . The warning on the label is tiny and its like they dont want you to see it .there is nothing about turning off electricty . The other expanding foam cans on the market have no warning about risk of explosions at all .

postitnote

How many cans did you use just out of interest?

baz321

Just one and half cans before explosion took place 750 ml cans .

sbsquarepants

Even without the added cost of explosion repairs, sounds like a fiendishly expensive way to insulate a wall.
I've used it a good few times over the years and it's the first I've heard about any risk of explosion. I'll be a lot more careful with it in future! What kind of damage are we talking about?

_Brian

My friend burst a tin by dropping it in his kitchen and it was some mess.

Half of the unit doors needed refinishing, silver appliances were ruined, it is serious stuff when released like that.

Lucky you weren't injured.

sbsquarepants

Friend of mine done the very same thing. Brand new kitchen was absolutely destroyed! Apparently cooking oil will clean it off while wet - but he found that out too late and fortunately I still haven't tried it!

postitnote

I don't see how Bostik could have any liability then unfortunately.

If you used more than one can in an unventilated area then you haven't followed the warning label on the can.

Unless of course you could prove that the warning was insufficient in size, but I don't know if oversight would be much of a defence.

IMHO count yourself lucky you're alive and move on.

baz321

Was using it to prevent mice entering base of wall .it was one of the last jobs I was doing in a major refurb of the house . The fitted kitchen was on this stud wall , the blast was so severe it threw the wall kitchen cabinets and they hit the far wall along with splash back tiles and plasterboard . Roof tiles are blown off the roof above the stud wall, plasterboard ceilings are pushed down away from the timber with the force of the blast and joints on the boards are all cracked as is plaster on the walls where they meet the ceilings .floor kitchen cabinets are in the middle of floor where the blast forced them , most of the new unused appliances are damaged as I can see so far . I estimate total costs around 30 thousand or more .

Alun

Ouch!

BTW, I wouldn't have thought a bit of expanding foam would put most mice off .. they'd nibble right through it surely?

baz321

You are right I consider myself very lucky I wasn't hurt or killed . The small warning on the can will cover bostiks against a claim . i think the product is so dangerous it shouldnt be sold , I think this will happen again very easily and the next person won't be as lucky .

baz321

It's supposed to stop them , it only looks like crunchies doesn't taste like them

5T3PH3N

Can you post some pictures? This sounds crazy, I can understand how it can happen but I never thought it could create such an explosion.

baz321

After some research on the web I saw a case where a can of bostik expanding foam exploded in a joiners hand it hit his chest so hard it killed him , very sad story he had a young family .

mickdw

baz321 wrote: »

After some research on the web I saw a case where a can of bostik expanding foam exploded in a joiners hand it hit his chest so hard it killed him , very sad story he had a young family .

Jesus are you sure it wasn't a gas line that got disturbed or something. I can see how a foam can explosion might push out a stud wall surface or some such but the level of explosion you are talking about seems quite outrageous.
If you are certain there is nothing else at play here, you really need to contact the manufacturers of that product.
Its shouldn't be that dangerous and I'm sure they are not aware of it being that dangerous. It needs to be withdrawn if responsible for such damage.

postitnote

Just read that there myself. He was pre heating the cans in front of a heater to make it work better.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2010FAI10.html

It was the common practice of the deceased to heat up these canisters to improve the efficacy of their operation.

jameshayes

:eek: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-25319071

baz321

Sorry I'm unable to post pics or links as I'm a new user I have tried .

b318isp

If you are sure it was gases, it may be worthwhile mentioning this to the HSA, as they are responsible for monitoring REACH compliance, which includes the labelling (and use) of substance on the Irish market.

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Your_Industry/Chemicals/REACH/Roles_and_duties_under_REACH/

baz321

I contacted hsa and explained thing to them and they said to contact the consumers association of Ireland I explained things to them and they took my details and were to ring me back .
That was a week ago I will write to them this time, it's their job to look into products that are faulty . Interestingly any products being put on the Irish market are not required to be tested before being sold .

slave1

:eek: Jazuz, I've used untold amount of them down the last few years in filling in here and there, sounds leathal, glad you're okay OP

iano.p

Holy god that sounds like some blast force. I just had a look at the cans I have in the van and none say they can explode. Did you ring the company

baz321

The product is called "sealocrete" marketed by bostik and sold through the grafton group " i bought my can in heiton buckleys .from the little information bostik told me its not made by them ,it only says made in Europe on the can . I'd love to know if its only this product and expanding foam made in this factory that is dangerous .i haven't found any warnings about using more than one can in an area or risk of explosion on any other cans by other makers .

jameshayes

The mirror or one of those other sh!te rags would have a field day with this!

KAGY

Can you tell where explosion originated? In the wall or elsewhere?

It does sound major considering only two cans used.

On a lighter note - the two ads on this page are for dust flamibility and a loss adjuster. Big bro is truely watching

hawkwind23

Thats quite an experience!
Being in the trade for many years ive seen this stuff used extensively , would never imagine a blast from it never mind of the magnitude you have described.
Got to be linked to something else
Glad your ok and hopefully you get to the bottom of it and claw back some of the expense its cost you

baz321

Just waiting on forensics to come this morning , hopefully after that we will be able to start to tidy up and get central heating /electricty back on .im sure bostik wouldn't want bad publicity about their product in the paper !

loyatemu

you should find out if the same stuff was used in the Nottingham house mentioned in the BBC link above - if it was there should be pretty explicit warnings on the can (alright they used 12 cans of the stuff, but I still wouldn't expect it to effectively demolish 3 houses).

Alkers

If you want to PM me some pics, I can put them up in the thread for you.

2 stroke

postitnote wrote: »

Just read that there myself. He was pre heating the cans in front of a heater to make it work better.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2010FAI10.html

I dont use the stuff much, but I've done that myself, though my usual method is a bucket of hot water. I keep the stuff outside, as a can once leaked and caused quite a mess. I guess I'll just bring them to room temp more gradualy in future.

baz321

Yes there's no mention of the name of the product or the people who made it , strange how that is left out !!!.it also mentions the family were happy with the verdict of accidental .
I know I wouldn't be if I lost 2 family members !

RosieJoe

baz321 wrote: »

Hi guys . I was using an expanding foam product in a stud wall when the gasses from the foam exploded causing major damage to my house ,luckily I was uninjured .The only source of ignition is a socket in the stud wall a distance of three feet away from the foam ie.no foam came in contact with the socket . There is a small warning on the back of the can that this can occur , I read the instructions and safety of use and there was nothing in that about using more than one can or risk of explosion.i have read the backs of other expanding foams in hardware shops since the incident and none of them have any waning about using more than one can and risk of explosion . Is it just this product that is extremely dangerous ? Anyone have a similar experience .

Just curious, but how is a socket in the wall capable of being a source of an ignition? Surely you would either need a spark or flame to ignite something.

shedweller

RosieJoe wrote: »

Just curious, but how is a socket in the wall capable of being a source of an ignition? Surely you would either need a spark or flame to ignite something.

If the foam makes its way into the socket it could arc across exposed cables.
Well, the electricity would arc, not the foam....hehe.

2 stroke

The op was sealing for mice, could there already be a chewed cable in the wall? Also is it possibly that electricty might arc more easily through fumes than through air.

Alkers

Here is a picture from the op



Don't know why it's upside down in the post:

http://omg.wthax.org/6KgbRh.jpg

baz321

Wiring all new only a few weeks ago as part of the refurb .There is no expanding foam on the socket or on the new wiring leading to the socket , that was my first thought too .where the spark came from that ignited the fumes is still not confirmed .

air

That's really unfortunate Baz & I hope your house insurance covers it for you. Unfortunately I doubt you will get any comeback from Bostik, using any aerosol product in the confined space would likely have lead to the same results. Every aerosol I've ever come across is flamable, unfortuntately for you the confined space allowed it to mix with the ambient air in the perfect fuel : air ratio. The constriction provided by the walls then ensured you got an explosion rather than just a fireball when the mix was ignited.

deandean

I think a lot of those products use butane gas as a propellant.

littlemac1980

If you're potentially gonna be out of pocket by €30,000, you should really think about talking to a solicitor about this.

They'd be the only one who could tell you for sure if you have potential comeback against the manufacturer - expect to pay for an engineer or relevant person to report on the cause of the explosion also before you get an answer.

But if there was 30K on the line - I'd be seeking professional advice.

baz321

Bostik said there is no propellant used in the can , which is something that I and others don't understand .

Thargor

Are you going to sue? They'll probably settle before they let pics like yours get out, you should take a lot more pics in a lot better quality than that one up there.

air

I'd advise discussing with your insurer immediately and get an assessor out ASAP. I think insurance is your first port of call in order to get the funds back to rectify the damage.
If any legal action down the road ruled in your favour, presumably the insurer would be reimbursed.
If you put all your eggs in the legal basket I'd imagine at best you are likely to have a long wait until you see any cash, at worst you mightn't see any compensation!

Can you link to the actual product? Sealocrete seems to cover a whole range of products but I don't see any expanding foam amongst the range on their website.

Sleveile

baz321 wrote: »

Was using it to prevent mice entering base of wall .it was one of the last jobs I was doing in a major refurb of the house . The fitted kitchen was on this stud wall , the blast was so severe it threw the wall kitchen cabinets and they hit the far wall along with splash back tiles and plasterboard . Roof tiles are blown off the roof above the stud wall, plasterboard ceilings are pushed down away from the timber with the force of the blast and joints on the boards are all cracked as is plaster on the walls where they meet the ceilings .floor kitchen cabinets are in the middle of floor where the blast forced them , most of the new unused appliances are damaged as I can see so far . I estimate total costs around 30 thousand or more .

My dad, a sparks of many many years came across this stuff regularly and he says that mice love it and always came across foam that was eaten through by the little feckers.

wexie

deandean wrote: »

I think a lot of those products use butane gas as a propellant.

I think if that were true we'd see explosions like this every few days.

baz321

I don't want to give too much away as to my plans legal or otherwise as bostik might be watching .lets just say this is an extremely dangerous product in certain conditions , bostik themselves said in an email using more than one can in area and even an electrostatic charge could have ignited it .

Maksim

My advise would be to buy another few cans of this material in same shop and find good chemical expert.

Option 1. Producer used light flamabale materials not declared solvents.
Option 2. Technology fault:some way light solvents occured in your can only (badly mixed).
Option 3. Producer have no fire engineering support and do not know that in confind space expanding material create overpressure leading to rapid rise of temperature in gaseous component following autoignition of vapours normally not flamable. (Like spray of diesel in engine)

Good look in court

slimjimmc

wexie wrote: »

I think if that were true we'd see explosions like this every few days.

Butane is widely used as an aerosol propellant even in household and personal care applications (check a can of antiperspirant).
This foam from Tec7 uses Propane as a propellant (listed in it's MDS)
http://www.tec7.ie/products/pur7

Thargor

Ye never made flamethrowers or bombs from aerosol cans when you were kids?

ted1

Alun wrote: »

Ouch!

BTW, I wouldn't have thought a bit of expanding foam would put most mice off .. they'd nibble right through it surely?

It's pop corn to them. If your are going the legal route edit your posts and remove company name and product name.

A settlement out of court would probably in love a non disclosure agreement, which your jeopardising. Also if you lose in court, you open to a defamation / libel case