Another Anti Crime page setup gone downhill

spookwoman

Anyone following the "Waterford Against Street Crime and Organised Begging page" page that was created today looks like its heading the way of previous ones. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Waterford-Against-Street-Crime-and-Organised-Begging/324044391113543 Posting pictures of people and what they possibly get up to including ref to a possible rape. The tone dropped pretty quickly and every 2nd post has scum f*ckers etc in it.
The header picture seems belongs to someone called Brian aka pure1942, found it on Virtual Tourist.

Goat the dote

I've seen a couple of these pages. Do they actually go up to these people and take their photo?

greenspurs

brave man taking photos of them !

Jambo

Wasn't there another one recently specifically targeting the roma ?

spookwoman

Jambo wrote: »

Wasn't there another one recently specifically targeting the roma ?

think there was, know a few of these anti crime pages start turning into vigilante type pages and the mob come out in force, like the football hooligans. Can imagine they have their own special language using grunt, scratching their privates and farting for communication among themselves.

cookie.monster

this has to be highlighted and people need to know what these scumbags look like so as to be aware while in town, as not every body knows who these thugs are that are robbing,beating, pickpocketing and organised begging on our streets!!!

BuffyBot

I've yet to see one if these pages turn into anything good..

endacl

BuffyBot wrote: »

I've yet to see one if these pages turn into anything good..

B-b-b-but if lots of people like it? Surely crime will stop? Has Kony taught us nothing?

Post this as your status if you ever liked a page, or if you know somebody who likes pages.

Share if you care.

Fate Amenable To Change

spookwoman wrote: »

think there was, know a few of these anti crime pages start turning into vigilante type pages and the mob come out in force, like the football hooligans. Can imagine they have their own special language using grunt, scratching their privates and farting for communication among themselves.

Yep, everything is perfect now and we don't need a change in approach... I like you're impication if you try and communicate anything through facebook about somebody getting the **** kicked out of them you're an animal.... hhahaaha great analogy/implication, you're a proffesional comedian/clown I'm assuming

The Bowling Alley

The only thing more annoying than racism is the politically correct keyboard warriors who think everyone is a racist.

The fact is, there is a crime gang operating in the city under the protection of people's fears of being called racist.

One girl I work with was always defending them, saying its just just a small monority etc- then they stole her new iphone. She's a changed woman now

cookie.monster

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

The only thing more annoying than racism is the politically correct keyboard warriors who think everyone is a racist.

The fact is, there is a crime gang operating in the city under the protection of people's fears of being called racist.

One girl I work with was always defending them, saying its just just a small monority etc- then they stole her new iphone. She's a changed woman now

i hate these bubble wrapped do-gooders who have blinkers on with regards what goes on in our city and when its highlighted the racism card is held up, nice to hear she got a slap of reality, there's a few more on here and on facebook that need that wake up call also!!!

spookwoman

Keyboard warriors is right when every 2nd word is scum and i'll kick their heads in, lalala. Posting lets going down on Saturday and teach them a lesson could be seen as inciting violence Do you know what defamation is? http://www.defamationireland.com Posting pictures with statements like he tried to rape someone when there is no convictions could get the poster and page into a lot of trouble. There are ways of communicating whats going on in the city without lowering the page to thuggery, which is what you are warning people against.
Cookie Monster where did I say anything about the race, please do tell cause you are the one bringing race into it not me.

cookie.monster

spookwoman wrote: »

.
Cookie Monster where did I say anything about the race, please do tell cause you are the one bringing race into it not me.

i,m just saying in general people pull out the racism card!!!!! when all other people are trying to do is inform the people who walk around with there heads in the clouds thinking there safe and that no harm will come to them

flutered

cookie.monster wrote: »

i hate these bubble wrapped do-gooders who have blinkers on with regards what goes on in our city and when its highlighted the racism card is held up, nice to hear she got a slap of reality, there's a few more on here and on facebook that need that wake up call also!!!

these over proteceed species act the same in every town in our fair land

Fate Amenable To Change

spookwoman wrote: »

Keyboard warriors is right when every 2nd word is scum and i'll kick their heads in, lalala. Posting lets going down on Saturday and teach them a lesson could be seen as inciting violence Do you know what defamation is? http://www.defamationireland.com Posting pictures with statements like he tried to rape someone when there is no convictions could get the poster and page into a lot of trouble. There are ways of communicating whats going on in the city without lowering the page to thuggery, which is what you are warning people against.
Cookie Monster where did I say anything about the race, please do tell cause you are the one bringing race into it not me.

You basically said everyone who joins a page against crime against Waterford is an ape and only able to communicate using animal like gestures... obviously some people are upset with people they know being attacked, buying a box of tissues and having a good cry about it won't fix that.

If there is a person going around beating up and robbing people why shouldn't they "have their head kicked in", wouldn't be my solution but its not exactly unfair.

Totally Tropical

Like it or not there are members of a protected community who are robbing and attacking people in the Mannor Street area of the city.You can pull down as many facebook pages as you like and get as many threads as you can on here about the matter deleted but it doesn't change the facts of the situation.We have law's in this country and they apply to everyone.The News and Star are reporting on it as well.Will the liberal do gooders be taking a legal injunction out against that paper now!

http://www.waterford-news.ie/2014/10/07/violent-alley-attacks/

7upfree

Totally Tropical wrote: »

Like it or not there are members of a protected community who are robbing and attacking people in the Mannor Street area of the city.You can pull down as many facebook pages as you like and get as many threads as you can on here about the matter deleted but it doesn't change the facts of the situation.We have law's in this country and they apply to everyone.The News and Star are reporting on it as well.Will the liberal do gooders be taking a legal injunction out against that paper now!

http://www.waterford-news.ie/2014/10/07/violent-alley-attacks/

Ah, the liberals. You won't see any of them volunteering to live next door to these people though.

mooseknunkle

Totally Tropical wrote: »

Like it or not there are members of a protected community who are robbing and attacking people in the Mannor Street area of the city.You can pull down as many facebook pages as you like and get as many threads as you can on here about the matter deleted but it doesn't change the facts of the situation.We have law's in this country and they apply to everyone.The News and Star are reporting on it as well.Will the liberal do gooders be taking a legal injunction out against that paper now!

http://www.waterford-news.ie/2014/10/07/violent-alley-attacks/

The Sunday world had an article about it in todays paper too

BuffyBot

cookie.monster wrote: »

i,m just saying in general people pull out the racism card!!!!! when all other people are trying to do is inform the people who walk around with there heads in the clouds thinking there safe and that no harm will come to them

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

endacl

7upfree wrote: »

Ah, the liberals.

Which side of the Atlantic are you posting from?

:rolleyes:

7upfree

endacl wrote: »

Which side of the Atlantic are you posting from?

:rolleyes:

The one where realists - not dreamers - actually realise what's going on around them.:rolleyes:

7upfree

BuffyBot wrote: »

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

Do you look down upon EVERYONE like this? Or just the ones you don't agree with?

Are some of the comments on that page crude and ill-thought out? Definitely.

But people are fast becoming sick of the inaction by the authorities on what's happening in the City. And want something done about it. Now.

Tell me this - how far has "reasoned debate" (dressed up in most instances as excusing the behaviour of scumbags) actually gotten us? Seriously?

Totally Tropical

BuffyBot wrote: »

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

I have to say that's a nice debating strategy you have just portray anyone who doesn't agree with you as an reactionary idiot who speak ill informed crud.;) Of course some people are going over the top with some comments but that doesn't change the fact that we have members of a certain ethnic minority who have been responsible for a spate of violent robberies and attacks in an area just off Waterford city centre.Just because some idiotic people are spouting racist comments on Facebook doesn't make that situation okay.Of course you have local thugs as well but the issue here is that this violent gang has been given free reign to do as they please.The guards don't want to know about it and the victims of attacks by this gang have been intimidated into silence by people who will brand them as racists.But this issue is not going away.As long as these violent attacks keep happening then it will continue to be highlighted until this gang are bought to justice and held accountable to the law.

Cabaal

7upfree wrote: »

But people are fast becoming sick of the inaction by the authorities on what's happening in the City. And want something done about it. Now.

Tell me this - how far has "reasoned debate" (dressed up in most instances as excusing the behaviour of scumbags) actually gotten us? Seriously?

So you think mob mentality over reasoned, logical debate is better?


You also think mob mentality should replace our legal/policing system?


Last time I checked we have a legal system, its not Joe Soaps job on the street to decide if somebody is guilty of a crime. Thats the job of our legal system.

If somebody has evidence of other people committing a crime then present it to the Gardai, if they don't they ranting, slandering people and/or advocating violence against them or their property on the internet is not the way to go.

I'm surprised at you 7upfree, you have complained countless times about "unethical" behavior of people in goverment/goverment party's over the years but yet you appear to be happy for people to just ignore the laws of this land and do what "they believe is right" to get "justice".
You expect politicians to keep within the law yet you appear fine with Joe Soap on the street doing what they want when it comes to the law.

7upfree

Cabaal wrote: »

So you think mob mentality over reasoned, logical debate is better?


You also think mob mentality should replace our legal/policing system?


Last time I checked we have a legal system, its not Joe Soaps job on the street to decide if somebody is guilty of a crime. Thats the job of our legal system.

If somebody has evidence of other people committing a crime then present it to the Gardai, if they don't they ranting, slandering people and/or advocating violence against them or their property on the internet is not the way to go.

I'm surprised at you 7upfree, you have complained countless times about "unethical" behavior of people in goverment/goverment party's over the years but yet you appear to be happy for people to just ignore the laws of this land and do what "they believe is right" to get "justice".
You expect politicians to keep within the law yet you appear fine with Joe Soap on the street doing what they want when it comes to the law.

No. If you read my post again you will see - clearly - that I cautioned that people want the authorities to do something. And now.

No amount of "talking" or "reasoned debate" will solve this.

Substantial action is required by the authorities. Now.

If they were doing their job pages like that one wouldn't even exist.

Also - how do you proposed "reasoned debate" with five scumbags who kicked in that young musician's head at Closegate? And who seem to think that this is normal behaviour - particularly in their land of origin.

And as for politicians keeping within the law? Lol! They may stay within the laws of the land - but the majority are morally corrupt.

Fate Amenable To Change

BuffyBot wrote: »

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

And if you knew someone who was attacked would you disbelieve them/accuse them of spouting "ill informed crud"?

cookie.monster

BuffyBot wrote: »

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

so hold on now if these thugs were to set upon you would you say "hey lets have a reasoned debate here" think not my friend, the only thing they know is violence and in turn have to be met with the same resistance back or your up ****e creek without a paddle, so yes educating people with you to watch out for is the way to go, i know who they are and what there about but there is still people out there that don't perfect example is that poor musician that got the ****e kicked outta him, i'm sure if he was educated about these thugs then it may not have happened???

The Bowling Alley

Cabaal wrote: »

So you think mob mentality over reasoned, logical debate is better?


You also think mob mentality should replace our legal/policing system?


Last time I checked we have a legal system, its not Joe Soaps job on the street to decide if somebody is guilty of a crime. Thats the job of our legal system.

If somebody has evidence of other people committing a crime then present it to the Gardai, if they don't they ranting, slandering people and/or advocating violence against them or their property on the internet is not the way to go.

I'm surprised at you 7upfree, you have complained countless times about "unethical" behavior of people in goverment/goverment party's over the years but yet you appear to be happy for people to just ignore the laws of this land and do what "they believe is right" to get "justice".
You expect politicians to keep within the law yet you appear fine with Joe Soap on the street doing what they want when it comes to the law.

All of this is true, in theory.

I'm not advocating mob mentality, but what is needed is a review of our justice system and more gardai on the street.

Court cases are constantly adjourned meaning criminals are constantly being released so they can commit more crimes and the solicitors can have more days in court and more tax payer's money in their bank accounts.

I read in the paper recently, not sure if it was a local or a national, that one of the roma gypsies was fined €750 for robbing a phone. Where do we think they can come up with that money? By robbing it. Or more likely, they won't pay it and will just spend a day or so in jail.

As for the guards...a bar man told me recently that someone attacked him with a knife in the pub - they rang the guards and they said they wouldn't have someone down for a couple of hours. Meanwhile the fella that attacked him was still in the pub.

People have a good reason to be worried about the justice system in this country, and even more reason to be worried about the fact that the Gardai are not up to much at the moment.

obezyana

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

All of this is true, in theory.

I'm not advocating mob mentality, but what is needed is a review of our justice system and more gardai on the street.

Court cases are constantly adjourned meaning criminals are constantly being released so they can commit more crimes and the solicitors can have more days in court and more tax payer's money in their bank accounts.

I read in the paper recently, not sure if it was a local or a national, that one of the roma gypsies was fined €750 for robbing a phone. Where do we think they can come up with that money? By robbing it. Or more likely, they won't pay it and will just spend a day or so in jail.

As for the guards...a bar man told me recently that someone attacked him with a knife in the pub - they rang the guards and they said they wouldn't have someone down for a couple of hours. Meanwhile the fella that attacked him was still in the pub.

People have a good reason to be worried about the justice system in this country, and even more reason to be worried about the fact that the Gardai are not up to much at the moment.

Ah now give em some credit they are busy doing L drivers and people who avoid paying the extortionate motor tax rates

Fate Amenable To Change

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

I'm not advocating mob mentality, but what is needed is a review of our justice system and more gardai on the street.

Court cases are constantly adjourned meaning criminals are constantly being released so they can commit more crimes and the solicitors can have more days in court and more tax payer's money in their bank accounts.

This is it, I wouldn't blame the Gardai as a group. They are seriously understaffed due to cutbacks and recruitment freezes. Whoever is making decisions seem to decide that minor misdemeanors are the problem. When they out a case together against someone its a suspended sentence . Just last week someone who ahd a suspended sentence for assault got caught red-handed with 18k worth of drugs and was lef toff with a wanring... this was a massive operation taking up loads of Garda hours.

Potential-Monke

I sometimes feel like i'm repeating myself with these threads...

Most people know who this gang are, and while it is admirable to set up these pages to inform others, it walks a very fine line with regards to the legality of it. It would be great if everyone who commits a crime could be named and shamed, and that can be done but only if that person has been convicted of the crime. Until convicted, in this country, a person is presumed innocent. Otherwise there is nothing stopping anyone from accusing anyone else of being a criminal. So in order to name and shame someone on these pages, pictures should be accompanied by court outcomes/media reports of the person being convicted of a specific crime, and not just put up stating that this person is involved in x, y or z without legal proof.

Then we have people who report crimes to the Gardaí, but are not willing to make a statement and go to court. 99% of cases require the injured party to make a statement and be willing to go to court to testify against the accused. People don't realise that, or are unwilling to do that because of whatever reason. You could say that CCTV would show it, and it would if caught on CCTV, but it's not possible to get a conviction, even with CCTV, unless there's an injured party willing to testify.

And those that are willing can also be left frustrated because there may not be enough evidence to get a prosecution. It's extremely hard to get a successful prosecution these days, even with CCTV evidence. The laws are on the side of the criminals, and even the best Garda can be caught out by a loophole which may never have come to light before. The Gardaí are struggling with fewer numbers and an increased workload with little to no time to follow up. It's not like TV where they go to one call and spend a week dealing with it. They could have to attend 15+ calls in their shift, and that's repeated every day.

Then you have the judiciary who obviously live in a completely different world to everyone else, because nothing else can explain the sentences they give out. The most recent example is this, where a man with 71 previous convictions was caught throwing rocks, bottles and bins on fire at Gardaí during the Queens visit, and the judge gives him a suspended 2 1/2 year sentence!

As for the people on about L-Drivers and other non-serious crime, thats part and parcel of the job. There's a traffic corp whose sole function is road traffic related crime. That's why people are being done for minor offences, because that is the traffic corps job. I'll never understand why people can't accept that. You could say that these members should be redeployed back to the regular units to investigate "more serious" crimes, but then the roads in Ireland would be some of the most dangerous to drive on, because people will know that there's no traffic corp to stop them driving dangerously, or breaking any of the other numerous road traffic legislation.

And they're not collecting for the government. It wouldn't bother a Garda if someone who broke a red light got a fine or an appearance in court. The fines are there to stop people having convictions, and to free up Garda and court time. I'm also pretty sure that most people would prefer an €80 fine over having to potentially take a day off work to appear in court and face a higher fine or their licence taken away.

Deise67

Then you have the judiciary who obviously live in a completely different world to everyone else, because nothing else can explain the sentences they give out. The most recent example is this, where a man with 71 previous convictions was caught throwing rocks, bottles and bins on fire at Gardaí during the Queens visit, and the judge gives him a suspended 2 1/2 year sentence!

have to say agree wholeheartly with this comment , was called for jury duty a few months back , what an eye opener ! 100 plus people called , all taking time off work some paid some not (self-employed) three cases all thrown out by the judge ! must be soul destroying to be a guard !

obezyana

Potential-Monke wrote: »

As for the people on about L-Drivers and other non-serious crime

I was only mentioning L drivers and Tax in jest I didn't mean to offend any serving Garda that may have seen my comment. :pac:

sparkling sea

I have now heard of at least different gangs operating in the area.

The everybody knows who this gang is arguement is no longer standing up, because some people think its one gang (that everyone knows) and othe people think its another group (and everyon knows its them too).

I doubt these anti crime pages are of any positive use at all and might even cause cases to collapse, they could easily be seen to interfer with the right to a fair trial. If everybody already sees the accused as guilty because of this type of publicity and naming, the presumption of innocence is gone out the window and with it the right to a fair trial, any solicitor worth their salt will argue this.

Potential-Monke

obezyana wrote: »

I was only mentioning L drivers and Tax in jest I didn't mean to offend any serving Garda that may have seen my comment. :pac:

(Slightly off topic) Wasn't directed at you, just saw L-Drivers mentioned and took it for granted it was another jibe at the Gardaí. I try my best to ignore the comments these days. The anti-Garda brigade are spreading, and between them (and more recently blaming the Gardaí for the Irish Water situation) and the lack of support the Government gives them, it's no surprise if some members of the force no longer have an interest in the job.

This is another prime example of why a Garda may have completely lost interest. They break their balls doing what they can, and when set upon by the criminals they deal with, when off duty, and end up with permanent damage from an attack off-duty on a night out, an attack which was directed at them because they were Gardaí, and the Judge lets the attackers walk free. I don't know of anyone who woulnd't let something like that affect them. So if you see Gardaí not being bothered anymore, there's probably a good reason, that being that even if they act within the law, they can still be held accountable, and no one is supporting them.

sparkling sea

Potential-Monke wrote: »

(Slightly off topic) The anti-Garda brigade are spreading, and between them (and more recently blaming the Gardaí for the Irish Water situation) and the lack of support the Government gives them, it's no surprise if some members of the force no longer have an interest in the job.

They break their balls doing what they can, and when set upon by the criminals they deal with, when off duty, and end up with permanent damage from an attack off-duty on a night out, an attack which was directed at them because they were Gardaí, and the Judge lets the attackers walk free. I don't know of anyone who woulnd't let something like that affect them. So if you see Gardaí not being bothered anymore, there's probably a good reason, that being that even if they act within the law, they can still be held accountable, and no one is supporting them.

Gardai swear a oath to up hold the law and get well paid for doing this. They are not the same as an ordinary members of the public, they are not victims per se even when attacked, they are people getting paid to do a job. There may have been cases when Gardai are attacked and unfortunately they do not receive the justice they deserve, but no stone will go unturned in trying to prove the accused is guilty is these cases. The same standard is not applied when dealing with many civilian victims.

Further more, GSOC recevie a plethora of complaints about the same Gardai in every county, but because the Gardai are in the main investigating themselves, very few of the actual victims of Gardai abuse get the justice they deserve - the dark figure of crime in relation to Garda abuse, is just not recorded here in Ireland.

At the end of the day being a Garda is a job and just like in any other job, if disinterest negates your ability to preform then you should go through the proper disciplinary proceedings and then if the disinterest remains and there isn't health reasons for it, they should be dismissed. Dismissals rarely happen in the Gardai because the Gardai ususally look after each other. Its disappointing that people make excuses for under preformace and bad practive in the Gardai, however its an historical attitude among alot of people and thats why we don't see the changes that would benefit us all

TheNog

sparkling sea wrote: »

Gardai swear a oath to up hold the law and get well paid for doing this. They are not the same as an ordinary members of the public, they are not victims per se even when attacked, they are people getting paid to do a job. There may have been cases when Gardai are attacked and unfortunately they do not receive the justice they deserve, but no stone will go unturned in trying to prove the accused is guilty is these cases.

I'm sorry but that's bull****. Assault against any person is still assault no matter what the job they are doing.

sparkling sea wrote: »

The same standard is not applied when dealing with many civilian victims.

That is simply because usually when a Garda is assaulted he/she is accompanied by other Gardai who make good witnesses. If a member of the public is assaulted it is difficult to find witnesses or even for witnesses to come forward and make statements.

sparkling sea wrote: »

Further more, GSOC recevie a plethora of complaints about the same Gardai in every county, but because the Gardai are in the main investigating themselves, very few of the actual victims of Gardai abuse get the justice they deserve - the dark figure of crime in relation to Garda abuse, is just not recorded here in Ireland.

Just over 2,000 complaints against 13,000 Garda members is hardly a plethora. According to the GSOC report published in March this year almost 6,000 allegations were made. Almost 4,000 of those allegations were inadmissible, no further investigation or deemed not in breach of regulations.

sparkling sea wrote: »

At the end of the day being a Garda is a job and just like in any other job, if disinterest negates your ability to preform then you should go through the proper disciplinary proceedings and then if the disinterest remains and there isn't health reasons for it, they should be dismissed.

Alot of it can be more psychological rather than disinterest. Same as all other ES personnel we see alot of very disturbing things.

sparkling sea wrote: »

Dismissals rarely happen in the Gardai because the Gardai ususally look after each other. Its disappointing that people make excuses for under preformace and bad practive in the Gardai, however its an historical attitude among alot of people and thats why we don't see the changes that would benefit us all

If you could see what we see on the other side of the fence you might change your opinion. Many other Garda members will tell you straight out internal investigations are sometimes likened to witch hunts. I have seen it myself against another Garda member and it sickened me tbh. Just to point out I had met this Garda member only once and did not know him at all.

Potential-Monke

sparkling sea wrote: »

They are not the same as an ordinary members of the public, they are not victims per se even when attacked, they are people getting paid to do a job.

The Nog answered everything above, but i just had to pick this part out. This sentence implies that it's ok to attack a Garda. Are you serious? Are you saying that a Garda should be expected to be assaulted when trying to uphold the law? Are you saying that assaults on members holds less importance? Yes, they're getting paid to do a job (because, lets be honest, the majority of people wouldn't even dream of doing it), but you think that's a good enough reason for them to expect to get assaulted? It's attitudes like this that leads to the situation i described above. Why would a member bother putting him or herself in dangers way when the public believe that getting assaulted is acceptable?

The Government, Judiciary and Laws in this country have made the Gardaí the way they are today. What employee would still give 110% knowing that, if everything doesn't work out perfectly, there's a witch hunt and no support? The Gardaí are still doing their jobs, in increasingly difficult times, with less members, less support, no back-up and increased crime (regardless of the media spin). There are things I could tell you, but i'd end up in jail for telling them, because the powers that be don't want them told.

There are two sides to every story, and unfortunately the Garda side is gagged and muted, the public believe every article they read, most of which only tell one side. The Government doesn't protect them, GSOC are still trying to prove a point and don't care who they sh!t on to do it. And now, pages like this are making the job harder because any solicitor worth their salt are keeping an eye on these pages and using it to get unfair trials and get their clients off. That is why these pages do more damage than good. That is why these pages should not put up anything without proof. And that is why Gardaí may have lost interest, and why they may be doing just enough to stay out of trouble and within the law. The days of a proactive force is gone, and the reactive force is barely holding on. Want reform? Then it needs to come from the top down, not the ground up, where the vast majority of the 10,000 on the street members are good and honest people.

sparkling sea

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The Nog answered everything above, but i just had to pick this part out. This sentence implies that it's ok to attack a Garda. Are you serious? Are you saying that a Garda should be expected to be assaulted when trying to uphold the law? Are you saying that assaults on members holds less importance? Yes, they're getting paid to do a job (because, lets be honest, the majority of people wouldn't even dream of doing it), but you think that's a good enough reason for them to expect to get assaulted? It's attitudes like this that leads to the situation i described above. Why would a member bother putting him or herself in dangers way when the public believe that getting assaulted is acceptable?

The Government, Judiciary and Laws in this country have made the Gardaí the way they are today. What employee would still give 110% knowing that, if everything doesn't work out perfectly, there's a witch hunt and no support? The Gardaí are still doing their jobs, in increasingly difficult times, with less members, less support, no back-up and increased crime (regardless of the media spin). There are things I could tell you, but i'd end up in jail for telling them, because the powers that be don't want them told.

There are two sides to every story, and unfortunately the Garda side is gagged and muted, the public believe every article they read, most of which only tell one side. The Government doesn't protect them, GSOC are still trying to prove a point and don't care who they sh!t on to do it. And now, pages like this are making the job harder because any solicitor worth their salt are keeping an eye on these pages and using it to get unfair trials and get their clients off. That is why these pages do more damage than good. That is why these pages should not put up anything without proof. And that is why Gardaí may have lost interest, and why they may be doing just enough to stay out of trouble and within the law. The days of a proactive force is gone, and the reactive force is barely holding on. Want reform? Then it needs to come from the top down, not the ground up, where the vast majority of the 10,000 on the street members are good and honest people.

Point out that a certainty of being attacked implies that it is ok for someone to attack is a huge leap and an odd conslucion to draw.

I complete agree that the vast majority of Gardai have good intentions however as was pointed out in the Morris Tribunal, there is a very high likelhood that problems exist in every Gardai station The Garda force were found to be corrupt in the 1970's, 1990's, the 2000's and again now and there is nothing to suggest that anything has changed

While I think its completely wrong for any person to be attacked by another, it is hardly surprising that some Gardai are attacked but nowhere have I said it is acceptable, it is however part of the job.

The Gardai investigating themselves and sweeping aside 4000 GSOC complaints is hardly surprising, but as I previously pointed out, most people in Waterford will know or know of someone who was assualted by a Gardai The Holland case and the amount of men I have heard of, who had complained to GSOC about the now imprisioned Garda only goes to show, the Garda connot ivestigate themselves at any level; its also show that a culture of turning a blind eye to bad eyes also exists and this is a bad reflection on all Gardai.

At fact that little appears to have changed since the Morris Tribunal is the greatest problem facing the Gardai, the Blue Wall of Silence still exists and some people would well to remeber the following summary of the findings "Many gardaí lied to the Tribunal and built up a “blue wall of silence”, refusing to give evidence against one another. This element of garda subculture was succinctly portrayed to the Tribunal by one garda who stated that “You don’t hang your own” (p.91). Perhaps one of the most worrying suggestions from Justice Morris in the course of the Tribunal was that there were no particular factors at play which might mean that the events which occurred in Donegal were specific to that district alone:
“Of the Gardaí serving in Donegal it cannot be said that they are unrepresentative or an aberration from the generality. All of them were trained as Gardaí and served under a uniform structure of administration and discipline that is standardised.” (Fifth Report, para.6.02, quoted at p.90)

None of this takes away from the fact that there are some exceptional good Gardai but this despite of the internal culture and not because of it IMO.

TheNog

sparkling sea wrote: »

I complete agree that the vast majority of Gardai have good intentions however as was pointed out in the Morris Tribunal, there is a very high likelhood that problems exist in every Gardai station The Garda force were found to be corrupt in the 1970's, 1990's, the 2000's and again now and there is nothing to suggest that anything has changed

There is always going to be corruption at all levels of very facet of life, no exceptions. The problem is how to deal with the situation and prevent it from happening again. Will AGS ever get rid of all corruption within its ranks? No. Granted on occasion AGS has not shown itself in perfect light.

The Gardai investigating themselves and sweeping aside 4000 GSOC complaints is hardly surprising,

Hold on a minute that is a fairly serious statement to make. Have you any links to support this or is it just your opinion?

but as I previously pointed out, most people in Waterford will know or know of someone who was assualted by a Gardai The Holland case and the amount of men I have heard of, who had complained to GSOC about the now imprisioned Garda only goes to show, the Garda connot ivestigate themselves at any level; its also show that a culture of turning a blind eye to bad eyes also exists and this is a bad reflection on all Gardai.

Since GSOC was set up AGS and the GRA have been saying GSOC should be doing all investigations. There is however no political foresight for this to happen and now there is no money to increase the GSOC budget.

At fact that little appears to have changed since the Morris Tribunal is the greatest problem facing the Gardai, the Blue Wall of Silence still exists and some people would well to remeber the following summary of the findings "Many gardaí lied to the Tribunal and built up a “blue wall of silence”, refusing to give evidence against one another. This element of garda subculture was succinctly portrayed to the Tribunal by one garda who stated that “You don’t hang your own” (p.91). Perhaps one of the most worrying suggestions from Justice Morris in the course of the Tribunal was that there were no particular factors at play which might mean that the events which occurred in Donegal were specific to that district alone:
“Of the Gardaí serving in Donegal it cannot be said that they are unrepresentative or an aberration from the generality. All of them were trained as Gardaí and served under a uniform structure of administration and discipline that is standardised.” (Fifth Report, para.6.02, quoted at p.90)

The job has changed significantly since these incidents of the 1990's and the subsequent tribunal from 2002 - 2008. Everything a Garda member on the street does is now under close scrutiny from all angles be it management or the public. Look at the latest Irish Water disturbances on Youtube.

Is it a good thing though? Accountability is a good thing. It creates a hell of a lot of paperwork but it is good. If you have nothing to hide then no need to be worried.

None of this takes away from the fact that there are some exceptional good Gardai but this despite of the internal culture and not because of it IMO.

It is not ' there are some exceptional good Gardai' rather there are many exceptional Gardai. It is just that people remember the one bad encounter over 2-3 good encounters. Fact of life.

Fate Amenable To Change

TheNog wrote: »

It is not ' there are some exceptional good Gardai' rather there are many exceptional Gardai. It is just that people remember the one bad encounter over 2-3 good encounters. Fact of life.

One out of 3 would be shocking in my opinion. Gardai do good work and I know they're hassled. Wish there would be more numbers put on the street to actually deal with the crimes.

I remember a few years ago on a Saturday night there would be more than a few gardai outside the nightclubs in case of trouble... only very rarely do I see even a couple now.

If you asked me I'd give the majority of Guards trained Guard dogs. Well trained and able to subdue someone very quickly without the extremes of a gun. I can't see someone throwing chips at a Guard with a trained dog. At least no Guard would be left alone in very troubling positions. Expensive but it would definitely be worth it.

Chip Whitley

Just passed a large crowd of people down on Manor St, chanting and a few people running toward the scene. Guards are out down there too. I thought of this thread straight away, anyone know what's going on? It was causing trafific delays whatever it was.

MitchKoobski

They're all gathered outside someones house chanting "OUT OUT OUT". Thats all I can grasp from it anyway. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=837447799634241

cookie.monster

tis the roma gypsie house

Shellakybooky

More scum in that video then there probably is in that house

jebus84

Why aren't they protesting outside Gregory Hennessy house?

reni10

And now the Guards are protecting them it seems but they are never around when someone is being beaten up or robbed by them!

This is what happens when no action is taken by the Guards, people will only take so much!

Fate Amenable To Change

reni10 wrote: »

And now the Guards are protecting them it seems but they are never around when someone is being beaten up or robbed by them!

This is what happens when no action is taken by the Guards, people will only take so much!

The Guards can't pick or choose who to protect, its a slippery slope and would lead to anarchy very quickly. If there isn't a Guard on duty then its not the ones on the ground that are to blame. Not saying they're all perfect, they most definitely are not, but thats a comment that doesn't help anyone or anything.

Shellakybooky

reni10 wrote: »

And now the Guards are protecting them it seems but they are never around when someone is being beaten up or robbed by them!

This is what happens when no action is taken by the Guards, people will only take so much!

Ah the mob look great don't they? Leave them at it, never mind any children in the house. Burn the place down yeah. Beat them and kill them off sure while you are at it. Go for it reni10

reni10

So what other options are there when they continue to rob and beat people and it is reported to the Guards every time and nothing happens?

I suppose you Shellakybooky would prefer another beating tonight for an innocent person walking along there than something to be done about it?
It would be nice to live in your world...

deise08

Had to drive past there a few mins ago. I only hope it doesn't turn nasty!