Autistic child damaged car

Wyldwood

I don't know if this is the right place for this question so mods please move if not.

Our next door neighbour is a separated mother of a 14 year old autistic boy. He is allowed to wander at will around the park. He can be a nuisance and tries to open windows and doors to come in and stands outside windows looking in (he terrifies my 2 year old grandchild).
However, he has now started to be destructive. He started by pulling up other neighbours plants and will take thing out of gardens or cars if left open. Garden boundaries mean nothing to him.
Today, while in the care of a minder, he came into my garden and threw a big stone at my son's car, which was parked in the driveway, and did some damage. It's not a huge amount, possibly about €150. There's a couple of dents in the driver's door.

I haven't approached his mother yet as I'm reluctant to add more trouble to her, I know he is not easy to handle but he is not properly under control while outside. My son is very annoyed as he is very careful of his car and can't really afford to pay for the repairs.

I'm wondering what the legal situation with regard to this child is, I know he's not mentally capable of realising the damage done but who should be held responsible for paying? Or am I being petty and should I just pay for the damage and let it go under the circumstamces?

whomitconcerns

go to the mother...simple as that. 150 or 1500 wouldnt matter to me. Your certain it was him?

ABC101

I think you need to inform the mother at least.

With respect, I think you are making a number of assumptions. The cost of the repairs being one, I don't know much about bodywork repairs, but they can be expensive, especially paintwork.

The second assumption being " maybe the worst is over". How do you know? I mean as the boy gets bigger and stronger your property may be subjected to more serious damage next year? This incident might just be the start, hopefully not.

I do have sympathy for your situation, and the boy sounds a fairly serious condition of autism. Seems he should never be left unsupervised, either inside or outside the home. That is tough on de mother too.

If I was in that situation, I think it would be best to approach the mother for a friendly chat, explain to her the incident, your concerns for the possibility of more damage in the future, and is there anything which can be done to keep the boy from destructive behaviour, can he be distracted in any way?

The mother has to recognise her limitations as well, she can' t be there all the time and if her son has meltdown he is starting to get bigger and stronger than herself. I hope she is getting all the help she can from the medical authorities to try and keep the boy on the right track.

But getting assistance is hard, given resources are so scarce.

You could decide to let the cost of damage go for the first time, however if more serious damage occurs, then you may have no choice but to ask the mother for costs.

Given the age / mental condition of the boy, I would imagine the parent is responsible for the actions of their child, and not the child itself.

seamus

Contact social services.

The child is clearly a danger to himself and others and the mother clearly requires assistance in providing the best care for him. She may not be aware of this or she may be having trouble coping, but either way the DSS can help her.

Will you be concerned about adding to her trouble after he throws a stone through your window while your grandchild is inside.

Tip-toe around this now and something more serious will happen. The child should not unsupervised outside, for his safety and the safety of others. Alert the relevant bodies to the mother's need for assistance.

Tasden

seamus wrote: »

Contact social services.

The child is clearly a danger to himself and others and the mother clearly requires assistance in providing the best care for him. She may not be aware of this or she may be having trouble coping, but either way the DSS can help her.

Yeah this is what I was going to advise. He cant be let wander like that unsupervised.

Milly33

Jes I wouldn't be going calling social services over something like that think that may be jumping the gun a little. I would however most defiantly approach the mother and tell her what happened and also what is happening. Just because the kid is Autistic does not mean he can behave badly or act like this. He can still be thought right from wrong. Call into the mother tell her what happened and that the damage was done, tell her also about what happens when he is with the minder and show her. Then go from there, if the mum is being unreasonable then go another route

doolox

Also your son should report this damage to his insurance so that they can follow up with rectifying the damage if he is comprehensively insured.

The Guards may be able to form a bigger picture of the boys destructive actions if everyone in the neighbourhood filed complaints of damage done to their property. The problem is proving who did it and it may be likely that other more nefarious individuals could engage in a bit of vandalism safe in the knowledge that all acts of vandalism will be laid squarely on this lads shoulders.

A public order issue could ensue if some hothead takes exception to his actions not realising his condition.

I have mild autism myself and was only diagnosed as such in my early 50's and was bullied and "punished" frequently at school and ostracised by some people at work because of my behaviours, inability to stay cool in stressful situations obsessive checking of things etc. It is mild in comparison to this lads behaviou but he needs to be supervised, educated and counselled in a very individual and special way by trained professionals. This won't be easy or readily available in our cash strapped failed little nation state.

Doing nothing will only lead him into trouble with other unknowing people. In the long term you and other neighbours will be doing him and his mother a favour by challenging and reporting and not putting up with challenging and illegal behaviour.

Kennedy123

I agree don't tell social services. I would say the mother would appreciate you telling her now rather than the boy doing damage to others and before you know the while street is talking about her and the boy. it would be embarrassing for her.
if you tell her now she can stop that behaviour now before it gets out of control. the poor mother is probably struggling as she has to deal with the boys behaviour by herself. the effects a separation can have on a child. she might like a nice chat with a friendly neighbor.

Tasden

Milly33 wrote: »

Jes I wouldn't be going calling social services over something like that think that may be jumping the gun a little. I would however most defiantly approach the mother and tell her what happened and also what is happening. Just because the kid is Autistic does not mean he can behave badly or act like this. He can still be thought right from wrong. Call into the mother tell her what happened and that the damage was done, tell her also about what happens when he is with the minder and show her. Then go from there, if the mum is being unreasonable then go another route

If the mother isn't aware of the fact he is causing damage out on the road, looking in peoples windows, taking peoples property, opening windows and doors etc then she's not supervising him appropriately. If it isn't reported and one day he wanders into a house of someone who isn't as understanding or whatever the family could end up in a lot more trouble than having a call from a hse professional making sure she can cope. Social services don't waltz in and take kids from their parents as a result of one phone call, its their duty to check the child is being adequately cared for which (for whatever the reason may be) he evidently isn't if the mother is unaware of the trouble he is causing and situations he's putting himself in. That would be my take on it anyway.

Although like you suggest, I suppose a chat with her may make her more aware and then maybe only contact social services if she doesn't seem to deal with the situation once its brought up.

Little CuChulainn

Milly33 wrote: »

Jes I wouldn't be going calling social services over something like that think that may be jumping the gun a little.

No point waiting til he hurts someone.

seamus

The reason I suggested going directly to social services rather than a friendly chit-chat is based on the OP, which indicates that it's pretty much beyond the point where the mother needs to have something brought to her attention. If I were to speculate, she's just completely overwhelmed trying to deal with a growing boy with emotional and developmental difficulties, and she's just given up on fighting the battles and so lets him wander.

Granted there's scant information in the OP, but I don't believe that talking to the mother can accomplish anything beyond either getting some vague promises and sob stories from her and/or raising tensions between her and the neighbours. She'll make promises to change things, and in the following weeks little will change, and the son will end up either injuring someone accidentally, or finding himself attacked by someone who doesn't realise that he has difficulties.

She needs professional assistance, not more pressure and worry that her neighbours now hate her and her son.

plodder

Calling social services first could poison any co-operation with the neighbour and is far from guaranteed to produce a useful intervention anyway. I'd talk to the mother first, and maybe, explore ways you could help her, in some small way. There might not be any, but it's worth thinking about. If the mother has the wrong/bad attitude after talking, that's when I'd go to social services.

Tasden

plodder wrote: »

Calling social services first could poison any co-operation with the neighbour and is far from guaranteed to produce a useful intervention anyway. I'd talk to the mother first, and maybe, explore ways you could help her, in some small way. There might not be any, but it's worth thinking about. If the mother has the wrong/bad attitude after talking, that's when I'd go to social services.

Calling social services means the neighbour needn't get involved or mentioned by name unless they broach the issue of the damage to their car. Speaking with the mother first would be more likely to cause those kind of issues if social services are then called and she takes issue with that because she'll know who called them

Kennedy123

talk to mother and if that doesn't work contact social services.

Grolschevik

Wyldwood wrote: »

Today, while in the care of a minder, he came into my garden and threw a big stone at my son's car, which was parked in the driveway, and did some damage.

What was the minder doing while this was happening?

You probably don't know the answer to the following, but they might be worth considering:

• Do you think the minder might have mentioned this incident to the mother?
• Is the minder some sort of social-service-provided minder, or a relative?

Nanazolie

My 2 cents as the mother of a 5 years old autistic boy: I would hate if someone called social services on me. My son has destructive impulsions, but if you didn't know us and caught him in the act you would be thinking that we don't do anything about it. yet.....
.... he is in therapy 5 days a week

Having said that, if my son damaged my neighbours property, there would be serious consequences for him, and he knows it. I like being told when he has done something wrong as I need to take action and make sure he understands and be disciplined otherwise he will do it again (or worse). Having autism is not an excuse for doing what you want. You would do the mum a great disservice by not telling her. I would definitively approach her saying that you know how difficult it is for her (believe me, we crave people's understanding) but that her son has damaged your property and you fear that it will escalate (do no imply a threat of calling the gardai unless the mum dismisses it). She will certainly be upset, if, like me, she feels responsible for her son's action. But in the long run, it's better for everyone

Little CuChulainn

Social Services are not there to take kids away from bad parents. That's just one part of their job. They are also there to help parents who are having difficulty access facilities and professionals.

Nanazolie

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Social Services are not there to take kids away from bad parents. That's just one part of their job. They are also there to help parents who are having difficulty access facilities and professionals.

When my child started getting so violent towards he peers that we had to find support, the HSE, while very nice on the phone, were not helpful at all. I was just told that there was no support available but 'rest assured that your son is on the waiting list'. I felt sorry for the lovely man at the end of the phone, because he was certainly as frustrated as I was.

What might help, though, is if the mum sends a file explaining that the neighbours (with statements from said neighbours) have complained. It might speed things up. But let her do it, don't bring it on her

Greenmachine

Go straight to the police. If she doesn't get back to you, go knocking on her door daily until she pays you for the damage. She is clearly not taking care of him.

Nanazolie

Greenmachine wrote: »

Go straight to the police. If she doesn't get back to you, go knocking on her door daily until she pays you for the damage. She is clearly not taking care of him.

How do you know that?

Greenmachine

Nanazolie wrote: »

How do you know that?

He is being let roam the streets unsupervised, being a public menace.

Grolschevik

Greenmachine wrote: »

He is being let roam the streets unsupervised, being a public menace.

Not necessarily.

Wyldwood wrote: »

Today, while in the care of a minder, he came into my garden and threw a big stone at my son's car,

Grolschevik wrote: »

What was the minder doing while this was happening?

You probably don't know the answer to the following, but they might be worth considering:

• Do you think the minder might have mentioned this incident to the mother?
• Is the minder some sort of social-service-provided minder, or a relative?

MarkR

A lot of kids roam the street, and a lot of them are considered menaces (at least by some people). The attitude of some on this thread make me sick. Keep the kids with autism away from the rest of us, they might kick off? Treat it as it as, an isolated incident. Speak to the parent first, they are responsible for the damage. Same as with any other minor. Social services is completely OTT. Autism doesn't mean he's out of control.

the_syco

Get a quote for the damage, and notify the mother of it. The softly softly approach may mean that this is the first time she has been notified of any wrong doings by her son.

Wyldwood wrote: »

Today, while in the care of a minder, he came into my garden and threw a big stone at my son's car, which was parked in the driveway, and did some damage. It's not a huge amount, possibly about €150. There's a couple of dents in the driver's door.

The minder will probably be liable for costs, as they were in charge of the kid.

Tasden

MarkR wrote: »

A lot of kids roam the street, and a lot of them are considered menaces (at least by some people). The attitude of some on this thread make me sick. Keep the kids with autism away from the rest of us, they might kick off? Treat it as it as, an isolated incident. Speak to the parent first, they are responsible for the damage. Same as with any other minor. Social services is completely OTT. Autism doesn't mean he's out of control.

But it wasn't an isolated incident. The op explained that the behaviour has been getting worse. And if it is as a result of the child's autism then it may require a different approach than the one the mother is currently adopting. And I'm saying this as someone who has a family member at the the severe end of the spectrum who requires additional supervision and care as a result and who i don't deem to be a menace to society.

Sclosages

Are autistic children not capable of knowing right from wrong?

Tasden

Sclosages wrote: »

Are autistic children not capable of knowing right from wrong?

Autism is one of those things that can vary drastically from one person to the next. From just seeming a little "off" socially, to being completely mute and being entirely dependent on carers their whole life, and everything else in between, so it really depends on the person.

Wellactually

Personally I wouldn't treat him any different to another child doing it at the moment, I`d go to the mother and tell her what happened and the damage he done, depending on outcome then id decide to go further, or not.

If it continued or happened again, then id report it further as she obviously couldn`t control him and is a mence, but Id definitely give her the option of dealing with it first.

Little CuChulainn

Nanazolie wrote: »

When my child started getting so violent towards he peers that we had to find support, the HSE, while very nice on the phone, were not helpful at all. I was just told that there was no support available but 'rest assured that your son is on the waiting list'. I felt sorry for the lovely man at the end of the phone, because he was certainly as frustrated as I was.

What might help, though, is if the mum sends a file explaining that the neighbours (with statements from said neighbours) have complained. It might speed things up. But let her do it, don't bring it on her

The problem is that you went when it was too much for you and started at the bottom of the list. If you go to them when the issues start it is much more beneficial.

NormalBob Ubiquitypants

I actually laughed at the social services suggestion.
"Hello, understaffed, under funded and highly stressed social services. How may I help you?".
"My neighbour's teenager threw a stone at my son's car when his parents were out. The minder wasn't doing her job. Can I have some services and an immediate response please?".

As for the gardai suggestion, it would be more than a little ridiculous. If the teenager is as bad as it seems with autism, the last thing he needs is a couple of burly officers at the door talking about criminal damage.

OP you are best speaking to the mother of the child. Go to the mother, take photos if necessary but please remember that not every matter is a legal matter. I am sure they will be happy to take care of it, as well as being aware that the minder is not doing his/her job.

MarkR

Tasden wrote: »

But it wasn't an isolated incident. The op explained that the behaviour has been getting worse. And if it is as a result of the child's autism then it may require a different approach than the one the mother is currently adopting. And I'm saying this as someone who has a family member at the the severe end of the spectrum who requires additional supervision and care as a result and who i don't deem to be a menace to society.

The clue is in the name. Spectrum. It varies hugely. This should be treated the same as with any other kid who isn't respecting boundaries, or who has caused damage. Get off the internet, and speak to the parents. And I'm saying this as a parent of a child on the spectrum. I can't believe this even came into Legal Discussion. The child is still a child, there isn't any special laws in regard to them.

RainyDay

seamus wrote: »

Contact social services.

The child is clearly a danger to himself and others and the mother clearly requires assistance in providing the best care for him. She may not be aware of this or she may be having trouble coping, but either way the DSS can help her.

DSS is a UK body, and doesn't exist here. The nearest equivalent in this context is the recently formed Child and Family Agency.

Regardless, you may have missed 5-10 years of parents of children with disabilities, particularly children with autism screaming, begging, protesting and crying for additional supports. A report to the Child and Family Agency does not magically produce extra resources.

Wyldwood

Thank you for all the replies.

I intend to go and speak to my neighbour today when my son comes home and his car is here if she wants to see it. I won't call social services or the gardaí, that's not a runner.

I can't give too much background information as this could make the family identifiable but suffice it to say that the child's father is a local medical professional and the family are getting plenty of support. He is in a special school every morning and goes for respite care regularly.

His mother works and has a minder for him in the afternoons. I don't know what her qualifications are. Once he comes home from school he wanders at will, sometimes barefoot and scantily clad, which makes me think he escapes rather than being left out. I have taken him home on a number of occasions when he was chasing the bin lorry or the ride-on mower cutting the green and his mother would say she didn't know he was out. He also has a habit of running out to any car that is coming or going and all the neighbours are afraid he is going to be hurt by one of us as he is fearless.

They are aware of the nuisance he is to neighbours - he actually physically attacked a neighbour who found him upstairs in his house - but doesn't seem to care. I stay on good terms with her as I have great pity for her situation. He has done serious damage to his own house which involved them having to move out for a number of months while it was being repaired.

I realise it has to be brought to her attention in the hope of preventing further problems so I'll approach it in the nicest possible way but at the end of the day the damage to the car, although small (the drivers door will need repair and respray) will have to be paid for by someone.

Wyldwood

MarkR I do apologise if this is not a legal discussion. I just wanted to know where I stood with regard to responsibility with a disturbed child. It's not a situation I'm familiar with.

secondrowgal

Best of luck Wyldwood!

Tasden

MarkR wrote: »

The clue is in the name. Spectrum. It varies hugely. This should be treated the same as with any other kid who isn't respecting boundaries, or who has caused damage. Get off the internet, and speak to the parents. And I'm saying this as a parent of a child on the spectrum. I can't believe this even came into Legal Discussion. The child is still a child, there isn't any special laws in regard to them.

Yes it varies. The supervision and care that each child requires will vary, as with any child but particularly those with additional needs. This child obviously requires more supervision than the mother is currently providing, not a criticism of her, just a statement of fact if he's roaming other peoples houses without her knowing hes even left the house- it happens, but from what op says it seems its a regular occurance and leading to the child being put in harms way.

The op originally wanted to know about the damage done to his car and who is liable for it. Not about special laws that are applicable to the child so that's the legal aspect.

Some posters, including myself, felt that if the child is causing trouble (which is getting worse, and not just regular childish mucking about but opening doors and windows of people's houses, something that can land him in trouble as the op actually went on to explain) then he obviously is in need of more, or better, supervision- for HIS safety and well being more than anything else, and a call to social services/hse is one avenue the op could take in relation to that. Yes it may not lead to any more support for the mother or it may be a waste of time but as everybody who has dealt with the hse and access to supports for special needs children, the more documentation to support your case the more they are able to help (within constraints etc) and if someone contacts them saying they think a family is in need of support then if nothing else that's one more thing on file towards their case. Op says they seem to have a lot of support though so I doubt in this case it'd make much difference.

I'm sorry if you felt I was labeling all children with autism as kids that warrant social services being called if they get into trouble, that wasn't what anybody was saying i don't think, just from my reading of the op it wasn't regular childish mischief or what have you, it was behaviour that could cause big problems- opening doors to houses etc- and that can only be prevented with proper supervision, which she wasn't providing. As you said you have to adapt to their needs and behaviour and treat every case as different because it is so varied, and my point was that in this case the mother didn't seem to be doing that.

Anyway sorry for going off topic a bit, op seems to have decided on how to approach it, just wanted to explain where i was coming from so you didn't feel like I or any other posters were making generalisations about your situation or anything.

MarkR

No harm guys, must have needed my coffee. Sounds like the kid does need a lot more supervision. My son isn't anything like that thankfully, but still can't be out on his own (7) as he hasn't any sense of danger. I can't fathom a parent letting their child wander, if they can't take care of themselves. This goes for kids without any issues (toddlers roaming the roads drives me nuts!)

hullaballoo

Wyldwood, just from the point of view of whether this is a Legal Discussion matter or not, I'll give my view, fwiw.

In this type of case, it could become a legal issue but I suppose for the moment, it doesn't need to be. Approaching the child's mother is, imo, the correct way to proceed at first. I think going to the authorities at this stage is probably overkill if there is a less aggressive way to try and manage the situation.

Because of the potential for legal repercussions, however, I think this is probably one of a number of forums where this thread could be regarded as appropriate. There are other forums where you would receive responses from a totally different angle but you will get replies here that are (hopefully, ideally) of value to you.

FactCheck

Wyldwood wrote: »

Once he comes home from school he wanders at will, sometimes barefoot and scantily clad, which makes me think he escapes rather than being left out. I have taken him home on a number of occasions when he was chasing the bin lorry or the ride-on mower cutting the green and his mother would say she didn't know he was out. He also has a habit of running out to any car that is coming or going and all the neighbours are afraid he is going to be hurt by one of us as he is fearless.

They are aware of the nuisance he is to neighbours - he actually physically attacked a neighbour who found him upstairs in his house - but doesn't seem to care.

Oh dear, that sounds very difficult.

When I first read the suggestion of contacting social services, I winced because I thought it was a big over-reaction based on your OP. I was even going to suggest that you try talking to the child himself. As others have said, it's a spectrum and actually many autistic 14 year olds would understand and respond positively to a calm, friendly, and familiar neighbour telling them "Johnny, please don't pull up my plants, they are mine and I like to look at them. You can look but don't touch them or they will be ruined."

But that's obviously not suitable advice for this situation now.

What you've written above is very, very worrying. This boy's parents may be nice, professional people but they aren't looking after him properly. Perhaps the root of the problem is that the minder cannot cope with him (there are probably not many minders prepared to work with teenagers with special needs). But either way, the situation urgently needs to change because the boy is in danger at the moment, and putting other people in danger.

I would strongly reconsider contacting social services.

RainyDay

FactCheck wrote: »

I would strongly reconsider contacting social services.

What would be your expected outcome from contacting social services?

FactCheck

RainyDay wrote: »

What would be your expected outcome from contacting social services?

At worst, they are uninterested in assisting and the parents continue to struggle to keep the boy safe and nothing changes for him. This is the same outcome as if the OP chooses not to report.

At best, the parents being made aware that they must take steps to prevent the child escaping. Funding being available for house modifications if they cannot afford it. The parents being told (by an authority, not a neighbour they can dismiss as "nosy") that their minder isn't capable. And resources for school and home to continue to work on the boy's road safety.

And probably several other potential positive outcomes. I would expect a child with such complex needs and a special school to already have or have had some social worker contact, so this would not necessarily be a massive, life-upturning step but rather informing professionals who already support the boy.

The OP keeps their positive relationship with their neighbour (the OP really isn't in any way able to give the mother any of this support).

I certainly don't expect any kind of "punishment" or taking away the child or any nonsense like that.

Nanazolie

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The problem is that you went when it was too much for you and started at the bottom of the list. If you go to them when the issues start it is much more beneficial.

Not exactly. My son was first referred a year earlier, he was already on the list.
Anyway, as someone points out, autistic children can be very different. We don't know how this child is affected, but a lot of autistic children can be taught right from wrong and the fact that this child is autistic shouldn't influence how the neighbours react when he causes damages.

Sclosages

How old is this child?

Tasden

14

ABC101

Wyldwood wrote: »

Thank you for all the replies.

I intend to go and speak to my neighbour today when my son comes home and his car is here if she wants to see it. I won't call social services or the gardaí, that's not a runner.

I can't give too much background information as this could make the family identifiable but suffice it to say that the child's father is a local medical professional and the family are getting plenty of support. He is in a special school every morning and goes for respite care regularly.

His mother works and has a minder for him in the afternoons. I don't know what her qualifications are. Once he comes home from school he wanders at will, sometimes barefoot and scantily clad, which makes me think he escapes rather than being left out. I have taken him home on a number of occasions when he was chasing the bin lorry or the ride-on mower cutting the green and his mother would say she didn't know he was out. He also has a habit of running out to any car that is coming or going and all the neighbours are afraid he is going to be hurt by one of us as he is fearless.

They are aware of the nuisance he is to neighbours - he actually physically attacked a neighbour who found him upstairs in his house - but doesn't seem to care. I stay on good terms with her as I have great pity for her situation. He has done serious damage to his own house which involved them having to move out for a number of months while it was being repaired.

I realise it has to be brought to her attention in the hope of preventing further problems so I'll approach it in the nicest possible way but at the end of the day the damage to the car, although small (the drivers door will need repair and respray) will have to be paid for by someone.

Well then, looks like you have answered your own question, the fact that the father is a medical professional is great news, he should have a good insight into the situation, be able to source the correct help (which they seem to be doing anyway).

I would imagine that a friendly chat should be all that is required.

On the other hand you mention that they had to vacate the house for a while because the child seriously damaged it!!!!!!:eek:

That sounds fairly serious, I am beginning to wonder wonder if the parents actually understand the seriousness of the situation? Or do they have blinkers on... "Little johnny did not mean it"

From what you have written, the problem seems to be the minder, who either does not realise the child has left the building scantily clad and is chasing bin lorries or does not care to notice.

Rereading your post.... It seems to be the minder is the issue! Or is it the child is now too strong for the minder?

RainyDay

FactCheck wrote: »

At worst, they are uninterested in assisting and the parents continue to struggle to keep the boy safe and nothing changes for him. This is the same outcome as if the OP chooses not to report.

At best, the parents being made aware that they must take steps to prevent the child escaping. Funding being available for house modifications if they cannot afford it. The parents being told (by an authority, not a neighbour they can dismiss as "nosy") that their minder isn't capable. And resources for school and home to continue to work on the boy's road safety.

And probably several other potential positive outcomes. I would expect a child with such complex needs and a special school to already have or have had some social worker contact, so this would not necessarily be a massive, life-upturning step but rather informing professionals who already support the boy.

The OP keeps their positive relationship with their neighbour (the OP really isn't in any way able to give the mother any of this support).

I certainly don't expect any kind of "punishment" or taking away the child or any nonsense like that.

I appreciate your good intentions, but I fear that you are a bit distant from the reality of what happens in Ireland today. If one of the parents is a medical professional, they will almost certainly be outside the income limit for the Housing Adaptation Grant (which is generally heavily oversubscribed and backlogged anyway). So they chances of them getting extra support to adapt their house is tiny.

Resources for school will stay in school. They won't get involved in the child's home life. They're not resourced to do this, so they won't have time.

As far as getting extra resources for home, well maybe this would be a possibility, but I'm sure you've seen people with disabilities camping outside the Dail overnight looking for extra resources, so I'm not too sure how a social worker would help.

I don't think (though I'm open to correction) that a child with autism would normally have a social worker involved. They may well have a multi-disciplinary team of therapists, but to the best of my knowledge, social workers don't routinely get involved.

I really don't see how involving a social worker would help at this stage. Certainly the parents need to be informed about what happened, so they understand what is happening with the minder.

FactCheck

RainyDay wrote: »

I appreciate your good intentions, but I fear that you are a bit distant from the reality of what happens in Ireland today. If one of the parents is a medical professional, they will almost certainly be outside the income limit for the Housing Adaptation Grant (which is generally heavily oversubscribed and backlogged anyway). So they chances of them getting extra support to adapt their house is tiny.

Resources for school will stay in school. They won't get involved in the child's home life. They're not resourced to do this, so they won't have time.

As far as getting extra resources for home, well maybe this would be a possibility, but I'm sure you've seen people with disabilities camping outside the Dail overnight looking for extra resources, so I'm not too sure how a social worker would help.

I don't think (though I'm open to correction) that a child with autism would normally have a social worker involved. They may well have a multi-disciplinary team of therapists, but to the best of my knowledge, social workers don't routinely get involved.

I really don't see how involving a social worker would help at this stage. Certainly the parents need to be informed about what happened, so they understand what is happening with the minder.

I may indeed be overly optimistic; I now live in a country with a robust and functional child protection system and I do realise the situation in Ireland is frequently shambolic.

However, I don't believe this family is beyond help, and I think you've (understandably) skated over a few of the particulars of the situation.

The wealth of the father (and we don't know he's a doctor, if he's a part-time paramedic he may well earn very little) isn't relevant to a grant given that the parents are divorced with separate households. The mother may well qualify for financial help. Even if they have to pay for it themselves, they could be given genuinely helpful advice for containing a strong teenager in the house. Given that he's only 14, his ability to escape may be fairly recent and they may actually be struggling to think what to do (and too embarrassed to ask themselves).

Likewise, if the school knows he needs more work on road safety, that's something they can work on with him - it doesn't matter that can only happen at school, he would still benefit from it.

From what I read above, the parents don't need the OP to "inform" them any more. They know their son has escaped again and again, from the mother and the minder. They know he broke into a neighbour's home and attacked someone. The OP seems to be a compassionate and sensible neighbour - she's said all a lay person can really say. Nothing is changing. The lad needs more to be done for him, and that means taking an official step.

I understand the OP doesn't want to do it but I think that the next time she sees the boy putting himself or somebody else in danger, she should strongly consider calling.

Wyldwood

Thanks for all the advice folks.

Have been trying to catch my neighbour at home for the last few days unsuccessfully but when I saw the boy out and about today in the pouring rain, without shoes and socks, I figured somebody was home.

My husband went in and explained what happened and she immediately said that it would be sorted out, that we should be able to park our cars safely in our garden - money is not an issue with her. The quote for the repair is €250. We didn't make a big deal of it as I have huge sympathy for her as a separated mother with a very demanding child.

However, the child has since been out and about again and was found in a neighbour's back garden having climbed the side gate. I actually don't think she's very concerned about trying to control him. Both mother and minder were in the house today while he was out in the rain.

ABC101

Wyldwood wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice folks.

Have been trying to catch my neighbour at home for the last few days unsuccessfully but when I saw the boy out and about today in the pouring rain, without shoes and socks, I figured somebody was home.

My husband went in and explained what happened and she immediately said that it would be sorted out, that we should be able to park our cars safely in our garden - money is not an issue with her. The quote for the repair is €250. We didn't make a big deal of it as I have huge sympathy for her as a separated mother with a very demanding child.

However, the child has since been out and about again and was found in a neighbour's back garden having climbed the side gate. I actually don't think she's very concerned about trying to control him. Both mother and minder were in the house today while he was out in the rain.

That does not sound like good news at all.

The reason why the damage occurred is because the boy is unsupervised. IMO it is only a matter of time before more damage occurs.

It's good she had sympathy for your loss and offered cost of damages. However the child is still at large, a risk to himself at least.

Maybe that is what is going to have to happen before they put the boy on new or stronger medication.

Maybe there is a reluctance on behalf of one or both of the parents to do this.

Tough situation indeed!!

JumpShivers

Hi OP,

It's a tough situation you're in. I wouldn't go down the route of 'calling social services', because that is simply wrong and it might seem a problem solved for the neighbourhood, but not for the mother and child involved... It really would distress the child even more. I would say a lot of users here haven't got first hand experience of how distressing it can be, for both the autistic person and family. I've yet to see someone say 'call social services' for a child that's out misbehaving, just a simple 'tell the parents and hopefully it's dealt with'. It's very difficult, bringing up an autistic child who probably didn't get the right amount of help about the condition.

How well do you know the neighbours, OP? If well, I would suggest going and expressing your concern gently and explain the situation about the minder - maybe she has qualifications/none/whatever... Maybe the parents aren't aware of the seriousness of the situation. I am sure that the parents are probably are worried also.

Pixie Chief

Wow, OP, that's a really tough situation you have there. I have so much respect for your obvious kindness towards this family and their difficulties. I have two children with HF autism and so maybe have a teensy insight into the difficulties they face although no one can know another's situation really. What I'm going to say might sound harsh and uncaring BUT please read to the end before telling me off!!

The issue is not the child, the autism or the parents. All are doing their best under very trying circumstances. Long term care for a disabled person often grinds people down to the point that they no longer have the mental, emotional or physical energy to tackle each new development the way it should be tackled. It's not ok, but it happens.

This situation has the potential to cause real harm to the child and everyone around him - and perhaps worse. What if he lets another small child out of their house while he is getting in? What happens to them?

The sad reality is that the boy needs to be in full-time care if his current carers cannot keep him and others out of danger. It is the same choice often faced by families who have a member with Alzheimer's. Keeping an able-bodied, adult sized individual completely safe (and those around them) is a monumentally difficult task and there comes a time when, for a variety of reasons, that is no longer possible in a home setting.

If it were me, I would get the guards and social services involved with a view to seeking an order for specialised residential care IF the mother is not able or willing to either get the situation under control by those or other means. While I would do it reluctantly and very, very sadly I would still do it...not out of badness, or because I believe disabled people should be locked up or any of those reasons. I would do it purely and only because that situation is a train wreck waiting to happen, someone is eventually going to get, at a minimum, very badly hurt and I would have a hard time living with the fact that I knew that was coming and I did nothing about it.

I think the rights and wrongs of this and every other similar situations are very grey indeed. I can only give my two cents and they may be completely wrong OP, but I hope you all find a resolution in everyone's best interests.