A4 Racing

Lusk_Doyle

mathie wrote: »

So it's the Full Competition license?

For open races it is. Club competition if you only intend to do club races.

harringtonp

doozerie wrote: »

Definitely just do it, if that's an accurate measure of your FTP you could fare well. My FTP is a meagre 220W (@57kg) but even with that I managed to pick up a few A4 points during the year. It's not all about FTP, of course, but it does count for a lot.

Thats 3.86 W/KG which is good for A4 racing, not suprised you're picking up points.

mathie

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

For open races it is. Club competition if you only intend to do club races.

Is that the "Limited Competition License"?

Lusk_Doyle

mathie wrote: »

Is that the "Limited Competition License"?

I believe so. Years since I had one of them but it rings a bell.

yop

doozerie wrote: »

Definitely just do it, if that's an accurate measure of your FTP you could fare well. My FTP is a meagre 220W (@57kg) but even with that I managed to pick up a few A4 points during the year. It's not all about FTP, of course, but it does count for a lot.

As a category, A4 would benefit a lot from more strong riders who are willing to attack and turn each race into a real race, if you are willing to do that in races then you'll liven things up to the benefit of everyone and you may well pick up points too.

How are lads measuring this? I have trainer road and I see they have a 20 min FTP stage, I don't have a power meter, all I have is a garmin with cadences sensor and a HRM and ANT+, I presume that isn't enough to measure my FTP?
Sorry for the daft question!

CramCycle

Limited competition is for non open road races eg track, MTB, BMX, cyclocross etc. The one license covers all of these.

Full competition covers everything.

Club competition covers insurance for club leagues.

spyderski

yop wrote: »

How are lads measuring this? I have trainer road and I see they have a 20 min FTP stage, I don't have a power meter, all I have is a garmin with cadences sensor and a HRM and ANT+, I presume that isn't enough to measure my FTP?
Sorry for the daft question!

With a power meter.

jinkypolly

yop wrote: »

How are lads measuring this? I have trainer road and I see they have a 20 min FTP stage, I don't have a power meter, all I have is a garmin with cadences sensor and a HRM and ANT+, I presume that isn't enough to measure my FTP?
Sorry for the daft question!

If you have TrainerRoad set up on a laptop or computer with a ANT+ mini usb stick then it will give you a virtual power reading based on what turbo trainer you are using.

maesrichard1

Ive raced A4 this year and the racing was ok, speed average approx 36-40kph depending on the course elevation. My 20mins FTP was 360w in June and im 71kg. In my younger days when i had more time to train and before i stopped cycling for 6 years i was 380w and was 62.5kg. I did three A4 races and i was moved up to A3 racing. I then got sent away with work for a few months so only got to ride one A3

Harrybelafonte

A4s with Powermeters? Plenty of money in this cycling lark.

yop

jinkypolly wrote: »

If you have TrainerRoad set up on a laptop or computer with a ANT+ mini usb stick then it will give you a virtual power reading based on what turbo trainer you are using.

So the virtual power reading is a gimmick really without a Power meter?

bren_mc

yop wrote: »

So the virtual power reading is a gimmick really without a Power meter?

The accuracy of "virtual power" will differ depending on the turbo that's used. I think the makers of trainer-road recommend the kurt kinetic ones as they have the most reliable power curve, and so are able to display a virtual power reading that should be very close to the real thing.

The important thing about virtual power is that its consistent between sessions. So if my first test suggests an FTP of say 200 watts, and my second shows 220 watts then I can be reasonably satisfied that I've improved by 10% (assuming all other variables like tyre pressure etc are the same). The actual improvement might only be, for example, 190 watts to 209 watts.

yop

bren_mc wrote: »

The accuracy of "virtual power" will differ depending on the turbo that's used. I think the makers of trainer-road recommend the kurt kinetic ones as they have the most reliable power curve, and so are able to display a virtual power reading that should be very close to the real thing.

The important thing about virtual power is that its consistent between sessions. So if my first test suggests an FTP of say 200 watts, and my second shows 220 watts then I can be reasonably satisfied that I've improved by 10% (assuming all other variables like tyre pressure etc are the same). The actual improvement might only be, for example, 190 watts to 209 watts.

They do indeed recommend that turbo.
I have this here, http://www.wiggle.com/elite-crono-fluid-elastogel-trainer/ which they say is "supported", but I Am sure they all are

I have a piss power FTP at 208 for 91kg going by Trainerroad. Time to lose the fat and get the legs!!
I will try the FTP test tonight and see what happens!

couerdelion

The difference between my PM and Virtual using TrainerRoad is minimal - that's using a Cyclops Magneto and a Power2Max.

doozerie

couerdelion wrote: »

The difference between my PM and Virtual using TrainerRoad is minimal - that's using a Cyclops Magneto and a Power2Max.

Likewise, I've compared the output from TrainerRoad and my PowerTap during a turbo session and they were almost indistinguishable.

TrainerRoad's accuracy relies entirely on the user, assuming they've done a good job of deriving a suitable algorithm for your turbo trainer to start with. You have to select the right device from their list of supported turbo trainers, you need to set the resistance on the turbo (if the turbo provides that option) to whatever TrainerRoad expect it to be, and you have to leave the resistance set to that for the duration of every session. As an example, the device that I use with my Tacx Flow turbo trainer assumes that I have the resistance on my turbo set constantly to +2. If I set the resistance lower/higher, then TrainerRoad will overestimate/underestimate my power output.

doozerie

harringtonp wrote: »

Thats 3.86 W/KG which is good for A4 racing, not suprised you're picking up points.

Yeah, my W/Kg ratio certainly helps on the hills, but on the flats I tend to find myself surrounded by greyhounds and my short little terrier legs are no match for them.

I reckon there are lots of A4 riders who underestimate their strengths and adopt the tactic of banking all hope of victory on the frequently massive sprint at the end. It's a real shame as it doesn't make for a very interesting race all too often.

harringtonp

yop wrote: »

They do indeed recommend that turbo.
I have this here, http://www.wiggle.com/elite-crono-fluid-elastogel-trainer/ which they say is "supported", but I Am sure they all are

I have a piss power FTP at 208 for 91kg going by Trainerroad. Time to lose the fat and get the legs!!
I will try the FTP test tonight and see what happens!

I have that turbo also, would you have a link to the powercurve on Trainerroad ?
I'd be interested in checking it out myself against my PM

yop

harringtonp wrote: »

I have that turbo also, would you have a link to the powercurve on Trainerroad ?
I'd be interested in checking it out myself against my PM

Is that a link to the 20 minute test I did? I did one in 2012 and one in 2013, I'd be embarrassed to share it as it would like "girlie" compared to lads on here!

I planned on doing the 20 minute test lad night but 2 sick kids and one on hospital has kicked that in the liathroidi.

doozerie

harringtonp wrote: »

I have that turbo also, would you have a link to the powercurve on Trainerroad ?
I'd be interested in checking it out myself against my PM

If you have an account with TrainerRoad you can select your trainer from their pull-down list. The list itself is available here, though it does nothing more than state whether the trainer is supported or not, it doesn't actually give any info on the power curve. They have a forum, of sorts, where I've found various trainers being discussed before, but I can't seem to find it right now for some reason.

instinct

What about the crashes ?

I had contemplated entering A4 this year but the stories of crashes, broken bones and bikes, lads climbing out of ditches covered in road rash just put me off to be honest.

harringtonp

doozerie wrote: »

If you have an account with TrainerRoad you can select your trainer from their pull-down list. The list itself is available here, though it does nothing more than state whether the trainer is supported or not, it doesn't actually give any info on the power curve. They have a forum, of sorts, where I've found various trainers being discussed before, but I can't seem to find it right now for some reason.

Thanks, as Yop has an account with them for that Turbo, I was hoping he would see a powercurve image for it somewhere in this account and be able to forward the image or link on to me.

yop

harringtonp wrote: »

Thanks, as Yop has an account with them for that Turbo, I was hoping he would see a powercurve image for it somewhere in this account and be able to forward the image or link on to me.

Is that a image of the Power Curve on the 20 min test?
This is a link to the 2 I have done. Not sure if that helps?
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/316630-20-Minute-Test
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/102642-20-Minute-Test

doozerie

instinct wrote: »

What about the crashes ?

I had contemplated entering A4 this year but the stories of crashes, broken bones and bikes, lads climbing out of ditches covered in road rash just put me off to be honest.

I've seen a few crashes in A4 and in almost every case I reckon that the crash was caused by blatantly dangerous riding by someone or other. As a category what it needs is more conscientious riders, if you are the kind of person that thinks a crash is a bad thing then you would be an asset to the category and you'd potentially help dilute the risk. Better still if you opt to be vocal towards those acting dangerously, more of that would help moderate peoples' behaviour for the better too.

As regards the risk to yourself, keeping a level head will go a long way towards keeping you safe in a race. There is a lot that you can do to minimise your chances of being caught up in a crash. You can't rule out plain bad luck, of course, but bad luck can get you in any situation, racing or otherwise, so don't let that risk dissuade you

yop

doozerie wrote: »

I've seen a few crashes in A4 and in almost every case I reckon that the crash was caused by blatantly dangerous riding by someone or other. As a category what it needs is more conscientious riders, if you are the kind of person that thinks a crash is a bad thing then you would be an asset to the category and you'd potentially help dilute the risk. Better still if you opt to be vocal towards those acting dangerously, more of that would help moderate peoples' behaviour for the better too.

As regards the risk to yourself, keeping a level head will go a long way towards keeping you safe in a race. There is a lot that you can do to minimise your chances of being caught up in a crash. You can't rule out plain bad luck, of course, but bad luck can get you in any situation, racing or otherwise, so don't let that risk dissuade you

Absolutely, what you are having is lads who seem to jump from buying a bike in 2013, doing an adventure race in 2014 then go racing A4 in 2014, still not used to group handling, still not used to the "calls" within group cycling and seem to have little idea or care about those around them.
As you said it needs vocal guys to shout it as it is, otherwise your going to have more crashes.
You'd nearly want a learner plate on your bike for when you go to A4 and have ridden X amount of group spins or rides before you enter A4 racing.
Just my own thoughts

doozerie

harringtonp wrote: »

Thanks, as Yop has an account with them for that Turbo, I was hoping he would see a powercurve image for it somewhere in this account and be able to forward the image or link on to me.

I don't think so, unfortunately, I checked my account just now and it doesn't give any such info for my trainer.

There used to be some interesting detailed discussion on their online forum regarding various trainers, but either they've buried that forum away very deep somewhere or they've just removed it, which would be a shame.

Welshkev

instinct wrote: »

What about the crashes ?

I had contemplated entering A4 this year but the stories of crashes, broken bones and bikes, lads climbing out of ditches covered in road rash just put me off to be honest.

Don't worry about them. Was my first year racing in A4 and wasn't in involved in any (touch wood). As doozerie said, if you're a conscientious rider you'll generally be ok. I did see lots of idiots riding on wrong sides of roads / blind corners etc. and I'll bet my last dollar these are the ones involved / causing crashes. Staying near the front helps avoid getting caught up, and don't look back when you hear the inevitable coming together's!

Peterx

instinct wrote: »

What about the crashes ?

I had contemplated entering A4 this year but the stories of crashes, broken bones and bikes, lads climbing out of ditches covered in road rash just put me off to be honest.

You could change the word A4 for A3 or A1 in that quote and it would work just as well.
Crashes seem to happen at all levels of the sport. As others have said more education and more vocal advice by all will help at A4 level, or Any level.
As others have said, be conscientious yourself and be vocal when you see dangerous riding by others.

The watt/kg aspect is only one part of racing, road craft and knowing how to ride in the bunch out of the wind can be more useful than a high watt/kg number (although no harm in having good power obviously, especially right at the end of the race)

daragh_

Kevinleeowen wrote: »

Don't worry about them. Was my first year racing in A4 and wasn't in involved in any (touch wood). As doozerie said, if you're a conscientious rider you'll generally be ok. I did see lots of idiots riding on wrong sides of roads / blind corners etc. and I'll bet my last dollar these are the ones involved / causing crashes. Staying near the front helps avoid getting caught up, and don't look back when you hear the inevitable coming together's!

You can be as conscientious as you like, it won't stop some idiot sprinting for 40th through the bunch taking you out. :rolleyes:

That said I only saw one bad crash for the whole of this year and i think that was caused by a pothole (Tour of Omagh).

Keep your eyes open, be predictable in the bunch, don't stray from your line in a sprint and don't follow the idiots up the wrong side of the road or around blind corners as Kevinleeowen says. Crashes happen but it's still the most fun you can have on two wheels.

harringtonp

yop wrote: »

Is that a image of the Power Curve on the 20 min test?
This is a link to the 2 I have done. Not sure if that helps?
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/316630-20-Minute-Test
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/102642-20-Minute-Test

Thanks but its not quite what I was after. For that trainer they will have a graph somewhere that maps speed to power which is called the powercurve for the trainer. I guess the way their system is set up they don't need to reveal this information but this is ultimately where your power figures are coming from.

harringtonp

Did the National Vets Championship this year, first time ever racing with guys roughly my own age.

Biggest impression the race made on me was how polite competitors were compared to what I have been used to.

The guy next to me in the carpark remarked that at our stage injury is usually costlier that when younger. I guess nobody in that race had world champ aspirations and all bar probably 10-15 were just along for the ride and happy to hang in the main bunch.