It's wild out there..

ILIKEFOOD

An observation of the state of renting houses in Dublin while claiming Rent Allowance.

Myself and my partner and child have been looking to move in together for about 3 months now.

I went back to college (again) and am hopeful of finding work. She went back to college (again) and won't be done for another 3 years. She was allowed to keep her welfare and RA.

We were looking at a place yesterday in Drumcondra for €1300pm. The place was an absolute toilet. The LL rocked up in a massive SUV and let us in to view. We didn't even bother looking at upstairs. She looked ashamed and rightly so..How is this allowed to happen?

Lovely house nearby for the same amount, RA not accepted. What a shame, for us and the LL whose missing out on decent tenants. Place has been up for a few weeks now.

What madness is this!?

If it weren't for the child in school and the lack of job prospects in Dublin I'd happily get out of here at this stage.

It's hard not to take it personally, I feel discriminated and unwanted in my own city. And LL's are taking people for a ride. (not all - my current LL is only asking for €995 for my current 3 bedroom in D7.. and we've just put our names down for a new lease..shes knows i'll be going asap so no probs there) If only I could get the housemates to move out

Michael D Not Higgins

Your max is €950 in Dublin on rent allowance with one child. Any place for rent at €1300 literally cannot accept rent allowance.

ILIKEFOOD

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Your max is €950 in Dublin on rent allowance with one child. Any place for rent at €1300 literally cannot accept rent allowance.

My Gf has been told by her local welfare that she can rent above that but obviously has to pay the extra herself...

Michael D Not Higgins

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

My Gf has been told by her local welfare that she can rent above that but obviously has to pay the extra herself...

Doubt it

ILIKEFOOD

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Doubt it

from citizens information

Cases where rent is over the relevant limit
In some cases Rent Supplement can be paid at the discretion of the DSP staff administering the scheme where the rent is over the relevant limit:

If you or a member of your household has special housing needs (for example, a disabled person in specially adapted accommodation).
If you will be able to pay the rent yourself within a short period, if, for example, if you are taking up employment. In this case Rent Supplement at a higher rate can be paid for a short period of 6-8 weeks.
If you have additional income to pay the balance yourself (Rent Supplement is still based on the maximum rent limit)
If there are other exceptional circumstances. (Special provisions apply if you are at risk of becoming homeless.)

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

her own rent was upped beyond the limit and they said fine..

anyway in case you missed it. My main grievance was the sheer criminality of the LL looking for 1300 for a glorified toilet. Happy to take full market prices from RA recipients for a total sh!thole...it's disgusting greed

Mrs OBumble

There are schools and colleges all over the country. Maybe not so many jobs - but if you're unemployed you can be unemployed anywhere.

Sounds harsh, I know. But you have a right to housing assistance, not to be housed in a particular place.

Was the house you looked at yesterday so bad that you can report it to the council as not meeting minimum rental standards? That is the mechanism for stopping LL's from renting slums. I don't think you need to be living in the place to report it to the council.

MouseTail

What has the Landlord's choice of car got to do with anything?

Berserker

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

I went back to college (again) and am hopeful of finding work. She went back to college (again) and won't be done for another 3 years. She was allowed to keep her welfare and RA.

Why is she allowed to keep her welfare and RA, if she is back in full time education?

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

We were looking at a place yesterday in Drumcondra for €1300pm. The place was an absolute toilet. The LL rocked up in a massive SUV and let us in to view. We didn't even bother looking at upstairs. She looked ashamed and rightly so..How is this allowed to happen?

Not surprised to hear that the place was a dump at all. An all too common complaint. I am surprised to hear that she looked ashamed though. Most wouldn't give a damn. My brother and his OH are out looking at the moment on the south side. He told a lady that they place was a kip and he wouldn't dream of parting with €1400 a month for it and she was highly insulted. Report it.

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

If it weren't for the child in school and the lack of job prospects in Dublin I'd happily get out of here at this stage.

Why don't you think of things from a more long term prospective? Your child is young by the sounds of things and given the price of housing in Dublin, it is going to become extremely difficult to buy there. Would you not consider re-locating to somewhere outside Dublin?

We are lucky that money isn't an issue for us. We could afford to rent anywhere in Dublin but we refuse to pay the current rent. We moved out of the city a few years ago and got a brand new house (3-bed) in a very small estate for a very reasonable rent. We pay less than €800 and we haven't had an increase since we moved in as the landlord knows the house is in good hands. RA is going to be a big problem, i'm not going to lie to you.

ILIKEFOOD

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There are schools and colleges all over the country. Maybe not so many jobs - but if you're unemployed you can be unemployed anywhere.

Sounds harsh, I know. But you have a right to housing assistance, not to be housed in a particular place.

Was the house you looked at yesterday so bad that you can report it to the council as not meeting minimum rental standards? That is the mechanism for stopping LL's from renting slums. I don't think you need to be living in the place to report it to the council.

I didn't think of reporting it. It certainly was a slum for that price... Must look up to see what would constitute as a slum in that respect

Yeah I totally understand that. My girlfriends daughter is not my daughter her father lives in Dublin. Shes had a turbulent past 2 years in school and is only settling in now.

I understand everyone has to make sacrifices and bend to fit the the system etc.. just don't see how we could all move together beyond the location.

Otherwise I'd be fast out of here! somewhere exotic and sunny :P

ILIKEFOOD

MouseTail wrote: »

What has the Landlord's choice of car got to do with anything?

Oh I don't know, reminded me of Strumpet City... poor povs paying extortionate prices for a total kip to keep her in cream and buns!

in honesty, born and reared in Foxrock, wealth doesn't bother me, but that scene yesterday would have fit well into a Dickens novel..

ILIKEFOOD

Berserker wrote: »

Why is she allowed to keep her welfare and RA, if she is back in full time education?


Why don't you think of things from a more long term prospective? Your child is young by the sounds of things and given the price of housing in Dublin, it is going to become extremely difficult to buy there. Would you not consider re-locating to somewhere outside Dublin?

She applied for back to education - basically allows her to keep her dole and rent allowance, but she has to foot the fees herself....

The daughter has 2 more years left in school - after that we can go wherever, so you're right, might have to think more long term..I'd almost prefer to make that decision and stop agonizing over it..

fair play for not accepting and moving out...

Michael D Not Higgins

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

her own rent was upped beyond the limit and they said fine..

That's all well and good and allowable in the short term for someone to not become homeless. I very much doubt the welfare officer okayed a bump of €350 above the limit for your girlfriend to move into a new place. It just doesn't happen.

ILIKEFOOD

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That's all well and good and allowable in the short term for someone to not become homeless. I very much doubt the welfare officer okayed a bump of €350 above the limit for your girlfriend to move into a new place. It just doesn't happen.

This is true, we haven't obviously moved yet. However she was told, and I've no reason to lie to you.. that if she moved and could afford the difference then that's fine. So either someone is repeatedly giving the wrong information or not.

We have been assessed for rent allowance and welfare, we get what we get based on that assessment and it appears possible to do this...

Perhaps they are being lenient given the way things are in Dublin at the moment?

Geuze

MouseTail wrote: »

What has the Landlord's choice of car got to do with anything?

The type/value of the car is a reflection of the huge rental incomes earned by landlords in Dublin.

The tenant is unfortunately subsidising that lifestyle, as rents are way too high.

CatFromHue

Geuze wrote: »

The type/value of the car is a reflection of the huge rental incomes earned by landlords in Dublin.

The tenant is unfortunately subsidising that lifestyle, as rents are way too high.

Don't know about that now.

Landlords have bills to pay themselves as well.

hfallada

LLs have huge amounts of taxes to pay. They have to pay USC, PAYE and now even PRSI on their rental income(even through they wont get the traditional benefits of PRSI such as unemployment benefit). LLs also now have to pay property tax. Plus they can only claim 75%mortgage interest relief against their taxes. Maybe LLs have sold up as they cant afford to carry out new regulations introduced such as getting rid of Pre 63s. Even if LLs increased their rents by 20% over the last few years, I imagine they are just covering the massive increases of taxes on them.

People seem to forget that LLs dont keep the quoted rent. There is mortgages, taxes, expenses and the wage they need for their time. The Irish resentment of LLs goes back to the famine. But most LLs only have a few properties and are trying to survive.

ILIKEFOOD

CatFromHue wrote: »

Don't know about that now.

Landlords have bills to pay themselves as well.

i dont begrudge anyone who does well for themselves through honest work. Honest being the key word.

€1300 for a kip is not honest. It's taking advantage.

quadrifoglio verde

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

i dont begrudge anyone who does well for themselves through honest work. Honest being the key word.

€1300 for a kip is not honest. It's taking advantage.

and if its overpriced, they'll never get 1300. But if someone else out there wants to live in the area and thats the most they could afford, then they'll rent it for 1300.


It isn't the landlord trying to screw you over, the landlord doesn't decide the rent, the tenant does

pwurple

Geuze wrote: »

The tenant is unfortunately subsidising that lifestyle, as rents are way too high.

Excuse me, but aren't the people in question welfare recipients? Think about who is doing the subsidising here again for a second....

CatFromHue

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

i dont begrudge anyone who does well for themselves through honest work. Honest being the key word.

€1300 for a kip is not honest. It's taking advantage.

You don't know how much their mortgage is though?

I'm not saying the place isn't a kip.

Geuze

Yes of course.


But commercial rents are way too high, supported by upward-only rent reviews.


Quinn's pub in Drumcondra was 30,000 per month to rent.

IMO, that rent needs to fall 90%.

ILIKEFOOD

pwurple wrote: »

Excuse me, but aren't the people in question welfare recipients? Think about who is doing the subsidising here again for a second....

Is that even relevant? If landlords felt like that it's a wonder they aren't clambering to get their taxes back and offering places up to RA recipients ONLY! What a foolish thing to say

ILIKEFOOD

CatFromHue wrote: »

You don't know how much their mortgage is though?

I'm not saying the place isn't a kip.

True, with the market being in their favour sure why not make the most of it. It's a sad situation..

ILIKEFOOD

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

and if its overpriced, they'll never get 1300. But if someone else out there wants to live in the area and thats the most they could afford, then they'll rent it for 1300.


It isn't the landlord trying to screw you over, the landlord doesn't decide the rent, the tenant does

I don't agree with this. The place was a dump. They're offering it at that price because of demand. Simple economics etc, but this is a home were talking about, not just a commodity..and it's disgusting to see people being shown sh!t and being asked to pay handsomely for it. That's the landlords choice. Sure it's a business etc, even still given the personal nature and the stressful situation in Dublin it makes it far worse. Like wealthy pharmaceuticals bleeding patients dry for expensive life saving drugs..*slighlty dramatic* there's a sense of taking advantage of a vulnerable situation...

quadrifoglio verde

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

I don't agree with this. The place was a dump. They're offering it at that price because of demand. Simple economics etc, but this is a home were talking about, not just a commodity..and it's disgusting to see people being shown sh!t and being asked to pay handsomely for it. That's the landlords choice. Sure it's a business etc, even still given the personal nature and the stressful situation in Dublin it makes it far worse. Like wealthy pharmaceuticals bleeding patients dry for expensive life saving drugs..*slighlty dramatic* there's a sense of taking advantage of a vulnerable situation...

And if the cost of new pharma drugs were low from the offset, it wouldn't be developed in the first place. Its around the billion dollar mark to bring a new drug to market.
Anyway totally off topic.

Heres the thing. The most you can afford is 1300, if its a kip, you don't have to pay 1300, you just don't live there. If no one else pays 1300, then the rent will fall. However if the place wasn't a kip, do you really think that it wouldn't rent at more than 1300? In which case you wouldn't be viewing it anyway. Theres a saying, beggars can't be choosers. If I can't afford more than x and x is below the standard of y which costs more, then I can't really complain.
I can look at what I can do so I can earn enough so I can have product y, but I can't sit there and complain that product x isn't as good as y.

hfallada

Geuze wrote: »

Yes of course.


But commercial rents are way too high, supported by upward-only rent reviews.


Quinn's pub in Drumcondra was 30,000 per month to rent.

IMO, that rent needs to fall 90%.

But Quinns is probably one of the busiest pubs on a Match Day in Dublin, as its literally beside Croke Park. It is also the main nightclub for St. Pats, Mater Dei and probably DCU. Its also the main nightclub for the suburbs of Drumcondra, Glasnevin and Phisboro. The bar is massive when you include the smoking area, lounge and nightclub section at the back.

When you consider these factors, €30k is quite a fair rent for the amount of Business it has in a month. If the rent was unsustainable, the tenant would hand back keys and the place would be back on the market to find the market rate(this is what capitalism is about). But Quinns is still thriving, suggesting the rent is a fair price

MouseTail

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

Is that even relevant? If landlords felt like that it's a wonder they aren't clambering to get their taxes back and offering places up to RA recipients ONLY! What a foolish thing to say

Landlords do not get tax back if they rent to RA recipients.

athtrasna

I thought RA was only paid where there is a housing need? OP you say you have a new lease on your current house. If your gf and her child are housed then just because you want to live together it isn't the same as needing to live together. I also don't buy your gf being told that she can pay so much over the RA limit. 100 maybe but not 300+, does she have this in writing? I fear that may fall through if she doesn't

pwurple

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

Is that even relevant? If landlords felt like that it's a wonder they aren't clambering to get their taxes back and offering places up to RA recipients ONLY! What a foolish thing to say

It's relevant when someone trots out some nonsense about non-working welfare recipients apparantly subsiding taxpayers.

Pardon me for calling bull when I see it.

Jawgap

I don't understand........ Why not just move to an area, even if it's outside the city, that has rents within your budget?

Isn't that what people do? You decide what you want and how much you can afford then go find somewhere that is affordable and meets your criteria.

And sorry if your partner's child has to change schools - lots of kids change schools. In fact, if you want her to go to a new school you should move out a bit - they ain't building new schools in Drumcondra.

Btw- I grew up around there and would love to have bought in the area so my kids could be close to their extended family and even go to my old school. Simply couldn't afford it so had to move out.

Larry Wildman

OP, have you ever heard the phrase "beggars can't be choosers"?

Your sense of entitlement is breathtaking.

The landlord who you're so scathing about bought his/her SUV with his/her own hard earned cash.

You on the other hand are a drain on society. You flippantly talk about you (and your partner - don't get me started on her) going back to college again. Why don't you get a job? Why don't you stop leeching off everyone else (including your prospective landlord)?

What is it with Ireland? People see a landlord with a nice car and they begrudge him. Be thankful you don't live in the States - You'd be in the Baltimore projects.

ILIKEFOOD

Larry Wildman wrote: »

OP, have you ever heard the phrase "beggars can't be choosers"?

Your sense of entitlement is breathtaking.

The landlord who you're so scathing about bought his/her SUV with his/her own hard earned cash.

You on the other hand are a drain on society. You flippantly talk about you (and your partner - don't get me started on her) going back to college again. Why don't you get a job? Why don't you stop leeching off everyone else (including your prospective landlord)?

What is it with Ireland? People see a landlord with a nice car and they begrudge him. Be thankful you don't live in the States - You'd be in the Baltimore projects.

Currently starting my own business and in receipt of enterprise allowance. So you can shove you're pathetic attitude elsewhere

Obviously I don't want to be in this situation forever.

When I see two houses for 1300, ones a
Kip that accepts RA, the other doesn't forgive me for feeling like someone is taking advantage.

If Ireland had rent capping, and a system of welfare payments that do not involve the landlord whatsoever there probably wouldn't be extortionate rents and a lot more people in homes that are befitting of a modern society. This exists elsewhere. Obviously I'm not a landlord so obviously I want things in my favour.

As for a sense of entitlement, well I guess that comes from my comfortable middle class up bringing, it's been a real eye opener the whole thing..and an experience that will have broadened my attitude to people in this situation...

Did you miss the part where I clearly said I didn't begrudge wealth? But that the sheer comic value of LL rocking up in the SUV and asking for 1300 for a dump was too funny not to comment on?

As for movin away from Dublin, I'd have no problem in that, abroad even. I'd embrace the adventure, however I don't get to call all the shots...

ILIKEFOOD

Larry Wildman wrote: »

OP, have you ever heard the phrase "beggars can't be choosers"?

Your sense of entitlement is breathtaking.

The landlord who you're so scathing about bought his/her SUV with his/her own hard earned cash.

You on the other hand are a drain on society. You flippantly talk about you (and your partner - don't get me started on her) going back to college again. Why don't you get a job? Why don't you stop leeching off everyone else (including your prospective landlord)?

What is it with Ireland? People see a landlord with a nice car and they begrudge him. Be thankful you don't live in the States - You'd be in the Baltimore projects.

You understand that the college thing is to further my prospects of getting a job right?

I'm certainly thankful that I live in a place that affords me that.

Life is not fair, I know that. I just fail to understand the attitude against RA over all and what's the point of it if you can't get anywhere to live with it!?

I'd love to move out of Dublin, I'd be lowering my job prospects then and is probably be 'leeching' off society for longer. You understand this catch 22?

ILIKEFOOD

MouseTail wrote: »

Landlords do not get tax back if they rent to RA recipients.

Didn't know that..

Jawgap

The LL is not taking advantage. He's put the place up at what he considers is a marketable rent - if he's wrong he'll have to reduce the rent or give up the SUV.

It's not his fault it's a rising market.

Do you think if the market was falling tenants would be offering to pay over the odds for a place because if they didn't they might be accused of taking advantage?

If you don't like it, don't pay and find somewhere else.

Larry Wildman

The (sad) truth of it is that RA recipients are more likely to wreck a landlord's property. I'm a landlord and I wouldn't dream of accepting RA. Somebody paying €1,300 from their own back pocket is a better bet than a social welfare recipient.

Jawgap

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

You understand that the college thing is to further my prospects of getting a job right?

I'm certainly thankful that I live in a place that affords me that.

Life is not fair, I know that. I just fail to understand the attitude against RA over all and what's the point of it if you can't get anywhere to live with it!?

I'd love to move out of Dublin, I'd be lowering my job prospects then and is probably be 'leeching' off society for longer. You understand this catch 22?

Not really. There is plenty of affordable accommodation outside Dublin.

You don't have to GO to college - college can come to you through distance learning and the internet (you can do PhDs by DL).

Btw - how would you be lowering your job prospects? Lots of people live way outside Dublin and still manage to find and maintain jobs

ILIKEFOOD

pwurple wrote: »

It's relevant when someone trots out some nonsense about non-working welfare recipients apparantly subsiding taxpayers.

Pardon me for calling bull when I see it.

I'm being a bit ridiculous here sure, I've worked and paid my share when I could...ill be back in work and back in the mill again soon, I don't feel like others are subsidising me greatly given that

Larry Wildman

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

Life is not fair, I know that

You know the funny thing is that life is fair.

You get out what you put in.

MagicMarker

hfallada wrote: »

LLs have huge amounts of taxes to pay. They have to pay USC, PAYE and now even PRSI on their rental income(even through they wont get the traditional benefits of PRSI such as unemployment benefit). LLs also now have to pay property tax. Plus they can only claim 75%mortgage interest relief against their taxes. Maybe LLs have sold up as they cant afford to carry out new regulations introduced such as getting rid of Pre 63s. Even if LLs increased their rents by 20% over the last few years, I imagine they are just covering the massive increases of taxes on them.

People seem to forget that LLs dont keep the quoted rent. There is mortgages, taxes, expenses and the wage they need for their time. The Irish resentment of LLs goes back to the famine. But most LLs only have a few properties and are trying to survive.

Bless their little hearts.

ILIKEFOOD

Seeing as I'm doing this for the first time (moving out as a couple), I'm aware I'm unlearned an inexperienced with the reality of this situation, it doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it..even if I come off as naive and self entitled

ILIKEFOOD

Larry Wildman wrote: »

You know the funny thing is that life is fair.

You get out what you put in.

I'd meet you half way on that.

Going back to college was the first step I took after losing the job, hopefully it will pay off

Larry Wildman

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

I'd meet you half way on that.

Going back to college was the first step I took after losing the job, hopefully it will pay off

Fair play to you.

What are you studying?

The_Conductor

Ok guys- I've had it.
The amount of sniping here is past ridiculous.

Thread closed.

OP- I hope you find somewhere reasonable to stay- but if you want to post here again- a little less attitude would be appreciated.

I'd suggest everyone read the forum's charter before commenting in similar type threads in future. Different people use this forum- landlords, tenants, rent allowance recipients, private renters etc etc etc. It is not acceptable to start a vendetta against any one of these groups. If you (all) don't cop on, I will take more assertive action than closing down a thread next time you misbehave.

Regards,

The_Conductor