Suitability of folding bikes for medium distance

smacl

Wondering how suitable a folding bike would be for ~40k cycle on country roads, typically with a single light pannier. Not looking to spend huge money, just something I can handily take on a train or bus that can be used to cover some distance at the far end without falling to bits. Main reason for considering a folder is to avoid the hit and miss nature of taking a bike on the train.

Looking at something like the carrera intercity which seems to get reasonable reviews. Any thoughts or recommendations?

JBokeh

We have a different one to that for a bit of gentle sightseeing. IMO they are made for flat roads at a gentle speed. The geometry is fairly bad no matter how you adjust it,but I saw a chap in cork with some drops on his and it looks to have made it more suitable for riding a better distance. It is heavy as hell too,but again not too noticeable if you're tipping away on the flat.

Thats fairly strong money halfords want for one,lots of bike shops tend to have them around the 250 mark I think

Edit: Just saw that it is alloy and 12kg,which isn't bad,around the same as a good full sus MTB,the one we have must be cast iron,i'd bet the thing weighs about 18kg

the.red.baron

is this for commuting? From where to where?

ford2600

Pretty sure I saw one or two folding bike on the mf1200. No idea of make though.

Qualitymark

Never mind how the bike will hold up; how will your back hold up to 40km on a bike with that riding position and steering.

smacl

the.red.baron wrote: »

is this for commuting? From where to where?

Plan is to cycle Ballyboden to train station, train to Wexford town, cycle to south Wexford. Making the return trip over a weekend typically twice a month during the winter. If I can take the extra day, I cycle the whole thing, but it is too long for a single overnight. I could shorten the cycle by taking the bus to New Ross, or train to Waterford and taking the Passage East ferry back. Last couple of times I've looked at getting the bike on the Wexford train there have been no spaces available.

smacl

Qualitymark wrote: »

Never mind how the bike will hold up; how will your back hold up to 40km on a bike with that riding position and steering.

Did the Wicklow 200 on a hybrid a couple of years ago and found it ok, and did the trip from Wexford a couple of months ago on a rented hybrid which was grand. Don't really know how much worse a folder would be, hence the question. Thinking something like a 26" wheel Dahon Espresso would possibly be better than a 20" wheel bike for potholed descents and have less twitchy steering.

CramCycle

ford2600 wrote: »

Pretty sure I saw one or two folding bike on the mf1200. No idea of make though.

I have met guys doing 1200s over 4 days with no ill effects and a couple of kgs of baggage.

Qualitymark wrote: »

Never mind how the bike will hold up; how will your back hold up to 40km on a bike with that riding position and steering.

Definietly trial one first, Bromptons are the favourites, not sure what the quality of the Halfords ones are.

rflynnr

I have a fairly high-end Dahon (a Mu). I've used it for a 14km (28km) round trip commute(laiden with panniers) and found it pretty ok but it is particularly light bike with decent wheels and tyres and a wide gear range. Furthermore, my feeling was that the 14km was near the limit of what was comfortable - obviously that reflected my limitations but I think it was exacerbated by the nature of the bike. The absence of a crossbar makes for a fair bit of flex and I unconsciously compensate for that by adopting a more rigid posture (in effect I take on the bracing function the crossbar would otherwise perform).

Having said that I once encountered a couple on the Dingle penisula using Dahons as touring bikes (fully laiden with front and rear panniers). They went up and over the Connor Pass which is no mean feat on a road bike so clearly long trips can be done.

the.red.baron

smacl wrote: »

Plan is to cycle Ballyboden to train station, train to Wexford town, cycle to south Wexford. Making the return trip over a weekend typically twice a month during the winter. If I can take the extra day, I cycle the whole thing, but it is too long for a single overnight. I could shorten the cycle by taking the bus to New Ross, or train to Waterford and taking the Passage East ferry back. Last couple of times I've looked at getting the bike on the Wexford train there have been no spaces available.

Then that bike and you should be able to handle that no problems.

On quality, take a look at it in the shop, that the only way to sus that really.

The only thing I can see wrong with it is the folding isn't that advanced, so it's not really that compact.

On something like the montague etc they just dont fold down small enough to be lugging around.

el tel

I once rode one of these for 50km over a mixture of road, forest trail, and farm tracks between Frättingsdorf and Ernstbrunn. No problemo.

Mefistofelino

ford2600 wrote: »

Pretty sure I saw one or two folding bike on the mf1200. No idea of make though.

There were at least two Moultons and an Airnimal Chameleon. I think a third Moulton pulled out on Day 1 with terminal wheel failure.

Moultons are not an uncommon sight on Audaxes in the UK so they're obviously up to the job, but with prices from around €1200 to €20,000 (yup - twenty thousand for a "Double-Pylon" model) they're probably not what the OP had in mind.

Unless he's Denis O'Brien.

cdaly_

the.red.baron wrote: »

The only thing I can see wrong with it is the folding isn't that advanced, so it's not really that compact.

The thing about bikes and trains is that you can take a folding bike on anytime but you risk being refused boarding with a non-folder. It doesn't matter at all how big the folded bike is, you still get to bring it.

smacl

Yep, was looking at the Moulton's online and had a sharp intake of breath when I saw the bottom line. The Airnimals aren't exactly a budget option either, though they do look rather nice. I'll have to try a spin on a couple of bikes with 20" wheels and no stem to see how they feel, but am leaning more towards a 26" wheel.

Ole Rodrigo

As cobbled together as the Irish train ' service ' is, would it not be better to work the system ? For example, I found you can call to book a ticket and reserve a bike slot ( I may have been lucky on both occasions ) while the online booking system had not yet released any of the seats and bike slots. It was over 2 weeks in advance though, and I got in early to make sure of the spaces.

In stark contrast is the NI Railways Belfast express, where there's a guards carriage up front for storing bikes, parcels over sized luggage etc. Just book a ticket and bring the bike - no fuss.

smacl

ror_74 wrote: »

As cobbled together as the Irish train ' service ' is, would it not be better to work the system ? For example, I found you can call to book a ticket and reserve a bike slot ( I may have been lucky on both occasions ) while the online booking system had not yet released any of the seats and bike slots. It was over 2 weeks in advance though, and I got in early to make sure of the spaces.

In stark contrast is the NI Railways Belfast express, where there's a guards carriage up front for storing bikes, parcels over sized luggage etc. Just book a ticket and bring the bike - no fuss.

The last three times I tried booking a bike space on-line for the Wexford train, there were none available. Might trying calling to see if that works out better, but don't really want to be reliant on what seems to be a very limited service. Given the Wexford train ends up in Rosslare, you get a lot of tourers using it and bike spaces seem hard to come by.

tomasrojo

I've done over 40km on a Brompton in a day in Dublin, pulling a trailer too. They're fine for medium distances.


David Henshaw's book Brompton Bicycle mentions a couple that crossed Switzerland's Furka Pass on Bromptons with standard six-speed gearing. They described the experience as "hard".

Lumen

ror_74 wrote: »

As cobbled together as the Irish train ' service ' is, would it not be better to work the system ? For example, I found you can call to book a ticket and reserve a bike slot ( I may have been lucky on both occasions ) while the online booking system had not yet released any of the seats and bike slots. It was over 2 weeks in advance though, and I got in early to make sure of the spaces.

Who the hell plans their life two weeks in advance? Not me, that's for sure.

I tried to book a bike on a train to Wexford a couple of months ago on the day of travel. The online booking system virtually laughed at my naivety.

CramCycle

Lumen wrote: »

Who the hell plans their life two weeks in advance? Not me, that's for sure.

I tried to book a bike on a train to Wexford a couple of months ago on the day of travel. The online booking system virtually laughed at my naivety.

Usually locks you out about 48hours before hand. I have stopped booking my bike as its always full even if no one else had pre-booked before you. I just sit near the area and fit my bike in the least annoying area for the ticket man.

Twice I have been stopped boarding, the first time I took off my two wheels, locked to the frame and carried through a minute later, the second, after a discussion he just told me I might have to get off if it turns out to be fully booked.

Ole Rodrigo

Lumen wrote: »

Who the hell plans their life two weeks in advance? Not me, that's for sure.

I tried to book a bike on a train to Wexford a couple of months ago on the day of travel. The online booking system virtually laughed at my naivety.

A rare burst of proactivity which is usually beaten down by bureaucracy!

CramCycle

ror_74 wrote: »

A rare burst of proactivity which is usually beaten down by bureaucracy!

The similarities between booking a bike on a train in Ireland and dealing with the Vogons is striking

Alek

CramCycle wrote: »

the Vogons

Thank you for solid thirty minutes of wiki-procrastination

Qualitymark

CramCycle wrote: »

The similarities between booking a bike on a train in Ireland and dealing with the Vogons is striking

Train booking in general is so. I went to book a train journey and book a seat recently, and it wouldn't let me book a seat without paying extra, despite the site referring to seats as free. So I gave up and rang up, and they explained that the extra cost for seat booking was for people using free travel passes. I wasn't claiming for any such pass… Anyway, booking on the phone got me the ticket cheaper than online, and with seats each way.

QueensGael

Would taking the bus to Wexford be an option, OP? I took my bike on the BE bus between Limerick and Tralee several times, no hassle, just stuck it in the luggage hold.

smacl

QueensGael wrote: »

Would taking the bus to Wexford be an option, OP? I took my bike on the BE bus between Limerick and Tralee several times, no hassle, just stuck it in the luggage hold.

Quite possibly, and something I should investigate. Reading the Bus Eireann website, their policy appears be that they'll take the bike there is room. While this is well and good, it makes planning a journey very awkward, as you could easily be refused carraige of the bike with no feasible alternative. From bus eireann website

Folding bicycles which are packed and wrapped in a suitable carrier bag/protective covering will be treated as passengers’ accompanied luggage and carried free of charge in the luggage storage area. Folding bicycles which are NOT packed or wrapped as described above will be charged at the full cycle rate.

Bicycles, prams and non-folding childrens' pushchairs will be carried only if sufficient accommodation is available; they must be placed in the luggage compartment or other designated area of the vehicle and are subject to a charge as determined by Bus Éireann from time to time.

Probably a matter of chatting to a Wexford bus driver and seeing whether there is typically ample space or not, and taking a punt on that basis.

Ole Rodrigo

Sure why cycle when there's more adventure to be had trying to get somewhere by public transport ??

Will I get there.. will they let me on...will I be fined for some arbitrary reason.. will they refuse my luggage..will their sambos kill me... - all pretty exciting actually

slap/dash

ror_74 wrote: »

Sure why cycle when there's more adventure to be had trying to get somewhere by public transport ??

Will I get there.. will they let me on...will I be fined for some arbitrary reason.. will they refuse my luggage..will their sambos kill me... - all pretty exciting actually

Always say "I just got on at broombridge"

route66

the.red.baron wrote: »

<SNIP>
On something like the montague etc they just dont fold down small enough to be lugging around.

I have a SwissBike X70 (link) in my collection. As above, with every folding bike, there are compromises. The Swissbike take on this is that the compromise is in the folded size; once back together, it offers an experience close to that of a non-folder.

Folded:


Unfolded:


When folded, it fits in a large and heavy bag. From their site:

• Folded Size: 36"x28"x12"
• Approx Weight: 29lbs

You wouldn't want to go for a long walk with the bag but it will fit in the boot of most cars. Taking the front wheel off - especially with disk brakes - is a bit of a pain, but tolerable.

They also make "pavement" bikes - e.g. the "fit" (link). These Swissbikes aren't cheap: RRP of the 2 above are in the €1.5K and above bracket :eek:


My X70 isn't used much. But as the Swiss Army Knife (as opposed to the Swissbike :pac:) of bikes, I should will hang on to it! I just have to remember not to do any € per KM calculations

Mefistofelino

There are a number of other possible options. S&S couplers allow a full sized frame to be broken down to a much more transportable size. However they are an expensive option and mean reworking an existing steel frame, buying a new one or trying to track down a Ritchey Breakaway.

A more interesting option is "Rinko" - a Japanese practice of breaking down bikes for taking on public transport. Bicycle Quarterly had a recent article on this including a photo of a full size randoneuring bike broken down to not much more than wheel - size in 12 minutes. The only "special" item I can see is a two part rear mudguard.

h ttp://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/rinko18.jpg

Qualitymark

If I were going to get a folding bike, and if I were eligible for the Bike to Work scheme, I'd only get a Brompton

By faaaar the best, with a satisfying way of folding up; you can wheel it along on its little wheels for a bit while folded, and you can put a good-sized bag on the carrier.

smacl

Qualitymark wrote: »

If I were going to get a folding bike, and if I were eligible for the Bike to Work scheme, I'd only get a Brompton

While I know many people rate them, I'm not sure that I fancy the 20" wheels and vertical forks with no stem. Swissbike or similar well build 26" wheeled folder would seem preferable over distance on poor roads. That said, I've yet to try one, so could be quite wrong. I don't really care whether it takes 30 seconds or two minutes to fold. Put an offer in on a 2nd hand Dahon Jack today which would be ideal.

beauf

Well it can be done...

http://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/476242-mountainbiking-colorado-my-2008-dahon-jetstream-xp.html
http://www.debcar.com/Story-BikeMechanical.htm

I picked up a second hand old 20" folder cheap and its really only suited to smooth paths. I've had to find a route that avoids cobbles, kerbs, grooves, potholes. Any rough stuff at all and it seems to put something out. The handling is very darty/abrupt. No problem with speed but it wouldn't be my first choice for country roads. Mine has 20x1.75 tyres and its a lot severe on rough surfaces than another bike we have on 20x2.0. But it so handy for throwing in the boot of the car, or on the train.

If I was doing medium/long trips I'd go with something with bigger wheels.

Qualitymark

I've used a monstrous heavy Japanese folder for cycling around Connamara, and it nearly kilt me.

the.red.baron

route66 wrote: »

I have a SwissBike X70 (link) in my collection. As above, with every folding bike, there are compromises. The Swissbike take on this is that the compromise is in the folded size; once back together, it offers an experience close to that of a non-folder.

Folded:


Unfolded:


When folded, it fits in a large and heavy bag. From their site:

• Folded Size: 36"x28"x12"
• Approx Weight: 29lbs

You wouldn't want to go for a long walk with the bag but it will fit in the boot of most cars. Taking the front wheel off - especially with disk brakes - is a bit of a pain, but tolerable.

They also make "pavement" bikes - e.g. the "fit" (link). These Swissbikes aren't cheap: RRP of the 2 above are in the €1.5K and above bracket :eek:


My X70 isn't used much. But as the Swiss Army Knife (as opposed to the Swissbike :pac:) of bikes, I should will hang on to it! I just have to remember not to do any € per KM calculations

I reckon you should sell it to someone you know who would make more use of it...

Also, it would appear to be a folded unicycle from the photos

CramCycle

SJS cycles have a sale on Bromptons at the minute.

Qualitymark

The only thing about that Swissbike, in contrast with the Brompton, is that you have to heft it along, puffing, when it's folded. The Brompton has little luggage wheels so you can fold it on a platform or pavement and wheel it along for a short time while folded.

Lumen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQscBxx7wLE

smacl

After some interesting feedback from idleater here I'm now also looking the possibility of a road bike or tourer that could easily be disassembled and packed in addition to folders. Very drawn to the Dahon Tournado, though the only option there seems to be a self build, based on importing a frame from the states. Some interesting discussion on bikeforums on people who did this, and I'm quite tempted.

My other main contender is the Montague Navigator, which seems like the most pragmatic solution to suit my needs (if not quite all of my desires). Don't much like where they've put the bottle cage mounting, though at a pinch I've no issue using a bottle in my jersey. Mediocre components that I'd probably replace over time possibly makes this an expensive option, though I always love the buzz of an upgrade, and already have a spare set of drop bars and shifters knocking about the place.

Not really that concerned how quick or easy the bike is to fold, just so long as it doesn't do it by itself unannounced on a descent. I really don't like the look of 20" wheels for a spin of few hours, though I should really try them rather than going on unsupported gut bias.

smacl

Qualitymark wrote: »

The only thing about that Swissbike, in contrast with the Brompton, is that you have to heft it along, puffing, when it's folded. The Brompton has little luggage wheels so you can fold it on a platform or pavement and wheel it along for a short time while folded.

Or you could just get or make a bag with little wheels attached, pretty much like most luggage these days. For my situation, the simpler option would be to just carry a suitable lock, and lock the bike rather than lug it if I wanted to go for a wander without sans velo.

Qualitymark

smacl wrote: »

Or you could just get or make a bag with little wheels attached, pretty much like most luggage these days. For my situation, the simpler option would be to just carry a suitable lock, and lock the bike rather than lug it if I wanted to go for a wander without sans velo.

Of course if you were getting a train and you were rale shnaky, you could get or make a big bag with little wheels, one that would fit the whole big bike, and see if you could get that on board.

Idleater

Qualitymark wrote: »

Of course if you were getting a train and you were rale shnaky, you could get or make a big bag with little wheels, one that would fit the whole big bike, and see if you could get that on board.

Or you could take off the front wheel and if told "you can't take that bike on here" deny that it's a bike, but a collection of bike parts :-)

smacl

Managed to book a rack space for the road bike on the Waterford train on Saturday. Or at least I though I had, as when the train pulled into Hueston, it didn't have any carriages with racks, and had to shoe horn the bike into a disabled space and was lucky to do so. Whatever about not having bike spaces available to book, letting people books spaces that don't exist is a joke. Train was jammed, and I'd guess anyone with a bike not getting on at the first stop would not get their bike on. My thinking now is that planning to take a bike on the train is only really viable off-peak. You might be lucky much of the time, but you may not be. Stiff letter of complaint sent to Irish rail customer services; it will be interesting to see if there is a response.

ted1

smacl wrote: »

Managed to book a rack space for the road bike on the Waterford train on Saturday. Or at least I though I had, as when the train pulled into Hueston, it didn't have any carriages with racks, and had to shoe horn the bike into a disabled space and was lucky to do so. Whatever about not having bike spaces available to book, letting people books spaces that don't exist is a joke. Train was jammed, and I'd guess anyone with a bike not getting on at the first stop would not get their bike on. My thinking now is that planning to take a bike on the train is only really viable off-peak. You might be lucky much of the time, but you may not be. Stiff letter of complaint sent to Irish rail customer services; it will be interesting to see if there is a response.

I was looking at getting a train from dun Laoighre to Dundalk. It was letting me book a bike when I noticed that I had to change from the Dart to commuter in Connolly, but you can't bring a bike on a dart at 7:30am. Their system needs work

beauf

Don't they have a disclaimer that full sized bikes are not facilitated at peak or when it's busy.

When commuting it would be impossible to bring a non folding bike on my trains. There's barely standing room a lot of the time. There's simply no room for non folder. When some suggest putting more people on trains and out of their cars I can only assume they haven't had to stand 9 out of 10 times they are on a train. Something that hasn't changed in 20yrs for me.

It's less hassle if you use a folder. There's always room for that. Tbh there's something appealing about using a folder bike on a non traditional route. It's just fun

piston

I've done 40 - 50 mile hilly rides on a 1970s Raleigh Twenty. Comfortable enough but would be definitely be easier on a large wheeled bike - just not as much as you might think. Just make sure you gear it low if there are hills involved.

smacl

piston wrote: »

I've done 40 - 50 mile hilly rides on a 1970s Raleigh Twenty. Comfortable enough but would be definitely be easier on a large wheeled bike - just not as much as you might think. Just make sure you gear it low if there are hills involved.

First bike I ever rode was a blue Raleigh 20 folder from the mid 70s. Mother bought it in a fit of gusto, never used it, so I adopted it. Three gear twist shift from memory, red for speed, green for straight ahead, and blue for hills.

piston

smacl wrote: »

First bike I ever rode was a blue Raleigh 20 folder from the mid 70s. Mother bought it in a fit of gusto, never used it, so I adopted it. Three gear twist shift from memory, red for speed, green for straight ahead, and blue for hills.

Don't underestimate the 20 folder. Raleigh geared them too high at the factory for some bizarre reason but stick a 18 or 20 tooth sprocket on one and they ride like a dream. The 451 wheelsize rolls much better than the BMX 406 wheels on most bikes of this type.

I still have the one I rode to school and it's the one bike I would never sell.

beauf

Lots of online galleries of modded Raleigh Twenties. Bit of cult following those bikes.

http://softyonabike.wordpress.com/tag/raleigh-twenty/