Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

keeponhurling

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

You're seeing things dude. Never once made that argument. And the fact you're trying to make it into that - I'm just going to leave it because you're clearly trying to win a losing argument.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h8tbWzxJfd0

Here's Roy Keane's opinion, he knows a thing or two about midfield play for United...

Backstreet Moyes

Carrick 5 league titles, 1 champions league and 31 caps for England,

Leon Britton 2 caps under 16 for England.

I don't know if Carricks agent shout be knighted or Britton's agent shot considering Britton's superiority.

UnitedIrishman

keeponhurling wrote: »

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h8tbWzxJfd0

Here's Roy Keane's opinion, he knows a thing or two about midfield play for United...

Calls his interview and performance flat.

Hardly an opinion on his football ability.

Anyways, Villa tomorrow.

LostBoy101

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Calls his interview and performance flat.

Hardly an opinion on his football ability.

Anyways, Villa tomorrow.

In fairness last season we were terrible and Roy Keane is right, it was flat.

Timmyctc

Dayum wrote: »

Actually, I'm just about to head out on the lash so this will probably be my last post but I'll see you gents tomorrow.

Careful not to cut yourself on all that edge you edgy mother****er.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

so your argument is based on the england international team getting beaten in a world cup match or whatever at the same time while Leon Britton is off on his summer holidays as he is not good enough to get a single england cap?

My argument is that he was good enough to play for England. In fact, I say that he was much better than the CMs that were selected ahead of him.

Small technical midfielders are almost universally ignored in England. English teams are nearly always out-passed by any decent opposition they meet. Those two facts are linked imo.

bangkok wrote: »

when wigan bid 750k for him, do you not think Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho would not have bid 1m if he was as good as you say he is?!

Alex Fergusen was one of the best managers ever, but he was not infallible. He admits himself that he never had as much success in Europe as he should have. There must have been a reason for that. I put forward that his blind-spot for the importance of having a DM who could keep possession moving in the right areas even when under pressure is the thing that held him back in Europe.

Arsene Wenger has proven beyond doubt that he is shíte at picking DMs. His team hasn't had a proper one for years.

Jose Mourinho generally plays a defensive style of football when the chips are down and so tends to favour a more workmanlike DM.

bangkok wrote: »

even one of the lower teams in the league, west ham, everton or villa?! why werent they interested, why did he go to sheff utd... i will tell you, because he is nowhere near the standard of Michael Carrick.

I've already told you. I don't believe that Engilsh teams/managers are good at judging central midfielders. The fact that English teams so regularly get out-passed by foreign opposition supports that case. So I don't view the workings of the English transfer market to be a good indicator of quality in central midfielders.

bangkok wrote: »

Pro F, in the last few days now you have said Britton is better than carrick and man uniteds team would "score more goals" if they dropped van persie!!!:eek:

There is nothing controversial about saying that Rooney and Mata playing together ahead of a balanced midfield might score more goals than having all of Rooney, RVP and Mata/Falcao stuffed into the same team. Of do you deny that balance of the team and complimentary partnerships are essential to a functioning attack?

Pro. F

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

You're seeing things dude. Never once made that argument. And the fact you're trying to make it into that - I'm just going to leave it because you're clearly trying to win a losing argument.

You are holding the fact that Britton never got signed for a big team as evidence that he is not as good as Carrick. A logical conclusion of that argument is that the big teams always sign the best players. When it comes to big English teams and central midfielders, I disagree.

I'm not trying to make the discussion about something that it isn't, I just disagree with one of the assumptions that your argument is based on.

Reports that fellani is out, wonder how the midfield will shape up now tomorrow.
Rojo is also out, rafael is available

Pro. F

IrishIrish wrote: »

I've always found your posts funny just because how ridiculously arrogant you are even when you are completely wrong. I wondered to myself what you could ever have done in your life to make you think your opinion on football matters is so superior to others. You have even argued in the past that some of the top managers in the world or top players in the world don't know what they are doing but you some how do. Then you posted this one day:

1: Its actually cringeworthy. The average footballer and manager will be exposed to more knowledge of the game in a week than you will get in your whole lifetime.

Its possible that in your own little world, with your own ideal way of playing football, where the defensive midfield just passes the ball 5 yards as quickly as possible that Britton could be the best defensive midfielder in the premier league but in the real world where managers are picking a team of players to try win as many points as possible Carrick is going to be picked ahead of Britton all day long! Do you think Carrick would be on the bench for Swansea because of Britton?

And before you say it, I don't always think i'm right about football opinions either, 2: but I rarely disagree with managers decisions because I can see what they are thinking. Obviously managers make mistakes too but you've got to think they made what they thought was the best decision at the time with the information they had. The top managers are the ones who make the most right decisions.

1: Mock me all you want, I think it's perfectly reasonable to be willing to form your own opinion on the subject that you spend so much of your spare time watching, studying and discussing.

Any week you turn on the telly you can see plenty of former or current professional players doing punditry and showing themselves to be fairly clueless about the game. They are exposed to it, but that doesn't mean they understand it, and blindly swallowing the opinions that the pros form just because they are pros is naive.

2: If you rarely disagree with manages' opinions then you must not have any opinion of your own on which styles of football are more effective, because there are lots of different styles of football and the managers make decisions based on the style they follow.

Hank Scorpio

Pro. F wrote: »

1: Mock me all you want, I think it's perfectly reasonable to be willing to form your own opinion on the subject that you spend so much of your spare time watching, studying and discussing.

How's Cleverley going at Villa

fuzzydunlop85

Wonder will van Gaal stick with Valencia or put rafael straight back in, think Valencia deserves to start based on his last few performances.

Think it's fair to say that the Prof has expressed a truly unpopular opinion.

Pro. F

nuxxx wrote: »

How's Cleverley going at Villa

Not too bad from the few games I've seen. He's still not going to be appreciated by the fans who have themselves convinced that he hides from the ball and so on, but you'll have that. With himself, Delph and Westwood they have a decent midfield, but I don't think Lambert is up to much, too cautious.

The fact that you try to mock me for expressing and defending an opinion is sad.

Hank Scorpio

Pro. F wrote: »

Not too bad from the few games I've seen. He's still not going to be appreciated by the fans who have themselves convinced that he hides from the ball and so on, but you'll have that. With himself, Delph and Westwood they have a decent midfield, but I don't think Lambert is up to much, too cautious.

The fact that you try to mock me for expressing and defending an opinion is sad.

Not trying to Mock you, you just seem very fast at dismissing other peoples opinions in an aggressive manner and when you come up with ludicrous claims like Leon Britton is better than Carrick and spend 3 or 4 pages all night defending it, it creates a head up your arse personality. You defended Cleverley fair enough but Mr Van Gaal seems to agree with the majority on here. Maybe its possible to be wrong, who'd have thunk it

Rayne Wooney

Its gas seeing Ando training with the first team you'd think Van Gaal would banish him to the reserves or something

Pro. F

nuxxx wrote: »

Not trying to Mock you, you just seem very fast at dismissing other peoples opinions in an aggressive manner and when you come up with ludicrous claims like Leon Britton is better than Carrick and spend 3 or 4 pages all night defending it, it creates a head up your arse scenario

You complain about me quickly and aggressively dismissing others' opinions and yet you proceed to do that exact thing yourself, calling my opinion on Britton vs Carrick "ludicrous" and saying I have my head up my arse.

Edit:

nuxxx wrote: »

You defended Cleverley fair enough but Mr Van Gaal seems to agree with the majority on here. Maybe its possible to be wrong, who'd have thunk it

I didn't see this edit to your post when I responded last night. LVG seems to favour work-rate and defensive ability over finesse in CMs often enough. He's been a fan of Van Bommel and Gustavo in the past. I'm not too concerned that his judgement on central midfielders differs to mine, judging by his history I would have expected it to.

Hank Scorpio

Pro. F wrote: »

You complain about me quickly and aggressively dismissing others' opinions and yet you proceed to do that exact thing yourself, calling my opinion on Britton vs Carrick "ludicrous" and saying I have my head up my arse.

I'm not gonna get dragged into a childish debate. People form opinions on others from their posting styles, and imo you have the most aggressive and ignorant style of posting in this thread. I check here every hour or so when I'm online to see any news and don't post as often as others, everytime I did tonight it was you arguing with others. When 99% of people make a point and others don't agree with it it ends quickly as a difference of opinion, with you, you have to answer every single reply and not give up until the point it spreads over several pages and people just get tired of listening to it.

Pro. F

nuxxx wrote: »

I'm not gonna get dragged into a childish debate. People form opinions on others from their posting styles, and imo you have the most aggressive and ignorant style of posting in this thread. I check here every hour or so when I'm online to see any news and don't post as often as others, everytime I did tonight it was you arguing with others. When 99% of people make a point and others don't agree with it it ends quickly as a difference of opinion, with you, you have to answer every single reply and not give up until the point it spreads over several pages and people just get tired of listening to it.

Well at least we are getting to the truth of what your issue is now. Your problem with me is that I respond to people I am debating things with more often than you would like. Tell you what, I'll run every post I plan to make past you in future by PM first. Just to make sure you're okay with what I'm posting.

Hank Scorpio

Pro. F wrote: »

Well at least we are getting to the truth of what your issue is now. Your problem with me is that I respond to people I am debating things with more often than you would like. Tell you what, I'll run every post I plan to make past you in future by PM first. Just to make sure you're okay with what I'm posting.

Yes, once against you're spot on, professor.

SherlockWatson

Since when is too much analysis a bad thing?


It sure beats the hell out of retarded meme's and other pointless shít that gets posted, if you don't agree with Pro.F, prove him wrong, don't just shout him down because you disagree with him.

Of course he's going to be snarky, the majority of people just deride him and put him down for having an opinion, rather than actually countering any of the points that he makes.

You are doing exactly what you are criticising him for doing, the only difference is he has an actual reason to do it.


E.G You've come into this discussion making shítty remarks including the one about Cleverley, why the fúck should Pro.F bother to take you seriously, you haven't even bothered to discuss the original point tbh.

Hank Scorpio

I said my piece, looking forward to today's games. Night chaps

RedemptionZ

Late to the party but I agree with Pro F regarding English teams and their avoidance of using smaller technical players in the midfield. And he was met with a lot of patronising replies despite a logical argument(I don't know if Britton is better but you can see where he's coming from, it's not like he said Britton does more tricks on the ball so he's better).

Carrick imo, doesn't belong in a top European club, nor did he ever. Disregarding the expectations on the club because of last season, was there ever a time you'd put Carrick in the same category as Schweinsteiger, Yaya, Kroos, entire Barca midfield etc? He's premier league level but that's it. And to be a top European club that's not good enough for your starting CM. Just my thoughts on it.

RayCun

Could argue British teams under value technical midfielders. To the extent that Britton only rose as far as Swansea? Unlikely. And what about foreign teams? Were juventus and leverkusen unaware of this cheap but brilliant midfielder, and so never made an offer?

Jesus some of the stuff posted recently... I thought it was an inside joke for a while that I wasn't in on. I'm still laughing though. :pac:

newballsplease

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Its gas seeing Ando training with the first team you'd think Van Gaal would banish him to the reserves or something

Yea what the hell is that about? He must be a favorite among the other players. Robbing a living at this stage. They should just release him .

The_Kew_Tour

newballsplease wrote: »

Yea what the hell is that about? He must be a favorite among the other players. Robbing a living at this stage. They should just release him .

Ya he really is overstaying his welcome.

Time to realise the wage bit a little

SherlockWatson

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Since when is too much analysis a bad thing?


It sure beats the hell out of retarded meme's and other pointless shít that gets posted, if you don't agree with Pro.F, prove him wrong, don't just shout him down because you disagree with him.

Of course he's going to be snarky, the majority of people just deride him and put him down for having an opinion, rather than actually countering any of the points that he makes.

You are doing exactly what you are criticising him for doing, the only difference is he has an actual reason to do it.


E.G You've come into this discussion making shítty remarks including the one about Cleverley, why the fúck should Pro.F bother to take you seriously, you haven't even bothered to discuss the original point tbh.

Nothing against anyone here because thats just ****ty.
I think the issue for me is that its relentless at times. I'm not doubting his knowledge because he seems to have a good bit of it and I normally agree with a lot of what's posted.
From my experience though we have had a few debates in the past where I have had an opinion on something and him the same. I share it try and defend it to an extent, but its exhausting debating with Pro F at times. I just give up now if it starts dragging on.
Also, agree to disagree should be OK once you both share your opinion IMO.
Now can we all just be happy... Its match day for Christ sakes...villa going to get the RVP smackdown

newballsplease

newballsplease wrote: »

Yea what the hell is that about? He must be a favorite among the other players. Robbing a living at this stage. They should just release him .

Is he even getting games with the reserves?

Cantona's Collars

Tweeted by Raf this morning:

Xenophile

Anywhere in Kilkenny City where the game is being shown today?