Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

even a naysayer when he was one of the top midfielders in Europe 2 years ago and wenger said he should have won player of the year?!

Carrick was never one of the top midfielders in Europe and Wenger is full of shít.

Spazdarn

Pro. F wrote: »

Carrick was never one of the top midfielders in Europe and Wenger is full of shít.

The premiership maybe, and I'd still have had Silva, Yaya and quite a few over him in my team over him, the year he won the award.

Europe, not at all.

Trond

Spazdarn wrote: »

The premiership maybe, and I'd still have had Silva, Yaya and quite a few over him in my team over him, the year he won the award.

Europe, not at all.

Carrick can do things neither of them can and visa versa.

Silva is a truly world class attacking midfielder but to say hes better than Carrick defensively is simply not true. Yaya isn't exactly top class defensively either. Hes pretty rash when tracking back and nowhere near as good at reading the game. Again he also happens to be world class heading the opposite direction when it suits him.

Spazdarn

Trond wrote: »

Carrick can do things neither of them can and visa versa.

Silva is a truly world class attacking midfielder but to say hes better than Carrick defensively is simply not true. Yaya isn't exactly top class defensively either. Hes pretty rash when tracking back and nowhere near as good at reading the game. Again he also happens to be world class heading the opposite direction when it suits him.

The original statement made by bangkok was best midfielder in Europe, not best defensive midfielder in Europe.

Yaya was an absolute beast up until his birthday pout... and he was pretty handy as a defensive midfielder for Barca too so it's not like he's just some attacking midfielder with no experience of the defensive side of things.

Trond

Spazdarn wrote: »

The original statement made by bangkok was best midfielder in Europe, not best defensive midfielder in Europe.

Yaya was an absolute beast up until his birthday pout... and he was pretty handy as a defensive midfielder for Barca too so it's not like he's just some attacking midfielder with no experience of the defensive side of things.

True but a defensive midfielder in that system is a bit easier than at United when you've Xavi and Iniesta beside you as opposed to who Carrick has had. Barca were quick to let him go when Busquets emerged as well...

bangkok

sorry, I should have stated, one of the best DEFENSIVE midfielders in Europe. If he played with Barcelona instead of Busquets he would have been viewed very differently by fans.

Spazdarn

Trond wrote: »

True but a defensive midfielder in that system is a bit easier than at United when you've Xavi and Iniesta beside you as opposed to who Carrick has had. Barca were quick to let him go when Busquets emerged as well...

Yeah Carrick didn't always have dross beside him though before 2011-2012 Scholes was still around, Hargreaves in what brief fleeting time he had at United performed better than Carrick too.

I get that Carrick stepped up when the other players were poor around him but being better than an unfit and poorly Fletcher, ageing Giggs, inexperienced Tom Cleverly and fat Anderson isn't that much of a compliment.

People have been complaining about the problems at CM at United for years and years now, surely if for some of those years Scholes was half of the pairing then it was Carrick that was disappointing?

Spazdarn

bangkok wrote: »

sorry, I should have stated, one of the best DEFENSIVE midfielders in Europe. If he played with Barcelona instead of Busquets he would have been viewed very differently by fans.

I don't think so. The Barcelona players in that midfield are very comfortable receiving the ball under pressure or back to goal and moving it along. That definitely isn't one of his skills, when given space he can do serious damage but pressed, he's far more ineffective.

So I don't think his skillset automatically slots into the Barca team..

Copper_pipe

Jingle bells,
Jingle bells,
Jingle all the way,
Oh what fun it is to see,
United win away


Hopefully be singing this tomorrow evening!

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

sorry, I should have stated, one of the best DEFENSIVE midfielders in Europe. If he played with Barcelona instead of Busquets he would have been viewed very differently by fans.

I agree there's no point in comparing defensive and attacking midfielders. But even if you just limit the comparison to other DMs he has still never been among the best Europe. Even DMs in the Premier League, which is probably the position with least quality in the league, Carrick has still always been far behind Leon Britton.

Gits_bone

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree there's no point in comparing defensive and attacking midfielders. But even if you just limit the comparison to other DMs he has still never been among the best Europe. Even DMs in the Premier League, which is probably the position with least quality in the league, Carrick has still always been far behind Leon Britton.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree there's no point in comparing defensive and attacking midfielders. But even if you just limit the comparison to other DMs he has still never been among the best Europe. Even DMs in the Premier League, which is probably the position with least quality in the league, Carrick has still always been far behind Leon Britton.

I presume you are joking?!

Will I Amnt

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree there's no point in comparing defensive and attacking midfielders. But even if you just limit the comparison to other DMs he has still never been among the best Europe. Even DMs in the Premier League, which is probably the position with least quality in the league, Carrick has still always been far behind Leon Britton.

Leon Britton is a nothing player, 32 years old, the pinnacle of his career being an often bit part player at a mid-table Premier League club, not even a sniff of an international cap.
It's bizarre how you keep banging on about him, are you the only one that sees this talent?

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

I presume you are joking?!

Nope. Britton is just as good defensively; not as good at long passing, but that is a less important skill for the position; and infinitely better at receiving the ball when pressed and playing out of trouble. He's been the best DM by miles in the league since he arrived.

Rayne Wooney

Was hoping to see Di Maria back but it looks like he might not even make the bench



I wonder will we ever be in for this man again, he's too good to stay at Juve, could see him at Madrid

https://vine.co/v/OgPPrWrUnMw

Lucas Hood

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Leon Britton is a nothing player, 32 years old, the pinnacle of his career being an often bit part player at a mid-table Premier League club, not even a sniff of an international cap.
It's bizarre how you keep banging on about him, are you the only one that sees this talent?

Loves Jack Cork too.

Pro. F

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Leon Britton is a nothing player, 32 years old, the pinnacle of his career being an often bit part player at a mid-table Premier League club, not even a sniff of an international cap.

And English footballing culture has proven itself to be competent at judging what's required to make a midfield work has it? Or have English teams in fact been almost universally shìte in midfield as evidenced by their general lack of ability to string a few passes together when pressed?

The fact that Britton has gone unrecognised outside of Swansea - where he has generally been hailed as their most important player - is just another symptom of how the English don't get what's important in a central midfielder. The same crowd that thought Lampard and Gerrard would make a good partnership and that Scholes should play on the wing.

Will I Amnt

Pro. F wrote: »

And English footballing culture has proven itself to be competent at judging what's required to make a midfield work has it? Or have English teams in fact been almost universally shìte in midfield as evidenced by their general lack of ability to string a few passes together when pressed?

The fact that Britton has gone unrecognised outside of Swansea - where he has generally been hailed as their most important player - is just another symptom of how the English don't get what's important in a central midfielder. The same crowd that thought Lampard and Gerrard would make a good partnership and that Scholes should play on the wing.

I suppose the elite teams in Spain have been beating his door down over the years so...

Pro. F

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Loves Jack Cork too.

He was very good last season and the one before. But he has gone very far backwards this season imo for some reason.

RasTa

Pro. F wrote: »

Nope. Britton is just as good defensively; not as good at long passing, but that is a less important skill for the position; and infinitely better at receiving the ball when pressed and playing out of trouble. He's been the best DM by miles in the league since he arrived.

Start a thread on this rubbish, rather not read it in here

Pro. F

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I suppose the elite teams in Spain have been beating his door down over the years so...

Or maybe the transfer market is not a perfect system. And it's not as if they are short of that type of player in Spain.

Pro. F

RasTa wrote: »

Start a thread on this rubbish, rather not read it in here

The last post you made in this thread was a weak ago. If you want to shape the topic of discussion in here then try making a contribution.

Will I Amnt

Pro. F wrote: »

Or maybe the transfer market is not a perfect system. And it's not as if they are short of that type of player in Spain.

I'm not getting into a long, drawn out argument that nobody wants to read. I think you are laughably wide of the mark with your assessment of Leon Britton and I'll leave it there.

Nalz

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Loves Jack Cork too.

catermole would add more to our squad than leon britton

There, I said it

and no i'm not trolling

Your Airbag

Carrick is an awesome player and has been great for UTD. He's not a dazzling player with bags of skill, he goes about his job quitely and very well, his positional play at his best is very good and his passing ability is massively underrated.

He is massively underated as a player in general. I'm not saying he is an Iniesta, Xavi or Scholes but as happened with Busquets people tend to rate the flair players and put down the safety men. Pep had to defend Sergio many times about how important he is to Barca, I believe the quote was "if you watch football you don't see Busquets but if you watch Busquets you see football". Its similar with Carrick, his talents aren't easily noticeable.

When I see people not rate Carrick as a very good player I tend to dismiss any other opinion they have on football as they don't see the game within the game.

RasTa

Pro. F wrote: »

The last post you made in this thread was a weak ago. If you want to shape the topic of discussion in here then try making a contribution.

Far too busy for that, however having to read that Leon Briton is the best DM in the PL annoyed me enough to tell you to stop.

IrishIrish

Your Airbag wrote: »

When I see people not rate Carrick as a very good player I tend to dismiss any other opinion they have on football as they don't see the game within the game.

This. Ridiculous how many years this debate has gone on and how many ex players, top players and current united players who have said how good he is but fans still can't see it. Even today I saw RVP picking him in his United 5 aside team as the only defensive player alongside himself, Rooney, Ralcao and De Gea.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Carrick is an awesome player and has been great for UTD. He's not a dazzling player with bags of skill, he goes about his job quitely and very well, his positional play at his best is very good and his passing ability is massively underrated.

He is massively underated as a player in general. I'm not saying he is an Iniesta, Xavi or Scholes but as happened with Busquets people tend to rate the flair players and put down the safety men. Pep had to defend Sergio many times about how important he is to Barca, I believe the quote was "if you watch football you don't see Busquets but if you watch Busquets you see football". Its similar with Carrick, his talents aren't easily noticeable.

When I see people not rate Carrick as a very good player I tend to dismiss any other opinion they have on football as they don't see the game within the game.

Yeah, Britton is a real flair player.

Pro. F

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I'm not getting into a long, drawn out argument that nobody wants to read. I think you are laughably wide of the mark with your assessment of Leon Britton and I'll leave it there.

And I you.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah, Britton is a real flair player.

Never mentioned Britton or your opinion on him. That made zero sense.