"British man jailed for four months in Morocco ‘for being gay’"

bodice ripper

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Are you suggesting that such relationships are always exploitative?

I am suggesting that I wouldn't think highly of the older person involved.

Ambersky

I don’t know why women have such a different experience of Sex Tourism other than perhaps the fact that statistically women are, in the majority of cases, on the sex object side of that situation.
If you include all males and all females and don’t just keep it to gay relationships Sex Tourism can include getting involved with issues of child abduction, slavery, coercion, violence and a whole world of nastiness. I think gay male sex tourism may be a bit different, I say may I dont know I think it avoids some of the more negative aspects but all Im trying to understand here is whats happening for gay males on the subject especially as it does come up every so often.

I would guess that Suicide Circus including that link was making an attempt to draw parallels between female and male sex tourism by merely presenting the fact of its existence but even then the article was mainly about how different and how less frequent Female Sex Tourism is to Male Sex Tourism in general, even when you include all women heterosexual and homosexual, in fact there was no mention of Lesbian Sex Tourism. Is that correct Suicide Circus or were you saying something else.

I don’t know of any country in the world, not even any developing country where retired lesbians can go and be pursued by hot young lesbians on the street. You could go looking for sex workers who service women as well as men I suppose but gay men seem to believe that the young men offering to be with them for a holiday romance are not sex workers, just very friendly local lads who find them irresistable.

The lack of young lesbians out on the street may be due to the fact that in developing countries young women are usually much more curtailed and controlled than are the young men. It does seem unfair that western gay men seemed to get on so well in cultures where women were most suppressed and where the local men are said to be tolerated having sex with other men because they cant have sex with the women.
Even up to the present day life for a Moroccan woman and man is very different, the law that allowed a rapist to get off charges if he married his victim was only changed this year. In 2012 there was an international protest about a young Moroccan women who killed herself because she was being forced to marry her rapist. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-25855025

I don’t know if it is because of nature or circumstances that lesbians and gay men have such a different experience of or perhaps even a different attitude to Sex Tourism.
Personally I think western gay men sound like naïve romantics at times believing in the probability that the poor young man that found them on the internet probably loves the retired westerner until it is proven that he doesn’t or that he actually is in it because of what the older man has to offer materially.
Id go with that idea only a little more than the idea that the Nigerian business man really wants to give me money in exchange for hiding some of his money in my bank account. I mean maybe he is genuine and maybe it does happen sometime, there are an awful lot of Nigerian businessmen and some of them Im sure are very nice. The story sounds very different when you are thinking with your head doesnt it.

Cole and Nass (not his real name) had met online six months earlier, after the Briton had joined a group on Facebook. “I can’t remember the name of it,

Im curious about the name of that facebook page as I would imagine it could tell us more about what Cole was looking for. It does seem a bit strange forgetting so soon the name of the site you first met the lover you are willing to go to prison over.

And the surprise that you could find yourself linked with suggestions of pedophilia. Why is there ever any surprise? Im a lot older than 22 myself and I don’t think I could tell the difference between a 17 year old telling me s/he is really 22 particularly if I didn’t come from her culture and s/he was a different colour to me and s/he was trying to look older.
If you are a lot older and you meet someone online who lives in a country with a high incidence of Sex Tourism how do you expect to know anything about the background of this person. If you are arrested it wont be about whether you knew the person was underage or not, it wont matter what you thought or knew. Yes I know its pederasty not pedophillia but dont we know by now that the rest of the world bar some gay men dont really see much difference once the person is under the legal age and it can put you in jail and give you a record as a sex offender even if they did do it in ancient greece.

floggg

Ambersky wrote: »

I don’t know why women have such a different experience of Sex Tourism other than perhaps the fact that statistically women are, in the majority of cases, on the sex object side of that situation.
If you include all males and all females and don’t just keep it to gay relationships Sex Tourism can include getting involved with issues of child abduction, slavery, coercion, violence and a whole world of nastiness. I think gay male sex tourism may be a bit different, I say may I dont know I think it avoids some of the more negative aspects but all Im trying to understand here is whats happening for gay males on the subject especially as it does come up every so often.

I would guess that Suicide Circus including that link was making an attempt to draw parallels between female and male sex tourism by merely presenting the fact of its existence but even then the article was mainly about how different and how less frequent Female Sex Tourism is to Male Sex Tourism in general, even when you include all women heterosexual and homosexual, in fact there was no mention of Lesbian Sex Tourism. Is that correct Suicide Circus or were you saying something else.

I don’t know of any country in the world, not even any developing country where retired lesbians can go and be pursued by hot young lesbians on the street. You could go looking for sex workers who service women as well as men I suppose but gay men seem to believe that the young men offering to be with them for a holiday romance are not sex workers, just very friendly local lads who find them irresistable.

The lack of young lesbians out on the street may be due to the fact that in developing countries young women are usually much more curtailed and controlled than are the young men. It does seem unfair that western gay men seemed to get on so well in cultures where women were most suppressed and where the local men are said to be tolerated having sex with other men because they cant have sex with the women.
Even up to the present day life for a Moroccan woman and man is very different, the law that allowed a rapist to get off charges if he married his victim was only changed this year. In 2012 there was an international protest about a young Moroccan women who killed herself because she was being forced to marry her rapist. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-25855025

I don’t know if it is because of nature or circumstances that lesbians and gay men have such a different experience of or perhaps even a different attitude to Sex Tourism.
Personally I think western gay men sound like naïve romantics at times believing in the probability that the poor young man that found them on the internet probably loves the retired westerner until it is proven that he doesn’t or that he actually is in it because of what the older man has to offer materially.
Id go with that idea only a little more than the idea that the Nigerian business man really wants to give me money in exchange for hiding some of his money in my bank account. I mean maybe he is genuine and maybe it does happen sometime, there are an awful lot of Nigerian businessmen and some of them Im sure are very nice. The story sounds very different when you are thinking with your head doesnt it.


Im curious about the name of that facebook page as I would imagine it could tell us more about what Cole was looking for. It does seem a bit strange forgetting so soon the name of the site you first met the lover you are willing to go to prison over.

And the surprise that you could find yourself linked with suggestions of pedophilia. Why is there ever any surprise? Im a lot older than 22 myself and I don’t think I could tell the difference between a 17 year old telling me s/he is really 22 particularly if I didn’t come from her culture and s/he was a different colour to me and s/he was trying to look older.
If you are a lot older and you meet someone online who lives in a country with a high incidence of Sex Tourism how do you expect to know anything about the background of this person. If you are arrested it wont be about whether you knew the person was underage or not, it wont matter what you thought or knew. Yes I know its pederasty not pedophillia but dont we know by now that the rest of the world bar some gay men dont really see much difference once the person is under the legal age and it can put you in jail and give you a record as a sex offender even if they did do it in ancient greece.

Sorry, but yes you can tell the difference between 16 and 22. There is massive gap, and there is nothing at all peadophilic about dating a 22 year old.

While I accept the link to the sex tourism part was accurate on the facts of the case, there is nothing to merit any accusation of peadophilia or peadophillic behaviour.

And in the absence of credible reports or evidence to suggest sex tourism was a concern, the accusation should not have been made.

As for older men and younger foreign guys, yes there is likely a number of cases where it is primarily financially driven.

However I know a number of young Irish guys who are only into what could be described as very mature to elderly men (and some pretty hot young men too at that) so it is not really all that unheard of or uncommon.

And I do think adult gay male sex tourism is very different from other types of sex tourism because there isn't the same imbalance of power.

I would imagine male sex workers are less likely to be coerced, less likely to be raped, robbed, beaten etc. In fact, in many cases I would say the balance of power lies with the male sex worker.

I don't personally have any issue with the sex part of sex work, but us the imbalance of power, risk of coercion, violence etc that I'm against.

Not that I would ever use a sex worker (i couldn't get off without a feeling of being genuinely wanted) but I do think legalisation is the way to go so that you can control and reduce those risks. You certainly aren't stopping sex work, and I'd rather it be legal and regulated than illegal, underground and without any protection or checks in place.

Ambersky

flogg says
Sorry, but yes you can tell the difference between 16 and 22. There is massive gap,

You may see a massive gap and thats great but Im afraid others dont seem to always be able to see it.
As I said I couldnt rely on Myself to tell the difference between a 17 year old and a 22 year old especially if that person was of a different colour and culture than me and s/he was trying to look younger.
I do think that within our own culture it is a bit easier to tell age differences and there is more of an opportunity to check someone out than if you just land in a foreign country and are relying on what s/he chooses to present as the truth about themselves.

I think it gets harder to tell the difference as you get older and are further away from the youths age group and we have been talking about an incidence where the older man was at least 40 years older than the younger man.
People of a simular age group are more in tune with telling the fine differences in one another. Leaving aside the morals for a moment there are huge risks in Sex Tourism that people should be aware of. Some of the risks are having sex with someone in a country where homosexuality is illegal especially with a youth who is actually from that country because being a westerner is not necessarily a get out of jail card and your partner is probably even more vulnerable than you. Even where gay sex is legal if it is youths you are having sex with telling whos of a legal age in that country and whos not, is fraught with danger in my opinion.

Im not alone in this not always being able to tell the age of youths as it seems to be quite a common defense for those caught with someone underage.
For example the two high profile cases that have come up in recent years in the Irish press involved at least one man claiming he did not know the young man was underage, in this case he claims he did not know the youth was 15

THE ex-lover of former presidential candidate David Norris claims he did not know the 15-year-old boy he had sex with was underage

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-am-not-a-paedophile-says-norris-expartner-26758176.html

In the case of the gay poet I dont think he claims not to know the youths were as young as 16 instead he argues their willingness saying the door was always open. I have to tell you I have met several pedophiles and one of the things I noticed was that to a man, they argued about how different the kind of sex they engaged in was different than what happens with the usual kind of sex offender. School books were among the gifts O'Searcaigh gave to these youths. I kind of think once your buying them school books its kind of a warning sign they may be a bit young, wouldnt you.
http://www.sceala.com/phpBB2/irish-forums-24245.html