Tractor and loader Vs loading shovel

dar31

my long suffering moffett loading shovel is facing into a €5k repair bill before soon. changing it is becoming more of an option now due to its unreliability.

what is the best option, is it a tractor and loader or a loading shovel/telehandler.
the main tractor is 85hp and has a loader on it.
we feed roughly 1700t of silage/mz year and about 300 bales, there are two yards on the farm the main yard is mainly feed using keenan feeder daily, and the second is 1.3km across the farm and is feed every second day into ring feeders and a feed barrier.
most machinery work is contracted, but we do fert, topping/mowing (not pit silage) about 20% slurry and all the other small jobs.
thoughts..

blue5000

What is the 85hp tractor?

Newer tractor transmissions have moved on a lot since your moffat was built, shuttle gearbox, clutchless gearchange etc. A 2nd tractor with a loader gives you more flexibility.

What is your budget like?

dar31

Mf 4245 and loader
Trade moffett plus €40 ish
Prefare to have two machines capable of feeding incase of break down

Greengrass1

If ye go for a loading shovel go for a jcb.
Know a man in inch who bought an old jcb off army and resprayed it yellow. Was a fine job and cheap too. Id say you know him too.
A tractor and loader is a good combination though.

Miname

When I red loading shovel, I was thinking Volvo bm or such. They would fairly open the front of any shed.

st1979

You have a versatile machine already in the massey with loader. why buy another versatile machine. get a dedicated loader and keep the tractor loader. when you say loading shovel I reckon you could also be thinking teleporter as well. If it was me I would probably look at telescopic as you can use bigger grab and buckets than tractor plus more height and reach than loading shovel. and at your scale you old easily justify one

stanflt

Had a lone of a jcb 526 teleporter last week and boy was I impressed with it

Had a jcb426 in at the maize and she is just too akward no good for tight yards


Priced a new teleporter on Friday- big money but I would have it for ten years

Midfield9

Have a teleporter here and there just a gift of a machine. A second tracter might be handy now and again but I wouldn't do without a teleporter now. There just so handy around the yard. No comparison with a loader tracter and I've driven a few tidy ones over the last few years. They just feel so awkward and slow.

dar31

ya, when i said loading shovel i was mainly thinking of a teleporter or the likes of a jcb 412 or tm 300/310 range

stanflt

dar31 wrote: »

ya, when i said loading shovel i was mainly thinking of a teleporter or the likes of a jcb 412 or tm 300/310 range

Avoid 412 type machines- fat to akward

dar31

stanflt wrote: »

Had a lone of a jcb 526 teleporter last week and boy was I impressed with it

Had a jcb426 in at the maize and she is just too akward no good for tight yards


Priced a new teleporter on Friday- big money but I would have it for ten years

what hp is the 526 and how did it fair for power, what year was it, and was it a single joystick controller.
what areas of it you find impressive, and how stable was it, as our yard is on the side of a hill.
what did you price for and how much, would you consider fresh second hand,
pm me if you want

Zr105

If most of your work is contracted and the current tractor manages the rest Id definitly go a telescopic, their built to lift big weight all day every day where as no matter what a tractor is always going to be an adaption really. You'd need to be into a big tractor to be handling 2ton on a loader day in day out, where as most telescopics would be rated well over 2ton and are an awful lot more manoeuvreable.

As for pivot steer vs rigid chassis the fact the yard is on a slope would swing me towards rigid chassis, from driving a loading shovel you find they can get a bit excited tipping out a big bucket when your lock around facing down a hill as most of the weight is to the side rather than hanging directly out behind the boom.

The rigid will also have the major plus of a very low cab height, good for both low sheds and for jumping in and out of it. Boom length will also be slightly better, most start from 6m whilst pivot steer tele's like the tm300 are only around 5m I think, and I wouldn't be overly surprised if the likes of a 412 was tight enough reach wise filling a diet feeder..

The cons of the rigid tho are their very blind to the right when compared to the artic steer where your sitting much higher looking down over the work.

dar31

what are the options in the lines of a teleporter.
has anyone bought from the north or england, and how did you go about researching machine and dealers

frazzledhome

Whatever you buy do not buy a Manipoo, complete dung

sucklerlover

dar31 wrote: »

my long suffering moffett loading shovel is facing into a €5k repair bill before soon. changing it is becoming more of an option now due to its unreliability.

what is the best option, is it a tractor and loader or a loading shovel/telehandler.
the main tractor is 85hp and has a loader on it.
we feed roughly 1700t of silage/mz year and about 300 bales, there are two yards on the farm the main yard is mainly feed using keenan feeder daily, and the second is 1.3km across the farm and is feed every second day into ring feeders and a feed barrier.
most machinery work is contracted, but we do fert, topping/mowing (not pit silage) about 20% slurry and all the other small jobs.
thoughts..

I know a guy with a merlo. He's very happy with. Think he said there's a 40k box which suits him cos he have an out farm. They seem popular in the uk. Don't know what parts r like. Manitou parts r expensive.

GRASSorMUCK

frazzledhome wrote: »

Whatever you buy do not buy a Manipoo, complete dung

Had a demo of a 4 ton lift 7m boom last year, could lock out the boom 6ft in the air boom extended 5ft with an empty carriage. Recalibrated by dealer still the same, something that is very dangerous on new 'safer' machines

yellow50HX

The choice will depend on your budget and you want from it.

Modern tractor and loaders are comparable with loaders with the clutchless transmission, hydraulics and loader chassis.

To be honest loaders are far superior to tractors of the same age and cost. Would you be interested in a digger? I know from my own experience that they are great and for people used to a tractor it's not a huge chance in driving style. You would suprised how often you use the back actor.

If your happy with your current tractor and it does all the tractor work you require if would get a digger or pivot telescopic loader.

Hugh 2

frazzledhome wrote: »

Whatever you buy do not buy a Manipoo, complete dung

If you mean Manitou I would disagree
I believe JCB are highly overrated and overpriced

stanflt

dar31 wrote: »

what hp is the 526 and how did it fair for power, what year was it, and was it a single joystick controller.
what areas of it you find impressive, and how stable was it, as our yard is on the side of a hill.
what did you price for and how much, would you consider fresh second hand,
pm me if you want

2006 single control
was loading uphill into a silage trailer no problem and very stable
newholland 6m is 65+vat with ac and hitch

Greengrass1

stanflt wrote: »

2006 single control
was loading uphill into a silage trailer no problem and very stable
newholland 6m is 65+vat with ac and hitch

Neighbour has NH very happy with it. Thought it was very like a mani though

frazzledhome

Hugh 2 wrote: »

If you mean Manitou I would disagree
I believe JCB are highly overrated and overpriced

Have you ever owned and tried to keep a Manitou going?

Reggie.

sucklerlover wrote: »

I know a guy with a merlo. He's very happy with. Think he said there's a 40k box which suits him cos he have an out farm. They seem popular in the uk. Don't know what parts r like. Manitou parts r expensive.

No good to pull trailers tho

Hugh 2

frazzledhome wrote: »

Have you ever owned and tried to keep a Manitou going?

We never have had a tractor loader here always diggers major ( first one I remember) then 2 fords and then a site master
As I am a one man operation I found that when I needed to do a lot of the back actor work I might as well get someone in while I drive the trailer/dumper .
2006 bought 4 year old MLA ( Manitou articulated pivot steer) great tidy machine
Really loved it able to get straw in and dung out of tight sheds ( I would not recommend the machine for use with a young lad with a bit recklessness in him you just can't fly around the years with the bucket/grab extended up in the air.

At the time I considered the JCB ( articulated just 2 big/aquard ) and Its had no interest in a tiny cab side boomed machine ( Manitou or otherwise)

In the 8/9 years I had it it was trouble free a few hoses a few punctures a battery and leaky water pump and a ungreased universal joint in the drive line to front axle broke ( worked away as a 2 wheel drive vehicle for awhile after that)were the only problems I had with it.
(the exhaust gave bother before But was fixed before I got it.)


For me I would recommend looking at this type of machine I only changed because I had a list of things that needed doing made buying a new one too good to resist.

Hugh 2

frazzledhome wrote: »

Have you ever owned and tried to keep a Manitou going?

We never have had a tractor loader here always diggers major ( first one I remember) then 2 fords and then a site master
As I am a one man operation I found that when I needed to do a lot of the back actor work I might as well get someone in while I drive the trailer/dumper .
2006 bought 4 year old MLA ( Manitou articulated pivot steer) great tidy machine
Really loved it able to get straw in and dung out of tight sheds ( I would not recommend the machine for use with a young lad with a bit recklessness in him you just can't fly around the years with the bucket/grab extended up in the air.

At the time I considered the JCB ( articulated just 2 big/aquard ) and Its had no interest in a tiny cab side boomed machine ( Manitou or otherwise)

In the 8/9 years I had it it was trouble free a few hoses a few punctures a battery and leaky water pump and a ungreased universal joint in the drive line to front axle broke ( worked away as a 2 wheel drive vehicle for awhile after that)were the only problems I had with it.
(the exhaust gave bother before But was fixed before I got it.)


For me I would recommend looking at this type of machine I only changed because I had a list of things that needed doing made buying a new one too good to resist.

frazzledhome

Hugh 2 wrote: »

We never have had a tractor loader here always diggers major ( first one I remember) then 2 fords and then a site master
As I am a one man operation I found that when I needed to do a lot of the back actor work I might as well get someone in while I drive the trailer/dumper .
2006 bought 4 year old MLA ( Manitou articulated pivot steer) great tidy machine
Really loved it able to get straw in and dung out of tight sheds ( I would not recommend the machine for use with a young lad with a bit recklessness in him you just can't fly around the years with the bucket/grab extended up in the air.

At the time I considered the JCB ( articulated just 2 big/aquard ) and Its had no interest in a tiny cab side boomed machine ( Manitou or otherwise)

In the 8/9 years I had it it was trouble free a few hoses a few punctures a battery and leaky water pump and a ungreased universal joint in the drive line to front axle broke ( worked away as a 2 wheel drive vehicle for awhile after that)were the only problems I had with it.
(the exhaust gave bother before But was fixed before I got it.)


For me I would recommend looking at this type of machine I only changed because I had a list of things that needed doing made buying a new one too good to resist.

Did you buy another Manitou

Had 2 from new here. First bought 06 went well for a while. 1000 hours a year nothing excessive. Build quality was poor, poor quality hyd hoses, electrics a disaster. Always needed a repair man needed when loader had any big work to do.

Changed in 10 for another new one and by god what a pile of shyte. On day of delivery new starter. Within 6mths new back axel as was out of line, new cab mountings. Boom regularly got stick while extended. Safety plug in soft ride blew causing loader to drop to the ground with full shear grab. New hyd pump, turbo several head gaskets as well as aircon never working. I could go on but it was a heap of crap. Dealer was middling but it took a threat if court for Manitou to extend warranty. At that when we sold it we still had a bull got 7k with dealer, now that to be fair was sorted between us and dealer. A lot in out area all being sold and not replaced with Manitou

We bought a JCB 310s in May 13. Now that's a machine, will fit anywhere the Manipoo would but with 4 times the output and 100% reliable. Have a look at the build quality and the thickness of the steel plate on headstock and chassis and there's no comparison.

A big issue with Manipoo was getting someone to trade it, no dealer wanted it. Take my advice and buy a Darby sprong before you consider a Manipoo

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

Did you buy another Manitou

Had 2 from new here. First bought 06 went well for a while. 1000 hours a year nothing excessive. Build quality was poor, poor quality hyd hoses, electrics a disaster. Always needed a repair man needed when loader had any big work to do.

Changed in 10 for another new one and by god what a pile of shyte. On day of delivery new starter. Within 6mths new back axel as was out of line, new cab mountings. Boom regularly got stick while extended. Safety plug in soft ride blew causing loader to drop to the ground with full shear grab. New hyd pump, turbo several head gaskets as well as aircon never working. I could go on but it was a heap of crap. Dealer was middling but it took a threat if court for Manitou to extend warranty. At that when we sold it we still had a bull got 7k with dealer, now that to be fair was sorted between us and dealer. A lot in out area all being sold and not replaced with Manitou

We bought a JCB 310s in May 13. Now that's a machine, will fit anywhere the Manipoo would but with 4 times the output and 100% reliable. Have a look at the build quality and the thickness of the steel plate on headstock and chassis and there's no comparison.

A big issue with Manipoo was getting someone to trade it, no dealer wanted it. Take my advice and buy a Darby sprong before you consider a Manipoo

+1. Good post.
French manufactured shyte.

stanflt

frazzledhome wrote: »

Did you buy another Manitou

Had 2 from new here. First bought 06 went well for a while. 1000 hours a year nothing excessive. Build quality was poor, poor quality hyd hoses, electrics a disaster. Always needed a repair man needed when loader had any big work to do.

Changed in 10 for another new one and by god what a pile of shyte. On day of delivery new starter. Within 6mths new back axel as was out of line, new cab mountings. Boom regularly got stick while extended. Safety plug in soft ride blew causing loader to drop to the ground with full shear grab. New hyd pump, turbo several head gaskets as well as aircon never working. I could go on but it was a heap of crap. Dealer was middling but it took a threat if court for Manitou to extend warranty. At that when we sold it we still had a bull got 7k with dealer, now that to be fair was sorted between us and dealer. A lot in out area all being sold and not replaced with Manitou

We bought a JCB 310s in May 13. Now that's a machine, will fit anywhere the Manipoo would but with 4 times the output and 100% reliable. Have a look at the build quality and the thickness of the steel plate on headstock and chassis and there's no comparison.

A big issue with Manipoo was getting someone to trade it, no dealer wanted it. Take my advice and buy a Darby sprong before you consider a Manipoo

What about dieci

frazzledhome

stanflt wrote: »

What about dieci

No ex can't comment.

dar31

Hugh 2 wrote: »

We never have had a tractor loader here always diggers major ( first one I remember) then 2 fords and then a site master
As I am a one man operation I found that when I needed to do a lot of the back actor work I might as well get someone in while I drive the trailer/dumper .
2006 bought 4 year old MLA ( Manitou articulated pivot steer) great tidy machine
Really loved it able to get straw in and dung out of tight sheds ( I would not recommend the machine for use with a young lad with a bit recklessness in him you just can't fly around the years with the bucket/grab extended up in the air.

At the time I considered the JCB ( articulated just 2 big/aquard ) and Its had no interest in a tiny cab side boomed machine ( Manitou or otherwise)

In the 8/9 years I had it it was trouble free a few hoses a few punctures a battery and leaky water pump and a ungreased universal joint in the drive line to front axle broke ( worked away as a 2 wheel drive vehicle for awhile after that)were the only problems I had with it.
(the exhaust gave bother before But was fixed before I got it.)



For me I would recommend looking at this type of machine I only changed because I had a list of things that needed doing made buying a new one too good to resist.

no need for a digger/back actor as i have a 12t track machine, it will roll the silage pit but not much good for feeding cows....

jcb 526-56 or a dieci 26.6, would consider a merlo from the uk but a bit dubious about parts and service here.
never heard much good about manitou, got a bit of a slating here, so closed down all the tabs for manitou


edit. just opened the indo, and merlo have agents in tipp and dublin

Reggie.

dar31 wrote: »

no need for a digger/back actor as i have a 12t track machine, it will roll the silage pit but not much good for feeding cows....

jcb 526-56 or a dieci 26.6, would consider a merlo from the uk but a bit dubious about parts and service here.
never heard much good about manitou, got a bit of a slating here, so closed down all the tabs for manitou


edit. just opened the indo, and merlo have agents in tipp and dublin

Merlo ain't a bad machine. Drove one for a few days in the summer

eric prydz

frazzledhome wrote: »

Did you buy another Manitou

Had 2 from new here. First bought 06 went well for a while. 1000 hours a year nothing excessive. Build quality was poor, poor quality hyd hoses, electrics a disaster. Always needed a repair man needed when loader had any big work to do.

Changed in 10 for another new one and by god what a pile of shyte. On day of delivery new starter. Within 6mths new back axel as was out of line, new cab mountings. Boom regularly got stick while extended. Safety plug in soft ride blew causing loader to drop to the ground with full shear grab. New hyd pump, turbo several head gaskets as well as aircon never working. I could go on but it was a heap of crap. Dealer was middling but it took a threat if court for Manitou to extend warranty. At that when we sold it we still had a bull got 7k with dealer, now that to be fair was sorted between us and dealer. A lot in out area all being sold and not replaced with Manitou

We bought a JCB 310s in May 13. Now that's a machine, will fit anywhere the Manipoo would but with 4 times the output and 100% reliable. Have a look at the build quality and the thickness of the steel plate on headstock and chassis and there's no comparison.

A big issue with Manipoo was getting someone to trade it, no dealer wanted it. Take my advice and buy a Darby sprong before you consider a Manipoo

Sounds much the same as the matbros then :eek::eek::eek: