17 v .22 the best riffle and scope

killintime

hi all a frand of mine is looking to get a riffle and would like to no what is the best riffle and scope an mod to get as there is alot out there to chose from

extremetaz

Personally I'd point him towards the 22LR as a first rifle, and simply because it's FAR cheaper to feed than anything else on the market barring air rifles which will make all the difference while he's in the learning stages.

Let him move onto to bigger, louder and more expensive habits from there as he sees fit.

killintime

he is not looking to go more than .22 so wants to spend his cash on something good that will last him

extremetaz

Well, in that case he needs to know exactly what he wants to shoot and from what range he wants to be able to shoot it - then choose the best round for that job and buy a rifle that fires that round.


For the record though - I don't think I know *anybody* who's ever regretted buying a .22LR. They are, bar none, the best rifle to learn to shoot on, they're a hell of a lot of fun to shoot, and because they're so cheap to feed you can put a hell of a lot of lead downrange before your pocket will start to feel it. Match grade ammo will set you back about 16c a round. I don't think there's another caliber that can come anywhere near that.

killintime

he want to do some rabbit an fox hunting prob 100 yards abit of target as well no more than 200 yards

Traumadoc

I would go for a 22, as a 17 hmr needs a lot of cleaning to keep it sweet, I sold my .17 and bought a 22. have not regretted it.

killintime

what make of .22 would you rocomend as there alot to pick from thanks

oldtart

killintime wrote: »

what make of .22 would you rocomend as there alot to pick from thanks

CZ

extremetaz

22WMR would give you foxing capability out to ~80-100 yards I'd expect, 22LR wouldn't be advisable on a fox.

The WMR won't be as quiet or as cheap to run as the LR but it's still reasonably cheap to feed and easy to shoot.

killintime

any piticular model in the cz range

killintime

what make of riffle uses the wmr rounds thanks

mister gullible

The only real choice is 22lr or 17hmr. The 22 magnum gives the worst of both worlds, noisier than the 22lr, poor trajectory for longer ranges, not as good in a breeze as hmr, less hitting power than hmr (in real life shooting).
I prefer suppressed 22lr to 70yds. For longer rabbits and occasional foxes I'd go hmr. If I could have only one it would be 22lr.

garv123

He really needs to decide what he wants it for.. no point just asking what to get when everyone will have their own opinion without knowing what his intentions are.

The main things that will decide it are below.

Does he want to shoot just rabbits/shoot targets?

Does he want it for rabbits and shooting foxes?

The .22 is better suited for rabbits and targets, its quieter, cheaper to feed and
estimate bullets around 7-8euro for 50..

The 17hmr is better suited for rabbits and foxes, its dead flat out to 120 yards and packs much more punch than the .22 on foxes and is better at longer ranges.
€16 per 50

So what does he want it for?

I had a hmr for 3 years and I loved it, the licence is up now and Ive sold it on and Ive gotten a .22 for a bit of targets rabbits, I just got a .243 now aswel so that will do me for fox shooting.


cz 452 for a nice light gun accurate out of the box
Both have their purposes.

killintime

hi he will be rabbit hunting an the odd fox as for target not some much an do you no any good scope to go with the cz 452 thanks

garv123

killintime wrote: »

hi he will be rabbit hunting an the odd fox as for target not some much an do you no any good scope to go with the cz 452 thanks

I got a nikko stirling nighteater 4-16x50, had it on my hmr and its now on my .243,

cost me about 220 I think and its the best value for money scope ive come across yet. brilliant in low light when deer shooting for the money too.


I was crossing a stream last night and slipped and I managed to drop the rifle
The gun hopped off a stone scope first. I picked it up and came to a field and saw a rabbit at about 40 yards, took a shot at him and took his head off to my suprise, close shot but I taught i was going to be in the market for a new scope but it seems to be fine.

killintime

thanks ill pass the info on the scope to him sounds like a good scope an hope you were ok after your fall

killintime

hi just found out its a bolt action rifle he looking to get

yubabill1

CZ452 or newer models are bolt actions.

They are extremely accurate - don't let the low price fool you.

Would not recommend for foxes unless you can hit them in the heart, head (or neck as a last resort) but you will find it harder than it sounds.

If you're only starting out shooting, keep it to the fox's head for the first while. This will probably mean getting closer - it's best to make strong efforts to kill humanely and as your skill grows, you can expand your repertoire of shots.

I have shot many foxes with 22LR and it will do the job if you supply the skill.

killintime

thanks yubabill1 will pass the info on to him as it seems that the cz is the only rifle that has got a mention on here so he dont have alot to chose from

yubabill1

There are lots of rifles to choose from out there and I have seen many of them, but I can think of very few that will outshoot the CZ 452 (and newer models) and even less that match their reliability.

When it comes to putting the bullet in the right place "It ain't the arrow - it's the Indian."

In other words, you will have to be one helluva good shot with years of discipline to extract the extra bit of performance that an expensive target rifle will give you over the humble CZ. Many people do not realise this and most (local "expert" shooters)will waste their breath trying to convince you otherwise.

killintime

hi is the cz 452 17 hmr

oldtart

killintime wrote: »

hi is the cz 452 17 hmr

The CZ 455 is able to change barells, but then you need a licence for each barell, I think. You can have .17hmr, 22lr or .22wmr

oldtart

oldtart wrote: »

The CZ 455 is able to change barells, but then you need a licence for each barell, I think. You can have .17hmr, 22lr or .22wmr

The CZ 452 is the same but is fixed and not able to switch from one to another.

killintime

ya he had alook at the cz455 they can be changed but will need a licence for the two if he got 17 /.22 not onleed he moves to the usa

killintime

cz 527 17 hornet Based on the .22 Hornet cartridge case, the .17 Hornet propels the 20
grain V-MAX bullet to a scorching 3,650 fps. Fueled with Superformance
propellent, the .17 Hornet Superformance Varmint cartridge is economi
-
cally priced, and delivers the trajectory of a traditional 55 grain .223
load, but is a pleasure to shoot with the felt recoil of a .22 WMR. The .17
Hornet – an economical, fun .17-caliber centerfire cartridge that puts the
sting on varmints out to 300 yards!
•
3,650 fps muzzle velocity with a 20 grain V-MAX bullet
•
Same length as the .22 Hornet – uses the existing action
•
Trajectory comparable to a traditional 55 grain
.223 Rem, with the felt recoil of a .22 WMR
•
Less fouling, barrel wear, powder and pressure
compared to the .17 Rem
•
Lower cost and comparable quality to the .17 Fireball and .223
any got 1 or no how good there are thanks

killintime

above post the ammo cost to much for it any one no anything about the sako 17 if there any good of a fifle thanks

extremetaz

The CZ455 is available in 17HMR, but to answer the question, Sako are a good brand as well yes.

killintime

ya was looking at the SAKO QUAD 17 an.22 but not shur how good they are as most ppl are saying the cz range

yubabill1

Ah, I think I see shades of the eternal question - what calibre rifle to use for rabbits and fox?

There is no easy answer IMHO.

I would say get a 22LR if this is a first rifle and concentrate on rabbits for a start: Logic of this is that 22LR rabbit shooting needs discipline and discipline makes good shooting.

Also, 22LR has almost no recoil and won't lead to bad habits so much.

17HMR is a small step up from 22LR and not bad to shoot with a moderator wrt recoil. Without a mod, it's noisy and there is enough recoil to induce a flinch in a new shooter if they're not careful.

Then there's the 22WMR, which probably fits somewhere in between the two.

There will be many opinions on this and don't take mine as final.

killintime

thanks again yubabill1 Logic of this is that 22LR rabbit shooting needs discipline and discipline makes good shooting. cant say more than that but its a 17 he is going for now just need to find the wright one for him now all info is welcome an taken on board thanks again for all your help keep up the good work

Gorman700

killintime wrote: »

cz 527 17 hornet Based on the .22 Hornet cartridge case, the .17 Hornet propels the 20
grain V-MAX bullet to a scorching 3,650 fps. Fueled with Superformance
propellent, the .17 Hornet Superformance Varmint cartridge is economi
-
cally priced, and delivers the trajectory of a traditional 55 grain .223
load, but is a pleasure to shoot with the felt recoil of a .22 WMR. The .17
Hornet – an economical, fun .17-caliber centerfire cartridge that puts the
sting on varmints out to 300 yards!
•
3,650 fps muzzle velocity with a 20 grain V-MAX bullet
•
Same length as the .22 Hornet – uses the existing action
•
Trajectory comparable to a traditional 55 grain
.223 Rem, with the felt recoil of a .22 WMR
•
Less fouling, barrel wear, powder and pressure
compared to the .17 Rem
•
Lower cost and comparable quality to the .17 Fireball and .223
any got 1 or no how good there are thanks

Anyone have more info on these?

killintime

what other info on them are you looking for on the cz 527

killintime

any one got any opinon on the ruger 10/22 thanks

killintime

CZ527
Main featuReS
•
Truemicro-length Mauser-style action
•
Controlled round feed
•
Hammer forged barrel
•
Single set rigger
•
Detachable magazine
•
16mm scope dovetails milled into the action
•
Left-hand versions available in some calibers
•
Because they are built to CIP spec, all CZ.223s are built to fire 5.56 ammunition. CIP spec does’t differentiate between the two hope this help abit

Traumadoc

killintime wrote: »

any one got any opinon on the ruger 10/22 thanks

Don't have one, prefer a bolt action, but never heard anything bad said about them ( lots of bad things said about other S/A such as the remington 597) and lots of good things said about the ruger.

killintime

ya they seem to be a nice one lots of addons for them

killintime

marlim 17hmr 917vs any one got /have /or use one of them how good are they or how bad are they thanks

garv123

killintime wrote: »

marlim 17hmr 917vs any one got /have /or use one of them how good are they or how bad are they thanks

Its what I had, just sold it.

It was a great rifle and shot well, they arent expensive and they've got nothing fancy on them but they work.

the magazine can be a little loose but thats an easy fix.

killintime

hi thanks garv123 just got alook at one like the feel of it love the heavybarrol an mod like the plane riffle thow

killintime

The 1000-times proven Biathlon straight pull action with repeating device
in connection with the match two-stage trigger allows very fast repeating
which results in important seconds for the hunting success.
The straight pull repeater action can easily be operated with the index finger
to open it for reloading. The action is closed again with the thumb. The shooter
reloads the rifle with just one movement of the wrist. The hand operating the
trigger will remain at the grip and even the elbow does not have to move.
The shooter thus only needs little time for focussing. With 3.5 to 4 ms also the
lock time is extraordinarily short and reached by no other brand. It makes a
high hit rate possible.
The .17 HMR caliber (Hornady Magnum Rimfire) with a shot diameter of 0.17
inch is the most innovative introduction to the firearms field in the last few years.
ANSCHÜTZ presented, as one of the first manufacturers in the world, a rifle hat
sets the standard in this caliber from the very start. The renowned ANSCHÜTZ
precision and quality teamed with the fastest rimfire cartridge in the world
produces the ultimate answer for predator hunting with minimum pelt damage

killintime

Caliber .17 HMR
Barreled action Straight pull repeater action
Trigger Match two stage trigger 5020
Trigger weight Range of adjustment 90 – 650 g, adjusted to 550 g
Total length 104 cm · 41''
Barreled action length 72,5 cm · 28,5''
Length of pull 77,5 cm · 30,5''
Barrel length / Rifling 55,8 cm · 22'' / 55,8 cm · 22''
Muzzle diameter 18 mm · 0,7''
Rifling length / Number of discharges 228 mm · 9'' / 8
Action weight 2.240 g
Stock weight 1.230 g
Total weight 3.470 g

minktrapper

killintime wrote: »

cz 527 17 hornet Based on the .22 Hornet cartridge case, the .17 Hornet propels the 20
grain V-MAX bullet to a scorching 3,650 fps. Fueled with Superformance
propellent, the .17 Hornet Superformance Varmint cartridge is economi
-
cally priced, and delivers the trajectory of a traditional 55 grain .223
load, but is a pleasure to shoot with the felt recoil of a .22 WMR. The .17
Hornet – an economical, fun .17-caliber centerfire cartridge that puts the
sting on varmints out to 300 yards!
•
3,650 fps muzzle velocity with a 20 grain V-MAX bullet
•
Same length as the .22 Hornet – uses the existing action
•
Trajectory comparable to a traditional 55 grain
.223 Rem, with the felt recoil of a .22 WMR
•
Less fouling, barrel wear, powder and pressure
compared to the .17 Rem
•
Lower cost and comparable quality to the .17 Fireball and .223
any got 1 or no how good there are thanks

here you go u tube ''.17 hornet long range performance''

Backfire

extremetaz wrote: »

22WMR would give you foxing capability out to ~80-100 yards I'd expect, 22LR wouldn't be advisable on a fox.

The WMR won't be as quiet or as cheap to run as the LR but it's still reasonably cheap to feed and easy to shoot.

Many people do say that a .22LR round is not the most suitable for foxes unless you are accurate with your shots. However there is harder hitting .22LR rounds on the go, the CCI Stingers, 1640fps .22LR, where the standard is 1250fps and subsonic are around 1000fps. The Stingers are supposedly able to "knock" a fox as they say. I bought a box of 50, haven't used one yet on a fox, just test fired a couple, substantially louder. Price wise they are €8 - €9 for a box of 50, if I remember correctly. Not sure of other brands with similar speed and power in .22LR calibre.

killintime

thanks mink had a look at that vid some nice shooting and at a good range

killintime

hi backfire thanks for the info let me no how you get on with the cci stingers when you do get a fox an at what yards you get him at thanks happy hunting

extremetaz

Backfire wrote: »

Many people do say that a .22LR round is not the most suitable for foxes unless you are accurate with your shots. However there is harder hitting .22LR rounds on the go, the CCI Stingers, 1640fps .22LR, where the standard is 1250fps and subsonic are around 1000fps. The Stingers are supposedly able to "knock" a fox as they say. I bought a box of 50, haven't used one yet on a fox, just test fired a couple, substantially louder. Price wise they are €8 - €9 for a box of 50, if I remember correctly. Not sure of other brands with similar speed and power in .22LR calibre.

For sure the 22lr will do the job if you're close enough and your shot placement is spot on. The bigger advantage of the stinger though doesn't come from the fact that it's harder hitting (that helps of course though), it comes from the fact that it's flatter which means that you can place the shot better ...in theory.

The problem with them is that they loose accuracy once they start to go subsonic, and that happens at about 60~ish yards, maybe sooner, I don't use them - in any case, shot placement in this instance is of utmost importance, and hard enough to achieve as it is when you're hitting an animal that size with a bullet that small with that little energy - throw a heap of spread into your accurancy at anything after 60 yards and I'd start to call that impractical.

It's been done of course, and those that it's worked for will tell you that it's worked, you won't hear much from those that it doesn't work from though - but each to their own, I'm only offering my opinion on the capability of the venerable LR and it think there are far batter options if fox is to be an intended target.

killintime

hi an thanks extremetaz it will be for bunnys but wont shy away if a fox comes long at the right range but the 17 seems to have more impact at longer range than the 22 so mite look in to the 17

extremetaz

killintime wrote: »

hi an thanks extremetaz it will be for bunnys but wont shy away if a fox comes long at the right range but the 17 seems to have more impact at longer range than the 22 so mite look in to the 17

Far more impact and far more accuracy - same energy at 200yards as the Stinger at 70yards, and MPBR of about 120yards as opposed to ~70, and they stay supersonic out to about the 200 yard mark too, so no sudden increase in spread either.

Trade off is that it's louder and more expensive to run.

killintime

hi true they do cost abit more an as you say the accuracy is alot better

killintime

Browning T-Bolt Target Varmint .17 HMR 16.5 Inch

A marriage between speed and accuracy.

T-Bolt. The return of a legendary rimfire. We all remember the first time squeezing a trigger, usually consisting of simply plinking a few tin cans. For some of us, those first shots were from an original Browning T-Bolt, one of the most accurate, handy and easy-to-shoot rimfires ever produced. Those days can now be relived with today’s T-Bolt, a rifle every bit the equal of the original, with new features that put this unique rifle in a class by itself. The straight T bolt design lets you load and eject with a simple pull back and push forward. This system is unequaled among rimfires for raw bolt action speed -- nearly as fast as a semi-auto 22. But you retain all the accuracy advantages of a bolt action design. Todays T-Bolt has even more than the original.

Double Helix. When you use the classic straight-pull bolt-action design to chamber each cartridge they are fed from the new 10-round rotary Double Helix™ (patent pending) box magazine. No magazine is like the Double Helix. And no magazine is easier to load and more reliable at feeding.

Three lever trigger accuracy. The T-Bolt’s three-lever trigger offers a light, crisp break, and every barrel is free floating. For those of you who are serious about rimfire accuracy will appreciate the new T-Bolt Target/Varmint model. It features a walnut stock with raised Monte Carlo comb and a heavy varmint barrel designed to provide pinpoint accuracy that rivals many custom rimfires costing much more.

Stock
T-Bolt rifle stocks are full-size with a satin finish and cut checkering on solid walnut. Target/Varmint models feature a Monte Carlo comb and wide forearm for stability on the bench. Standard T-Bolt is a sporter stock configuration. Both include dual action screws. Sling swivel studs installed. Synthetic buttplate.

Action
Receiver is machined from steel barstock. Features a classic crossbolt lockup, with an enlarged bolt handle pivot point moved forward for smoother action. Mainspring runs directly through the massive pivot pin. Cocking effort is split between opening and closing for ease of operation. One-piece dual extractor with integral spring and red cocking indicator band.

Trigger
Lightweight gold-tone trigger, black trigger guard and housing. The three-lever trigger design combined with a short-travel firing pin gives a crisp break, quick lock time, no take-up and minimal overtravel. Externally adjustable for pull weight.

Safety
Top-tang, thumb operated two-position safety can be operated without changing from a shooting grip.

Barrel
Target/Varmint model features a 22 heavy varmint profile. T-Bolt Sporter features a 22 medium sporter profile. Both are free-floating and have a semi-match chamber and target muzzle crown.

Sights
Receiver is drilled and tapped for scope mounts (scope not included).

Magazine
Patent pending Double Helix™ rotary box magazine. 10-round capacity. Easy to load and unload and perfect alignment with the chamber every time. This innovative design makes other rotary magazine designs look clunky and bulky.

any vews on it any 1 got one thanks

yubabill1

Browning are one of the world's greatest gunmakers, but I am inherently suspicious of rotary magazines.

And don't believe the guys raving about their 10/22 Rugers. unless you enjoy tinkering with your rig on a regular basis.

I like things that go "bang" every time I press the trigger: It's hard to beat stone-age-simple stuff IMHO.