Rough place

Has every town and village in Ireland got a rough area in fact it seems to be bit of an obsession.... someone says they are thinking of buying in such and such a place and immediately they will be told it don't do that its near X and X is a very rough area... or someone will say I am thinking of buying in such and such a town and often as not they will be told it a got a reputation as being rough!! what exactly does that mean.

My mother who is dead now had a very convoluted idea about this and it went along the lines that any town that had been a barracks town i.e. a town where the British army had been stationed was bound to be rough.

biko

I think you need to have railway tracks first.

"He was from the other side of the tracks"

Mr. Incognito

Rough used to mean poor areas .

However now = No amenities = Bored Teenagers= Drug taking and Anti Social Behaviour.

Thanks to Developers bribing the local gombeen politicians to overturn planning zones and laws, rough now means lego land apartments built in the last fifteen years that have no local amenities or services which are going to become black spots of anti social behaviour in future and turn into little scum filled sores all around outer Dublin and most other large towns and cities in Ireland.

Like Crumlin on Steroids, which would be ironic if it wasn't so tragic.

fonecrusher1

Its actually a disgrace.

Another version of this is it a very settled area now it use to be very rough back in the 70s this is usually translated as it full of old people now and or an architected has purchased a house there, did it up and now it has big glass box on the back.

whiskeyman

In some places in SoCoDu, 'rough areas' mean not being able to get good, freshly ground coffee

on the river

After hours without doubt . Hostile place

gugleguy

biko wrote: »

I think you need to have railway tracks first.........

Maybe moreso if the railway has closed- if the area around the station in the affected has become shabby when abandoned not mentioning any town in particular.:)

beano345

Think most large enough towns have one usually built on the outskirts of that town,were I'm from there's two,the first one built has settled down with the kids from that estate grown up and moved into the newer one which turned a bit wild aswell,but seems to be settling down with just the older parents left in these places.

Hoop66

mariaalice wrote: »

Another version of this is it a very settled area now it use to be very rough back in the 70s this is usually translated as it full of old people now and or an architected has purchased a house there, did it up and now it has big glass box on the back.

Where I live is a bit like that, had a real rep in the 80s & 90s for smack and thieving. If you mention the name you still get the odd intake of breath.

Seems that most of the scummers have died or moved on. There's still a few little scrotes whose parents obviously don't give a **** running around the place, but mostly it's salt-of-the-earth old folks or people like us who bought there because it was cheap.

We're getting the glass box next month.

earlyevening

mariaalice wrote: »

My mother who is dead now had a very convoluted idea about this and it went along the lines that any town that had been a barracks town i.e. a town where the British army had been stationed was bound to be rough.

I agree with your mother. Towns that were garrisoned are rougher. They generally have league of Ireland soccer clubs too (with some exceptions)

hfallada

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Rough used to mean poor areas .

However now = No amenities = Bored Teenagers= Drug taking and Anti Social Behaviour.

Thanks to Developers bribing the local gombeen politicians to overturn planning zones and laws, rough now means lego land apartments built in the last fifteen years that have no local amenities or services which are going to become black spots of anti social behaviour in future and turn into little scum filled sores all around outer Dublin and most other large towns and cities in Ireland.

Like Crumlin on Steroids, which would be ironic if it wasn't so tragic.

And yet there is plenty of middle class suburbs in Dublin with no amenities or services and there is zero social issues. Social issues are far more complex and not prevented with a sports centre, a supermarket,pharmacy etc. Even with all the amenities an area could need, ballymun still has social issues. Yet suburbs beside it without those facilites have little or no social issues eg glasnevin and drumcondra. Education is the best way to prevent social issues. Only one in 17 with a college degree is unemployed versus 1in 7 with only the leaving cert.

Rough areas are generally areas where people for tens of years lacked education and were locked in a poverty trap. Eg Dublin north inner city

ScottStorm

hfallada wrote: »

And yet there is plenty of middle class suburbs in Dublin with no amenities or services and there is zero social issues.

I would class a yummy mummy in a rangerover / beemer ferrying her offspring to amenities with a pocketfull of cash as being equivalent to having amenities on your doorstep.

whisky_galore

Rough Area - a 'working class' area where no-one actually works.

Mr. Incognito

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Rough used to mean poor areas .

However now = No amenities = Bored Teenagers= Drug taking and Anti Social Behaviour.

Thanks to Developers bribing the local gombeen politicians to overturn planning zones and laws, rough now means lego land apartments built in the last fifteen years that have no local amenities or services which are going to become black spots of anti social behaviour in future and turn into little scum filled sores all around outer Dublin and most other large towns and cities in Ireland.

Like Crumlin on Steroids, which would be ironic if it wasn't so tragic.

What amities do you mean be specific, if an area has a Gaa club a football club, scouts, a youth club, a bus services and shops has it got enough services.

A lot of the rough area stuff is nonsense its one of those things that trotted out with it out having any meaning, also people are sheep as soon as some designer or artist buys a house in the area it becomes the place to buy, I have seen this with some where I drive by on the way home from work in the past 14 years it had a transformation.

I am convinced that in any city you could take a rough area and open a vegetarian café, do up the local rundown pub and have it start serving trendy food, bribe a few artist to move in and hey presto its the place to live.

Again the idea of a whole town being rough its nonsense.

The Backwards Man

The nearest rough area to me is twenty miles away in a different country.

Actually, where I live could be considered the Stepford of Ireland. Any unsavoury elements with antisocial tendencies that find there way here don't stick around too long.

The Backwards Man

The Backwards Man wrote: »

The nearest rough area to me is twenty miles away in a different country.

Actually, where I live could be considered the Stepford of Ireland. Any unsavoury elements with antisocial tendencies that find there way here don't stick around too long.

Yer probably all too poor to have anything to rob!

GalwayGirl26

biko wrote: »

I think you need to have railway tracks first.

"He was from the other side of the tracks"

Funnily enough, in my hometown the rough estate is seperated from the rest of town by the railway!

castletownman

A great example in history of such an occurence is when Springfield was split into two over an anamoly whereby Homer discovered that the city had two area codes and founded a New Springfield.

It was brilliantly surmised by Kent Brockman when he said that New Springfield was less attractive than Olde Springfield and that while Olde Springfield residents spoke in a sophisticated manner, New Springfield citizens tended to use low brow expressions like "oh yeah?" and "c'mre a minute".

Zebra3

mariaalice wrote: »

What amities do you mean be specific, if an area has a Gaa club a football club, scouts, a youth club, a bus services and shops has it got enough services.

Never any harm in having a needle exchange programme nearby.

Can be a right pain getting the Luas into town for free.

Tiddlypeeps

mariaalice wrote: »

What amities do you mean be specific, if an area has a Gaa club a football club, scouts, a youth club, a bus services and shops has it got enough services.

A lot of the rough area stuff is nonsense its one of those things that trotted out with it out having any meaning, also people are sheep as soon as some designer or artist buys a house in the area it becomes the place to buy, I have seen this with some where I drive by on the way home from work in the past 14 years it had a transformation.

I am convinced that in any city you could take a rough area and open a vegetarian café, do up the local rundown pub and have it start serving trendy food, bribe a few artist to move in and hey presto its the place to live.

Again the idea of a whole town being rough its nonsense.

I don't think anybody is saying that if an area is rough then every person that lives there is scum. Rough spots do exist and just because they are currently rough does not mean they cannot change.

I have a lot of family in Ballyfermot. It is a very rough spot. I know a lot of lovely people from that area. Would I walk through it alone at night? Not a ****ing chance.

Where you have poverty you will have increased crime rates. You can pick any one of a hundred studies to back that up http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=poverty+and+crime+correlation&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_vis=1

The Backwards Man

mariaalice wrote: »

Yer probably all too poor to have anything to rob!

Tis an old saying

'If you have the name for rising early you can lie 'til dinner time.'

Bipolar Joe

mariaalice wrote: »

What amities do you mean be specific, if an area has a Gaa club a football club, scouts, a youth club, a bus services and shops has it got enough services.

A lot of the rough area stuff is nonsense its one of those things that trotted out with it out having any meaning, also people are sheep as soon as some designer or artist buys a house in the area it becomes the place to buy, I have seen this with some where I drive by on the way home from work in the past 14 years it had a transformation.

I am convinced that in any city you could take a rough area and open a vegetarian café, do up the local rundown pub and have it start serving trendy food, bribe a few artist to move in and hey presto its the place to live.

Again the idea of a whole town being rough its nonsense.

How about you and me start a gastro-bar in Southill?

whisky_galore

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

How about you and me start a gastro-bar in Southill?

Pretty sure they have a bar on Southill you can get gastro in.

Philo Beddoe

mariaalice wrote: »

My mother who is dead now had a very convoluted idea about this and it went along the lines that any town that had been a barracks town i.e. a town where the British army had been stationed was bound to be rough.

This is a fairly widely held belief. I know Athy and Longford are former garrison towns and can be a bit wild on a Saturday night.

Bipolar Joe

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

How about you and me start a gastro-bar in Southill?

You may laugh but in 20 years when Ireland population is 6 million place like Southill and Ballyfermot and Ballymun ( Ballymun in particular ) will be very popular urban areas in which to live and will be trendy and much sort after.

Tail Docker

Anywhere north, south or west of Dalkey, IMO.

tipptom

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

This is a fairly widely held belief. I know Athy and Longford are former garrison towns and can be a bit wild on a Saturday night.

It a long way to Tipp.....,
Tipperary town is an old British army garrison town,generally tops all forum polls on the roughest town in Tipperary.
Mum knows best.

Philo Beddoe

tipptom wrote: »

It a long way to Tipp.....,
Tipperary town is an old British army garrison town,generally tops all forum polls on the roughest town in Tipperary.
Mum knows best.

Sure aren't half the towns in Tipp old garrison towns?

GinaI

and how would you find out if unknown to you area is "rough" or not?

DEFTLEFTHAND

tipptom wrote: »

It a long way to Tipp.....,
Tipperary town is an old British army garrison town,generally tops all forum polls on the roughest town in Tipperary.
Mum knows best.

Bah bunch of pussies in my view. Roscrea is a proper tough town. :pac:

Philo Beddoe

GinaI wrote: »

and how would you find out if unknown to you area is "rough" or not?

You go there looking for a fight and see how many takers you get.

DrumSteve

Tail Docker wrote: »

Anywhere north, south or west of Dalkey, IMO.

And east.

Dial Hard

GinaI wrote: »

and how would you find out if unknown to you area is "rough" or not?

Drive through it in the middle of a workday and see how many people are out and about.

GinaI

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

You go there looking for a fight and see how many takers you get.

I see... I was just wondering about Clondalkin...so I should try this before I decide whether to move there

Tiddlypeeps

GinaI wrote: »

and how would you find out if unknown to you area is "rough" or not?

Signs of a very rough area would be burned out cars, dark patches in green areas where there were recently bon fires surrounded by empty cans, lots of graffiti etc.

Another thing that stands out is the level of security residents of the area employ. Generally the more steel bars covering windows and barbed wire fences the rougher the area.

There aren't always signs tho. Some areas can have a high rate of violent crime and theft that look perfectly normal.

Philo Beddoe

GinaI wrote: »

I see... I was just wondering about Clondalkin...so I should try this before I decide whether to move there

If you insist on doing your own research. But why put yourself to the trouble when so much previous data is available? The results are in, Clondalkin is indeed 'rough'.

GinaI

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

If you insist on doing your own research. But why put yourself to the trouble when so much previous data is available? The results are in, Clondalkin is indeed 'rough'.

I am actively searching for a previous data at the moment ;-) Oak Rise are is the subject of my interest

Tiddlypeeps

GinaI wrote: »

I see... I was just wondering about Clondalkin...so I should try this before I decide whether to move there

Some parts of Clondalkin are lovely, some are incredibly rough. Some of the areas just south of the Liffey Valley are a bit scary. Some of the areas around Clondalkin village itself tho are quite nice.

It's kind of the same for most of Dublin. The whole north vs south thing is a load of crap, the city just has a load of black spots scattered all over the place randomly. It probably has a lot to do with bad planning around social housing.

GinaI

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Some parts of Clondalkin are lovely, some are incredibly rough. Some of the areas just south of the Liffey Valley are a bit scary. Some of the areas around Clondalkin village itself tho are quite nice.

It's kind of the same for most of Dublin. The whole north vs south thing is a load of crap, the city just has a load of black spots scattered all over the place randomly. It probably has a lot to do with bad planning around social housing.

I've heard Monastery Road and Boot Road area were nice, could find anything about Oak Rise though.

anewme

GinaI wrote: »

I've heard Monastery Road and Boot Road area were nice, could find anything about Oak Rise though.

I think Oak Rise is in Greenpark and if it is, there are mixed views on it. It's a vast area and some parts would seem to be good and some not so good.

Shakespeare's Sister

OP, why are you asking what this means? You know full well what it means!

mariaalice wrote: »

Another version of this is it a very settled area now it use to be very rough back in the 70s this is usually translated as it full of old people now

What's wrong with saying that though? It can be the case.

mariaalice wrote: »

I am convinced that in any city you could take a rough area and open a vegetarian café, do up the local rundown pub and have it start serving trendy food, bribe a few artist to move in and hey presto its the place to live.

I fully agree with you (see: inner city Dublin, north and south; Shandon in Cork) but it's extremely dishonest to deny that there are areas further out (so therefore not as easy to escape from) with high levels of crime and intimidation, and people who pretend this isn't a reality tend to be living comfortable lives and wouldn't dream of actually living in areas that do have problems, e.g. Southill as mentioned.
In such areas it is always only a minority that make life hell for the vast majority of normal people, but it's still a ****ing nut-job minority that command ridiculous amounts of power.

That said, some people's notion of a rough area is rather ridiculous. A bunch of lads hanging around outside Spar at night is not = a rough area!

Again the idea of a whole town being rough its nonsense.

It is, but I don't know if anyone thinks that.

moxin

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

It's kind of the same for most of Dublin. The whole north vs south thing is a load of crap, the city just has a load of black spots scattered all over the place randomly. It probably has a lot to do with bad planning around social housing.

Very true. Where I am in suburban Dublin..within a mile of my house,

east of me is quite plush
west of me is quite rough but an industrial estate and a motorway is blocking them off from my house(thank flook ),
north of me is quite rough but 3 rows of houses and a park is blocking them off from my house
northwest of me is all new housing and a nice shopping centre
south of me is a halfway house, ie. mixed

tipptom

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Bah bunch of pussies in my view. Roscrea is a proper tough town. :pac:

Ha Ha,we will allow you your badge of pride,dont think it was a garrison town though.


Mullingar was a garrison town,rough or no?

pragmatic1

The Backwards Man wrote: »

The nearest rough area to me is twenty miles away in a different country.

Actually, where I live could be considered the Stepford of Ireland. Any unsavoury elements with antisocial tendencies that find there way here don't stick around too long.

You not from Letterkennny? There's two rough areas in that town that I've lived in. Visited family there recently. OMFG. One in particular ig going to be a serious problem.

Boom__Boom

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

How about you and me start a gastro-bar in Southill?

I smell a "wacky" RTE comedy...

BarryD

mariaalice wrote: »

.... someone says they are thinking of buying in such and such a place and immediately they will be told it don't do that its near X and X is a very rough area... or someone will say I am thinking of buying in such and such a town and often as not they will be told it a got a reputation as being rough!! ...

Ah well, people could be saying this to keep you away you know, put you off your stroke etc.

Larianne

Dial Hard wrote: »

Drive through it in the middle of a workday and see how many people are out and about.

....in pyjamas.

deseil

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I don't think anybody is saying that if an area is rough then every person that lives there is scum. Rough spots do exist and just because they are currently rough does not mean they cannot change.

I have a lot of family in Ballyfermot. It is a very rough spot. I know a lot of lovely people from that area. Would I walk through it alone at night? Not a ****ing chance.

Where you have poverty you will have increased crime rates. You can pick any one of a hundred studies to back that up http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=poverty+and+crime+correlation&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_vis=1

Really, I have walked through ballyfermot on manies a night and never had any trouble.
I can't say I've heard of many innocent walkers being murdered there either( correct me if im wrong).

The Backwards Man

pragmatic1 wrote: »

You not from Letterkennny? There's two rough areas in that town that I've lived in. Visited family there recently. OMFG. One in particular ig going to be a serious problem.

Forty miles from Letterkenny, I hear it's so rough the junkies travel in packs.

Johngoose

Ballsbridge has no rough part...