Finian McGrath on cycling on footpaths again

monument

The following is a written Dail question from Finian McGrath to the Minister for Justice re footpath cycling....

...Does anybody know exactly where this recurring problem area is?...


https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-09-17a.1553&s=cycling

Finian McGrath wrote:

To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality her views on correspondence (details supplied) regarding cycling on footpaths; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

Frances Fitzgerald replied:

The Deputy will appreciate that I have no direct role in roads policing which is principally an operational matter for An Garda Síochána and will be aware that I previously brought his concerns surrounding cycling on footpaths at this location to the attention of the Garda authorities.

I have been informed by the Garda authorities that local Garda Management is aware that the area concerned is prone to traffic congestion arising from access to a shopping centre and local schools.

I am also informed that members of An Garda Síochána enforce the law on pedal cycling at this location as part of their normal duties on an ongoing basis. Regular patrols are conducted in the area augmented by the Divisional Traffic Unit and where breaches of the road traffic legislation are detected, members of An Garda Síochána, depending on the circumstances, may deal with the incident by way of advice or caution or by initiating criminal proceedings. I am advised that community Garda plan to visit the local secondary school to advise students of their responsibilities under the Road Traffic Acts with the overall objective of increasing awareness and compliance and that the situation will be kept under review.

I should add, it seems to be a rehash of at least this question (in link) and possibly linked to his cycling grievances in the past... https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-07-01a.939&s=cycling+speaker%3A184#g940.q

Eamonnator

Empty cans make the most noise.

bazermc

monument wrote: »

The following is a written Dail question from Finian McGrath to the Minister for Justice re footpath cycling....

...Does anybody know exactly where this recurring problem area is?...


Yes, Kildare Street!

magicbastarder

speaking of kildare street, is it true that the pedestrian crossing there is not on any sort of timer - as in the pedstrian light turns green instantly when you hit the button?

Fian

magicbastarder wrote: »

speaking of kildare street, is it true that the pedestrian crossing there is not on any sort of timer - as in the pedstrian light turns green instantly when you hit the button?

Not instant. But I understand it is on an extremely short timer.

Jawgap

Eamonnator wrote: »

Empty cans make the most noise.

How dare you, sir - HOW DARE YOU.........

Finian McGrath is acknowledged by friends, colleagues, enemies, and the media alike as being a man of integrity. His record as a member of Daíl Éireann, previously as a Dublin City Councillor and his voluntary work, all show him to be a genuine champion of social causes.

........it says so on his website (twice three times) - so it must be true!

EDIT: three times

Jawgap

magicbastarder wrote: »

speaking of kildare street, is it true that the pedestrian crossing there is not on any sort of timer - as in the pedstrian light turns green instantly when you hit the button?

Yes - according to Frank MacDonald (him of the Paper of Record) it's the only set of pedestrian lights in the city that is not on a timer.

CramCycle

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes - according to Frank MacDonald (him of the Paper of Record) it's the only set of pedestrian lights in the city that is not on a timer.

There is also a switch in the Garda box to turn the lights for preference of cars leaving government buildings.

eeeee

CramCycle wrote: »

There is also a switch in the Garda box to turn the lights for preference of cars leaving government buildings.

No way??!!

They do turn incredibly quickly after someone presses The button. They're mad quick though, I've think the shortest red light I have ever encountered.

Iwannahurl

bazermc wrote: »

monument wrote: »

The following is a written Dail question from Finian McGrath to the Minister for Justice re footpath cycling....

...Does anybody know exactly where this recurring problem area is?...

Yes, Kildare Street!

And Phoenix Park.

Jawgap

CramCycle wrote: »

There is also a switch in the Garda box to turn the lights for preference of cars leaving government buildings.

I think if I was the Guard there I wouldn't be able to resist flicking it from green to red to green to red just for the craic!

buffalo

Iwannahurl wrote: »

And Phoenix Park.

So we write to Deputy McGrath about the recurring issue of walking on cyclepaths?

Buchaill_Mor

buffalo wrote: »

So we write to Deputy McGrath about the recurring issue of walking on cyclepaths?

Along with people parking in them, motorcyclists using them, taxi drivers/bus drivers entering them when passing a right turning car.

How long could this list be?

Maybe Deputy McGrath only thinks in simple terms, one perpetrator at a time, or I won't be able to keep the lie, I mean, facts in my head.

spyderski

magicbastarder wrote: »

speaking of kildare street, is it true that the pedestrian crossing there is not on any sort of timer - as in the pedstrian light turns green instantly when you hit the button?

Yep, It's so fast if you time your button push right you could cause a minor crash:D Fun times!!!!

Kaisr Sose

And what of the cycle lanes that have been placed on footpaths with both users supposed to share the same pathway? Eg. Stillorgan Road around Cornellscourt heading out from city.

buffalo

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes - according to Frank MacDonald (him of the Paper of Record) it's the only set of pedestrian lights in the city that is not on a timer.

I often thought a lazy one-man protest would be to just keep pressing that crossing button. From my casual observances, it doesn't seem to enforce a gap between pedestrian green lights, so you could cause a traffic jam on Kildare Street back to Nassau Street pretty swiftly.

Leroy42

buffalo wrote: »

I often thought a lazy one-man protest would be to just keep pressing that crossing button. From my casual observances, it doesn't seem to enforce a gap between pedestrian green lights, so you could cause a traffic jam on Kildare Street back to Nassau Street pretty swiftly.

That, sir, is genius.

Evil genius, but genius none the less.

Can you send me some litreature on your policies and plans for the developement of your party

magicbastarder

i've tweeted the bould finian to ask what the 'details supplied' were in relation to the correspondence.

on_the_nickel

What's the problem with this?

Cycling on the footpath is illegal, and rightly so. If you do it, you deserve a fine, if you don't, this doesn't affect you?

CramCycle

on_the_nickel wrote: »

What's the problem with this?

Cycling on the footpath is illegal, and rightly so. If you do it, you deserve a fine, if you don't, this doesn't affect you?

I don't think many if any here have an issue with this or disagree with you, Finian McGrath seems to make a point of bringing up pointless anti cyclist rubbish from time to time. The law is there, while not heavily enforced, it is enforced when Gardai are present, this has been explained to Finian before, he decides to waste government time by bringing it up again.

Quite surprised he didn't have a list of unverified incidents of cyclists killing pedestrians along the seafront to justify his waste of time in the Dail.

If he had to do something intelligent like push FPNs through to save Garda and court time, then it would make sense. He prefers not too actually do anything other than heat up chambers with the hot air he puffs out rather than stand up and say right, FPNs, should have been in by now, where are they and give me a date for pushing them through.

Jawgap

on_the_nickel wrote: »

What's the problem with this?

Cycling on the footpath is illegal, and rightly so. If you do it, you deserve a fine, if you don't, this doesn't affect you?

Are you a lollipop lady ?

Buchaill_Mor

CramCycle wrote: »

The law is there, while not heavily enforced, it is enforced when Gardai are present, this has been explained to Finian before, he decides to waste government time by bringing it up again.

I wonder if I should send him the video of my 40 minute cycle home yesterday evening where I passed 28 moving cars where the driver was either texting or holding the phone while making a call?

I watched it back, and re counted them. I actually passed about 42 cars where the driver was using their phone, but the balance were stationary, so I suppose that does not count.

Carawaystick

There are lights on Aungier St which change at the press of a button, between the Swan and Whitefriars.

Takes about 30s to change again after the red person lights up

The lights at the Cusack Stand/Devitts pub on Camden st used to be like this too, until they were "fixed" about 10 years ago

CramCycle

Buchaill_Mor wrote: »

I wonder if I should send him the video of my 40 minute cycle home yesterday evening where I passed 28 moving cars where the driver was either texting or holding the phone while making a call?

I watched it back, and re counted them. I actually passed about 42 cars where the driver was using their phone, but the balance were stationary, so I suppose that does not count.

Since the increased fines for this, I seem to have noticed an increase in usage of mobile phones in the mornings. It's like the increase in fines were either a gauntlet thrown down or the average person who does this thinks a garda won't enforce it first time.

damon5

on_the_nickel wrote: »

What's the problem with this?

Cycling on the footpath is illegal, and rightly so. If you do it, you deserve a fine, if you don't, this doesn't affect you?

Watched two gaurds yapping away walking side by side on the footpath on Talbot street and noticed this lad on a bike on the path cycling towards them,thought he,d defo be pulled up for doing so but no he just steers around them.Footpaths are for foot traffic unless a designated cycle track has been included on it but that in itself can be a danger to pedrestrians with cyclists coming from behind,.............especially when you hav,nt been born with eyes in the back of your head...

magicbastarder

Carawaystick wrote: »

There are lights on Aungier St which change at the press of a button, between the Swan and Whitefriars.

Takes about 30s to change again after the red person lights up

this is fairly normal if the lights are not part of a larger junction. the ones outside the dail do not have a 30s wait for repeat though.

on_the_nickel

Jawgap wrote: »

Are you a lollipop lady ?

No, but I've a pain in my hoop moving out of the way of grown men in bikes on the footpath when I'm bringing my kids to the shop. My wife runs a lot and is forever complaining about having to go on the road to avoid adults on bikes on the footpath.

And I've absolutely no basis for it, but I'm of the opinion men who cycle on the footpath are the same pricks who dangerously overtake people cycling on the road.

NormalBob Ubiquitypants

on_the_nickel wrote: »

And I've absolutely no basis for it, but I'm of the opinion men who cycle on the footpath are the same pricks who dangerously overtake people cycling on the road.

I have no data beyond empirical evidence, but it would appear that women also cycle bikes and drive cars. As shocking as this may seem, both genders have been accused of dangerous cycling/driving.

monument

on_the_nickel wrote: »

...And I've absolutely no basis for it, but I'm of the opinion men who cycle on the footpath are the same pricks who dangerously overtake people cycling on the road.

Maybe some are, but in my experance the typical adult who cycle on footpaths is more likely to be overly cautious and are overly cautious regardless of mode of travel.

bigar

damon5 wrote: »

Watched two gaurds yapping away walking side by side on the footpath on Talbot street and noticed this lad on a bike on the path cycling towards them,thought he,d defo be pulled up for doing so but no he just steers around them.Footpaths are for foot traffic unless a designated cycle track has been included on it but that in itself can be a danger to pedrestrians with cyclists coming from behind,.............especially when you hav,nt been born with eyes in the back of your head...

How peculiar, watched two gaurds yapping away walking side by side on the footpath on Talbot street and noticed a van parked on the path in front of them. They formed a single file and squeezed through the narrow space, without batting an eyelid.
Footpaths are for foot traffic unless a designated parking zone has been included on it but that in itself can be a danger to pedestrians as they may be forced walking on the road due to narrow footpaths and not seen by cars coming from behind,.............especially when you hav,nt been born with eyes in the back of your head.

Eamonnator

And not a guard in sight

monument

bigar wrote: »

How peculiar, watched two gaurds yapping away walking side by side on the footpath on Talbot street and noticed a van parked on the path in front of them. They formed a single file and squeezed through the narrow space, without batting an eyelid.
Footpaths are for foot traffic unless a designated parking zone has been included on it but that in itself can be a danger to pedestrians as they may be forced walking on the road due to narrow footpaths and not seen by cars coming from behind,.............especially when you hav,nt been born with eyes in the back of your head.

Wait a second?!?

Are all footpads not designated parking zones????

geosynchronous orbit

monument wrote: »

Wait a second?!?

Are all footpads not designated parking zones????

If you put on your hazard warning lights, then yes, yes they are .....(apparently)

on_the_nickel

NormalBob Ubiquitypants wrote: »

I have no data beyond empirical evidence, but it would appear that women also cycle bikes and drive cars. As shocking as this may seem, both genders have been accused of dangerous cycling/driving.

Well, at the risk of refuting your inferred accusation of some kind of positive sexism, in my experience, it's by and large men doing both the above.

HivemindXX

Perhaps they need to station a few guards and do a zero tolerance week at this mystery location.

Stop and fine every single cyclist on the footpath.

While they are there can can also fine or give points to everyone who parks illegally, stops in the middle of the road to let their kids out, walks across the road against a red light, drives through a red light (or an amber light for that matter) or is holding their phone while driving.

The guards should probably mention that this crackdown is thanks to the efforts of TD McGrath. It's not like anyone would be up in arms about someone else while turning a blind eye to the sort of infractions they are guilty of.

For the record I have no time for people who cycle on the footpath (assuming it is not actually one of those poorly marked half-assed shared use facilities). I think McGrath is just engaging in a bit of populist rabble rousing though.

RobertFoster

If they don't want people cycling on footpaths, why do they continue to make shared use and elevated cycle tracks?

I've noticed on the Rathbeale Rd in Swords there's No Cycling signs painted on the paths. Perhaps Finian could get something similar done in his constituency.

nak

Carawaystick wrote: »

There are lights on Aungier St which change at the press of a button, between the Swan and Whitefriars.

Takes about 30s to change again after the red person lights up

I regularly see people drive and cycle through that red light, great when you're trying to cross the road.

beauf

on_the_nickel wrote: »

What's the problem with this?

Cycling on the footpath is illegal, and rightly so. If you do it, you deserve a fine, if you don't, this doesn't affect you?

Is it illegal for all ages? if not at what age does it apply?

Lumen

beauf wrote: »

Is it illegal for all ages? if not at what age does it apply?

Depends what you mean by illegal.

Sheldons Brain

HivemindXX wrote: »

Perhaps they need to station a few guards and do a zero tolerance week at this mystery location.

Stop and fine every single cyclist on the footpath.

This seems an excellent idea, without the typical whataboutery you also posted. Lawbreakers and louts should be dealt with, without reference to what other people are apparently getting away with.

SilverLiningOK

HivemindXX wrote: »

Perhaps they need to station a few guards and do a zero tolerance week at this mystery location.

Stop and fine every single cyclist on the footpath.

While they are there can can also fine or give points to everyone who parks illegally, stops in the middle of the road to let their kids out, walks across the road against a red light, drives through a red light (or an amber light for that matter) or is holding their phone while driving.

The guards should probably mention that this crackdown is thanks to the efforts of TD McGrath. It's not like anyone would be up in arms about someone else while turning a blind eye to the sort of infractions they are guilty of.

For the record I have no time for people who cycle on the footpath (assuming it is not actually one of those poorly marked half-assed shared use facilities). I think McGrath is just engaging in a bit of populist rabble rousing though.

Could be Griffith Avenue, as TD lives just off it and there quite a number of schools at that end (Malahide Road). He is completely out of order if it's there. Road there feels very unsafe with most traffic breaking speed limit, including HGVs that are too high for Dublin Port Tunnel. The road even for me, an experienced cyclist, feels very uncomfortable and I tend to avoid using it if at all possible. I certainly wouldn't advise children to cycle on that road given its unsuitability. It would be more in line for the TD to be calling for the building of safe fit for purpose properly designed cycle infrastructure. Footpath cycling would practically be eliminated if a safe space for cycling was available.

I was in the Netherlands a few week ago and experienced what well designed cycle network can mean. It allows everybody from 8 to 80 to choose to use a bicycle to get about safely. Don't say our roads are not wide enough, when you can clearly see that they are. Road space just needs to be reallocated, that's all.

CramCycle

Lumen wrote: »

Depends what you mean by illegal.

Basically if you look young enough to have a parent come down to the station and rip the super a new one over the stupidity because they are too young.

Then it's not illegal as the child will never be charged.

On a related note, seen a dad escorting his son through Donnybrook like a boss the other day. About 6 yo doing 30 kph as his dad had his hand on his back. Coming to traffic he lifted the hand and the son drafted him like a pro. Son signalled coming upto a bus that was closing in, hit the brakes and pulled up.

This is cycling the way an adult should, observation, awareness and intelligence, fair play to his dad on the excellent road training.

beauf

Lumen wrote: »

Depends what you mean by illegal.

I'd assume the law is specific?

Considering the way cycle lanes just end...


http://cyclingindublin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/7015693047_544f9329dd_z.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/4912749437/in/pool-908348@N25/

ted1

beauf wrote: »

I'd assume the law is specific?

Considering the way cycle lanes just end...


http://cyclingindublin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/7015693047_544f9329dd_z.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/4912749437/in/pool-908348@N25/

there is now a metal railing here https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/cianginty/4913352122/

No signage it's literally just appears, extremely dangerous

There is no sign to say that the cycle path changes to far side of luas track either

monument

beauf wrote: »

Is it illegal for all ages? if not at what age does it apply?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/children_and_young_offenders/children_and_the_criminal_justice_system_in_ireland.html

Age of criminal responsibility
The age of criminal responsibility is covered by Section 52 of the Children Act 2001 as amended by Section 129 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (pdf). This came into effect in October 2006, raising the age of criminal responsibility from 7 years of age to 12 years of age. This means that children who have not reached the age of 12 years cannot be charged with an offence. There is an exception, however, for children aged 10 or 11 who can be charged with murder, manslaughter, rape or aggravated sexual assault. In addition, where a child under 14 years of age is charged with an offence, no further proceedings can be taken without the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Although the 2001 Act in general prohibits children under 12 years of age from being charged and convicted of a criminal offence, they do not enjoy total immunity from action being taken against them. Section 53 of the Act as amended by Section 130 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 places an onus on the Gardai to take a child under 12 years of age to his/her parents or guardian, where they have reasonable grounds for believing that the child has committed an offence with which the child cannot be charged due to the child’s age. Where this is not possible the Gardai will arrange for the child to be taken into the custody of the Child and Family Agency (CFA) for the area in which the child normally resides. It is possible that children under 12 years of age who commit criminal offences will be dealt with by the CFA and not the criminal justice system.

monument

beauf wrote: »

I'd assume the law is specific?

Considering the way cycle lanes just end...


http://cyclingindublin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/7015693047_544f9329dd_z.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/4912749437/in/pool-908348@N25/

Link one: Crossing footpath and/or entering area which is part of toucan crossing.

Link two: Share use path sign now legal.

There should be no need for both and there's no space issue whatsoever in the first one.

beauf

So its dangerous unless theres a sign?

HivemindXX

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

This seems an excellent idea, without the typical whataboutery you also posted. Lawbreakers and louts should be dealt with, without reference to what other people are apparently getting away with.

I agree with some of that but I don't consider pointing out the hypocrisy of selectively enforcing the rules for cyclists while ignoring the frequent rule breaking by motorists to be whataboutery.

I realise that's a term that gets thrown around to allow people to disregard what others say but I believe it only counts as whataboutery if I was saying leave cyclists alone until you've dealt with the wrong doings of motorists. What I actually said, pretty clearly, was make sure not to selectively enforce the rules. That would be victimisation.

monument

HivemindXX wrote: »

I agree with some of that but I don't consider pointing out the hypocrisy of selectively enforcing the rules for cyclists while ignoring the frequent rule breaking by motorists to be whataboutery.

I realise that's a term that gets thrown around to allow people to disregard what others say but I believe it only counts as whataboutery if I was saying leave cyclists alone until you've dealt with the wrong doings of motorists. What I actually said, pretty clearly, was make sure not to selectively enforce the rules. That would be victimisation.

Well said.

beauf wrote: »

So its dangerous unless theres a sign?

I never said that. Or even hinted at it.

I was purely answering the question about legality.

beauf

It was a general comment. All over the city cycle lanes dump cyclists out on to pavements, or cyclists are directed on to pavements marked as mixed use. One minute its legal, next it isn't.

tomasrojo

Indeed one day it's illegal and highly irresponsible, and then some other day after a splash of paint it's irresponsible not to do it.