Another Astana rider suspended

corny

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/maxim-iglinskiy-provisionally-suspended-for-epo

Maxim Inglinsky following his brother in failing EPO test.

Thats more than a couple of incidents at Astana now. Vino obviously having a positive influence.

Lumen

You're shocked. I'm shocked. We're all shocked.

Inquitus

Lumen wrote: »

You're shocked. I'm shocked. We're all shocked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMIyDf3gBoY

dastardly00

The test was the day before the San Sebastian Classic race in which he came 26th. His brother's test was after that, but was announced a few weeks ago. Something strange going on.

RobFowl

dastardly00 wrote: »

The test was the day before the San Sebastian Classic race in which he came 26th. His brother's test was after that, but was announced a few weeks ago. Something strange going on.

Nothing strange, simply a case of brothers in arms...

You really have to be an imbecile to fail a test for EPO these days, good to see the UCI catching the dopers though

dastardly00

Laura Weislo (Cyclingnews Deputy Editor) tweeted this picture last night.

Getting caught taking EPO seems to very popular at the moment.

niceonetom

RobFowl wrote: »

You really have to be an imbecile to fail a test for EPO these days...

Not sure how to interpret that.

Eamonnator

RobFowl wrote: »

Nothing strange, simply a case of brothers in arms...

You really have to be an imbecile to fail a test for EPO these days, good to see the UCI catching the dopers though

Do you mean, you have to be an imbecile to take EPO?
or
Do you mean, that it's easy to take EPO, in a manner, that is very difficult to detect?

Eamonnator

Eamonnator wrote: »

Do you mean, you have to be an imbecile to take EPO?
or
Do you mean, that it's easy to take EPO, in a manner, that is very difficult to detect?

I would assume the latter:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11385/Anti-doping-scientist-warns-of-undetectable-EPO-variants.aspx

dastardly00

ronoc wrote: »

I would assume the latter:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11385/Anti-doping-scientist-warns-of-undetectable-EPO-variants.aspx

That article is from March 2012, I think since then there have been some improvements in the test that detects EPO.

I'm not sure if the test mentioned in this news article from March 2014 is in operation yet. That being said, the cycling teams could be so far ahead of the game and have EPO variants that are still undetectable, regardless of the newest super-fancy test. I don't know.

dastardly00

dastardly00 wrote: »

That article is from March 2012, I think since then there have been some improvements in the test that detects EPO.

I'm not sure if the test mentioned in this news article from March 2014 is in operation yet. That being said, the cycling teams could be so far ahead of the game and have EPO variants that are still undetectable, regardless of the newest super-fancy test. I don't know.

We don't know for sure. If history is anything to go by it's a constant game of cat and mouse.

At least cycling appears to have a robust testing regime unlike some other sports.

Eamonnator

But, would the Biological Passport not show up changes in Blood, relatively easily?.

Beasty

Eamonnator wrote: »

But, would the Biological Passport not show up changes in Blood, relatively easily?.

It will show changes in blood certainly, but they have to exceed certain limits to warrant further investigation - the art in recent times has been to keep within the "safe harbour"

Brian?

Beasty wrote: »

It will show changes in blood certainly, but they have to exceed certain limits to warrant further investigation - the art in recent times has been to keep within the "safe harbour"

I don't think they need to exceed any limits to bring suspicion. If the ratios are slightly off, defying explanation, that'll do.

RobFowl

Eamonnator wrote: »

But, would the Biological Passport not show up changes in Blood, relatively easily?.

They can but only over time. You need a series of bloods over a time-frame of at least 12 months to be fairly sure.

Re the imbecile bit, more taking EPO when you know there is a test for it and by riding the TDF and other protour level races you're likely to be tested.

New variants and techniques all the time but samples too can be retested retrospectively.

Blatant doping (if confirmed by B test) like this guy and his brother (at least had the decency to admit it) is just plain stupid on so many levels.

TheBlaaMan

A good summery here. http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/10/news/road/commentary-iglinskiy-epo-positive-will-astana-honor-mpcc-commitment_348155

Lusk_Doyle

niceonetom wrote: »

Not sure how to interpret that.

Have you been caught yet? If not, then you are not an imbecile!

simonrooneyzaga

and so they pull out of Beijing, the day after Almaty.

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Tour_of_Almaty_2014

There's a kazakh team called 'Vino 4Ever' that were in the race!

simonrooneyzaga

And another... 'Continental' team rider but dodgy all the same!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-continental-rider-okishev-tests-positive-for-steroids

Juan More Time

Isn't it about time the UCI cleared all the dodgy Director sportif's, team helpers etc out of cycling permanently? Bjarne Riise director of Tinkof ...self confessed doper... Vino is director of Astana and convicted drugs cheat..Jonathan Vaughters director of Garmin sharp another self confessed doper.. Rolf Aldag was is at Omega Pharma quickstep as Sports & Development Manager...Self confessed doper..

godtabh

Juan More Time wrote: »

Isn't it about time the UCI cleared all the dodgy Director sportif's, team helpers etc out of cycling permanently? Bjarne Riise director of Tinkof ...self confessed doper... Vino is director of Astana and convicted drugs cheat..Jonathan Vaughters director of Garmin sharp another self confessed doper.. Rolf Aldag was is at Omega Pharma quickstep as Sports & Development Manager...Self confessed doper..

Would there be anyone left?

Doc07

Juan More Time wrote: »

Isn't it about time the UCI cleared all the dodgy Director sportif's, team helpers etc out of cycling permanently? Bjarne Riise director of Tinkof ...self confessed doper... Vino is director of Astana and convicted drugs cheat..Jonathan Vaughters director of Garmin sharp another self confessed doper.. Rolf Aldag was is at Omega Pharma quickstep as Sports & Development Manager...Self confessed doper..

Unfortunately doping was so prevalent that there would be almost no team managers/directeurs left if they cleared out those implicated in past doping.

We are supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt, as crazy as the optics are. Nibali has hired Marco Pantani's old doctor. I'm sure they are not up to anything but it must seem crazy to someone casually reading about the whole thing. Imagine if Usain Bolt hired Victor Conte.

What might be considered crazy in another sport is just accepted in cycling. Perhaps because there is no alternative/competition for these positions. For example Bjarne Riis and Vinokorov managing clean cyclists would be the equivalent of Ben Johnson and Linford Christie managing a sprinter at the Olympics. But sprinting has also welcomed some dopers back a s successful competitors like Warren Gatland.

happytramp

Juan More Time wrote: »

Isn't it about time the UCI cleared all the dodgy Director sportif's, team helpers etc out of cycling permanently? Bjarne Riise director of Tinkof ...self confessed doper... Vino is director of Astana and convicted drugs cheat..Jonathan Vaughters director of Garmin sharp another self confessed doper.. Rolf Aldag was is at Omega Pharma quickstep as Sports & Development Manager...Self confessed doper..

That would be ridiculous. Why kick out one of the few people taking real, tangible, strides to stamp out doping in the sport?

Eamonnator

Doc07 wrote: »

Unfortunately doping was so prevalent that there would be almost no team managers/directeurs left if they cleared out those implicated in past doping.

What might be considered crazy in another sport is just accepted in cycling. Perhaps because there is no alternative/competition for these positions. For example Bjarne Riis and Vinokorov managing clean cyclists would be the equivalent of Ben Johnson and Linford Christie managing a sprinter at the Olympics. But sprinting has also welcomed some dopers back a s successful competitors like Warren Gatland.

Do you mean Justin Gatlin?

Beasty

Eamonnator wrote: »

Do you mean Justin Gatlin?

Dammit! - was thinking I could bring down the ban hammer for speculation over other sports:(

:pac:

Juan More Time

It's difficult to know where to draw the line sometimes....Maybe we should allow performance enhancing drugs in cycling? Get rid of Brian Cookson and elect Lance Armstrong as UCI president... :rolleyes:

Doc07

Beasty wrote: »

Dammit! - was thinking I could bring down the ban hammer for speculation over other sports:(

:pac:

Sorry. Hands up! I'm such a clown. Yes of course I meant Justin. I hope Warren will forgive the error. The dropping of Brian O'Driscoll aside, I have no reason to suspect Warren Gatland of doping or being an Olympic sprinter.

Eamonnator

Yeah, but he was a dope for dropping O'Driscoll.

Leroy42

I was watchinga bit of a 2004 TDF video yesterday, it started with the news that David Millar was absent due to getting popped for EPO. Anyway, it showed an interview with Stu O'Grady, a team mate at the time.

It was all "I feel really sorry for David, great bloke, great friend, the whole team is thinking of him and wish he was with us" blah, blah.

Probably becasueI hadn't watched it in so long, but it really struck me as creepy and weird. In hindsight, (in which I am always right) it seems really strange that a fellow pro would not feel really hard done by by riders who were cheating. He didn't need to condemn him, but surely something like it's tough on Dave but if it means we are being fair then so be it. Or, 'I can't believe it, he always seemed so focused and worked so hard, but I guess now we know why he was doing so well'

Just my observation, nothing new I admit

desertcircus

Leroy42 wrote: »

I was watchinga bit of a 2004 TDF video yesterday, it started with the news that David Millar was absent due to getting popped for EPO. Anyway, it showed an interview with Stu O'Grady, a team mate at the time.

It was all "I feel really sorry for David, great bloke, great friend, the whole team is thinking of him and wish he was with us" blah, blah.

Probably becasueI hadn't watched it in so long, but it really struck me as creepy and weird. In hindsight, (in which I am always right) it seems really strange that a fellow pro would not feel really hard done by by riders who were cheating. He didn't need to condemn him, but surely something like it's tough on Dave but if it means we are being fair then so be it. Or, 'I can't believe it, he always seemed so focused and worked so hard, but I guess now we know why he was doing so well'

Just my observation, nothing new I admit

Going by Millar's book, he had been off EPO for some time when he was busted, and going by the same source, the identities of dopers were pretty much an open secret in the peloton. It could well have been an expression of sympathy for his past catching up with him.

RobFowl

Eamonnator wrote: »

Yeah, but he was a dope for dropping O'Driscoll.

Deffo, what was the score in the match he dropped BOD for

Eamonnator

RobFowl wrote: »

Deffo, what was the score in the match he dropped BOD for

I suffer from selective amnesia. can't remember.

Move along now, nothing more to see here.

niceonetom

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/11/news/astanas-fedosseyev-tests-positive-anabolic-steroids_354386

drogdub

niceonetom wrote: »

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/11/news/astanas-fedosseyev-tests-positive-anabolic-steroids_354386

I wonder will Nibali be at BMC next July

dastardly00

Jaysus, Astana must have really pi**ed off the UCI for them to announce all these doping violations :pac:

On a serious note, there is no way Astana should be granted a UCI license for 2015.

drogdub

dastardly00 wrote: »

Jaysus, Astana must have really pi**ed off the UCI for them to announce all these doping violations :pac:

I would say there is some truth it that. Wouldn't be surprised if they are being targeted.

RobFowl

dastardly00 wrote: »

Jaysus, Astana must have really pi**ed off the UCI for them to announce all these doping violations :pac:

On a serious note, there is no way Astana should be granted a UCI license for 2015.

TBF it was 2 brothers in Astana, the other 3 were in a Kazakh developmental conti level team

godtabh

RobFowl wrote: »

TBF it was 2 brothers in Astana, the other 3 were in a Kazakh developmental conti level team

That was Astana associated. They are both linked

bedirect

if Cycling is really going to change , ASTANA should be kicked out of the World tour, Nibali will get on some other team. This is a test for Brian Cookson. Paul Kimmage is always on about people who have a history of doping still being involved in the sport, in my opinion he is correct.

godtabh

Astana go but it is going to be a real test for UCI.

ZiabR

5 members of the team all found to have doped... Nibali will be looking to leave the team I think.

Astana should be banned and their world tour licence taken off them. UCI need to man up and make an example of not just the riders but also the team.

Eamonnator

Is there not a rule, whereby, if a certain number of team members are convicted of doping violations, then the whole team is suspended?

CramCycle

Eamonnator wrote: »

Is there not a rule, whereby, if a certain number of team members are convicted of doping violations, then the whole team is suspended?

Thats a voluntary scheme, a few teams signed up, nothing to do with the UCi though. Unless Astana drop all of them permanently and sign up to regular on/off season independent testing, then there is no place for them anywhere in cycling.

Leroy42

Did any of the Astana riders that were busted ride the tour with Nibali?

lissard

Wasn't this sort of blatant cheating Vinos trademark? If I remember correctly he got busted for transfusing someone elses blood which wasn't exactly hard to detect. It's incredible that a team with the filthy history such as Astanas is still operating at the top level of the sport.

godtabh

lissard wrote: »

Wasn't this sort of blatant cheating Vinos trademark? If I remember correctly he got busted for transfusing someone elses blood which wasn't exactly hard to detect. It's incredible that a team with the filthy history such as Astanas is still operating at the top level of the sport.

Cant transfusing some one else blood can kill you? So I would assume he wasnt that lax about it.

Eamonnator

Eamonnator wrote: »

Is there not a rule, whereby, if a certain number of team members are convicted of doping violations, then the whole team is suspended?

I've just found this article.


http://www.inbrief.co.uk/sports-law/doping-in-team-sports.htm

Article 11 of the WADA code might apply?

Darkglasses

Leroy42 wrote: »

Did any of the Astana riders that were busted ride the tour with Nibali?

Yep, Maxim Iglinskiy

Macy0161

godtabh wrote: »

Cant transfusing some one else blood can kill you? So I would assume he wasnt that lax about it.

It was for someone else's blood - the rumour at the time was that his and Kashechkin's bags got mixed up!

Leroy42

Darkglasses wrote: »

Yep, Maxim Iglinskiy

Isn't it time that the team as a whole was punished. Like it or not. Maxim in some way helped Nibali to that win. Even if it was only chasing attacks, getting bottles from the car.

Whilst it seems unfair that Nibali would lose out due to his teammate, the contrary to this is that the team leaders all remain clear of drugs, but all their team mates are drugged to the gills to get them through key stages.

Collateral damage as it were.

I think if you brought this in you would have team leaders demanding tight controls in their teams and only going to those teams that could show they were actively working on this.

Juan More Time

"You have to be an imbecile or a hypocrite to imagine that a professional cyclist ... can keep going without stimulants." - Jacques Anquetil:

“You Don’t Think We Do This on Mineral Water…” -Jacques Anquetil