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2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

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    #392
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    Amerika wrote: »
    Yup, and I’d say pretty savvy on his part. He states “I believe we should follow the text of every law, even law I disagree with.” Then goes on to say “If you look at President Obama and the lawlessness, if he disagrees with a law he simply refuses to follow it or claims the authority to unilaterally change.” Ouch.

    Yes, "ouch" at the painfulness of this furious-yet-thin rationalising on Cruz's part. The issue isn't whether he "follows" the law. Buying healthcare by other routes is still lawful. He's chosen the cheaper option because it's cheaper, while grandstanding lavishly about how terrible it is that this option even exists. That's not just hypocrisy. That's M&S "Finest" hypocrisy.

    The "Obama's a tyrant" stuff is just yawn-worthy Fox News talking points. Pretty much talked-out ones too, at this point.


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    #393
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    But as I said before, it's very, very early into this campaign, and Cruz already looks like an idiot; [...]

    To be fair, though, that's not entirely due to getting an admittedly early start. He'd done a pretty decent amount of groundwork on looking like an idiot quite some while ago.


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    #394
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    Hillary and Bill charge what... $250,000 to $500,000 per speaking engagement, plus perks. Their foundation takes in millions from suspect countries and whispers of pay-to-play abound. Not a word. Yet it's Cruz who should sacrifice? Give me a break.

    Losing the debate? Time to burn that straw man!

    The Clintons are not actively campaigning against speaking fees. As long as they pay their taxes there's nothing wrong with accepting the money. No hypocrisy.

    Cruz is campaigning against Obamacare, yet he's accepting it's benefits for himself. Hypocrisy.

    Are we clear on the hypocrisy now?

    I'll ask you another question, if I may. Is health insurance cheaper on the exchanges?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #395
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Brian? wrote: »
    The Clintons are not actively campaigning against speaking fees. As long as they pay their taxes there's nothing wrong with accepting the money. No hypocrisy.

    Exactly. Neither of them currently hold elected office so its nonsense to even suggest there's an issue there.


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    #396
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    The Clintons are not actively campaigning against speaking fees. As long as they pay their taxes there's nothing wrong with accepting the money. No hypocrisy.
    I wasn’t questioning the hypocrisy of the Clintons. We all know they’re allowed to operate under a different set of rules than the other mere mortal contenders. I was questioning the hypocrisy of some posters here.
    I'll ask you another question, if I may. Is health insurance cheaper on the exchanges?
    It's a complicated formula. Cheaper as apposed to what? Getting it from an employer who negotiates with the insurance providers on a makeup of their employees? The exchange rates are based simply on gender and age. For some it's cheaper, others it's more expensive.


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    #397
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    I wasn’t questioning the hypocrisy of the Clintons. We all know they’re allowed to operate under a different set of rules than the other mere mortal contenders. I was questioning the hypocrisy of some posters here.

    If that was your point, you made it very poorly. Are we agreeing that Cruz is a hypocrite?
    It's a complicated formula. Cheaper as apposed to what? Getting it from an employer who negotiates with the insurance providers on a makeup of their employees? The exchange rates are based simply on gender and age. For some it's cheaper, others it's more expensive.

    For Cruz, was it cheaper?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #398
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    If that was your point, you made it very poorly.
    Okay.
    Are we agreeing that Cruz is a hypocrite?
    No. Cruz is abiding by the law. As I said he campaigns against our tax structure and the IRS, yet still pays taxes. Does that make him a hypocrite?
    For Cruz, was it cheaper?
    Unknown, unless you can find out what the rates were between the two policies, the differences in benefits between the two policies, and the differences between the two employer contributions.


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    #399
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    Okay.

    No. Cruz is abiding by the law. As I said he campaigns against our tax structure and the IRS, yet still pays taxes. Does that make him a hypocrite?

    He's legally required to pay taxes or go to jail. He is not legally required to use the exchanges to buy health insurance. So he is a hypocrite.
    Unknown, unless you can find out what the rates were between the two policies, the differences in benefits between the two policies, and the differences between the two employer contributions.

    I think we can make a safe assumption it was if he used the exchanges he hates so much.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #400
    Paleface
    Registered Users Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭Paleface


    Brian? wrote: »
    I think we can make a safe assumption it was if he used the exchanges he hates so much.

    As it was Goldman Sachs who were previously paying for his wife's healthcare, I'd say the Cruz's had a pretty sweet deal. Trying to find the equivalent privately would probably cost them a lot more than they are willing to pay.

    It makes sense then that they've opted to go with the exchanges for better value. After all thats what the market place concept was designed to do.


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    #401
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Sad state of affairs that the Democrats have no Plan B for 2016, and have put all their eggs into the Hillary Clinton basket. With all the problems she’s now facing, President Obama should go Full-Ford, and with stroke of the pen issue a Presidential Pardon to Hillary for any crimes she may have committed in regards to her emails as SoS, Benghazi, and pay-to-play irregularities with the Clinton Foundation. No need to be cleared by a federal judge, no consent of Senate or the DOJ needed, and save us all much drama. Scandals (or crimes) eliminated... full steam ahead into the White House.


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    #402
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    Brian? wrote: »
    I think we can make a safe assumption it was if he used the exchanges he hates so much.

    The HuffPuff has a slightly different take:
    jason@huffingtonpost.com wrote:
    Going "on Obamacare" will allow him to deepen his relationship with the people who hate the law out of suspicion, while simultaneously allowing him to claim himself as one of those aforementioned, non-elite Americans "on the federal exchange." That's no mean feat, considering that the only reason he's forced to make a choice in health insurance at all is because his wife is taking a leave of absence from her job at Goldman Sachs.

    So, not a hypocritical cheapskate, so much as a hypocritical stuntsman.


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    #403
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,236 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    alaimacerc wrote: »
    So, not a hypocritical cheapskate, so much as a hypocritical stuntsman.

    It's all impression management, with consultants and advertising that will approach $1 billion USD in costs for each of the finalist Democrat and Republican nominees for president in 2016. It makes you wonder what the American voter is buying? Wolves in what kind of clothing? And what do the campaign donors and special interests want in return for these massive contributions?


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    #404
    Paleface
    Registered Users Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭Paleface


    Well publicised in advance, Rand Paul today announced his campaign for POTUS.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32197054

    Like Cruz I can't see him winning although I do believe he will garner more attention than his father ever did. He's a bit more watered down and is more concerned with winning than sticking to Libertarian ideals.


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    #405
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,236 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Paleface wrote: »
    Well publicised in advance, Rand Paul today announced his campaign for POTUS.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32197054

    Like Cruz I can't see him winning although I do believe he will garner more attention than his father ever did. He's a bit more watered down and is more concerned with winning than sticking to Libertarian ideals.
    I agree with you that Rand Paul is unlikely to achieve the GOP nomination during the primaries, and he may know this (without admitting it), but he may be subtly positioning himself for VP running mate with Jeb Bush, just like Cruz may be doing. Either Cruz or Paul would improve Jeb Bush's position with the Republicans, offering an opportunity for more party unification before November 2016.


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    #406
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Running for president is a big money spinner. Newt Gingrich did it a few times. Raise money and spend it on your own campaign company.


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    #407
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Carly Fiorina has been showing up on the radar as of late. There are rumors of a run for president. I don't think she has any chance for the top spot, but she should continue to get her message out. As an outsider, she's intriguing and I like what she has to say. She would make an interesting pick for the GOP VP slot, and a counter to Hillary's allure to women.


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    #408
    Playboy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Amerika wrote: »
    Carly Fiorina has been showing up on the radar as of late. There are rumors of a run for president. I don't think she has any chance for the top spot, but she should continue to get her message out. As an outsider, she's intriguing and I like what she has to say. She would make an interesting pick for the GOP VP slot, and a counter to Hillary's allure to women.

    Is that the woman who used to be CEO of HP? She has a terrible reputation in the business/tech world. I still hear her name from time to time as I do work with HP, no one has anything ever good to say about her. Didnt even know she was in Politics!


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    #409
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,920 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Widely regarded as one of the worst managers of any of the major companies of recent times. Cut thousands of workers, severely demoralized the rest, slashed everything but did it all in such an incompetent way that she managed to half the shareprice and leave the company in a weaker state with little chance of recovery to where it was. She comes out on top on various worst manager polls and has managed to move HP over to the worst places to work lists from the best a few years ago. Not a hope in hell of her getting anything off the ground.


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    #410
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Hurt by price wars in the computer industry HP had to cut jobs before the HP/Compaq merger. Compaq was also hurting from the competition. More elimination of jobs was inevitable at both companies even if the merger never happened.

    And wasn’t the failure of the HP/Compaq merger primarily due to the bitter infighting and poor cultural fit (engineering-driven culture versus sales-driven culture) of the newly merged company? And once they made significant cultural and leadership changes HP went on to long-term success.

    I buy HP computers and printers today. I don’t believe HP had a PC before the Compaq merger. How many PC companies are gone since 2000?

    Hmmm... And why don’t we ever seem to hear of all the good she did during her almost 20 years at AT&T?

    Perhaps we should listen to some of what she has to say, before taking on the job of Fiornia's judge, jury and executioner.



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    #411
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    Hurt by price wars in the computer industry HP had to cut jobs before the HP/Compaq merger. Compaq was also hurting from the competition. More elimination of jobs was inevitable at both companies even if the merger never happened.

    And wasn’t the failure of the HP/Compaq merger primarily due to the bitter infighting and poor cultural fit (engineering-driven culture versus sales-driven culture) of the newly merged company? And once they made significant cultural and leadership changes HP went on to long-term success.

    I buy HP computers and printers today. I don’t believe HP had a PC before the Compaq merger. How many PC companies are gone since 2000?

    Hmmm... And why don’t we ever seem to hear of all the good she did during her almost 20 years at AT&T?

    Perhaps we should listen to some of what she has to say, before taking on the job of Fiornia's judge, jury and executioner.


    Am I correct in saying she lost the only time she contested an election?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #412
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    Am I correct in saying she lost the only time she contested an election?

    If you mean did she lose the election, running as a relatively unknown Republican in the deepest darkest bluest section of California's Liberal Land, to one of the most prominent incumbent Democrat stalwarts in Barbara Boxer... I guess the answer is yes.

    In retrospect, she should have started with something easier... Like cure cancer.


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    #413
    MightyMandarin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭MightyMandarin


    It's still a 0% win rate in elections. Why on earth would she think she can get elected to the highest office in the land if she's never won an election before.


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    #414
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    It's still a 0% win rate in elections. Why on earth would she think she can get elected to the highest office in the land if she's never won an election before.
    Perhaps she thinks people are sick and tired of electing career politicians... and we'll finally wise up and give someone a chance with executive experience who’s message and drive would move the country forward instead of backward.


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    #415
    MightyMandarin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭MightyMandarin


    Amerika wrote: »
    Perhaps she thinks people are sick and tired of electing career politicians... and we'll finally wise up and give someone a chance with executive experience who’s message and drive would move the country forward instead of backward.

    I'm sure she'd drive the country in the same direction she drove HP in.


    If you'd love to elect a non-career politician so much, what about Warren? 1 term in the Senate is hardly a career, and she's a self-made person who's also a legal expert. She's like a Hillary but without the boring personality.


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    #416
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    If you mean did she lose the election, running as a relatively unknown Republican in the deepest darkest bluest section of California's Liberal Land, to one of the most prominent incumbent Democrat stalwarts in Barbara Boxer... I guess the answer is yes.

    In retrospect, she should have started with something easier... Like cure cancer.

    So that's a yes?

    If she was so keen on politics why the high risk strategy of running a race she couldn't win?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #417
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    Perhaps she thinks people are sick and tired of electing career politicians... and we'll finally wise up and give someone a chance with executive experience who’s message and drive would move the country forward instead of backward.

    Very noble I'm sure. Didn't she I negative very early against her opponents in the primaries? Very refreshing.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #418
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    If you'd love to elect a non-career politician so much, what about Warren? 1 term in the Senate is hardly a career, and she's a self-made person who's also a legal expert. She's like a Hillary but without the boring personality.

    No thank you. Elizabeth Warren is dangerously wrong on just about everything. (Including her heritage. ;))

    Plus... We elected a 1 term Senator the last time, and look how horrible THAT turned out!


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    #419
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    So that's a yes?

    If she was so keen on politics why the high risk strategy of running a race she couldn't win?

    Simple... Get her message out and future recognition/aspirations potential. We're talking about her now, aren't we?


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    #420
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,236 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Amerika wrote: »
    Perhaps she thinks people are sick and tired of electing career politicians...
    Like electing yet another member of the Bush Dynasty or Clinton Machine, both Jeb Bush and Hilliary Clinton "career politicians" that are BOTH boring and unimaginative?


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    #421
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    Very noble I'm sure. Didn't she I negative very early against her opponents in the primaries? Very refreshing.
    Political inexperience I'd say.


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