Most Crazy Example of Irish Railway Walter Mittyism?

ClovenHoof

Mine has to be the guy who was going to purchase NIR back in the 1990's and convert the entire network to the 'same gauge as the mainland' to run container trains.

He was given a sizeable media platform and I even recall the British railway magazines posting the idea making comments such as 'The GWR changed gauge in a weekend..." Even the IRRS Newsletter gave him a fair hearing and report. Big money was forthcoming, all the plans and customers in place, etc

Turned out he was just some guy with a photo-copied letter head and a pound in his bank account and nothing else.

L1011

"Local lines" or whatever the crayon and PowerPoint proposal to reopen virtually every closed line as a luas. Media covered what was basically someone drawing over the viceregal commission map as a real possibility.

Judgement Day

This crowd would qualify for a Walter Mitty award. http://blog.tralee.org/?s=tralee+dingle+railway

corktina

the only advantage having the same gauge as Mainland Europe (see what I did there?) is being able to ship in stock secondhand or off the shelf when the need arises. Until the bridge or tunnel is built there is no point in changing the gauge.

Judgement Day

And not forgetting Mr.Trebus..:D

whisky_galore

Judgement Day wrote: »

This crowd would qualify for a Walter Mitty award. http://blog.tralee.org/?s=tralee+dingle+railway

Call it a hunch, but think that site didn't have an update with quite some time.

Recall hearing another madcap scheme to relay the Valentia branch to metre gauge and re-open it. Not surprisingly nothing came of it.

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

This crowd would qualify for a Walter Mitty award. http://blog.tralee.org/?s=tralee+dingle+railway

to be fair they DO have a loco on actual tracks... or some of it at least

KCAccidental

MYOB wrote: »

"Local lines" or whatever the crayon and PowerPoint proposal to reopen virtually every closed line as a luas. Media covered what was basically someone drawing over the viceregal commission map as a real possibility.

http://www.invectis.co.uk/cork/Local%20Lines%20WEST%20CORK%20RAIL.pdf

utterly feasible

ClovenHoof

KCAccidental wrote: »

http://www.invectis.co.uk/cork/Local%20Lines%20WEST%20CORK%20RAIL.pdf

utterly feasible

We have a winner!

Judgement Day

I like the West Cork 'plan' but it will never happen. Light rail on the Cork, Blackrock & Passage formation would be nice though.

roundymac

Judgement Day wrote: »

I like the West Cork 'plan' but it will never happen. Light rail on the Cork, Blackrock & Passage formation would be nice though.

Not a hope:(, pedestrians now have possesion of that line. You won't shift them too easily.

roundymac

I remember a piece on one of the local papers, examiner/echo can't remember which reported on "the proposed tunnell" between Rosslare and Fishguard costing slightly more than what the channel tunnell was just after costing, despite the Rosslare-Fishguard one being 30-40 miles longer. Must have been a very quite news day.

whisky_galore

What about our 'friends' in the New Ross branch group? Shouldn't they be relaying track right about now?
Oh right....

run_Forrest_run

roundymac wrote: »

Not a hope:(, pedestrians now have possesion of that line. You won't shift them too easily.

I think they would happily shift if it meant less traffic chaos along there in the mornings!

Stovepipe

Doesn't need to be Walter Mitty stuff, either. What about the Luas shunting engine that didn't match the Luas guage. It had about ten feet of rail to itself and could go nowhere.

regards
Stovepipe

whisky_galore

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

I think they would happily shift if it meant less traffic chaos along there in the mornings!

No, used mainly for 'leisure'. Think you'll get a lot of cyclists, joggers/runners, dog walkers, moms and pops with strollers objecting.

ClovenHoof

Stovepipe wrote: »

Doesn't need to be Walter Mitty stuff, either. What about the Luas shunting engine that didn't match the Luas guage. It had about ten feet of rail to itself and could go nowhere.

regards
Stovepipe

Any more info on this?

Grandeeod

Stovepipe wrote: »

Doesn't need to be Walter Mitty stuff, either. What about the Luas shunting engine that didn't match the Luas guage. It had about ten feet of rail to itself and could go nowhere.

regards
Stovepipe

I think you are talking about the two diesel units that luas contractors used during construction. They were always of the 4ft 8 1/2 gauge.

ClovenHoof

Stovepipe must be an Irish newspaper journalist. 'Luas is the wrong gauge...' etc.

I recall two German diesel locomotives on the LUAS Green Line.

seagoebox

What about the driving trailer purchased by NIR that never turned a wheel in service?, and surely the Gatwicks barely earned the cost of repainting !
The proposed driving trailer project from the International Mark 3 set must also have soaked up quite a bit of money.

Grandeeod

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Stovepipe must be an Irish newspaper journalist. 'Luas is the wrong gauge...' etc.

I recall two German diesel locomotives on the LUAS Green Line.

Nearly.:D

France. Apparently one of them is at the Red Cow depot to this day.

end of the road

whisky_galore wrote: »

No, used mainly for 'leisure'. Think you'll get a lot of cyclists, joggers/runners, dog walkers, moms and pops with strollers objecting.

fcuk them. they can object away if they want, but if a light rail system is ever to be put along the route then along the route it will go and they will have to get over it and walk somewhere else.

end of the road

Grandeeod wrote: »

Nearly.

France. Apparently one of them is at the Red Cow depot to this day.

any idea what happened the other one?

Stovepipe

It's true.Unbelievers! Friend of mine was working there and showed me pics of them. Luas was full of stuff like that, such as Spanish and french carriages being wired differently so that they could not be hooked up so a tram had to be all-French or all-Spanish but not both.

ClovenHoof

Stovepipe wrote: »

It's true.Unbelievers! Friend of mine was working there and showed me pics of them. Luas was full of stuff like that, such as Spanish and french carriages being wired differently so that they could not be hooked up so a tram had to be all-French or all-Spanish but not both.

LOL!

Grandeeod

Stovepipe wrote: »

It's true.Unbelievers! Friend of mine was working there and showed me pics of them. Luas was full of stuff like that, such as Spanish and french carriages being wired differently so that they could not be hooked up so a tram had to be all-French or all-Spanish but not both.

I'm not sure LOL is good enough for that, as it sounds like absolute BS.

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

any idea what happened the other one?

Vandalised.

whisky_galore

end of the road wrote: »

fcuk them. they can object away if they want, but if a light rail system is ever to be put along the route then along the route it will go and they will have to get over it and walk somewhere else.

Very good. What will you be financing this project with? Shirtbuttons perhaps?

KCAccidental

end of the road wrote: »

fcuk them. they can object away if they want, but if a light rail system is ever to be put along the route then along the route it will go and they will have to get over it and walk somewhere else.

It's a moot point anyways. I'm fairly sure Sewage pipes were installed under the path when the new system was built in the late 90's. Can't build over them!

end of the road

whisky_galore wrote: »

Very good. What will you be financing this project with? Shirtbuttons perhaps?

em, nothing? did you read the post? i said "if a light rail system is ever to be put along the route" not "a light rail system is going to be put along the route" . but thats not going to happen so it doesn't matter

whisky_galore

end of the road wrote: »

em, nothing?

Nothing will come of nothing. That's your first stumbling block before you even consider pipes or walkers. You seem to have the notion that walkers and cyclists have no lobbying power and can be brushed aside, you've probably never heard of a bunch called Sustrans....

Stovepipe

@grandeeod, it's all true. My contact in there was quite high up and had to deal with a lot of the problems. Incompatible carriages was common, as was incompatible parts on the cars themselves. The story of the shunting engines is true. Quite simply, I have no need to come on here and tell porkies. Plenty of other LUAS stories out there...

end of the road

whisky_galore wrote: »

You seem to have the notion that walkers and cyclists have no lobbying power and can be brushed aside.

they can. but it would take someone with balls to do it admittedly.

whisky_galore wrote: »

you've probably never heard of a bunch called Sustrans....

yes i have. and frankly if someone really has the balls to, the likes of them can be took on and beaten. as i said, if the relevant authorities want to build a railway along a route that happens to be used by cyclists then built it will be. and yes i did say building a railway along this particular route won't happen in my second post

Grandeeod

Stovepipe wrote: »

@grandeeod, it's all true. My contact in there was quite high up and had to deal with a lot of the problems. Incompatible carriages was common, as was incompatible parts on the cars themselves. The story of the shunting engines is true. Quite simply, I have no need to come on here and tell porkies. Plenty of other LUAS stories out there...

Stick to the story about the shunting engines and explain it.

the_syco

Grandeeod wrote: »

Nearly.:D

France. Apparently one of them is at the Red Cow depot to this day.

Small little thing;
http://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/LUAS/Red-Cow-LUAS-Depot/i-fVM6CR3

Grandeeod

Thats her!

Grandeeod

Now is stovepipe talking about this?

http://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/LUAS/Red-Cow-LUAS-Depot/i-dxswqtL

end of the road

what i've found with a little googling. she dates from the 1960s. built by B Richard of St Denis de l'hotel. other loco was dumped and as said in this thread vandelized sadly. would be nice to find out where she is now.

L1011

Grandeeod wrote: »

Now is stovepipe talking about this?

http://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/LUAS/Red-Cow-LUAS-Depot/i-dxswqtL

That's actually Irish built, unilokomotiv in Tuam. Town with no active railway and building non Irish gauge gear!

Cyberbeagle

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Mine has to be the guy who was going to purchase NIR back in the 1990's and convert the entire network to the 'same gauge as the mainland' to run container trains.

He was given a sizeable media platform and I even recall the British railway magazines posting the idea making comments such as 'The GWR changed gauge in a weekend..." Even the IRRS Newsletter gave him a fair hearing and report. Big money was forthcoming, all the plans and customers in place, etc

Turned out he was just some guy with a photo-copied letter head and a pound in his bank account and nothing else.

The BCDR-MT/Eurotrack Ireland/Belfast Express Transit/Great Northern Ireland Railway (whatever Mr Pue is calling himself these days) are still going "strong".

Here's his submission to the DRD Railway Investment consultation:

drdni.gov.uk/response_33_-_bob_pue_-_belfast_express_transit.pdf

And newish plans for Donaghadee:

ards-council.gov.uk/Downloads/Your-Council/Development-Committee/2014-03-19-Development

You'll need to cut and paste those into your browser as this board won't let them appear as hyperlinks for some reason

Grandeeod

Cyberbeagle wrote: »

The BCDR-MT/Eurotrack Ireland/Belfast Express Transit/Great Northern Ireland Railway (whatever Mr Pue is calling himself these days) are still going "strong".

Here's his submission to the DRD Railway Investment consultation:

drdni.gov.uk/response_33_-_bob_pue_-_belfast_express_transit.pdf

And newish plans for Donaghadee:

ards-council.gov.uk/Downloads/Your-Council/Development-Committee/2014-03-19-Development

You'll need to cut and paste those into your browser as this board won't let them appear as hyperlinks for some reason

Please stop.:D

Banjoxed

MYOB wrote: »

That's actually Irish built, unilokomotiv in Tuam. Town with no active railway and building non Irish gauge gear!

How very dare they!

whisky_galore

Cyberbeagle wrote: »

The BCDR-MT/Eurotrack Ireland/Belfast Express Transit/Great Northern Ireland Railway (whatever Mr Pue is calling himself these days) are still going "strong".

Here's his submission to the DRD Railway Investment consultation:

drdni.gov.uk/response_33_-_bob_pue_-_belfast_express_transit.pdf

And newish plans for Donaghadee:

ards-council.gov.uk/Downloads/Your-Council/Development-Committee/2014-03-19-Development

You'll need to cut and paste those into your browser as this board won't let them appear as hyperlinks for some reason

I think we have a winner. Up against some pretty stiff opposition though.

MGWR

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Mine has to be the guy who was going to purchase NIR back in the 1990's and convert the entire network to the 'same gauge as the mainland' to run container trains.

He was given a sizeable media platform and I even recall the British railway magazines posting the idea making comments such as 'The GWR changed gauge in a weekend..." Even the IRRS Newsletter gave him a fair hearing and report. Big money was forthcoming, all the plans and customers in place, etc

Turned out he was just some guy with a photo-copied letter head and a pound in his bank account and nothing else

For as many Walter Mittys, how many actual investors have been turned away by the central planners of the governments of both the Republic and the North with respect to actually doing something worthwhile with the railway system?

While it is true that the GWR did change gauge as rapidly as your example claimed, the Erie Railroad and Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railway in the USA both changed gauge from 6 feet to 4' 8.5" in one day. See what can be done with the government out of the way?

L1011

Few to none, I'd guess

purplepanda

More pie in the sky proposals ..........! http://www.munster-express.ie/business/rail-revolution-proposed-for-city-tramore-and-wexford/

Judgement Day

purplepanda wrote: »

More pie in the sky proposals ..........! http://www.munster-express.ie/business/rail-revolution-proposed-for-city-tramore-and-wexford/

The Waterford & Tramore should never have been closed but this sort of nonsense is never going to happen.

end of the road

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Waterford & Tramore should never have been closed but this sort of nonsense is never going to happen.

shur twas making money wannit? and it was in the southeast. so it definitely had to go.

Grandeeod

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Waterford & Tramore should never have been closed but this sort of nonsense is never going to happen.

Waterford - Tramore was a bit like Dublin's Harcourt street line. While I have spent many years bewildered by the stupidity, it's only in more recent years that I can fully understand and disagree with, the political motivations that CIE were happy to follow.

As for that 4 year old proposal, it's yet more Gluas and light rail for West Cork baloney.

ClovenHoof

Grandeeod wrote: »

Waterford - Tramore was a bit like Dublin's Harcourt street line. While I have spent many years bewildered by the stupidity, it's only in more recent years that I can fully understand and disagree with, the political motivations that CIE were happy to follow.

As for that 4 year old proposal, it's yet more Gluas and light rail for West Cork baloney.

CIE closed the line for the simple reason it was not 'standard' - which in reality means it was not a GSR line. When CIE was formed the GSR majority management sought to ethnically cleanse the MGW and the DUT and all other 'rivals' from the network. Which is why the Burma Road joke stayed and the Waterford-Tramore and Harcourt Street was closed.

I am convinced that if the GNR had not remained independent until almost 1960, the Dublin-Belfast line would have been closed by CIE.

end of the road

ClovenHoof wrote: »

CIE closed the line for the simple reason it was not 'standard' - which in reality means it was not a GSR line. When CIE was formed the GSR majority management sought to ethnically cleanse the MGW and the DUT and all other 'rivals' from the network. Which is why the Burma Road joke stayed and the Waterford-Tramore and Harcourt Street was closed.

I am convinced that if the GNR had not remained independent until almost 1960, the Dublin-Belfast line would have been closed by CIE.

nothing would surprise me. the whole history surrounding all this is interesting though, specially the what iffs and what could have beens. i don't know if i'm the only one, but i think the UTA were way worse then CIE, i think had they not been stopped NI would have had no railway, the fact they shut and ripped up more lines just as they were to be replaced shows the mentality they had. at least now NIR/translink see the value in what they have and are trying to improve things.