irish water,

5150time

This maybe of interest,
to be copied and sent back to irish water along with the their information pack, No sign No Contract

To whom it may concern,

I recently received a communication from your company looking for certain information from me regarding my household i.e. requesting means of payment information from me and requesting me to sign a document stating that I the householder was in agreement with you billing me for water supplied.
Unfortunately I am not in a position to supply this information or sign this agreement.
I would like for you to understand why I am in the position not to do this.
Firstly the form you sent out is in effect a contract. By law a contract is a document whereby both parties are in agreement with the particulars laid down in the document and are aligned regarding the terms and conditions of the information contained within the document.
This is not the case with the document you sent to my house. This document is a contract biased against the householder in favor of Irish water.
This document does not in any way or form represent the views or concerns of the second party (me) who is being asked to sign.
There is no information within the document that pertains to what rate I the home owner will be charged. How this rate will be calculated. What allowances I will be given and what guarantees I will have in relation to supply or service.
As per the water services act 2013 Irish water will provide:
[2013.] Water services Act 2013 [No.6.] Pr.4 S.
(a) functions relating to the fixing of charges in respect of the
provision of such water services,
(b) the specification of minimum standards of service as
respects the provision of such water services,
(c) the protection of the interests of persons to whom water
services are provided;
Regarding section (a) as stated earlier there was no information contained in the document you sent to me stating what the rate for water usage would be yet you asked me for a means of payment i.e. looking for bank details for a direct debit! This would be the same as my purchasing a car and not agreeing the monthly payment but rather giving my bank details and giving the creditor Cart Blanche to take whatever he wanted out of my account.
You have also asked for the PPS numbers of all people resident within my household. Why you need this information is beyond me as if this was a fact finding document the information could easily be given.
Also according to the dept. Of Social Protection:
2.1.1 Who can use the PPS Number?
The PPS No. replaced the Revenue and Social Insurance Number (RSI No.) that was only used in relation to transactions with Revenue and the Department of Social Protection. The PPS Number can be used by:
Any organisation listed in legislation, e.g. a Government Department or Health Service Executive.
Any person or body authorised by a public body to do so.
Any person who has a transaction with a public body
2.1.2 Who cannot use the PPS Number?
Private companies or bodies, other than in transactions with public bodies
Any person or body not authorised under legislation to do so.
As Irish Water is a private company you are not entitled to this information and I could find no evidence within the Water services Act 2013 to state otherwise. So why are you looking for it?
Regarding section (b) this related to your guarantee relating to the type of service I can expect from your company in respect to water supplied to my dwelling. There is no detail covering this item provided in the documentation sent to me.
And finally section (c) the protection of the interests of the persons to who water service is provided, I am assuming this covers a broad spectrum including health and safety i.e. the purity and condition of the water you are supplying. None of my concerns have been addressed here i.e. the amount or fluoride that is added to the water being supplied which is well in excess of European counterparts and has been proven to cause a degree of docility within people which this present government would be happy to allow to continue.
If there is an issue with water supplied that negates people from drinking it without first boiling will they still have to pay?
So far you have failed to meet any of the expectations set out for you in the Water services act 2013 and you have sought information from people you are not entitled to.
There are also a few other issues I have in relation to this unfair charge that both this government and Irish water are trying to impose on me.
You say that there is a cost in supplying water to the people of this country yet Irish Water in their wisdom or arrogance decided to spend in excess of €150 million on a system for Irish Water that was already in place i.e. clone the system used by Bord Gais.
Had this €150 million been invested in repairing the infrastructure that is currently allowing 40%+ of water leak to ground you could have cut the cost of producing water by up to 33% but instead it was used to appease wealthy cronies.
There is also the case of the multimillion Euro gym Irish Water has built for its workers. Would it not have been cheaper to simply pay the fee to a local gym as a BIK to the employee? Is it now the case that the cost of this luxury will be passed onto the customer?
Will it not also be the case as it is with Bord Gais and the ESB or Electric Ireland that all workers will have the luxury of paying less for the service their house receives through either lower payments or increased allowances?
Do I the customer feel that the revenues collected by Irish Water will be used for their true purpose i.e. providing a robust water delivery system with no leaks?
Clean pure water (less fluoride on par with Europe), improved reservoirs and an assurance that my service will not suffer?
The answer to these questions is no. These revenues will be used to bay huge bonuses, cover lavish expenses and covering the cost of subsidizing the Irish Water employees and the political masters who put this company in place.
As usual it is the ordinary person of the state that will suffer through increased costs and diminished service.
If you wish for me to sign any form of agreement or contract relating to the supply of water to my house then I wish it to be a contract drawn up between me and Irish Water detailing the expectations from Irish Water as a service supplier, incorporating my concerns as a customer and Irish Water’s agreement that my concerns will be resolved prior to any payment.

Yours Sincerely

Dark Stanley.

Well worth reading. 2% on VAT, and 5% on motor tax, That's how we've paid for water since 1997.


Local Government (Financial Services) act 1997.

For Forks Sake

More guff for the Freeman thread I think.

cloud493

Can someone summarise that for me? Big wall of text.

gramar

Ah will ya fcuk off with dat shyte.

PizzamanIRL

cloud493 wrote: »

Can someone summarise that for me? Big wall of text.

"We shouldn't pay for our water rabble rabble rabble"

Berserker

cloud493 wrote: »

Can someone summarise that for me? Big wall of text.

Punctuation isn't the writer's strong point either.

dxhound2005

5150time wrote: »

I recently received a communication from your company looking for certain information from me regarding my household i.e. requesting means of payment information from me and requesting me to sign a document stating that I the householder was in agreement with you billing me for water supplied.

I read as far as the above and knew then that whoever composes it doesn't know what they are writing about. There is no space for a signature anywhere on the IW application.

You posted this previously on 30 Sept. It is still wrong now.

Berserker

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I read as far as the above and knew then that whoever composes it doesn't know what they are writing about. There is no space for a signature anywhere on the IW application.

Correct, come to think of it. I filled this out for my parents last week online.

KomradeBishop

More for my own benefit, so I can actually read the post - paragraphed etc:

---

This maybe of interest, to be copied and sent back to irish water along with the their information pack, No sign No Contract


To whom it may concern,
I recently received a communication from your company looking for certain information from me regarding my household i.e. requesting means of payment information from me and requesting me to sign a document stating that I the householder was in agreement with you billing me for water supplied.
Unfortunately I am not in a position to supply this information or sign this agreement.

I would like for you to understand why I am in the position not to do this.
Firstly the form you sent out is in effect a contract. By law a contract is a document whereby both parties are in agreement with the particulars laid down in the document and are aligned regarding the terms and conditions of the information contained within the document.

This is not the case with the document you sent to my house. This document is a contract biased against the householder in favor of Irish water.
This document does not in any way or form represent the views or concerns of the second party (me) who is being asked to sign.

There is no information within the document that pertains to what rate I the home owner will be charged. How this rate will be calculated. What allowances I will be given and what guarantees I will have in relation to supply or service.


As per the water services act 2013 Irish water will provide:
[2013.] Water services Act 2013 [No.6.] Pr.4 S.
(a) functions relating to the fixing of charges in respect of the provision of such water services,
(b) the specification of minimum standards of service as respects the provision of such water services,
(c) the protection of the interests of persons to whom water services are provided;

Regarding section (a) as stated earlier there was no information contained in the document you sent to me stating what the rate for water usage would be yet you asked me for a means of payment i.e. looking for bank details for a direct debit!
This would be the same as my purchasing a car and not agreeing the monthly payment but rather giving my bank details and giving the creditor Cart Blanche to take whatever he wanted out of my account.

You have also asked for the PPS numbers of all people resident within my household. Why you need this information is beyond me as if this was a fact finding document the information could easily be given.


Also according to the dept. Of Social Protection:
2.1.1 Who can use the PPS Number?
The PPS No. replaced the Revenue and Social Insurance Number (RSI No.) that was only used in relation to transactions with Revenue and the Department of Social Protection. The PPS Number can be used by:
Any organisation listed in legislation, e.g. a Government Department or Health Service Executive.
Any person or body authorised by a public body to do so.
Any person who has a transaction with a public body

2.1.2 Who cannot use the PPS Number?
Private companies or bodies, other than in transactions with public bodies
Any person or body not authorised under legislation to do so.


As Irish Water is a private company you are not entitled to this information and I could find no evidence within the Water services Act 2013 to state otherwise. So why are you looking for it?

Regarding section (b) this related to your guarantee relating to the type of service I can expect from your company in respect to water supplied to my dwelling. There is no detail covering this item provided in the documentation sent to me.
And finally section (c) the protection of the interests of the persons to who water service is provided, I am assuming this covers a broad spectrum including health and safety i.e. the purity and condition of the water you are supplying.

None of my concerns have been addressed here i.e. the amount or fluoride that is added to the water being supplied which is well in excess of European counterparts and has been proven to cause a degree of docility within people which this present government would be happy to allow to continue. B]KB: Yes, probably freeman/CT nonsense then. This statement makes it pretty hard to trust any other statement made in the post.[/B

If there is an issue with water supplied that negates people from drinking it without first boiling will they still have to pay?


So far you have failed to meet any of the expectations set out for you in the Water services act 2013 and you have sought information from people you are not entitled to.
There are also a few other issues I have in relation to this unfair charge that both this government and Irish water are trying to impose on me.

You say that there is a cost in supplying water to the people of this country yet Irish Water in their wisdom or arrogance decided to spend in excess of €150 million on a system for Irish Water that was already in place i.e. clone the system used by Bord Gais.

Had this €150 million been invested in repairing the infrastructure that is currently allowing 40%+ of water leak to ground you could have cut the cost of producing water by up to 33% but instead it was used to appease wealthy cronies.


There is also the case of the multimillion Euro gym Irish Water has built for its workers. Would it not have been cheaper to simply pay the fee to a local gym as a BIK to the employee? Is it now the case that the cost of this luxury will be passed onto the customer?

Will it not also be the case as it is with Bord Gais and the ESB or Electric Ireland that all workers will have the luxury of paying less for the service their house receives through either lower payments or increased allowances?

Do I the customer feel that the revenues collected by Irish Water will be used for their true purpose i.e. providing a robust water delivery system with no leaks?
Clean pure water (less fluoride on par with Europe), improved reservoirs and an assurance that my service will not suffer?

The answer to these questions is no. These revenues will be used to bay huge bonuses, cover lavish expenses and covering the cost of subsidizing the Irish Water employees and the political masters who put this company in place.

As usual it is the ordinary person of the state that will suffer through increased costs and diminished service.


If you wish for me to sign any form of agreement or contract relating to the supply of water to my house then I wish it to be a contract drawn up between me and Irish Water detailing the expectations from Irish Water as a service supplier, incorporating my concerns as a customer and Irish Water’s agreement that my concerns will be resolved prior to any payment.

Yours Sincerely

Timberrrrrrrr

Even paragraphed (thanks btw) it's still a wall of ****e.

Satriale

Forget that crap, just throw the pack in the bin, contact your local td and tell them you wont be voting for anybody that supports water charges in the upcoming General Election.

Phoebas

Aren't there already 3 or 4 threads for this?

Donkey Oaty

5150time wrote: »

This maybe of interest

Ten out of ten for optimism, anyway.

The Moldy Gowl

****ing hippies

Rightwing

Even PS apologists admit Ir water is a rip off.

The Moldy Gowl

Rightwing wrote: »

Even PS apologists admit Ir water is a rip off.

Play station? Infrared?

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

Aren't there already 3 or 4 threads for this?

I'd say one or two from the more than a million people that didn't submit their details must have read at least one or two of them.

The negative attention isn't wanted?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It might be of interest to the OP that there is a mega thread for this sh**e.

As for others copying it. Even if they wanted to be associated with such an inaccurate and waffling piece if literature, I think anybody in Irish Water would read the first line and bin it as yet another of those long winded badly written protest letters copied from a forum somewhere.

Rightwing

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Play station? Infrared?

Quick learner.

Chuckle chuckle.

Berserker

KomradeBishop wrote: »

None of my concerns have been addressed here i.e. the amount or fluoride that is added to the water being supplied which is well in excess of European counterparts and has been proven to cause a degree of docility within people which this present government would be happy to allow to continue.

That's a new one. You have to admire the imagination of these people.

Banjo String

Maurice Panicky Side wrote: »

It might be of interest to the OP that there is a mega thread for this sh**e.

As for others copying it. Even if they wanted to be associated with such an inaccurate and waffling piece if literature, I think anybody in Irish Water would read the first line and bin it as yet another of those long winded badly written protest letters copied from a forum somewhere.

Like they've did with their application packs?

One million households have failed to register with the beleaguered semi-state company Irish Water, the Irish Independent has learned.

Just 500,000 people have signed up with the utility, and the low take-up has forced it to seek permission from the regulator to extend the registration deadline to November 29.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-water-crisis-as-1m-fail-to-sign-up-for-charges-30680206.html

The Moldy Gowl

Rightwing wrote: »

Quick learner.

Chuckle chuckle.

Lol??

Berserker

Maurice Panicky Side wrote: »

As for others copying it. Even if they wanted to be associated with such an inaccurate and waffling piece if literature, I think anybody in Irish Water would read the first line and bin it as yet another of those long winded badly written protest letters copied from a forum somewhere.

If I worked the IW, I would create a "crazy letters of protest" noticeboard and pin a copy of the OP's post and all the other protest letters on it. It'd made great entertainment on a Friday evening.

Sir Osis of Liver.

I prefer Ballygowan over that Tipperary Spring piss.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Banjo String wrote: »

Like they've did with their application packs?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-water-crisis-as-1m-fail-to-sign-up-for-charges-30680206.html

That's irrelevant to my comment on the naive and badly written opus that the OP suggested.
If I want another rant on the pros or cons of Irish water I'll read the dedicated thread on it?

But keep sparking the revolution, it might actually ignite or splutter to life sometime.

Banjo String

Maurice Panicky Side wrote: »

That's irrelevant to my comment on the naive and badly written opus that the OP suggested.
If I want another rant on the pros or cons of Irish water I'll read the dedicated thread on it?

You don't see the relevance in your post about binning inaccuracies and waffling literature, and my post about a million people refusing to fill out and return a load of inaccurate waffling shıte from Irish Water?

That's reasonable I suppose.

Maurice Panicky Side wrote: »

But keep sparking the revolution, it might actually ignite or splutter to life sometime.

I think Pandora's box has been opened on this one already.

November the first will see some of the biggest protests this country has seen in decades.

KomradeBishop

Berserker wrote: »

That's a new one. You have to admire the imagination of these people.

Wrong 'posted by' Ya though, I don't understand how anybody can end up believing the water fluoridation nonsense - it takes no time at all, to do a quick Google and see that it's just CT stuff.

kneemos

Hopefully the protestors do get a victory if only because of the total mess that has been made of a simple process.
I suspect they thought it go as smoothly as the household charge.

Rightwing

kneemos wrote: »

Hopefully the protestors do get a victory if only because of the total mess that has been made of a simple process.
I suspect they thought it go as smoothly as the household charge.

They've achieved a victory already, Government are scrambling to save face.

LizT

Irish water megathread.