Gatso vans location selection

Curly head

Hi all
On a separate note , does anybody know who actually decides where the gatso vans set up their checkpoints?

BuffyBot

Moved to Motors from C&T

mikeecho

All gatso vans were retired 5 or 6 years back.

The garda vans, (robot vans) , their locations are determined by the gardai.

The gosafe van locations, are decided by the gardai.

So in conclusion, ... the gardai

Murt10

mikeecho wrote: »

The garda vans, (robot vans) , their locations are determined by the gardai.

The gosafe van locations, are decided by the gardai.

So in conclusion, ... the gardai

Hopefully, now that they can no longer have (their own, friends, relatives etc) points and fines wiped with just a press of a button/phone call, perhaps they will consider putting them in more appropriate places, rather than in some stupid location where the camera is shooting fish in a barrel.

mikeecho

Murt10 wrote: »

Hopefully, now that they can no longer have (their own, friends, relatives etc) points and fines wiped with just a press of a button/phone call, perhaps they will consider putting them in more appropriate places, rather than in some stupid location where the camera is shooting fish in a barrel.

Hey, it's a big frucking van, they are easy to spot.
thats why the gosafe vans only catch on average 2 per hour.

It's that 2per hour that must be completely oblivious to their surroundings.

RustyNut

Murt10 wrote: »

Hopefully, now that they can no longer have (their own, friends, relatives etc) points and fines wiped with just a press of a button/phone call, perhaps they will consider putting them in more appropriate places, rather than in some stupid location where the camera is shooting fish in a barrel.

It would appear that they can still mess with points for the favored few.

mikeecho

RustyNut wrote: »

It would appear that they can still mess with points for the favored few.

Its the old skool management that still believe that they are above the law and Superior to the minions of the country

its disgusting really

Curly head

Disagree completely with milkeecho, sometimes there far from easy to spot!

barryoneill50

Don't speed and you won't be caught, simples!

Jimmy Bottles

I believe Gardaí search out long stretches of high quality straight road, with moderate traffic levels and a speed limit which people would deem too low for the road in question.

Also, there may have had to have been a fender bender on this road in the past 10 years. And there you go.

Rubberchikken

my opinion - shoot me if you wish - but i think they should be unmarked, and let people live with the consequences.
do not, under any circumstances, agree with or see why they have to be blatently visible and marked. people just slow down and once past, speed up again.
stupid solution to a very real problem in this country.

and on the points removals, while people, gardai or otherwise think they are above the law, this will continue to happen.

Special Circumstances

Curly head wrote: »

Disagree completely with milkeecho, sometimes there far from easy to spot!

The dark blue go safes are dangerous in dull conditions.

brooke 2

Curly head wrote: »

Disagree completely with milkeecho, sometimes there far from easy to spot!

Agree. Well tucked away on the Birdhill/Nenagh road!!
Speed limit 80kph on a wide straight stretch of road.

Was in Achill a few days ago - similar speed limit on those narrow winding roads!!

Del2005

Rubberchikken wrote: »

my opinion - shoot me if you wish - but i think they should be unmarked, and let people live with the consequences.
do not, under any circumstances, agree with or see why they have to be blatently visible and marked. people just slow down and once past, speed up again.
stupid solution to a very real problem in this country.

and on the points removals, while people, gardai or otherwise think they are above the law, this will continue to happen.

Well if they put them in places of danger, around schools, or where actual fatal crashes have occurred then they have done their job if people only slow down going past, but they don't site them in dangerous locations. I've never seen a speed trap in a housing estate or dodgy back road, where slowing vehicles is needed, but every one I've seen has been on a long open road.

If they wanted speed traps to protect life they would site them in areas of high risk(housing estates, schools, rural back roads) instead of main roads which are relatively save for all road users.

ardmacha

Del2005 wrote: »

Well if they put them in places of danger, around schools, or where actual fatal crashes have occurred then they have done their job if people only slow down going past, but they don't site them in dangerous locations. I've never seen a speed trap in a housing estate or dodgy back road, where slowing vehicles is needed, but every one I've seen has been on a long open road.

The open road is the point at which the speed limit is exceed, the same driver may drive too fast in the twisty bit but this may not exceed the speed limit.

What is needed is a legal change to allow speed be determined by reference to sightlines at any point on the network and without having to have reference to an inflexible legal speed limit.

betistuc

Got nailed by a sneaky Gosafe van at the end of the M3 going onto N3 there at Clonee couple of Mondays ago. Didn't see the f---ker as it was after dark. I was actually slowing down from 120 km as I hit the 100 km limit but he got me at 111kph. 80 bucks and 3 points. Makes my blood boil. Road was practically empty. It's very unfair to place these vans on super safe roads like this one. That was never their purpose.

Fiskar

betistuc wrote: »

Got nailed by a sneaky Gosafe van at the end of the M3 going onto N3 there at Clonee couple of Mondays ago. Didn't see the f---ker as it was after dark. I was actually slowing down from 120 km as I hit the 100 km limit but he got me at 111kph. 80 bucks and 3 points. Makes my blood boil. Road was practically empty. It's very unfair to place these vans on super safe roads like this one. That was never their purpose.

It is revenue and no other reason along with the water charges and LPT. Curse of a country. Funny enough our resident gatso here in Navan is not much in my sights recently, perhaps the election? I light him up in the dark!

Feel your pain but you need to keep your eyes peeled rather than your pockets.

I think I got pounded by one today, on the N7.

They have an amber flashing light bar now. This is what threw me off. Road was 100 and i was going about 106-108 I'd say (in actual speed, not the over-reading by the speedometer). Seen it a mile up the road and sat there looking at it, commenting how that breakdown van looks like a speed van. Feckin' amber light bar threw me way off!

Still.. now I know. Can only hope I wasn't nailed by it.

Dale Parish

betistuc wrote: »

Got nailed by a sneaky Gosafe van at the end of the M3 going onto N3 there at Clonee couple of Mondays ago. Didn't see the f---ker as it was after dark. I was actually slowing down from 120 km as I hit the 100 km limit but he got me at 111kph. 80 bucks and 3 points. Makes my blood boil. Road was practically empty. It's very unfair to place these vans on super safe roads like this one. That was never their purpose.

They're also on the actual M3 now as well; just after the overhead bridge that goes to clonee; when you're heading towards blanchardstown

betistuc

It's not so much the fine that annoys me - It's the points which you are stuck with for 3 years. Can affect your insurance premium if you accumulate more than three. I honestly think the penalty is far too severe for such a minor offence

Veloce

Do you actually have to pass the van in order for your to be caught? I know the speed is measured outwards from the rear of the van but is the photographic evidence camera facing frontwards to photograph the offending veh-hicle? I thought this to be the case but I could be wrong.

Camera faces out the rear window, as does the equipment used to measure your distance/speed.

Front of the van can't do you.

9935452

Deleted User wrote: »

I think I got pounded by one today, on the N7.

They have an amber flashing light bar now. This is what threw me off. Road was 100 and i was going about 106-108 I'd say (in actual speed, not the over-reading by the speedometer). Seen it a mile up the road and sat there looking at it, commenting how that breakdown van looks like a speed van. Feckin' amber light bar threw me way off!

Still.. now I know. Can only hope I wasn't nailed by it.

i read somewhere that they only put on the flashing lights when they are setting up the equipment and then turn it off when they are running

Jesus.

Rubberchikken wrote: »

my opinion - shoot me if you wish - but i think they should be unmarked, and let people live with the consequences.
do not, under any circumstances, agree with or see why they have to be blatently visible and marked. people just slow down and once past, speed up again.stupid solution to a very real problem in this country.and on the points removals, while people, gardai or otherwise think they are above the law, this will continue to happen.

Then there's no deterrent. If people can see the big white vans they tell others etc and people begin to slow down. That's why you'll often see Cops in very conspicuous places with flashing lights, obvious gun pointing (wild west style) and as much luminous jackets etc you can find; So that people WILL see them and won't forget them. They believe this to be good preventative policing.

ironclaw

9935452 wrote: »

i read somewhere that they only put on the flashing lights when they are setting up the equipment and then turn it off when they are running

This is correct. Health & Safety. If its flashing, its extremely unlikely to be operating. Frankly I think it would be more effective if it was left on if the whole point is to educate people and make them think about their speed.

laserlad2010

betistuc wrote: »

Got nailed by a sneaky Gosafe van at the end of the M3 going onto N3 there at Clonee couple of Mondays ago. Didn't see the f---ker as it was after dark. I was actually slowing down from 120 km as I hit the 100 km limit but he got me at 111kph. 80 bucks and 3 points. Makes my blood boil. Road was practically empty. It's very unfair to place these vans on super safe roads like this one. That was never their purpose.

I've been meaning to complain about that location. You come into the van's LOS during the 120km/h stretch, then hit the 100km/h sign. At which point were you caught speeding?

I've passed the van twice and if I'm sent a fine I'll challenge it asking them to state the exact distance relative to the signs - prove I was doing 110 in the 100 zone and not in the 120

betistuc

laserlad2010 wrote: »

I've been meaning to complain about that location. You come into the van's LOS during the 120km/h stretch, then hit the 100km/h sign. At which point were you caught speeding?

I've passed the van twice and if I'm sent a fine I'll challenge it asking them to state the exact distance relative to the signs - prove I was doing 110 in the 100 zone and not in the 120

According to the fixed charge notice it was at Huntstown, Dublin 15. Google maps has it close to the N3 but not beside it. I think you're right about the van's location. I was only a couple of seconds off the M3 when I encountered it.

pa990

laserlad2010 wrote: »

I've been meaning to complain about that location. You come into the van's LOS during the 120km/h stretch, then hit the 100km/h sign. At which point were you caught speeding?

I've passed the van twice and if I'm sent a fine I'll challenge it asking them to state the exact distance relative to the signs - prove I was doing 110 in the 100 zone and not in the 120

Easily proved.
The ticket will have the gps coordinates.
The radar operates at a set angle, if memory serves me right, I think it's 23.5°.

The radar system will take photos of all approaching cars at X distance, and receding cars at Y distance from the radar.

Fight your tickets and report back please... cos ppl rarely do.

betistuc

pa990 wrote: »

Easily proved.
The ticket will have the gps coordinates.
The radar operates at a set angle, if memory serves me right, I think it's 23.5°.

The radar system will take photos of all approaching cars at X distance, and receding cars at Y distance from the radar.

Fight your tickets and report back please... cos ppl rarely do.

Not seeing any gps co ordinates on my fixed charge notice. Any point in emailing them and pleading my case? . 25/03/16 is my pay by date.

9935452

9935452 wrote: »

i read somewhere that they only put on the flashing lights when they are setting up the equipment and then turn it off when they are running

ironclaw wrote: »

This is correct. Health & Safety. If its flashing, its extremely unlikely to be operating. Frankly I think it would be more effective if it was left on if the whole point is to educate people and make them think about their speed.

Is this actually true? Do you guys have any credentials or are you just winding me up to make me happy, until the crushing fine slides in my letterbox?

The van was sitting there, light flashing, but had no operator on the roadside or any open doors or such. Looked like it was in 'gotcha, ya bollix' mode to me.

Mycroft H

Del2005 wrote: »

Well if they put them in places of danger, around schools, or where actual fatal crashes have occurred then they have done their job if people only slow down going past, but they don't site them in dangerous locations. I've never seen a speed trap in a housing estate or dodgy back road, where slowing vehicles is needed, but every one I've seen has been on a long open road.

If they wanted speed traps to protect life they would site them in areas of high risk(housing estates, schools, rural back roads) instead of main roads which are relatively save for all road users.

I have seen plenty of GoSafe/Garda vans on the backroads. Between Allenwood and Derrinturn is a good example. Schools, bus stops, houses and a poor road surface. It's a reasonable place to have one.

That said, I've seen them in silly places too.

ironclaw

Deleted User wrote: »

Is this actually true? Do you guys have any credentials or are you just winding me up to make me happy, until the crushing fine slides in my letterbox?

The drivers were up in arms internally last year regarding how dangerous it was setting up (There is a lenghty-ish set up process required before they start that involves moving around the rear of the van) I believe the HSA and Gardai got involved, as you had a work place and a road traffic issue of vans, often in tight positions on the side of the road, and unlit for approaching traffic. Hence, if you have a warning beacon, its likely not in 'fine' mode. The operator could of course have left it on, or it could just be a new procedure of visibility as opposed to fine issuing. Who knows.

I'd be fairly confident you won't be fined. If you are report back, I'll buy you a pint :pac:

ironclaw

ironclaw wrote: »

I'd be fairly confident you won't be fined. If you are report back, I'll buy you a pint :pac:

Well if you're that confident let me say it was you driving my car! :P


In all seriousness though, I hope you're right. I do believe, however, that they have quite a big window in which to send out the fine? (something like 3 months?!)

Anyone know how long it actually tends to take?

pa990

betistuc wrote: »

Not seeing any gps co ordinates on my fixed charge notice. Any point in emailing them and pleading my case? . 25/03/16 is my pay by date.

Gps details usually on the larger photo, that has to be requested.

They are for the garda speed van photos anyway

pa990

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well if you're that confident let me say it was you driving my car! :P


In all seriousness though, I hope you're right. I do believe, however, that they have quite a big window in which to send out the fine? (something like 3 months?!)

Anyone know how long it actually tends to take?

6 months less 56days.

So, its something like up to 4 months to send out a fine

Usually arrives out within 2weeks, providing the car is correctly registered etc

betistuc

pa990 wrote: »

Easily proved.
The ticket will have the gps coordinates.
The radar operates at a set angle, if memory serves me right, I think it's 23.5°.

The radar system will take photos of all approaching cars at X distance, and receding cars at Y distance from the radar.

Fight your tickets and report back please... cos ppl rarely do.

Just received the gps co ordinates from nro@garda.ie . they are
+53.40725,-6.42023 Comes up on google maps as very close to the end of the M3

pa990

betistuc wrote: »

Just received the gps co ordinates from nro@garda.ie . they are
+53.40725,-6.42023 Comes up on google maps as very close to the end of the M3

The radar broadcasts at an angle of 22°
Can't remember what the beam spread angle is.
It has a range of 4 to 70 metres

Time to dust down your protractor and calculator

ironclaw

pa990 wrote: »

The radar broadcasts at an angle of 22°
Can't remember what the beam spread angle is.
It has a range of 4 to 70 metres

Time to dust down your protractor and calculator

Rule of thumb is twice the width of the road away. Give or take a fraction. At these speeds, impossible to tell.

betistuc

laserlad2010 wrote: »

I've been meaning to complain about that location. You come into the van's LOS during the 120km/h stretch, then hit the 100km/h sign. At which point were you caught speeding?

I've passed the van twice and if I'm sent a fine I'll challenge it asking them to state the exact distance relative to the signs - prove I was doing 110 in the 100 zone and not in the 120

Hi laserlad . Did you have a look at those gps coordinates I posted (36). What do you think. Does the van look close enough to 120kph limit to merit a challenge

pa990

betistuc wrote: »

Hi laserlad . Did you have a look at those gps coordinates I posted (36). What do you think. Does the van look close enough to 120kph limit to merit a challenge

How far is that point from the speed limit sign?

betistuc

pa990 wrote: »

How far is that point from the speed limit sign?

Hard to work out. On google maps distance from end of orange coloured road (motorway) to gosafe van location is only 23.33 mts (76.66 ft). I can't be sure how far back 100kph signs were located.

Jayop

I've never been done by one of these but the locations of them around me are so so stupid. One is in a 100kmph zone that you'd need to be driving a Ferrari to actually go over the limit. It's on a very short straight with two very tight corners either end. No-one speeds there. It is an accident spot when there's ice and snow and cars regularly leave the road but that's the only accidents and they are not caused by people going over the 100kmph limit, they're caused by people going over 40kmph when the road isn't able for it.

These vans are a farce and have in effect caused more danger on Irish roads since their introduction. The gov have replaced large numbers of Traffic cops with these revenue generators and as such it's much rarer now to see traffic stops for things like tax, drinking, checking lights, tyres etc. Those used to be common place. I was once breathalyzed three times in the three weeks about ten years ago. I honestly don't think I've been stopped by a Guard apart from when accompanying customs in the last five years.

pa990

Jayop wrote: »

.....................
These vans are a farce and have in effect caused more danger on Irish roads since their introduction.....

Source please.

Jayop

pa990 wrote: »

Source please.

My source is common sense. If you replace one third of the traffic cop branch with speed vans that can only do one thing (and badly at that) rather than check for drink driving, bald tires, blown bulbs, no NCT etc then how could that lead to anything other than more danger.


Please don't quote one small part of a post and leave out the part that actually answers your question. Not every post on the internet has to be fully researched and backed up with hard evidence. People can have an opinion and honestly selective quoting and saying "source please" is probably the most irritating and cheap way of debating.

laserlad2010

betistuc wrote: »

Hi laserlad . Did you have a look at those gps coordinates I posted (36). What do you think. Does the van look close enough to 120kph limit to merit a challenge

betistuc wrote: »

Hard to work out. On google maps distance from end of orange coloured road (motorway) to gosafe van location is only 23.33 mts (76.66 ft). I can't be sure how far back 100kph signs were located.

I'd say you have a chance. Wherever the M3 is signposted as finished, thats where the 100km/hr sign is. Same poles.

I'm not issuing legal advice at all, but logic would say that you could ask them to prove that the GPS co-ordinates are from after the 100km/hr sign. Unless you're doing over 120 then you're goosed:(

ironclaw

Jayop wrote: »

My source is common sense. If you replace one third of the traffic cop branch with speed vans that can only do one thing (and badly at that) rather than check for drink driving, bald tires, blown bulbs, no NCT etc then how could that lead to anything other than more danger.


Please don't quote one small part of a post and leave out the part that actually answers your question. Not every post on the internet has to be fully researched and backed up with hard evidence. People can have an opinion and honestly selective quoting and saying "source please" is probably the most irritating and cheap way of debating.

As can be seen by my countless threads here, I'm not an advocate of the vans. But you haven't backed up your piece with any evidence. You're common sense argument is flawed as the number of Gardai has remained the same since the introduction. They did not replace the Gardai, they freed them up. I'd far rather a Garda doing some real work such as following up on incidents and responding to calls, that sitting on the side of the road with a laser gun. I'd rather see them patrolling, than static. I do agree with you we went through a patch with very little visible enforcement but in the last 6 to 9 months, I've seen (And perhaps its placebo or whatnot) what I believe to be an increase in Garda visibility.

The case whether the vans work or not is debatable, as seen by the mega thread here. I'm of the opinion they don't act as a deterrent but they do make someone think, even momentarily about there speed. What that effect has is entirely up to the person themselves. Let's be frank, for the majority it has none at all. A mixture of ignorance and arrogance in their abilities. I would have far more favor of these vans if they conducted tax, insurance and NCT checks. This I believe is a natural progression and would free Garda resources even more, considering the ANPR system is non-existent.

pa990

Jayop wrote: »

My source is common sense. If you replace one third of the traffic cop branch with speed vans that can only do one thing (and badly at that) rather than check for drink driving, bald tires, blown bulbs, no NCT etc then how could that lead to anything other than more danger.


Please don't quote one small part of a post and leave out the part that actually answers your question. Not every post on the internet has to be fully researched and backed up with hard evidence. People can have an opinion and honestly selective quoting and saying "source please" is probably the most irritating and cheap way of debating.

The vans if anything have freeded up an every more scarce police force to perform other tasks. Such as bulbs etc.
there is however a massive shortage of police.

But can u exclaim how have the vans created more of a danger.. The rest of your post that I didn't quote didn't explain that point.
I just don't where the danger element comes from.

Jayop

There's several hundred less traffic cops. That equates to more dangerous roads. It's not some giant leap in logic.

pa990

Jayop wrote: »

There's several hundred less traffic cops. That equates to more dangerous roads. It's not some giant leap in logic.

less cops = more dangerous roads, agreed

but that is as a result of the embargo on police recruitment and massive amounts of retirement.

How are the vans dangerous ???

Jayop

pa990 wrote: »

less cops = more dangerous roads, agreed

but that is as a result of the embargo on police recruitment and massive amounts of retirement.

How are the vans dangerous ???

Because the vans are being used to replace traffic cops.

GM228

Jayop wrote: »

Because the vans are being used to replace traffic cops.

Have you anything to back that up?

Gatso vans and reduction in the traffic corps is not related unless you can show it is?

Surely it's more accurate to say Gatso vans are supplementing the traffic corps as opposed to replacing it.

Numbers in the traffic corps were upped years ago around 2009 I think to try to reduce the numbers of fatalities on the roads, with annual fatalities now at a 12 year low that original plan has been achieved so it's reasonable to see the corps reduced accordingly back to the original level. I'm not saying the level is correct when they are increased for a purpose and that purpose is served i can see why they would be reduced especially with the increasing demand on resources for Gardaí to deal with rural and gangland crime.

Gardaí numbers have fallen all round in all divisions, not just the traffic division.