Is it just me...

bilston

...or is anyone else struggling to muster up real enthusiasm for this season? I don't know what it is but I haven't been this underwhelmed by a new rugby season for as long as I can remember.

Maybe all the politicking has taken its toll. I'm hoping the new Super Duper Cup takes off and I do look forward a bit more towards the AIs but the first four weeks haven't really caught my imagination at all.

Here's hoping for something to spark the season into life soon. I suppose Leinster v Munster is a good place to start (even as an Ulster fan).

sydthebeat

I suppose connacht fans wouldn't be complaining. With the injury list in Leinster and Ulster, and the general meh'ness of the Munster squad, there's nothing much to get worked up about.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

...or is anyone else struggling to muster up real enthusiasm for this season? I don't know what it is but I haven't been this underwhelmed by a new rugby season for as long as I can remember.

Maybe all the politicking has taken its toll. I'm hoping the new Super Duper Cup takes off and I do look forward a bit more towards the AIs but the first four weeks haven't really caught my imagination at all.

Here's hoping for something to spark the season into life soon. I suppose Leinster v Munster is a good place to start (even as an Ulster fan).

I'm sure Connacht fans aren't having that issue. The other provinces haven't exactly had inspiring starts to the season. And when you look at Glasgow and, to a lesser degree, Ospreys in the league plus the likes of Toulon and Saracens in Europe it's hard to see it being a hugely successful season for us. It's still early days obviously but we're being hit with injuries now too.

The RWC next year is probably taking some of the attention away as well...

bilston

Yeah obviously it has started well for Connacht but that aside I just think we need need something or someone to really stand out and grab our attention in the next few weeks.

September usually is a slow burner but this season seems particularly lethargic to me.

Buer

It's something intangible and I feel similar to bilston. I cannot put my finger on it but I'm completely jaded with Irish rugby at the moment. Continual injuries, hyper-critical fans....it's all a bit draining and mundane.

The Ospreys energy was the most entertaining thing that has happened in rugby on this island this season.

CatFromHue

The TV access isn't helping.

Hard to get excited about games when you can't see them or have to use a ****ty stream.

WTO

bilston wrote: »

...or is anyone else struggling to muster up real enthusiasm for this season? I don't know what it is but I haven't been this underwhelmed by a new rugby season for as long as I can remember.

Maybe all the politicking has taken its toll. I'm hoping the new Super Duper Cup takes off and I do look forward a bit more towards the AIs but the first four weeks haven't really caught my imagination at all.

Here's hoping for something to spark the season into life soon. I suppose Leinster v Munster is a good place to start (even as an Ulster fan).

I agree. It would be nice for some promising player to spring from somewhere. Maybe if Connacht can keep form it would be nice. Hopefully a stirring M v L, but the signs aren't good.

Hagz

Ever since it was announced that Sexton was coming back to Leinster, this season just became a waiting game for me. My interest is almost totally invested in Ireland now.

awec

Could it be because there is no province this year with a realistic chance of winning the European cup?

It also looks like if an Irish team wins the league it will be a stumble over the finish line helped by a lack of quality opposition. Early days to be saying that though.

matthew8

Leinster have a great chance at Europe this year. Second favourites, likely to get a home quarter final with pool opponents that look very manageable right now. Munster look poor and have a tough pool, tough to see them getting the win at Saracens/Clermont or enough BPs but we know this team can rise to a challenge so they're in with a chance. Ulster look quite poor too and have rotten luck to face Toulon but for Toulon to top the pool they'll probably have to win at either Ulster or Leicester, which are both big asks.

Likely an Irish side will win the league too. Can't understand the pessimism after a few games. Things should pick up when Europe starts.

awec

matthew8 wrote: »

Leinster have a great chance at Europe this year. Second favourites, likely to get a home quarter final with pool opponents that look very manageable right now. Munster look poor and have a tough pool, tough to see them getting the win at Saracens/Clermont or enough BPs but we know this team can rise to a challenge so they're in with a chance. Ulster look quite poor too and have rotten luck to face Toulon but for Toulon to top the pool they'll probably have to win at either Ulster or Leicester, which are both big asks.

Likely an Irish side will win the league too. Can't understand the pessimism after a few games. Things should pick up when Europe starts.

Really don't know where you're getting that idea from. If an irish side wins europe I'll eat my hat.

CatFromHue

awec wrote: »

Really don't know where you're getting that idea from. If an irish side wins europe I'll eat my hat.

we've castres, quins, and wasps in our group so a good chance to mke the qf's possibly even a home one.

matthew8

awec wrote: »

Really don't know where you're getting that idea from. If an irish side wins europe I'll eat my hat.

The bookies (the longest you will get Leinster at is 7/1 second favourites), and winning the league last year as well as making the quarters of the Heineken, and having an outstanding squad.

shuffol

We've been spoilt for too long, I think it could be our turn for a season in the wilderness, I'm hoping for someone like Olding to have a big season and spark a bit of enthusiasm, Irish team is in rude health though.

The Lost Sheep

bilston wrote: »

...or is anyone else struggling to muster up real enthusiasm for this season? I don't know what it is but I haven't been this underwhelmed by a new rugby season for as long as I can remember.

Maybe all the politicking has taken its toll. I'm hoping the new Super Duper Cup takes off and I do look forward a bit more towards the AIs but the first four weeks haven't really caught my imagination at all.

Here's hoping for something to spark the season into life soon. I suppose Leinster v Munster is a good place to start (even as an Ulster fan).

Im struggling to build any enthusiasm for the pro game but club game and all that is really kicking into gear now with UBL, junior rugby, underage really starting up now or in next week or two. If you're getting underwhelmed by the pro game go out to your local club and watch games there etc. That's what I do whenever underwhelmed by professional side be it Munster or Ireland.

matthew8 wrote: »

Leinster have a great chance at Europe this year. Second favourites, likely to get a home quarter final with pool opponents that look very manageable right now. Munster look poor and have a tough pool, tough to see them getting the win at Saracens/Clermont or enough BPs but we know this team can rise to a challenge so they're in with a chance. Ulster look quite poor too and have rotten luck to face Toulon but for Toulon to top the pool they'll probably have to win at either Ulster or Leicester, which are both big asks.

Likely an Irish side will win the league too. Can't understand the pessimism after a few games. Things should pick up when Europe starts.

Leinster great chance in Europe? Would completely disagree there. Agree with you on Munster. Poor so far and hard to see at moment many bright sides..

awec

CatFromHue wrote: »

we've castres, quins, and wasps in our group so a good chance to mke the qf's possibly even a home one.

Means nothing though. Ulster and Munster had home qfs last year.

I've seen nothing from Leinster this season or last to suggest they're good enough to win Europe.

matthew8

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Leinster great chance in Europe? Would completely disagree there.

Well look at their pool. 5 wins gets a home quarter this year (Northampton are in the only other pool in which you'd back a team to win 5 games, the Toulouse and Munster pools especially look like dogfights) and therefore a great chance at a semi. All the opponents have merits but Castres reside in the relegation zone and Quins are off to a poor start though Wasps look decent. I'd back Leinster and their superstar pack to get 5 wins out of that pool. Once you're in the semi anything can happen, especially if you get a home one.

matthew8

People think our provinces are in such bad shape but look around the leagues. Leicester are terrible so far, Bath and Northampton look great but don't play Irish teams in the pools. Saracens look handy enough and will be tough for Munster but English sides have a terrible recent record in Europe. In France... Toulon have had their moments but also lost to Stade's seconds at home, and it remains to be seen if they can win at a tough venue like Ravenhill or Welford Road (on their 2 title runs they went through very easy pools to a home QF). Toulouse and Castres are in horrific form, while Clermont look OK but hard to see them winning it all. Montpellier look alright but regularly disappoint in Europe while Metro don't look too hot. Outside of Toulon there's really no one for the Irish sides to fear, it's as level a playing field as I can remember.

former legend

It's not just you OP.

We've had a long ride of provincial success and while we can still expect to compete in the league, we just don't have the players or budgets to do so in Europe.

It's only natural for people to lose heart and lose interest. People want to follow winning teams and most people don't care about the league.

wp_rathead

May I say politely disagree with the general concensus here and say Im LOVING it!

bilston

wprathead wrote: »

May I say politely disagree with the general concensus here and say Im LOVING it!

Long may it continue for you wrapthead.

Molester Stallone II

When Italian t.v. doesnt get behind the league, and only tg4 in Ireland, it's hard to muster up a huge amount of interest so far.
Munster are still reintroducing players to the team & havent played anything like their first choice IV so far. Perhaps the phoney war so to speak, ends next week with the LvM game

Tox56

shuffol wrote: »

We've been spoilt for too long, I think it could be our turn for a season in the wilderness, I'm hoping for someone like Olding to have a big season and spark a bit of enthusiasm, Irish team is in rude health though.

Olding is probably the most exciting thing about this season for me even as a Leinster fan. I'd love to see him progress up to regular H cup rugby and then Ireland, he's an absolutely immense talent, as someone else said too having a player breakout in a big way like that would really energise everyone.

Tox56

matthew8 wrote: »

Well look at their pool. 5 wins gets a home quarter this year (Northampton are in the only other pool in which you'd back a team to win 5 games, the Toulouse and Munster pools especially look like dogfights) and therefore a great chance at a semi. All the opponents have merits but Castres reside in the relegation zone and Quins are off to a poor start though Wasps look decent. I'd back Leinster and their superstar pack to get 5 wins out of that pool. Once you're in the semi anything can happen, especially if you get a home one.

I have to say this is a season im genuinely worried about even getting out of the pool for the first time in a long time, if we don't lose 1 I'd be very surprised and from there you have very very little room for error

Then again if we end up somehow with a home QF and maybe Toulon screwed up their incredibly tough pool by losing away from home too often... who knows. As you say they're the only real standout team, and we've got a side that generally knows how to win

grumpymunster

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

When Italian t.v. doesnt get behind the league, and only tg4 in Ireland, it's hard to muster up a huge amount of interest so far.
Munster are still reintroducing players to the team & havent played anything like their first choice IV so far. Perhaps the phoney war so to speak, ends next week with the LvM game

Munster still charged my wife and I €40 each for our seats last night and against Edinburgh and Zebre. It is hard to be satisfied when 4th rate tripe is served up whilst still expecting fans to pay top dollar.

If you combined all of the crowds for the first 3 games TP would still not be full so maybe so maybe it is my wife and I that are plain stupid. Money is too hard to come by there days will need to consider if I part with over €800 for two season tickets next year, at this stage I doubt I will.

molloyjh

Matthew I think you're being massively overconfident about Leinsters chances in both Europe and the league. In the league Glasgow are currently the form team, as they have been now for a season and a half. I can actually see them winning it this season in a home final. And who could begrudge them that. In many ways it's about time someone outside of Ireland and the Ospreys won the thing. And it's about time the final was held outside the RDS. Every final bar 2011 has been there.

In Europe we face Wasps who are in great form at the moment. You may counter that by saying Quins look poor but we don't play them for over 2 months. They have a good squad and their fortunes should have turned by then. Castres are struggling so hopefully that will help, but we'll be in real trouble should we lose away to Wasp and Quins. It's not the hardest pool by any means but we're a long way from our best right now so that just makes it harder on us.

It's very feasible that Irish provinces could come out of this season with nothing. When you see how Glasgow and Ospreys have come out of the blocks and compare it to Leinster, Munster and Ulster it is disheartening. And with all our injuries adding to that it doesn't help.

Molester Stallone II

grumpymunster wrote: »

Munster still charged my wife and I €40 each for our seats last night and against Edinburgh and Zebre. It is hard to be satisfied when 4th rate tripe is served up whilst still expecting fans to pay top dollar.

If you combined all of the crowds for the first 3 games TP would still not be full so maybe so maybe it is my wife and I that are plain stupid. Money is too hard to come by there days will need to consider if I part with over €800 for two season tickets next year, at this stage I doubt I will.

Not much can be done unfortunately, player management and all that means players have to be protected & reintroduced slowly, players managing injuries others out with long term injuries.
Hopefully it means we will be fresher towards the seasons end

awec

What players couldn't play due to player management last night?

Winters

Eh to state the obvious but our dear leader Kim Jong O'Driscoll is no long with us. Of course we are feeling down..

chupacabra

Ever since I left Ireland ive found it very hard to be excited for any sport anymore. The last game I watched that really got me going was the All Blacks game last November.

I couldnt find a pub to watch the All Ireland Final last weekend and that didnt even really bother me. I miss the days when I would camp on the couch, scented candle, beer and a starbar or 2 to watch Champions League/Six Nations/Super 14/Golf Majors etc. etc.

Now I cant be arsed.

grumpymunster

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

Not much can be done unfortunately, player management and all that means players have to be protected & reintroduced slowly, players managing injuries others out with long term injuries.
Hopefully it means we will be fresher towards the seasons end

Not much point being fresh at the end of the season if you are in the running for nothing.

OldRio

Just a thought, but in the last number of years our provinces have done well in the league and Europe, yet our national team has disappointed.

Perhaps things are about to turn on their head. (Thinking World Cup)


Tis a sign I tell ya. I sign.:D

molloyjh

grumpymunster wrote: »

Not much point being fresh at the end of the season if you are in the running for nothing.

If we win the 6 Nations again it will have been worth it without doubt. We've fairly dominated the league for years and have had more than our fair share of success in Europe. We haven't replicated that at all at international level really. I'd take a quiet provincial year (that sees Connacht improve enough to challenge for a European spot) with a back to back 6 Nations title going into the RWC happily enough.

Things will get better next season. Ulster will have a proper full-time coach who should be settled at that stage, Foley will have a year under his belt with Munster which should stand to him and Leinster will have Sexton back.

irishbucsfan

Which players are being held back for player management this week? Or even last week? Not sure IRFU player management can be linked to the current performance levels of the teams. I just think there has never really been a need for the Irish sides to be competitive in September, I think it's more a cultural thing within the big 3 provinces than related to the IRFU's policies.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Which players are being held back for player management this week? Or even last week? Not sure IRFU player management can be linked to the current performance levels of the teams. I just think there has never really been a need for the Irish sides to be competitive in September, I think it's more a cultural thing within the big 3 provinces than related to the IRFU's policies.

The Ulster team that took the field was pretty awful on paper tbf. Though I think there's a good few injuries.

Leinster were missing a few through injury too, off the top of my head I can't think of anyone rested.

Definitely the Heineken cup debacle has made things a bit more cynical, but a big thing for me is no RTE.

Got to a lot of games last year but that isn't possible this year and I'm not getting sky just for 1 sport.

I also have a bit of a chip on my shoulder towards the sky commentators.

Couple that with under performing provinces and the frustration of seeing money teams dominating Europe last season and things don't feel great this season.

CptMackey

For me it's has been the lackluster start of the season by Munster. Made the trip to thomand park yesterday and I get to watch that rubbish. I have been following Irish rugby since I can remember and there seems to be an apathy in the team that I never saw before.

Not to mention the player I saw around cork driving around in a 142 bmw showing off instead of focusing on his game. Which there is plenty to focus on

matthew8

molloyjh wrote: »

Matthew I think you're being massively overconfident about Leinsters chances in both Europe and the league. In the league Glasgow are currently the form team, as they have been now for a season and a half. I can actually see them winning it this season in a home final. And who could begrudge them that. In many ways it's about time someone outside of Ireland and the Ospreys won the thing. And it's about time the final was held outside the RDS. Every final bar 2011 has been there.

In Europe we face Wasps who are in great form at the moment. You may counter that by saying Quins look poor but we don't play them for over 2 months. They have a good squad and their fortunes should have turned by then. Castres are struggling so hopefully that will help, but we'll be in real trouble should we lose away to Wasp and Quins. It's not the hardest pool by any means but we're a long way from our best right now so that just makes it harder on us.

It's very feasible that Irish provinces could come out of this season with nothing. When you see how Glasgow and Ospreys have come out of the blocks and compare it to Leinster, Munster and Ulster it is disheartening. And with all our injuries adding to that it doesn't help.

Why are you so quick to say this about Quins, but reluctant to say it about Leinster, who have a much better squad? Look back to last year, who honestly expected us to beat the Ospreys away so well?

KNS

Already posted in the match thread. But after parting with the bones of €100 (2xtickets, booking fee, couple of pints) for the match last night I won't be rushing back this season.

What made it worse was I dragged along some who couldn't wait to go to Thomond park for the first time. They weren't impressed.

I wouldn't mind if they played well and lost. Might stick to the AIL in future!!

grumpymunster

molloyjh wrote: »

If we win the 6 Nations again it will have been worth it without doubt. We've fairly dominated the league for years and have had more than our fair share of success in Europe. We haven't replicated that at all at international level really. I'd take a quiet provincial year (that sees Connacht improve enough to challenge for a European spot) with a back to back 6 Nations title going into the RWC happily enough.

Things will get better next season. Ulster will have a proper full-time coach who should be settled at that stage, Foley will have a year under his belt with Munster which should stand to him and Leinster will have Sexton back.

Not sure how it will be worth it long term. Little or no one goes to AIL matches anymore. Munster crowds going through the floor mainly because outside of European games we have been short shifting the league for years now.

A successful National team only will not grow the game, if it dies at grass roots it is only a matter of time before it dies. Rugby is fortunate it is the only professional team sport on the island and basically has the winter to itself. empty stadiums mean less or no sponsorship and less gate revenue, no revenue then no professional game, no professional game no international success. Where do you want it to end?

I stopped going to Ireland games in the latter stages of Kidney's tenure because it was just impossible for me to justify the cost of the tickets against the match day experience you were getting, and it seems there's a bit of the same going on with Leinster and Munster at the moment. Both teams need to start performing again, simple as that.

molloyjh

matthew8 wrote: »

Why are you so quick to say this about Quins, but reluctant to say it about Leinster, who have a much better squad? Look back to last year, who honestly expected us to beat the Ospreys away so well?

Ospreys were muck last year. It took them until round 3 or 4 before they got their first try in Europe. And those back to back games against Castres were dire games.

I'm saying it about Quins over Leinster because we've been playing well below par for a year now. Sure our form could turn around but that still doesn't mean we could beat a good Quins side in London. We should get through the pool but given how we're playing this season it's far from a given that we will.

molloyjh

grumpymunster wrote: »

Not sure how it will be worth it long term. Little or no one goes to AIL matches anymore. Munster crowds going through the floor mainly because outside of European games we have been short shifting the league for years now.

A successful National team only will not grow the game, if it dies at grass roots it is only a matter of time before it dies. Rugby is fortunate it is the only professional team sport on the island and basically has the winter to itself. empty stadiums mean less or no sponsorship and less gate revenue, no revenue then no professional game, no professional game no international success. Where do you want it to end?

You did read my second paragraph where I said I expected it to only be short term (if it happened at all) right?

grumpymunster

molloyjh wrote: »

You did read my second paragraph where I said I expected it to only be short term (if it happened at all) right?

I did indeed read it, feel it is over optimistic. Munster have been short changing it supporters for seasons now why will it stop next season? Much as it pains me to say it the only Province in Ireland with a progressive professional attitude is Leinster.

CatFromHue

awec wrote: »

Means nothing though. Ulster and Munster had home qfs last year.

I've seen nothing from Leinster this season or last to suggest they're good enough to win Europe.

That's true, but very rarely does an Irish team look that good (or good enough to win the HEC) at this stage either. It only really starts to show around November / December really.

molloyjh

grumpymunster wrote: »

I did indeed read it, feel it is over optimistic. Munster have been short changing it supporters for seasons now why will it stop next season? Much as it pains me to say it the only Province in Ireland with a progressive professional attitude is Leinster.

Munster have clearly never rated the league. They'll have to do so now more than ever due to meritocracy. I think there's also a serious realisation in the province that they have won nothing in the last 3 seasons and they need to break that duck.

I'd be hopeful that all 4 provinces can build on where we are now. We've all got depth far beyond anything we've had before. We may not have the same quality of stars in certain positions, but our squads are much healthier. Just think of Munsters back 3. In Europe, assuming for the moment all are fit, who would you guys start? You have Earls, Zebo and VdH plus Jones, Conway, LOD. Even your second row as well. Look at Ulsters back line, particularly their centres. Leinsters front and back rows. There's plenty of talent there.

Molester Stallone II

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Which players are being held back for player management this week? Or even last week? Not sure IRFU player management can be linked to the current performance levels of the teams. I just think there has never really been a need for the Irish sides to be competitive in September, I think it's more a cultural thing within the big 3 provinces than related to the IRFU's policies.

None as far as I know, but the post I replied to had mentioned Zebre & Embra games where player management protocols were in place.
At the moment we just have bucket loads of injuries & 2 no 10's who aren't fit

grumpymunster

molloyjh wrote: »

Munster have clearly never rated the league. They'll have to do so now more than ever due to meritocracy. I think there's also a serious realisation in the province that they have won nothing in the last 3 seasons and they need to break that duck.

I'd be hopeful that all 4 provinces can build on where we are now. We've all got depth far beyond anything we've had before. We may not have the same quality of stars in certain positions, but our squads are much healthier. Just think of Munsters back 3. In Europe, assuming for the moment all are fit, who would you guys start? You have Earls, Zebo and VdH plus Jones, Conway, LOD. Even your second row as well. Look at Ulsters back line, particularly their centres. Leinsters front and back rows. There's plenty of talent there.

In answer to the opening post it is very difficult to feel enthuastic certainly with regard to Munster. Sure the IRFU can dictate appearances by certain players and there will always be injuries part of any sport that. But so far we have regressed badly, our leadership on the field so far has been poor and our discipline is poor. We are not a cute team anymore.

Still Nenagh & Chelsea started the season well so not all is lost 😀

jacothelad

I'm pretty optimistic still about Ulster despite yesterday's shambles. Ulster should have won handsomely at Llanelli. They absolutely gifted two tries to them, dropped the ball over their line twice, had a great try ruled out on the flimsiest pretext, had Gilroy ankle tapped as he was about to run in and came back from 14 points down with 19 minutes to go.

Stuffed Zebre and smothered the Blues.

O.K. yesterday was a shocker but the sending off and then the total abandonment of responsibility by Fitzgibbon was more to blame. Even simple things like penalising Allen for coming in at the side when there were only two men - one from each team - on the ground shows the guy is't at this level. No ruck had formed at that point. He then ignores Zebre doing it at every ruck. He ignores them taking out players ahead of the ball over and over and then penalises Stevenson for doing it 5 yards from their line. He shows a 'lack of intestinal fortitude' as a ref and imo doesn't have the balls to operate at this level.

So after 4 rounds, three of which were away from home, Ulster have 13 points. Last season we had 11 points at this juncture. Not great but not terrible. Losing our two dynamic second rows is a bit of a disaster and then losing the medical joker replacement as well is just a continuation of the bad luck that has dogged the team for the last 3 or 4 seasons.

Fitzpatrick would have been the last guy I'd ever see getting a red card for punching. The mess that bastard made of his face explains the retaliation. Someone seems to have tried to remove his left cheek and eye with their finger nails. Part of me thinks "Good for him for sticking up for himself" although it fecked over the team. With 15 men, even that poor selection would have duffed them. He was never going to get the protection that is supposed to be in place by a dreadful excuse of a ref and a one eyed t.m.o.

The next game is against Edinburgh. Last year it was 41 - 7. The players will be in savage mood. If they get 5 points, that will take them to 18 after 5 games. After 5 games last year they had 15 points, including losing away to the Dragons and throwing a game against Glasgow at home. (Dropped the ball 3 times over the line and had others disallowed). Away wins at Connacht and Ospreys put a better look on the league table.

I wouldn't be so quick to write Ulster off. We need Pienaar back p.d.q. as Heaney and Marshall are brutal. There are a lot of new faces in the squad...(and still some who should be playing recreational rugby). Given a break from the terrible injury run, Ulster will be at the business end of things.

CatFromHue

Would it be right to say at times last season you could end up having 3 Irish games on the tv some weekends?

Now, unless you've Sky Sports, you'll only have one!

jacothelad

jacothelad wrote: »

O.K. yesterday was a shocker but the sending off and then the total abandonment of responsibility by Fitzgibbon was more to blame. Even simple things like penalising Allen for coming in at the side when there were only two men - one from each team - on the ground shows the guy is't at this level. No ruck had formed at that point. He then ignores Zebre doing it at every ruck. He ignores them taking out players ahead of the ball over and over and then penalises Stevenson for doing it 5 yards from their line. He shows a 'lack of intestinal fortitude' as a ref and imo doesn't have the balls to operate at this level.

The ref was awful, but it was Zebre. No matter how bad the ref is Ulster should be winning comfortably.