Working people "should" live in dormitories

Crusades

In the Irish Times today, they have a story on a man who works in St James's hospital cleaning operating theatres.

irishtimes.com/life-and-style/the-cleaner-rent-is-soaring-bills-are-going-up-1.1941845

He pays €800 a month rent and €100 a month bus fare.

If he's full time on €9.50 an hour, his income is €1500 per month.

So he pays 60% of his wages on putting a roof over his head and getting to/from work.

The comments section is a mixture of "he should share a room and save himself a fortune" and/or "he'd be better off on the dole".

Surely there needs to be some sort of dividend for working people? The reality is that people who've never worked a day in their lives are valued higher than Mr McNamara by Joan Burton. This man is an important cog in St James's hospital - if he didn't do his job properly, the machine just would not work.

I can understand people who are students, doing internships or doing work experience sharing flats or sharing rooms, but you can only do that for so long. People have private lives to be getting on with. Having no control of who comes and goes into your home is no way to live. Unscrupulous landlords can make life very hard for people who live in shared accommodation and there is zero protection for people like Mr McNamara if he could no longer afford a private flat.

Mrs OBumble

He should be on on the council housing list: council housing is the only mechanism for providing housing assistance to low paid workers in this country. (At the moment anyway).

Personally I shared a house until I was 30 .. actually about 34, 'cos I had flatmates for the first few years after purchasing a house. Didn't have a problem with that. But there does come a time when that's not viable any more, 'cos most of the people that want to house-share after about 35 have some life-issues which make them hard to live with.


Also - if it's not in his first job - he should be looking to obtain a better one. Entry level jobs should be just that, done by people entering the workforce, not a lifelong occupation.

Saipanne

He should live in shared accommodation.

Peter File

He is paying cash fares for buses which is not sensible considering he takes the bus to work either get an anniual ticket or a leap card. There are probably lots of other ways he can save money.

indigo twist

It is absolutely ridiculous that he's paying for accommodation beyond his means.

He should get a better-paid job, or move to shared accommodation. This does not have to mean a dormitory. I know plenty of professionals in their twenties and thirties who happily live in houseshares.

Yes, his job is essential - but there are plenty others out there willing to do that same job for the same wage, and who would be willing to live within their means while doing so. While it's a vital service, it's not a skilled profession, and he would be easily replaceable - hence the relatively low wage.

I'm on a lot more money than that myself, and there is no way in hell I could afford to pay €800 a month in rent. So I don't, I pay €550. It means I've had to compromise with regards to house size and area, even to afford that, but it's just crazy to sign up to a rental contract that you can't afford on your salary, then bitch about it.

sheesh

Has anyone asked the person in question.

He could live in shared accommodation but maybe he does not want to. Maybe he is happy to pay the extra money for a single flat and not share with other people. Also I cannot tell if the op is making assumptions about how much this person is making. If that guy is permanent in a hospital he is on to a good job.

Crusades

Peter File wrote: »

He is paying cash fares for buses which is not sensible considering he takes the bus to work either get an anniual ticket or a leap card. There are probably lots of other ways he can save money.

How would you suggest he save money on the most basic human needs (shelter, warmth, security).

FYI - The article says he pays €100 per month on the bus. This is a lot lower than the cash fare of €3.05 cited in the article.

Saipanne wrote: »

He should live in shared accommodation.

I don't believe working people "should" be denied basic privacy by being forced (due to policy that they have no control over) to live alongside strangers.

If you really believe this man who contributes to society should have diminished privacy, then why do you support providing council housing to people who contribute little if anything?

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He should be on on the council housing list: council housing is the only mechanism for providing housing assistance to low paid workers in this country. (At the moment anyway).

Personally I shared a house until I was 30 .. actually about 34, 'cos I had flatmates for the first few years after purchasing a house. Didn't have a problem with that. But there does come a time when that's not viable any more, 'cos most of the people that want to house-share after about 35 have some life-issues which make them hard to live with.


Also - if it's not in his first job - he should be looking to obtain a better one. Entry level jobs should be just that, done by people entering the workforce, not a lifelong occupation.

People used to think people still house sharing past 25 was a bit strange. Then it was 30. Now it's 35? 40 year-olds house sharing next? (I have no doubt that there are countless 40 year-olds who've ended up house sharing).

Saipanne

Crusades wrote: »

I don't believe working people "should" be denied basic privacy by being forced (due to policy that they have no control over) to live alongside strangers.

If you really believe this man who contributes to society should have diminished privacy, then why do you support providing council housing to people who contribute little if anything?

I make a lot more than this guy, and I pay 300 less in rent than him to share with people. I do this to save money. For the same reason, I use a leap card and don't pay cash for public transportation. This guy seems to lack common sense and deserves little sympathy. His current situation is of his own creation.

Lol to the last paragraph.

Crusades

Saipanne wrote: »

I make a lot more than this guy, and I pay 300 less in rent than him to share with people. I do this to save money. For the same reason, I use a leap card and don't pay cash for public transportation. This guy seems to lack common sense and deserves little sympathy. His current situation is of his own creation.

From the article it's clear that he's not paying cash fares.

Do you live in Dublin?

What stage of life are you at? Age/years' experience?

From the tone of your post, it appears that only professional people on high incomes "deserve" a basic standard of living.

shruikan2553

Want to live on your own? Pay more.
Want to save money? Live with others.

Maybe look into getting a job outside of Dublin. Might not be able to get an offer elsewhere but should at least try if rent is such an issue.

Saipanne

Crusades wrote: »

From the article it's clear that he's not paying cash fares.

Do you live in Dublin?

What stage of life are you at? Age/years' experience?

From the tone of your article, it appears that only professional people "deserve" a decent standard of living.

Yes, I do. I'm not giving you my personal details. No, you, like others in this thread are reading posts in a state of hysteria. I'm saying this guy's standard of living would greatly improved if he moved to a house share. But no. He prefers to live an unaffordable lifestyle. It's his choice. He deserves no sympathy.

Crusades

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Want to live on your own? Pay more.
Want to save money? Live with others.

Maybe look into getting a job outside of Dublin. Might not be able to get an offer elsewhere but should at least try if rent is such an issue.

So someone else "should" do his job then?

It costs about a grand a month for one bed flats in Dublin at the lower end of the market.

Someone on €52k a year would be spending 33% of their takehome for a €1k per month flat.

So the privilege of renting a private rented flat (at the bottom end of the market) is the preserve of those on salaries of €50k+?

Saipanne

So the privledge of owning a Pagani Zonda is for those with an annual income of 10m a year?

Oh, what a world...

shruikan2553

Crusades wrote: »

So someone else "should" do his job then?

It costs about a grand a month for one bed flats in Dublin at the lower end of the market.

Someone on €52k a year would be spending 33% of their takehome for a €1k per month flat.

So the privilege of living in a private flat is the preserve of those on salaries of €50k+?

You mean that the privilege of owning or doing something is the preserve of those on salaries which can afford it? Yeah. Its kind of how everything works.

Crusades

Saipanne wrote: »

He deserves no sympathy.

I don't believe he's looking for your sympathy.

All he's looking for is a decent standard of living for an honest week's work.

You sneering at him saying he should "work harder" or live with strangers isn't addressing the underlying issues facing those who want to work and contribute to society.

Saipanne

Crusades wrote: »

I don't believe he's looking for your sympathy.

All he's looking for is a decent standard of living for an honest week's work.

You sneering at him saying he should "work harder" or live with strangers isn't addressing the underlying issues facing those who want to work and contribute to society.

I work and contribute to society. But I would rather save 500 per month in rent and share. This guy would prefer not to save his earnings.

Shame for him. But it's his choice.

Crusades

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You mean that the privilege of owning or doing something is the preserve of those on salaries which can afford it? Yeah. Its kind of how everything works.

So you're happy with the way "things work"?

Workers who do an honest day's work are forced to compete with RAS recipients and workers like the man in this article wait at bus stops at 7:30 on November mornings while many of his neighbours roll out of bed at 11:00 wondering what they'll do that day.

Saipanne wrote: »

I work and contribute to society. But I would rather save 500 per month in rent and share. This guy would prefer not to save his earnings.

Shame for him. But it's his choice.

Why are you so confident that you won't still be house sharing in 10 years' time?

Last year, average Dublin house prices went up by a lot more than you claim you are saving. Better work harder.

Saipanne

Crusades wrote: »

Why are you so confident that you won't still be house sharing in 10 years' time?

Last year, average Dublin house prices went up by a lot more than you are saving. Better work harder.

I literally have no idea what you are saying here. Especially that opening line. Bizarre.

shruikan2553

Crusades wrote: »

So you're happy with the way "things work"?

Workers who do an honest day's work are forced to compete with RAS recipients and workers like the man in this article wait at bus stops at 7:30 on November mornings while many of his neighbours roll out of bed at 11:00 wondering what they'll do that day.

I would gladly put RAS recipients into cheaper parts of the country too. The thread was about him paying more to rent on his own, not he works and others don't.

Crusades

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I would gladly put RAS recipients into cheaper parts of the country too. The thread was about him paying more to rent on his own, not he works and others don't.

So RAS has no effect?

RAS is one of many factors affecting the ineffective work-reward system we have in this country.

Saipanne wrote: »

I literally have no idea what you are saying here. Especially that opening line. Bizarre.

It was very clear what I meant.

At what age do you plan on having your own place?

Saipanne

Crusades wrote: »

It was very clear what I meant.

At what age do you plan on having your own place?

You seem to know me better than I. What do you think?

Crusades

Saipanne wrote: »

You seem to know me better than I. What do you think?

I think people are living in shared accommodation for longer and longer (most would consider themselves a failure if you told them how they'd be living at 35 when they were leaving school). More and more multiple occupancy tenants are ending up stuck and will never progress. They will eventually become the state's problem.

Just trying to get a feel for your expectations really. If you don't want to be sharing for the foreseeable future, you need to be aware of market realities.

shruikan2553

Crusades wrote: »

So RAS has no effect?

RAS is one of many factors affecting the ineffective work-reward system we have in this country.

It probably does have some affect but unless this man is in some position of power to change it there's not much good complaining about it will do. He has 3 options as I mentioned above. He has to choose better place to live vs saving.

Saipanne

Crusades wrote: »

No idea. Just trying to get a feel for your expectations. If you don't want to be sharing for the foreseeable future, you need to be aware of market realities.

I will always live within my means. Not make stupid decisions like paying way more rent than I can afford, then go crying about it in a national newspaper.

Crusades

shruikan2553 wrote: »

It probably does have some affect but unless this man is in some position of power to change it there's not much good complaining about it will do. He has 3 options as I mentioned above. He has to choose better place to live vs saving.

So someone else "should" do his job then? Pass his problems on to someone else to deal with? A very Irish solution.

What will we (as a society) do about the ineffective work-reward system for the next guy? This is what I'm trying to get at.

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I would gladly put RAS recipients into cheaper parts of the country too.

Do you think Joan Burton is going to do that?

She's been talking about a €250m Xmas bonus recently.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He should be on on the council housing list

Never ceases to amaze me how people can say (with a straight face - nothing is wrong) that workers with full time jobs should be provided with State housing.

I doubt Mr McNamara wants public housing - he clearly wants to be his own man. Do his own thing, have his own private life. Be independent, not dependent on "the State".

gctest50

Crusades wrote: »

...........This man is an important cog in St James's hospital -

a very important cog

Crusades wrote: »

if he didn't do his job properly

Crusades wrote: »

the machine just would not work.

the machine would just send an email to the cleaning contracting company :

"send us another cog - this ones not working well"

meeeeh

Crusades wrote: »

Never ceases to amaze me how people can say (with a straight face - nothing is wrong) that workers with full time jobs should be provided with State housing.

I doubt Mr McNamara wants public housing - he clearly wants to be his own man. Do his own thing, have his own private life. Be independent, not dependent on "the State".

Then he should find a better paying job. Minimum wage is supposed to be for those starting in employment. If you are still on minimum wage 10 years later you are doing something wrong. One of the articles in the same series also states that even adjusted for cost Irish minimum wage is one of the highest in Eu. IMO increasing minimum wage would just put up the cost of living, possibly reduce the workforce and push the price of rental accommodation up. There is no denying that there is crisis in rental market in cities but throwing more money at people indiscriminately will not solve that. Better regional development and some sort of a sane housing policy is needed.

Crusades

lol.

People don't seem to mind when cleaners and labourers are outsourced.

Many professionals (such as pharmacists and nurses) now find themselves increasingly working for outsourcing companies. Where I work HR and Finance administration is also being outsourced. Junior positions are gone - you're expected to do Jobbridge. If you can't afford to live in Dublin for 9 months - tough, ask your parents to support you. There's a queue of eager and fresh workers with no assets and no income desparate to get on the career ladder.

Employers love zero hour contracting companies:
- hardly any paperwork
- no obligations to the worker (permanency, pensions, professional development)
- HR headaches are outsourced too
- cheaper

meeeeh wrote: »

Then he should find a better paying job. Minimum wage is supposed to be for those starting in employment. If you are still on minimum wage 10 years later you are doing something wrong. One of the articles in the same series also states that even adjusted for cost Irish minimum wage is one of the highest in Eu. IMO increasing minimum wage would just put up the cost of living, possibly reduce the workforce and push the price of rental accommodation up. There is no denying that there is crisis in rental market in cities but throwing more money at people indiscriminately will not solve that. Better regional development and some sort of a sane housing policy is needed.

Again, this is not helpful. As I said before, Mr McNamara moving on to another job is passing the problem to someone else. It is not solving the problem

Also, Please don't try an attribute things I didn't say (increasing the minimum wage) to me. If Walmart (who have one of the largest workforces on the planet) increased the wage of their employees by $2 an hour, it would cost them over $9bn - their profits might be wiped out and they could risk going out of business - 2.2 million people would be out of a job.

Saipanne wrote: »

So the privledge of owning a Pagani Zonda is for those with an annual income of 10m a year?

Oh, what a world...

Where would that fit on Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

meeeeh

Crusades wrote: »

Again, this is not helpful. As I said before, Mr McNamara moving on to another job is passing the problem to someone else. It is not solving the problem

Also, Please don't try an attribute things I didn't say (increasing the minimum wage) to me.

Well what are you suggesting then?

Crusades

meeeeh wrote: »

Well what are you suggesting then?

Is providing workers with decent living conditions for an honest week's work too much to ask?

All you hear is politicians talking about the price of houses and kick-starting the property market once again. It's a very limited debate. My opinion is that we, as a society, need to be having a wider debate about how society is structured and where we are going as a nation.

We're supposed to be doing all this (a big national debate) for 2016, but the kind of stuff I'm seeing, reading and hearing about doesn't give much hope. A big part of Michael Higgins' presidential manifesto was having a "nationwide ethical initiative" and promoting the arts and culture in wider society; but to be honest, it's been pretty disappointing sofar.

MouseTail

Other than sitting round having a debate, what is your policy solution to ensure that all workers, including those on minimum wage can live alone in centres of high housing demand?

Mrs OBumble

Crusades wrote: »

People used to think people still house sharing past 25 was a bit strange. Then it was 30. Now it's 35? 40 year-olds house sharing next? (I have no doubt that there are countless 40 year-olds who've ended up house sharing).

And before that no one left home before they got married, living alone was very rare
rare. Arguably it still should be, because it has a number of disadvantages and is inefficient use of housing stock.

shruikan2553

Crusades wrote: »

So someone else "should" do his job then? Pass his problems on to someone else to deal with? A very Irish solution.

What will we (as a society) do about the ineffective work-reward system for the next guy? This is what I'm trying to get at.

It is a low paid job that requires little to no qualifications as far as I know. You can hardly expect someone who is just after their leaving cert working in aldi to be able to afford to live beside the software engineer with 10 years experience and a masters.

His "problems" are that he wants a lifestyle he cant afford. It is something everyone faces. He has choices but he decided to take the most expensive. Living in the capital city of a country is always expensive. I would like to avoid living in Dublin for the exact same reason. Affording it is one thing but I want to be able to save, hence living in Galway, Limerick or Cork.

There is a problem with a lack of housing but it's not like he is living in poverty either.

Crusades wrote: »

Do you think Joan Burton is going to do that?

She's been talking about a €250m Xmas bonus recently.

She wouldnt do anything unless it can be bent to make her look good.

Marcusm

Crusades wrote: »

Where would that fit on Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

Self actualisation or self abuse depending on your perspective.

Marcusm

Crusades wrote: »

Never ceases to amaze me how people can say (with a straight face - nothing is wrong) that workers with full time jobs should be provided with State housing.

I doubt Mr McNamara wants public housing - he clearly wants to be his own man. Do his own thing, have his own private life. Be independent, not dependent on "the State".

There is actually a social purpose and societal benefit to the retention of some centrally located state housing for low paid workers as opposed to solely housing those entirely dependent on state benefits.

There was a time when this (working status) was a significant factor in determining the availability of local authority housing and the cost thereof was income related.

In the not so distant past, a not at all left wing UK local authority (the City of London Corporation) built large amounts of social housing (including the Barbican complex now much loved of partner level solicitors and accountants) to ensure that lower income city workers (and there are many multiples of those when compared with high paid workers) had housing suitable for families and within reasonable striking distance of their employers.

Saipanne

Crusades wrote: »

Where would that fit on Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

Living alone is not a need. It's a preference.

sabat

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You can hardly expect someone who is just after their leaving cert working in aldi to be able to afford to live beside the software engineer with 10 years experience and a masters...

His "problems" are that he wants a lifestyle he cant afford. It is something everyone faces. He has choices but he decided to take the most expensive. Living in the capital city of a country is always expensive.

Living in the most basic 1 bed apartment in a run-of-the-mill area is hardly a lifestyle choice and every city needs workers of all skill levels to function. And as for the well educated, well paid people-they hardly have it so good at the moment either- a single person earning 70k in Dublin and renting a bog-standard apartment will hardly have anything left over every month if they plan to have some basic "luxuries" like running an ordinary car or taking out health insurance.

Frank Lee Midere

MouseTail wrote: »

Other than sitting round having a debate, what is your policy solution to ensure that all workers, including those on minimum wage can live alone in centres of high housing demand?

Build more houses. It's been done before.

I think the entire housing market is a sham anyway.

sabat wrote: »

Living in the most basic 1 bed apartment in a run-of-the-mill area is hardly a lifestyle choice and every city needs workers of all skill levels to function. And as for the well educated, well paid people-they hardly have it so good at the moment either- a single person earning 70k in Dublin and renting a bog-standard apartment will hardly have anything left over every month if they plan to have some basic "luxuries" like running an ordinary car or taking out health insurance.

Yep. So much so that my company lost a worker who went back to Croatia ( still contracting occasionally for us) because he could live like a King over there and would have to spend 2000 a month to get a similar place here. He was paying 1.3k for a bung hole in the city centre.

Amazing that the muppets who run this country once again allow a country bankrupted by housing to have another bubble. As policy.

Saipanne wrote: »

Living alone is not a need. It's a preference.

No. It's a very real need. I believe it might be a human right in some countries. Certainly for a family. It's also simple to implement. Build enough housing. Stop transferring money from workers to parasites. Stop taking taxes from renters to subsidise rentiers.

Saipanne wrote: »

I will always live within my means. Not make stupid decisions like paying way more rent than I can afford, then go crying about it in a national newspaper.

That's great. But you are a fool. Because people who clearly didn't and don't live within their means are living in houses bought for massive amounts of money in the boom are living on your dime.

And why wouldn't you prefer to spend that money and live well?

The_Morrigan

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

That's great. But you are a fool. Because people who clearly didn't and don't live within their means are living in houses bought for massive amounts of money in the boom are living on your dime.

And why wouldn't you prefer to spend that money and live well?

Please don't insult other forum users - attack the post, not the poster.

Frank Lee Midere

Ok. To do that is foolish. To congratulate yourself on living badly when others live well is foolish. To think that a major cost of living being high is a good thing is foolish.

It would he foolish in 2006. It's madness now.

Saipanne

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

No. It's a very real need. I believe it might be a human right in some countries. Certainly for a family. It's also simple to implement. Build enough housing. Stop transferring money from workers to parasites. Stop taking taxes from renters to subsidise rentiers.

No, it isn't a need. Shelter is a need. But living in your own place is a luxury. You'd swear sharing is a miserable situation. I share a lovely place in a nice area for 300 less than our cleaner friend. It's a luxury. Not a need. Not a right. A privilege.

timetogo

Well if people want to subsidise the lower paid the money will have to come from somewhere.
It'll be another tax. I don't know what the sums are but I'd guess it'd be a % or 2% on top of our current rates.

The alternative is that people use these low paid jobs as starting off jobs. Most of us started off on the minimum legal wage. It's not designed to let you have an apartment in the middle of the city. It's normally used for people with minimum qualifications so they can start their careers. It should be a job you use while studying and working towards your next job.

In the perfect world we'd all have great houses / apartments. In the real world the better the quality the higher the cost. You either compromise by sharing or compromise on quality. We all have to do that. This guy doesn't want to share. That's absolutely fine. In that case it costs him more.

Saipanne

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Ok. To do that is foolish. To congratulate yourself on living badly when others live well is foolish. To think that a major cost of living being high is a good thing is foolish.

It would he foolish in 2006. It's madness now.

I live in a very nice area of Dublin in a large modern apartment. All while building up a nice nest egg. Yeah. A real fool.

ted1

Crusades wrote: »

So someone else "should" do his job then? Pass his problems on to someone else to deal with? A very Irish solution.

What will we (as a society) do about the ineffective work-reward system for the next guy? This is what I'm trying to get at.

Someone who lives at home, whose partner has a job, who chooses to live in a house share can all do the job.

Mrs OBumble

Crusades wrote: »

Never ceases to amaze me how people can say (with a straight face - nothing is wrong) that workers with full time jobs should be provided with State housing.

I doubt Mr McNamara wants public housing - he clearly wants to be his own man. Do his own thing, have his own private life. Be independent, not dependent on "the State".

Oh it kills my sensibilities as well. If life was fair, low paid workers would be able to get housing benefit, and then make their own choices about where to live. But that's not current policy in Ireland.

Like it or not, welfare is part of life for many working people in our economy: Child Allowance, Family Income Supplement, social housing, medical cards, state pensions - between them, low income working people are hugely supported by welfare.

Crusades

I will argue that privacy is a right. The right to keep a domain around us is fundamental.

I am totally against the concept of the Big Welfare State. I would regard any policy maker who believes that full-time workers should get housing benefit from the Welfare State to be stupid and shortsighted.

Regarding 30 and 40 year-old single people still stuck in house shares. Some people don't marry. Some people get divorced. Some people want to live alone. Living in communal dwellings is not conducive to family life (you can't have intimate family relations when strangers have the right to walk around). You can't live life not knowing who is going to be talking to you over breakfast from month to month.

Saipanne wrote: »

I live in a very nice area of Dublin in a large modern apartment. All while building up a nice nest egg. Yeah. A real fool.

Did you not have your nest egg ready to go in 2011/2012?

You are now 33 years old and you are still house sharing. I assume from your posts that you are also still traveling around on public transport.

I hazard a guess that you will still be paying someone else's mortgage when you're 43. When you can no longer work; your room will be rented to someone else and you will become the State's problem.

shruikan2553 wrote: »

It is a low paid job that requires little to no qualifications as far as I know. You can hardly expect someone who is just after their leaving cert working in aldi to be able to afford to live beside the software engineer with 10 years experience and a masters.

His "problems" are that he wants a lifestyle he cant afford. It is something everyone faces. He has choices but he decided to take the most expensive. Living in the capital city of a country is always expensive. I would like to avoid living in Dublin for the exact same reason. Affording it is one thing but I want to be able to save, hence living in Galway, Limerick or Cork.

There is a problem with a lack of housing but it's not like he is living in poverty either.



She wouldnt do anything unless it can be bent to make her look good.

An army has generals, colonels, lieutenants, sergeants, corporals, privates.

Not everyone can be an officer - for lots of perfectly valid reasons.

Men and women who sign up never make it to sergeant - they work hard, are loyal, honest and do their best. They are not failed people, they are the engine room of the army.

What I'm saying is that everyone who works hard is loyal and believes in the system should be afforded a decent standard of living.

This is not communism. In a free and functioning democracy, people are rewarded for their effort and are socially and economically mobile. Participating in the economy is bit like the game of snakes and ladders - there are winners and losers, but anyone can play. What we have in Ireland is a game of snakes and ladders that is 99% snakes due to cronyism and poor policy making.

The result is an ineffective work-reward system that is breeding resentment and despair. What we are witnessing is a breakdown of the social contract.

Housing people who don't work in very high standard dwellings that working people can't afford
and telling hard working unskilled people that they're not good enough to have privacy and should live in dormitories is not good enough IMO.

Only the "chiefs" (i.e. those earning about €50k+) get to live private lives?

The_Morrigan

Saipanne & Crusades - quit the sniping and squabbling; you are not to personalise your posts here. If you want to have an argument about personal circumstances take it to pm. No more warnings, next action will be a ban.

Crusades

shruikan2553 wrote: »

His "problems" are that he wants a lifestyle he cant afford. It is something everyone faces. He has choices but he decided to take the most expensive. Living in the capital city of a country is always expensive. I would like to avoid living in Dublin for the exact same reason. Affording it is one thing but I want to be able to save, hence living in Galway, Limerick or Cork.

There is a problem with a lack of housing but it's not like he is living in poverty either.

His monthly take home after transport + rent is €600.

People on the basic dole rate have more income (€814.67 for 0 hours work). People on the dole get most/all of their rent paid for. Many live in council houses.

Also, please stop pretending the man in question is "living in the capital city of a country". He isn't. He commutes in and out every day. You will get nowhere in Dublin city on the open market for €800 per month.

shruikan2553

Crusades wrote: »

An army has generals, colonels, lieutenants, sergeants, corporals, privates.

Not everyone can be an officer - for lots of perfectly valid reasons.

Men and women who sign up never make it to sergeant - they work hard, are loyal, honest and do their best. They are not failed people, they are the engine room of the army.

What I'm saying is that everyone who works hard is loyal and believes in the system should be afforded a decent standard of living.

This is not communism. In a free and functioning democracy, people are rewarded for their effort and are socially and economically mobile. Participating in the economy is bit like the game of snakes and ladders - there are winners and losers, but anyone can play. What we have in Ireland is a game of snakes and ladders that is 99% snakes due to cronyism and poor policy making.

The result is an ineffective work-reward system that is breeding resentment and despair. What we are witnessing is a breakdown of the social contract.

Housing people who don't work in very high standard dwellings that working people can't afford
and telling hard working unskilled people that they're not good enough to have privacy and should live in dormitories is not good enough IMO.

Only the "chiefs" (i.e. those earning about €50k+) get to live private lives?

If you want to live closer, in a nicer area/house or with less people you pay more. The vast majority of people do have a decent standard of living. As long as you have your own room then you have some privacy. Should only the rich have private swimming pools?

Crusades

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If you want to live closer, in a nicer area/house or with less people you pay more. The vast majority of people do have a decent standard of living. As long as you have your own room then you have some privacy. Should only the rich have private swimming pools?

You can't invite your nephews/nieces over for a birthday party (for example) with strangers walking around.

Unless you have a birthday party in your bedroom?!

I wonder how house sharers do Xmas dinner? Back to mum and dad's bedroom in a multiple occupancy dwelling?

Your final comment about "swimming pools" is ridiculous. But I will respond: Where on Maslow's hierarchy does a swimming pool fit in? Up there with water?

shruikan2553

Crusades wrote: »

You can't invite your nephews/nieces over for a birthday party (for example) with strangers walking around.

Unless you have a birthday party in your bedroom?!

I wonder how house sharers do Xmas dinner? Back to mum and dad's bedroom in a multiple occupancy dwelling?

Your final comment about "swimming pools" is ridiculous. But I will respond: Where on Maslow's hierarchy does a swimming pool fit in? Up there with water?

In a shared house you tend to inform the others if you are planning on having a party and are capable of using the rest of the house.

Most people in a shared house wouldn't have a family so would go elsewhere for Christmas. They could all band together and have Christmas dinner too.

It is around the same place as having an entire house or apartment to yourself.