Assault captured on video

mcko · 26-09-2014 9:31pm #1

Hi All,
Saw the RTE news at 9.00, the first clip was Enda Kenny arriving by car, a member of the public went up to make a point and he was elbowed and shoved back wards by a guy in a black suit and glasses, was he a garda.

jake66 · 26-09-2014 9:38pm

That was no gaurd.
Just another fanatical hanger on...

bravestar · 26-09-2014 10:51pm

mcko wrote: »

Hi All,
Saw the RTE news at 9.00, the first clip was Enda Kenny arriving by car, a member of the public went up to make a point and he was elbowed and shoved back wards by a guy in a black suit and glasses, was he a garda.

Why?

um7y1h83ge06nx · 26-09-2014 10:59pm

Was it Kevin Costner by any chance?

chasm · 27-09-2014 1:51am

mcko wrote: »

Hi All,
Saw the RTE news at 9.00, the first clip was Enda Kenny arriving by car, a member of the public went up to make a point and he was elbowed and shoved back wards by a guy in a black suit and glasses, was he a garda.

The guy doing the shoving was Frank Feighan, FG TD for Roscommon/Galway.

mcko · 27-09-2014 8:15am

Thanks for that , I would not expect that behaviour from a Garda.

Little CuChulainn · 27-09-2014 9:26am

mcko wrote: »

Thanks for that , I would not expect that behaviour from a Garda.

If you advance towards the Taoiseach from an angry crowd you probably should.

lighterman · 27-09-2014 9:38am

mcko wrote: »

Thanks for that , I would not expect that behaviour from a Garda.

But you do from a TD?

Preset No.3 · 27-09-2014 8:26pm

So its ok for the US Secret Service to protect the President, but if someone gets 'shoved' in Ireland there has to be enquiry?!

flutered · 27-09-2014 8:33pm

Preset No.3 wrote: »

So its ok for the US Secret Service to protect the President, but if someone gets 'shoved' in Ireland there has to be enquiry?!

we have different gun laws over here, also not as many loopers, a sitting senator in the us does not use voilence on a civilian.

hfallada · 27-09-2014 8:36pm

flutered wrote: »

we have different gun laws over here, also not as many loopers, a sitting senator in the us does not use voilence on a civilian.

The civilian ran at the taoiseach. He was not a complelety innocent by stander. Although the push was a bit extreme

Sully · 27-09-2014 8:39pm

Isn't Kenny's security private and not a Garda?

I wouldn't expect anything less when you go for the head of state but it's a bit extreme in Ireland for this kinda thing

mickdw · 27-09-2014 8:41pm

hfallada wrote: »

The civilian ran at the taoiseach. He was not a complelety innocent by stander. Although the push was a bit extreme

I don't believe the man from the crowd was going to attack Kenny. I believe the TD was making sure nobody got in before him to do the arse licking so gave the man a good elbowing to keep him back.

kjbsrah1 · 27-09-2014 8:47pm

There is a lot of dislike for Enda Kenny in Roscommon so its no surprise that there was a bit of argy bargy - He is a plonker!!

tayto lover · 27-09-2014 8:48pm

hfallada wrote: »

The civilian ran at the taoiseach. He was not a complelety innocent by stander. Although the push was a bit extreme

I didn't see anyone running at anyone else in that clip.
Feighan behaved like a thug. There was no need for the elbowing at all.

washman3 · 27-09-2014 8:58pm

Would really love if hardman Frank tried to shove/push/elbow me.
I can guarantee he would still be looking for most of his front teeth now.!!

Rightwing · 27-09-2014 9:00pm

He should have given the bogman a smash in face.

flutered · 28-09-2014 12:22am

hfallada wrote: »

The civilian ran at the taoiseach. He was not a complelety innocent by stander. Although the push was a bit extreme

te civilian ran at the t-shoch, now you are taking the proverbial, the t-shock was still in the car.

Think_then_talk · 28-09-2014 12:43am

I call upon any person who thinks a crime has been committed to report same to An Garda Síochána. Do not leave it to others to do so. Self Defense & Defense Of an Other is up to a JURY.

28-09-2014 7:10am

Think_then_talk wrote: »

I call upon any person who thinks a crime has been committed to report same to An Garda Síochána. Do not leave it to others to do so. Self Defense & Defense Of an Other is up to a JURY.

Well to report an alleged assault you need the alleged injured party to make the complaint.

And I believe that a party in this case has made a complaint or will do so according to the media.

Little CuChulainn · 28-09-2014 10:07am

washman3 wrote: »

Would really love if hardman Frank tried to shove/push/elbow me.
I can guarantee he would still be looking for most of his front teeth now.!!

I'm amused at all the high horse brigade who also happen to be threatening physical violence as a response. I'm sure the word irony is foreign to most of them.

tayto lover · 28-09-2014 1:31pm

Feighan clearly committed an assault.
An assault should not be condoned.

Zambia · 28-09-2014 3:05pm

So he may now make a complaint, some people have little to be concerned about. An over reaction to a moronic act would be my summation.

unichall · 28-09-2014 3:06pm

Meh, not really sure what all the fuss is about, sure he might be a bit overzealous but I'd hardly call it an assault.

tayto lover · 28-09-2014 3:18pm

unichall wrote: »

Meh, not really sure what all the fuss is about, sure he might be a bit overzealous but I'd hardly call it an assault.

A Common Law - an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

Zambia · 28-09-2014 3:19pm

tayto lover wrote: »

A Common Law - an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

And what are the possible defences to that ?

CatFromHue · 28-09-2014 3:21pm

nothing in this but people trying to score political points.

tayto lover · 28-09-2014 3:22pm

Zambia wrote: »

And what are the possible defences to that ?

There aren't any and the video clearly shows the intent of Feighan.
Why do you think he apologised if it was not an assault?

Both of them are probably prats but there was definitely an assault by one on the other.
There is no justification for it either.

Zambia · 28-09-2014 3:31pm

tayto lover wrote: »

There aren't any and the video clearly shows the intent of Feighan.
Why do you think he apologised if it was not an assault?

Both of them are probably prats but there was definitely an assault by one on the other.
There is no justification for it either.

There are defences to assault and it's a prosecutors task to discount each to obtain a result.

Fact is there is a defence there that would be hard to discount. From the clip his actions are a response.

The so called victim could be just guilty of assault given your definition above.

Shady Tady · 28-09-2014 3:34pm

I'd say frank must have played football for the Rossies, the are mighty with the elbows and masters of the third man tackle!

tayto lover · 28-09-2014 3:35pm

Zambia wrote: »

There are defences to assault and it's a prosecutors task to discount each to obtain a result.

Fact is there is a defence there that would be hard to discount. From the clip his actions are a response.

The so called victim could be just guilty of assault given your definition above.

There didn't seem to be intent in the old lad to assault Feighan but there was definitely intent in Feighan to assault him. You can clearly see that in the video. The old lad wasn't looking at Feighan at all until he was assaulted.

Little CuChulainn · 28-09-2014 4:13pm

tayto lover wrote: »

There didn't seem to be intent in the old lad to assault Feighan but there was definitely intent in Feighan to assault him. You can clearly see that in the video. The old lad wasn't looking at Feighan at all until he was assaulted.

Both lads are jostling to get at the car and Feighan comes out on top. You can't start something and then complain when you lose.

unichall · 28-09-2014 4:42pm

tayto lover wrote: »

A Common Law - an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

If you do 51kph in a 50kph zone by the letter of the law you are speeding but you're not really and won't ever be prosecuted for it, same here.

tayto lover · 28-09-2014 6:42pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Both lads are jostling to get at the car and Feighan comes out on top. You can't start something and then complain when you lose.

Using your elbow on someone is not jostling, it's assault.
The older lad approached the car to ask Enda a question and was assaulted by Feighan. He didn't fight back at all and seemed shocked by the treatment he received. Only one person did the assaulting.

tayto lover · 28-09-2014 6:43pm

unichall wrote: »

If you do 51kph in a 50kph zone by the letter of the law you are speeding but you're not really and won't ever be prosecuted for it, same here.

Poor analogy.

afatbollix · 28-09-2014 6:52pm

The lad pushed back was also a TD.

They are both running in the local by election. Its just gone back to school politics. One side is using the senior football captain to show off to the people and the other side was trying to ridicule him.

The story here should be how someone got so close to the leader of the state! That lad could of been some nutter looking to get revenge over something silly.

Last I checked knifes are not licenced here and can do just as much damage as a gun.

28-09-2014 7:14pm

afatbollix wrote: »

The story here should be how someone got so close to the leader of the state! That lad could of been some nutter looking to get revenge over something silly.

Last I checked knifes are not licenced here and can do just as much damage as a gun.

That's why he has a Garda Escort. If there is a hint that there might be a troublesome crowd then extra resources are deployed.

And isn't it a great country that people can approach the leader of the country and share their issues with him? Even if he doesn't do anything about it.

unichall · 28-09-2014 7:47pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Poor analogy.

Not really, I was alluding to it not really being an assault and more of an argy bargy and I was quoted the letter of the law by which yes it would be assault but, you would never get an assault charge out of it like my anology above, technically yes but in reality no

tayto lover · 28-09-2014 7:56pm

unichall wrote: »

Not really, I was alluding to it not really being an assault and more of an argy bargy and I was quoted the letter of the law by which yes it would be assault but, you would never get an assault charge out of it like my anology above, technically yes but in reality no

You should check your local court cases in the newspapers.
Cases like that every week.

Have another look at it and see who was the aggressor.

http://www.thejournal.ie/frank-feighan-garda-complaint-1694986-Sep2014/

unichall · 28-09-2014 8:36pm

tayto lover wrote: »

You should check your local court cases in the newspapers.
Cases like that every week.

Have another look at it and see who was the aggressor.

http://www.thejournal.ie/frank-feighan-garda-complaint-1694986-Sep2014/

I guess only time will tell but I can tell you an assault that minor if it had to be dealt with would be done via the adult caution system so I can't see how stuff like this ends up in the district court every week. I've certainly never seen a case this minor in court and god knows I spend enough time there

tayto lover · 28-09-2014 8:39pm

unichall wrote: »

I guess only time will tell but I can tell you an assault that minor if it had to be dealt with would be done via the adult caution system so I can't see how stuff like this ends up in the district court every week. I've certainly never seen a case this minor in court and god knows I spend enough time there

Maybe BUT only one of them would get the adult caution in this case and you know which one.

donvito99 · 28-09-2014 9:20pm

unichall wrote: »

If you do 51kph in a 50kph zone by the letter of the law you are speeding but you're not really and won't ever be prosecuted for it, same here.

tayto lover wrote: »

Poor analogy.

unichall wrote: »

Not really, I was alluding to it not really being an assault and more of an argy bargy and I was quoted the letter of the law by which yes it would be assault but, you would never get an assault charge out of it like my anology above, technically yes but in reality no

It's a poor analogy because there need not be intent to commit an offence such as speeding. It's a strict liability offence.

Think about it. If a Garda needed to prove there was intent to speed, nobody would be convicted.

washman3 · 28-09-2014 10:30pm

The swaggering arrogance that is the trademark of the blueshirts is incredible.
Just imagine their reaction if a Sinn Fein election candidate had behaved as the 'brave' Frank did yesterday.
Just hope the people see him for what he is come election time.!!

CatFromHue · 29-09-2014 12:59am

Stupid, absolutely stupid.

Little CuChulainn · 29-09-2014 7:25am

washman3 wrote: »

The swaggering arrogance that is the trademark of the blueshirts is incredible.

Are you referring to Gardaí or some other group?

washman3 · 29-09-2014 7:51am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Are you referring to Gardaí or some other group?

Ask your dad...;)

brooke 2 · 29-09-2014 7:59am

CatFromHue wrote: »

Stupid, absolutely stupid.

+1000!!!

Little CuChulainn · 29-09-2014 9:55am

washman3 wrote: »

Ask your dad...;)

How would he know what's going on in your head?

NUTLEY BOY · 29-09-2014 10:16am

You have the right to defend yourself.

That right applies similarly to the defence of others including even those who are strangers to you.

You are entitled to use reasonable force in effecting that defence. You cannot quantify reasonable force precisely. If it was reasonable and proportionate in all of the circumstances the "defender" is unlikely to face prosecution even if he went a shade too far.

Reasonable fear or apprehension of imminent attack on you or someone else is a fair reason to start defending yourself. You don't have to wait to be punched if you have proper belief that force or violence is about to be offered and delivered to you.

BTW I am offering no view of the merits of anyone's alleged conduct in this particular instance. I am just making an objective observation of principle.

washman3 · 29-09-2014 10:18am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

How would he know what's going on in your head?

He might know what's going on in hardman Frank's head...;)

tayto lover · 29-09-2014 2:20pm

I don't think we should involve politics in this at all.

If the same happened in a chipper, like if there was a queue and someone shouted and order across the man in front's head. If the man turned around and elbowed him because of that then he's committing an assault. Clearly.

Assault captured on video

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