Dream bike

Qualitymark

I'm just having an oul' dream about my ideal bike. So far I've got

• Light - 13.5kg or under
• Designed for women's shape - probably Dutch-made
• Hub gears for nicer changing in traffic
• Strong but light back carrier
• Good grippy tyres on wheels that won't weigh it down

Any ideas of what this paragon is likely to be? Best bike I've had was one of the old Vikings (before Viking sold out to someone or other). It was 30lb, or as a Walter Mitty friend who was currently dreaming himself to be an IRA commander said crisply in his new Tyrone accent, "The weight of two rifles". It had a long wheelbase that ate up bumps and sailed along happily, though turning it was a bit ocean-liner-like. Lovely bike.

fat bloke

One person's dream is another's nightmare

Idleater

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'm just having an oul' dream about my ideal bike...

• Light - 13.5kg or under

Jebus, you could get two bikes for that. :-D

Cee-Jay-Cee

A farm gate weighs less than 13.5kg!

My dream bike is what ever the nicest shiniest and most expensive bike I saw in the last lbs I was in, which was a Scott Foil 15 in this instance.

killalanerr

I own my dream bike. But I'm sure that will change in no time. Another reason to love cycling

letape

Idleater wrote: »

Jebus, you could get two bikes for that. :-D

Presume he means 13.5lb!

07Lapierre

Your dream bike is always your next bike. ( well mine is anyway) 😜

derealbadger

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

A farm gate weighs less than 13.5kg!

My dream bike is what ever the nicest shiniest and most expensive bike I saw in the last lbs I was in, which was a Scott Foil 15 in this instance.

ye that's what my dream was now i have one so on to the next dream

Qualitymark

Idleater wrote: »

Jebus, you could get two bikes for that. :-D

I don't want a super-light racing bike, I want a bike for ordinary cycling. Superlight bikes break under the weight of the bags of spuds and the like they're going to have to carry for me, and they're horrible and jerky to ride and you feel every bump you go over.

EmcD123

I'm 18 so my dream bike might not be as good as it seems in my head because I've never ridden one like it before but

A steel frame teal colour bianchi from the 80's with downtube shifters or single speed and lizard skin tone bar tape. I would treasure that bike but I'll never find one within my budget

Lumen

Qualitymark wrote: »

Superlight bikes break under the weight of the bags of spuds and the like they're going to have to carry for me

I know a few high end carbon racing bikes that regularly carry sacks of spuds up and down the hills of Wicklow.

smacl

Lumen wrote: »

I know a few high end carbon racing bikes that regularly carry sacks of spuds up and down the hills of Wicklow.

Phew, close one, only got an alu bike at the moment. Nearly got blighted there.

Dream bike? All this talk of Van Nicholas Yukon on the Ti thread has set my mind wandering. Like the OP, Dutch made and highly functional, but there the similarity ends. Built up on chorus, Brooks saddle, and rack with 12/30 at the back to make it suitable for light touring, and of course carrying bags of spuds over the Wicklow hills.

Qualitymark

smacl wrote: »

Built up on chorus, Brooks saddle, and rack with 12/30 at the back.

What does this mean, please?

I've been looking at Dutch catalogues, but they must be men of steel with bikes of aluminium there; many of the bikes described in sleek, lightweight and sporty terms top 50lb

http://www.gazellebikes.com/~/media/Files/UK/GAZE1411_StadsTrekking_UK_Lores.ashx

smacl

Qualitymark wrote: »

What does this mean, please?

Brooks make very comfortable leather saddles that are favoured by long distance riders and tourers. I currently have one on both of my bikes and wouldn't be without them. They would be well worth considering for your Dutch bike.

Chorus is a set of gearing components made by Italian company Campagnolo, and 12/30 refers to the number of teeth on the rear sprockets. The 30 means that you can spin the pedals quickly without going fast, making climbing hills with extra weight that bit easier. Your 13.5kg Dutch bike for example would take a far stronger rider to get up a long or steep hill, particularly if loaded. The 12 is the reverse, meaning that on flatter sections and descents you can maintain decent speeds. Campagnolo gearing is what I'm used to, and find very comfortable, and also has a good name for reliability and serviceability.

Oh, and the rack to allow panniers for the light touring.

Qualitymark

smacl wrote: »

Brooks make very comfortable leather saddles that are favoured by long distance riders and tourers. I currently have one on both of my bikes and wouldn't be without them. They would be well worth considering for your Dutch bike.

Chorus is a set of gearing components made by Italian company Campagnolo, and 12/30 refers to the number of teeth on the rear sprockets. The 30 means that you can spin the pedals quickly without going fast, making climbing hills with extra weight that bit easier. Your 13.5kg Dutch bike for example would take a far stronger rider to get up a long or steep hill, particularly if loaded. The 12 is the reverse, meaning that on flatter sections and descents you can maintain decent speeds. Campagnolo gearing is what I'm used to, and find very comfortable, and also has a good name for reliability and serviceability.

Oh, and the rack to allow panniers for the light touring.

Ah, thanks.

My next bike will have hub gears; while in theory derailleurs are wonderful for climbing, I seem to jinx them; they invariably stop working after a couple of weeks on any bike I ride.

Seweryn

Qualitymark wrote: »

Any ideas of what this paragon is likely to be?

This one looks decent and ticks the boxes of your requirements:

http://www.vannicholas.com/33/Amazon_Rohloff_Ladies/bike.aspx

Looks like a nice, long lasting machine.

eeeee

Seen the non-integrated seat post version of this in the flesh, and my was it beautiful:




*swoon*

My ream road bike is a Willier Zero. Yum.

Qualitymark

Seweryn wrote: »

This one looks decent and ticks the boxes of your requirements:

http://www.vannicholas.com/33/Amazon_Rohloff_Ladies/bike.aspx

Looks like a nice, long lasting machine.

Unfortunately, this brought me only to a design template.

Seweryn

Qualitymark wrote: »

Unfortunately, this brought me only to a design template.

http://www.cyclelogical-newcastle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5815


Road test of the men's version:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/touring/product/review-van-nicholas-amazon-rohloff-08-30871/

cjt156

gadetra wrote: »

Seen the non-integrated seat post version of this in the flesh, and my was it beautiful:




*swoon*

My ream road bike is a Willier Zero. Yum.

What's the Spud-Rating* on this bike?



* TM

Qualitymark

cjt156 wrote: »

What's the Spud-Rating* on this bike?



* TM

Looks like a King Edward to me.

eeeee

cjt156 wrote: »

What's the Spud-Rating* on this bike?



* TM

Delicious.

It really is beautiful in the flesh, stunning bike. Top potato:pac:

rollingscone

Good luck getting around Wicklow on it!

magicbastarder

so it's just me who think that bike looks like a clown bike?

Alek

You're not alone.

QueensGael

This lovely baby might suffice - Trek Allant women specific design. I use this for work, tipping around town and spud carrying (it's excellent at that). This is a 2012 model, not sure it's still being sold though, might have to go for a second hand one

http://classiccycleus.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2012-Trek-Womens-Allant.jpg

eeeee

magicbastarder wrote: »

so it's just me who think that bike looks like a clown bike?

No! Think Nemo bike!


*puts hands in ears at taunts of clownliness*


If it worked for Theo Bos it would make me at least a second a lap faster. At least.

*sits happily in denial*



Ok with non integrated seat post:


Eh?? swoon!

Big Eejit

Qualitymark wrote: »

I don't want a super-light racing bike, I want a bike for ordinary cycling. Superlight bikes break under the weight of the bags of spuds and the like they're going to have to carry for me, and they're horrible and jerky to ride and you feel every bump you go over.

Ah, but at least you can have fun on a 'super-light racing bike'.

Addendum: I have every bike I want; steel touring/commuter, alu MTB, alu racer (the fun bike).

SilverLiningOK

Qualitymark wrote: »

I don't want a super-light racing bike, I want a bike for ordinary cycling. Superlight bikes break under the weight of the bags of spuds and the like they're going to have to carry for me, and they're horrible and jerky to ride and you feel every bump you go over.

Got a Dutch 3 speed a couple of weeks ago. Haven't regretted it so far, even choosing the step through frame (and I am a guy). Yes, steel framed bikes are heavy but they absorb the shocks well and are very comfortable to ride. Proper Dutch bikes set up with front carrier with optional basket/crate and large Dutch panniers can carry loads without much effect on the handling. These bikes are not speedy but they are not for winning races. They really come into their own for short to medium urban journies in everyday clothing carrying stuff with ease.

Do the research, try some bikes from the few shops out there that stock these. Some extra features may be worth considering such as dynamo lights and more gears, but as you would expect cost more. Beware of bicycles imitating Dutch bikes, with exposed brakes etc. Hub gears and roller brakes are important in that they are low maintenance and pretty much weather proof.

Qualitymark

QueensGael wrote: »

This lovely baby might suffice - Trek Allant women specific design. I use this for work, tipping around town and spud carrying (it's excellent at that). This is a 2012 model, not sure it's still being sold though, might have to go for a second hand one

http://classiccycleus.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2012-Trek-Womens-Allant.jpg

Couldn't find a listing that said what weight it is. Do you know how much it weighs?

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

Got a Dutch 3 speed a couple of weeks ago. Haven't regretted it so far, even choosing the step through frame (and I am a guy). Yes, steel framed bikes are heavy but they absorb the shocks well and are very comfortable to ride. Proper Dutch bikes set up with front carrier with optional basket/crate and large Dutch panniers can carry loads without much effect on the handling. These bikes are not speedy but they are not for winning races. They really come into their own for short to medium urban journies in everyday clothing carrying stuff with ease.

Do the research, try some bikes from the few shops out there that stock these. Some extra features may be worth considering such as dynamo lights and more gears, but as you would expect cost more. Beware of bicycles imitating Dutch bikes, with exposed brakes etc. Hub gears and roller brakes are important in that they are low maintenance and pretty much weather proof.

There's heavy and heavy. I'm not a muscular six-footer, and lifting my current 13.6kg bike up a couple of steps when it's loaded down with spuds etc is not always something I can do.

As far as gears go, I kind of have my heart set on hub gears; I'd retrofit, but they're incredibly dear - €200ish - if you do.

I'm also a bit frightened of my current bike, which likes to whip around its front wheel and bite me - my shins are always covered in bruises - if I give it the slightest chance to get off balance.

SilverLiningOK

Qualitymark wrote: »

Couldn't find a listing that said what weight it is. Do you know how much it weighs?



There's heavy and heavy. I'm not a muscular six-footer, and lifting my current 13.6kg bike up a couple of steps when it's loaded down with spuds etc is not always something I can do.

As far as gears go, I kind of have my heart set on hub gears; I'd retrofit, but they're incredibly dear - €200ish - if you do.

I'm also a bit frightened of my current bike, which likes to whip around its front wheel and bite me - my shins are always covered in bruises - if I give it the slightest chance to get off balance.

Then you have to keep away from the real heavies such Azor, Workcycles, Batavus, some Gazelle etc., some not available here. BSP and Electra are sold here and may have lighter models but still have load carrying features. The whipping around front wheel can be remedied by a sprung device called a steering stabiliser. Are you currently carrying most stuff on rear carrier ? That also creates much instability. Having a frame mounted front carrier, as distinct from fork mounted, gives you more options for weight distribution. Going for lighter frame may reduce the loads possible a little.

rp

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'm just having an oul' dream about my ideal bike. So far I've got....

A Budnitz #4 should fit the bill nicely: http://budnitzbicycles.com/bicycles/view/n4-titanium
11-speed Alfine, Carbon drive, nice & light, unisex frame, takes mudguards.
Just add a hub-dynamo LED lighting set-up and you're good to go.

CramCycle

Qualitymark wrote: »

• Light - 13.5kg or under
• Designed for women's shape - probably Dutch-made
• Hub gears for nicer changing in traffic
• Strong but light back carrier
• Good grippy tyres on wheels that won't weigh it down

Genesis Day one covers all or PLanet X kaffenback with added hub gearing like here: http://road.cc/content/classified/95973-planet-x-kaffenback-alfine-8-super-commuterwinter-road-bike

When you say Womens shape do you mean a step through?

Qualitymark

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

The whipping around front wheel can be remedied by a sprung device called a steering stabiliser. Are you currently carrying most stuff on rear carrier ? That also creates much instability.

The whipping-around happens whether the bike is loaded or unloaded.

Mostly I carry stuff in a basket-shaped bag in the front, which clips on and off; if I'm doing a larger shop I add an old Carradice pannier on the back.

CramCycle wrote: »

When you say Womens shape do you mean a step through?

Not really. My current (Dawes) bike is a step-through frame. But when I got onto a bike in Holland I suddenly felt completely comfortable, because the *proportions* were right. (This was an old Pelikaan; I had just arranged to have it shipped home when it was stolen in Amsterdam.)

I've been told by Dutch people that Dutch women's bicycles are not scaled-down and step-through versions of men's bikes, but are designed for the different proportions of women's bodies.

SilverLiningOK

Qualitymark wrote: »

The whipping-around happens whether the bike is loaded or unloaded.

Mostly I carry stuff in a basket-shaped bag in the front, which clips on and off; if I'm doing a larger shop I add an old Carradice pannier on the back.



Not really. My current (Dawes) bike is a step-through frame. But when I got onto a bike in Holland I suddenly felt completely comfortable, because the *proportions* were right. (This was an old Pelikaan; I had just arranged to have it shipped home when it was stolen in Amsterdam.)

I've been told by Dutch people that Dutch women's bicycles are not scaled-down and step-through versions of men's bikes, but are designed for the different proportions of women's bodies.

When looking at catalogues and online, you can clearly see this. The proportions of the frame tubing are different. That's why you have to look out for the imitators, no matter what the brand. Did you look at BSP and Electra ? The frames are much lighter than the steel framed heavies. You are clearly not rushing to buy the first bike you see, you know what you want. Stick with the research, it usually pays off. If you haven't already, check out Constance Winters excellent blog Lovelybicycle. She covers upright bicycles, transport cycling and step through frame design, amoungst so many other things, so well.

Lumen

Qualitymark wrote: »

I've been told by Dutch people that Dutch women's bicycles are not scaled-down and step-through versions of men's bikes, but are designed for the different proportions of women's bodies.

Women don't really have differently proportioned bodies to men, at least in terms of what matters to bicycle design.

eeeee

Lumen wrote: »

Women don't really have differently proportioned bodies to men, at least in terms of what matters to bicycle design.

yes they do. Take reach for example. According to some bike manufacturers fitting guides I should be on a 58 or 60 based on inseam and height, but I actually fit on a 54 due to having a short torso and long limbs. Bikes are usually too long, built for the male body shape of shorter legs longer body so a tiny stem is in order, even on a 54.

Lumen

gadetra wrote: »

Eh yes they do. Take reach for example. According to some bike manufacturers fitting guides I should be on a 58 or 60 based on inseam and height, but I actually fit on a 54 due to having a short torso and long limbs. Bikes are usually too long, built for the male body shape of shorter legs longer body so a tiny stem is in order, even on a 54.

Woman is not women.

Lots written on this, e.g.

http://www.active.com/triathlon/articles/finding-the-perfect-bike-fit-and-frame-dimension

When I wrote the first edition of The Female Cyclist (published in 1999), I used anthropometric data available from the U.S. military. Using this original data set, the major fit concerns (given a male and female of equal leg lengths) were arm reach to the hoods or drops, and hand size.

As an example, let's compare data for females and males with 65-inch leg length. With equal leg lengths, the data showed that arm length for women was, on average, shorter by two inches. In addition to shorter arms, these sample women tended to have hands that were 0.7 inches smaller than the sample men's hand.

...

This data worked well when examining bike fit. However, the average male in the original data set used was 69 inches compared to the average female at 64 inches—a five-inch difference. When The Female Cyclist was written, most bicycles were manufactured to meet the needs of the average cyclist—that being an average-sized male.

...

I am now in the process of reexamining anthropometric data using "The Measure of Man & Woman," published in 2002. What I found in this more recent collection of data is that the difference between the average U.S. male and female, in the critical dimensions affecting bicycle fit, is very small. Proportional to height, the male and female dimensions of leg length, hand length and arm length are very close in this more recent data set.

Alek

gadetra wrote: »

built for the male body shape of shorter legs longer body

I didn't know I'm womanly in shape :eek:


From: http://www.womenscycling.ca/blog/georgena-terry/womens-body-proportions-different-mens/

There are studies which measure the lengths of men’s and women’s legs, arms, upper bodies, and so on. These measurements show that women have shorter legs and longer torsos than men as a proportion of their heights.

[...]

For the answer, I turned to Carnegie-Mellon University, where I received my B.S. in Mechanical Engineering. Laura Lund, a student there, undertook the project to determine why women were uncomfortable on their bikes. She confirmed my research about women’s body proportions — shorter legs and longer upper bodies. But she also discovered that the center of mass of women’s body is not the same as men’s.

and:

But buy the bike that fits you best. That’s what matters in the long run, not whether you ride a “women specific design”.

Qualitymark

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

Did you look at BSP and Electra ? The frames are much lighter than the steel framed heavies. You are clearly not rushing to buy the first bike you see, you know what you want.

Quick look at BSP shows bikes at about 20kg, which is a bit of a monster. Looked at Electras but couldn't see weights listed in their specs…?
Are these really female-shaped?

eeeee

Interesting re the new data. It could be just that I'm a weird shape then. Anecdotally I have never met a guy the same height as me who had longer legs than me ( and some taller. Actually only those over 6' plus and even then not many. One of my friends is 6'2" and he only has a 31" leg :eek:) . They're out there for sure I just haven't met them.

Alek all the best people are spider shaped

Now who makes bikes for spider people? :pac:

QualityMark 20kg is insane :eek:

magicbastarder

my wife had to get a man's geometry bike; she's just over 5'10" and has a 36" inside leg, and has long arms to match.

Alek

One of my friends is 6'2" and he only has a 31" leg

I am 6'2" and my leg is 35". Yet I still ride 58cm Cx frame (with even shorter top tube) and 172,5 cranks. Very comfortable.

eeeee

magicbastarder wrote: »

my wife had to get a man's geometry bike; she's just over 5'10" and has a 36" inside leg, and has long arms to match.

I'm similar size to you wife but half am inch shorter. I find women's fit bikes too cramped and men's too long. I'm must be the Goldilock's of bike fitting!

Interesting Alek, maybe a 52 with more seat post with a good bit pug set back and a long stem would be better for me. Hmmm.

Lumen

gadetra wrote: »

Anecdotally I have never met a guy the same height as me who had longer legs than me

I believe that longer leg length in women is a deeply ingrained belief that no amount of measuring can counter.

eeeee

Lumen wrote: »

I believe that longer leg length in women is a deeply ingrained belief that no amount of measuring can counter.

I can only speak from my experience and that's what my experience had borne out. It could well be, and probably is that I have overly long legs for my height irrespective of gender, but I have met women with longer legs than me at my height but never a guy. I need to start hanging out with leggier men folk!

Qualitymark

It's true that some women have long legs and arms, and a man-shape bike is fine for them. Lucky women. It's not so for me, and I'm looking for a bike that suits my shape (small, pudgy, short-legged, longish-armed) and strength (light) and needs (suitable for traffic and strong enough to carry a few kilos of shopping).

CramCycle

Could you take the technical specs of your old bike and see what is closest to it in the current market, alot of bikes from Greenaer, thedutchbikeshop etc. that sounds like they would be suitable (but possibly expensive)

smacl

Qualitymark wrote: »

It's true that some women have long legs and arms, and a man-shape bike is fine for them. Lucky women. It's not so for me, and I'm looking for a bike that suits my shape (small, pudgy, short-legged, longish-armed) and strength (light) and needs (suitable for traffic and strong enough to carry a few kilos of shopping).

My wife is also pretty short at just under 5ft and gets on pretty well with her Giant Escape which is quite light, cheap, and robust and works fine with a basket on the front. I kind of wonder whether those heavier Dutch bikes make sense for a smaller person, as they really push up the ratio of total rider and bike weight to available pedalling muscle. The woman specific version is the Alight City, which may be worth a look. You can also save a whack of weight by choosing the right tyres, for example at 35c Marathon plus weigh 900g whereas for a couple of quid more the 35c Marathon supreme weighs 440g for a tyre that still offers great puncture protection. That saves nearly a kilo over two tyres for ~€120.

SilverLiningOK

Qualitymark wrote: »

Quick look at BSP shows bikes at about 20kg, which is a bit of a monster. Looked at Electras but couldn't see weights listed in their specs…?
Are these really female-shaped?

Couldn't see weight for Electra either. The dealer here for then is in Dun Laoighaire http://thebikerack.ie/electra-bikes/ It might be worth having a look. Freewheeling in Pearse Street stock BSP and some other practical bicycles. Getting something under 20 kg with load carrying ability looks tricky. Until recently I was using a light hybrid for such use and spokes kept breaking on rear wheel due to carrying too much.

You could ask Astrid at the Dutch Bike Shop, if she can knows of anything that might match your criteria. She's Dutch and is expanding the range with new brands all the time. Otherwise you might have to broaden the types of bicycles you are looking at. You need a lighter bike to be able to carry indoors for storage ?

One suggestion is a Brompton folding bike. I have one of those too and it does carry loads quite well with various luggage options. They start off weighting less than 12 kg. They are quite expensive but are easy to store indoors, our two live in under stairs cupboard. Yes, my wife has one too. She is not very tall and manages bike fine. Might seem like a mad idea but worth considering. Cycle Sugery in Dundrum TC sell then and can get them from UK stock quite quickly.

smacl

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

Freewheeling in Pearse Street stock BSP and some other practical bicycles. Getting something under 20 kg with load carrying ability looks tricky.

I would have thought that 20kg before you've even picked up the spuds would be impractical itself if there are many hills between you and shops. Worth remembering that Ireland is not the Netherlands when picking a bike.