Calf Raises. What's the point?

deadlybuzzman

I've just started an ed coan programme I came across (not the phillipi one) and a lot of the days have calf Raises at the end of the sessions.
Am I missing some detail about how useful calf Raises can be? I've not done them since the last century as I've thought of them as being a waste of time that be better spent

deadlybuzzman

Here's the programme

http://castironknowledge.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/ed-coan-10-week-training-template.html?m=1

Nervous Wreck

Raise a calf, end up with a cow, sell it, buy dumbbells, profit.

deadlybuzzman

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Raise a calf, end up with a cow, sell it, buy dumbbells, profit.

Me buying a calf would be like an alcoholic buying a bar

Alf Veedersane

Why would they be a waste of time?

deadlybuzzman

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Why would they be a waste of time?

Because they wouldn't help any of the big lifts or am I wrong presuming that?
plus even when I was a scrawny waif every other part of me needed bringing up more than my calves

Oregano_State

Running is good for them. But yeah, some people have naturally mahoosive calves, others don't.

deadlybuzzman

Oregano_State wrote: »

Running is good for them. But yeah, some people have naturally mahoosive calves, others don't.

Yeah that was me. I had the physique of a bowling pin!

Alf Veedersane

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Because they wouldn't help any of the big lifts or am I wrong presuming that?
plus even when I was a scrawny waif every other part of me needed bringing up more than my calves

I've never met a muscle that didn't benefit from being stronger.

They don't take that much time so I would give them the time programmed. If the time to do them is an issue, your lifts won't suffer much from not doing them but you can only benefit from strengthening the chain.

They might not get bigger but that's not the point.

deadlybuzzman

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

you can only benefit from strengthening the chain.

.

That's basically what was floating around the back of my head. When you're at the bottom of a squat and coming back up your knee is moving backwards increasing the distance between it and your toes, the same as in calf Raises. Maybe I'm majoring in the minors but is that a valid point and hence worth not replacing with something else?

Alf Veedersane

I don't really think about calf raises and my calves are pathetic-looking. But I don't think I'd benefit from skipping them. It's one of those things where you wonder if your time would be better spent elsewhere but genuinely, you can't suffer for it, in my humble opinion

Hanley

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

m majoring in the minors but is that a valid point and hence worth not replacing with something else?

Probably because any big training on a major muscle group would negatively effect recovery.

generic2012

I don't know if the time required to train them would be worth it for me but if someone else had more time it wouldn't be detrimental, I'd imagine. I don't know how beneficial it would be to the (power)lifts, but I see lots of people on youtube with a massive squat and deadlift and small calf muscles which, to me anyway, would suggest they aren't involved too a significant amount in the lifts, which might suggest that they aren't worth working on at the expense of say mobility or whatever. For me personally any time I have is spent on mobility and if there is time after that rear delt work. I suppose get you priorities in check, and see if calves fit in.

Hanley

Know one of the best reasons to train calves heavy? Every rep is a loaded stretch taking your ankles to end range ROM.

Would more mobile ankles lead to a better position and heavier squat?

generic2012

Hanley wrote: »

Know one of the best reasons to train calves heavy? Every rep is a loaded stretch taking your ankles to end range ROM.

Would more mobile ankles lead to a better position and heavier squat?

Not disagreeing but if you can get to parallel, is it of benefit to increase ROM beyond that point? Obviously I'm talking about weight lifted at a meet, not pure strength, joint health, overall development etc.

I used a seated calf machine with heavy weight to help with dorsiflexion for a long time but that was a few static holds before squats, I wouldn't call it calf training, but where you're coming from makes sense.

Ivan.Drago

High rep unweighted calf raises can benefit Achilles tendon health, so they have benefits to areas other than the calf as Hanley has also mentioned.

Hanley

generic2012 wrote: »

Not disagreeing but if you can get to parallel, is it of benefit to increase ROM beyond that point? Obviously I'm talking about weight lifted at a meet, not pure strength, joint health, overall development etc.

I used a seated calf machine with heavy weight to help with dorsiflexion for a long time but that was a few static holds before squats, I wouldn't call it calf training, but where you're coming from makes sense.

You can get to parallel a number of ways in a squat. That just talks about your hip position relative to your knee and says very little about the actual biomechanical efficiency of your position.

If you have to lean way over because your knees hit a road block before they cross your toes, that won't do any good. But if you can stay tall and keep good positions, the squat is easier and you're stronger.

So yes, there's a definite benefit to have the correct range of movement at your ankle.

generic2012

Hanley wrote: »

You can get to parallel a number of ways in a squat. That just talks about your hip position relative to your knee and says very little about the actual biomechanical efficiency of your position.

If you have to lean way over because your knees hit a road block before they cross your toes, that won't do any good. But if you can stay tall and keep good positions, the squat is easier and you're stronger.

So yes, there's a definite benefit to have the correct range of movement at your ankle.

I agree with all that but I thought you were suggesting a benefit to increased ROM beyond what is necessary for breaking parallel.

Hanley

generic2012 wrote: »

I agree with all that but I thought you were suggesting a benefit to increased ROM beyond what is necessary for breaking parallel.

No, I'm saying that increasing ROM may allow you to break parallel in a better position.

Remmy

Ivan.Drago wrote: »

High rep unweighted calf raises can benefit Achilles tendon health, so they have benefits to areas other than the calf as Hanley has also mentioned.

+1 weighted calf drops are quite good for this.

Hanley

Hanley wrote: »

No, I'm saying that increasing ROM may allow you to break parallel in a better position.

Just to clear this up;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBtZ0xy2I7c

generic2012

Hanley wrote: »

Just to clear this up;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBtZ0xy2I7c

Yeah, I understand perfectly. Although I suspect position 1 would be rare with a barbell on your back, I'd imagine the heels would lift, rather than shins staying perpendicular. The way you had to have your arms out in front as a counter-balance goes a long way in showing that hitting depth with perpendicular shins and the weight behind your neck would be very difficult, if possible at all.

Again, just to clear up, I meant ankle mobility beyond what is necessary to break even. For example, I have the requisite ankle and hip mobility to comfortably break parallel in flat shoes, I personally don't think adding calf work to increase my ankle flexibility is worthwhile.

But I agree with what you're saying, calf work for ankle mobility is worthwhile if you have bad ankle mobility.

I've seen the OP on youtube and the lifting leader board 2014 thread and I don't think ankle mobility is an issue for him, so I don't think calf work to increase ankle mobility is time best spent for him.

GiftofGab

It’s also done to look proportional. If you want big thighs / hamstrings then also work the calves.

It’s like having big biceps / triceps but tiny forearms – but unlike the calves the forearms get worked when doing any sort of pulling exercise with arms.

I just think that working the legs without working the calves is a bit stupid. If wearing long shorts you can see a big body but tiny calves (won’t be able to see legs on long shorts).

deadlybuzzman

Well I gave them a lash this evening. Holy fuark they hurt I had no idea my calves were so tight. ROM has definitely been increased!

JJayoo

A handy way to do weighted calf raises is to use a dipping/pullup belt. Much handier than using a smith machine imo

Lee_Torre

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Holy fuark they hurt I had no idea my calves were so tight.

For me this is the problem, they are a muscle that doesn't get a ton of attention but they hurt more than ANYTHING. (I still do them though.)