Dublin Bikes €150 charge

MagicMarker

I signed up for the 3 day ticket yesterday and just seen that they've debited my card €150. I thought they only did this if the bike hadn't been returned within 24 hours?

I docked the bike at a station minutes after getting it and even had I managed to **** that up, it was less than 24 hours ago!

AnonoBoy

MagicMarker wrote: »

I signed up for the 3 day ticket yesterday and just seen that they've debited my card €150. I thought they only did this if the bike hadn't been returned within 24 hours?

I docked the bike at a station minutes after getting it and even had I managed to **** that up, it was less than 24 hours ago!

I know it says that the 150 is only taken if the bike isn't returned but perhaps it's different for the three day ticket?

I'd get straight on to them if I was you.

28064212

Did you use a debit card? Hotels and car rentals can put a hold on funds if a debit card is used (instead of a credit card), I'd imagine this is similar. In which case the funds would be released within 7 days. But you should contact them anyway to make sure. Possibly, you didn't replace the bike correctly, or the system didn't register the return

MagicMarker

I used a visa debit card. No where on their website does it say anything about taking money up front. It specifically says that it is only taken if the bike is not returned within 24 hours...Even if I didn't return it properly, it has not yet been 24 hours. I specifically checks the FAQS before I did anything because of this. I obviously would never have subscribed to the service had I known.

http://www.dublinbikes.ie/How-does-it-work/Frequently-Asked-Questions/Subscriptions#faq0

When is the guarantee debited?
The guarantee (€150) is only debited in the event of theft or failure to return the bike within 24 hours. In the event of a problem, you can contact the Call Centre on 1850 777 070.

I called the number above and they said for debit cards the money is taken up front, and it can take a MONTH to have it returned. I called my bank and they said a chargeback can take up to 45 days.

Unbelievable.

daUbiq

MagicMarker wrote: »

I used a visa debit card. No where on their website does it say anything about taking money up front. It specifically says that it is only taken if the bike is not returned within 24 hours...Even if I didn't return it properly, it has not yet been 24 hours. I specifically checks the FAQS before I did anything because of this. I obviously would never have subscribed to the service had I known.

http://www.dublinbikes.ie/How-does-it-work/Frequently-Asked-Questions/Subscriptions#faq0



I called the number above and they said for debit cards the money is taken up front, and it can take a MONTH to have it returned. I called my bank and they said a chargeback can take up to 45 days.

Unbelievable.

You wouldn't think we bailed the bloody banks out of trouble, would you?

28064212

MagicMarker wrote: »

I used a visa debit card. No where on their website does it say anything about taking money up front.

The money isn't actually taken, it's a "pre-authorisation". A small distinction, but an important one. Hotels and car rentals do the same. It's a limitation of using debit cards instead of credit ones

Never heard of funds taking a month to be released, it's usually up to 5 working days

MagicMarker

Well it's come off my bank balance, so it's as well as taken from my perspective.

JaMarcusHustle

I'm pretty sure it says it when signing up at the machine that a hold will be placed on your debit card. I know this because I was about to buy a 3 day ticket at one of the terminals but only had my debit card on me and I decided not to due to that warning.

custom_build

daUbiq wrote: »

You wouldn't think we bailed the bloody banks out of trouble, would you?

Random

MagicMarker

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it says it when signing up at the machine that a hold will be placed on your debit card. I know this because I was about to buy a 3 day ticket at one of the terminals but only had my debit card on me and I decided not to due to that warning.

I didn't see that tbh, there's no way I would have gone through with it if I had (would anyone??). But it's possible that it was there and that I missed it. As I said I had specifically checked the website for all this kind of stuff before hand and there's nothing about it highlighted, so felt self enough to go ahead and subscribe.

JaMarcusHustle

MagicMarker wrote: »

I didn't see that tbh, there's no way I would have gone through with it if I had (would anyone??). But it's possible that it was there and that I missed it. As I said I had specifically checked the website for all this kind of stuff before hand and there's nothing about it highlighted, so felt self enough to go ahead and subscribe.

Yeah it's definitely not mentioned on the website. Same as yourself, I had checked the website first and all seemed good to go.

Bandara

dublin bikes have most likely done nothing wrong, they haven't 'charged' anything to your card.

The banks here can't deal with the pre authorising on a debit card like they can with a credit card. They essentail put what is called a shadow on your card where they do not debit any funds but they 'freeze' them.

Whoever told you that it takes a month is clueless. It takes approx 3-4 days in they use the same bank as you do and 5-6 days if its different bank. If you contact your bank (and speak to someone who understands) they can speed up the process for you and instruct the shadow to be removed.

This happens constantly at prepaid fuel pumps, again in that case its not the garage its the bank that causes this

foggy_lad

That pre-authorisation on accounts can take anywhere from a few days to 28days to be released. This all depends on the company and their policy and also your bank and their policy on handling these pre-authorisations.

seamus

MagicMarker wrote: »

I called the number above and they said for debit cards the money is taken up front, and it can take a MONTH to have it returned. I called my bank and they said a chargeback can take up to 45 days.

A month is the absolute maximum the pre-auth can hold for before the card issuer automatically cancels it.

Afaik, the maximum pre-auth for debit cards is five days, due to the obvious difference in being denied funds from your current account than a credit card.

In reality once your 3-day ticket has expired, they will just take the €2 amount and release the pre-auth; the funds will be available pretty much within 24 hours.

The "up to a month" just gives them a buffer in case there's a dispute or a technical failure or whatever. But I don't think that timescale is valid for debit cards.

MagicMarker

Thanks guys, I got them to cancel the ticket today when I called. With any luck I'll have it back within the week.

hfallada

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it says it when signing up at the machine that a hold will be placed on your debit card. I know this because I was about to buy a 3 day ticket at one of the terminals but only had my debit card on me and I decided not to due to that warning.

I seen that too once before. It advises you to use a credit card instead of debit cards due to €150 charge

monument

From the terms of service which you have to have agreed to read before subscribing:

"The customer inserts a credit card (Visa or Mastercard are accepted, however, please note that prepaid credit cards, debit cards, and cash are not acceptable) into the card reader and keys in the corresponding PIN, thereby giving the Provider, after authorisation from the credit card provider, a pre-authorisation to debit an amount of €150 for a maximum duration of 30 days, depending on the nature of the customer credit card account. The cost of the subscription for the 3 Day Ticket is debited as well as any service charges incurred over the three day period, after the expiry of the 3 Day Ticket subscription period."

https://abo-dublin.cyclocity.fr/content/download/6103/48528/version/15/file/General+Conditions+of+Access+and+Use.pdf

That's actually written clearer than what's on the site without looking for the terms of service.

So, while they are in the wrong for not clearly stating that debit cards are not ok, you're also in the wrong for using one and not reading the terms of service.

MagicMarker

monument wrote: »

From the terms of service which you have to have agreed to read before subscribing:

"The customer inserts a credit card (Visa or Mastercard are accepted, however, please note that prepaid credit cards, debit cards, and cash are not acceptable) into the card reader and keys in the corresponding PIN, thereby giving the Provider, after authorisation from the credit card provider, a pre-authorisation to debit an amount of €150 for a maximum duration of 30 days, depending on the nature of the customer credit card account. The cost of the subscription for the 3 Day Ticket is debited as well as any service charges incurred over the three day period, after the expiry of the 3 Day Ticket subscription period."

https://abo-dublin.cyclocity.fr/content/download/6103/48528/version/15/file/General%2BConditions%2Bof%2BAccess%2Band%2BUse.pdf

That's actually written clearer than what's on the site without looking for the terms of service.

So, while they are in the wrong for not clearly stating that debit cards are not ok, you're also in the wrong for using one and not reading the terms of service.

I'm sorry, I don't agree that that's written in any kind of clear manner at all. In fact it's perfectly unclear, as nowhere does it state that "oh but IF you do happen to use a debit card (a card that's apparently not acceptable but yet magically accepted) we will take/hold/freeze/whatever terminology you want to use, this amount immediately".

I don't agree that "pre-authorised" is a clear term, I assume that is what you refer to. If an amount is going to be temporarily remove from my bank balance, then I want that spelled out in plain English.

Also, am I really expected to stand and read the small print at a terminal at 5.30pm on a busy street in Dublin, with 10 people queuing up behind me? (I'm not even exaggerating here, there were that many people behind me by the time I'd managed to sign up, I'd have been lynched had I taken any longer).

monument

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't agree that that's written in any kind of clear manner at all. In fact it's perfectly unclear, as nowhere does it state that "oh but IF you do happen to use a debit card (a card that's apparently not acceptable but yet magically accepted) we will take/hold/freeze/whatever terminology you want to use, this amount immediately".

On the other hand, the Q&A section states:

"On subscription, you also authorise the provider to request a €150 guarantee from your account. This amount will not be debited unless the bike is not returned after a period of 24 hours" -- were you clear on what 'guarantee' in this case means? If not, why did you proceed?

But I agree that you should not have to go looking for this in the terms of service and the website is not clear (it mentions "Please note that VISA Electron and Laser Maestro debit cards are not accepted" when it should say all debit cards are not accepted).

MagicMarker wrote: »

I don't agree that "pre-authorised" is a clear term, I assume that is what you refer to. If an amount is going to be temporarily remove from my bank balance, then I want that spelled out in plain English.

I agree that it should explained on the site in plain English how it works fully (the English site for the Paris system is even a bit clearer than Dublin's!).

But somebody else said that it's the same process for car rental etc.

MagicMarker wrote: »

Also, am I really expected to stand and read the small print at a terminal at 5.30pm on a busy street in Dublin, with 10 people queuing up behind me? (I'm not even exaggerating here, there were that many people behind me by the time I'd managed to sign up, I'd have been lynched had I taken any longer).

Agreed: If it does not already say so, the payment menu and price listing on the terminal should state that debit cards are not allowed.

carlmango11

hfallada wrote: »

I seen that too once before. It advises you to use a credit card instead of debit cards due to €150 charge

Yep, I remember I paid with a debit card once and it specifically said "don't use a debit card because the money will be taken and won't be returned X weeks" or something.

It's got to do with the way debit cards work. They are not a line of credit so if you were to actually steal the bike and Dublinbikes goes to withdraw the €150, there's no guarantee your balance will not be €0 and the charge will fail. So instead they have to freeze the money to insure the balance can't go below that.

baingal nancer

For the annual sub they have a direct debit option on there site aswell,would this also take €150 out straight away or just the €20 yearly charge.
I want to sign up but only have a debit card

BeerNut

It's just the €20 for annual subs. Mine's on a debit card.

baingal nancer

BeerNut wrote: »

It's just the €20 for annual subs. Mine's on a debit card.

Thanks, was'nt sure as the op was charged the €150 for using his debit card

BeerNut

With an annual sub they know where you live. Not so with a 3 day ticket.

bowets

I was in New York and Washington DC a few months ago and I used their bike sharing program. Over there you can buy a one day, three day, seven day and monthly pass/yearly pass.
For anything below a monthly pass you do not need to register with your address, but they will pre-authorise $150 per pass.
Which means, I bought 3 x one day passes and that means that I had a hold on my card of $450. Within a week they released it, but it seems to be common practice.