RootsIreland

montgo

Oh, no! the website has been updated, now can only search with +/- 5 yrs instead of 20 yrs, the wild card does not appear to work and you have to enter at least one first name or any combination of the child's/parents' first names to search.

Searching now is going to much more difficult.

shanew

also they added a subscription option ranging from €25 p.m. for 1 month, to €18.75 p.m. for 1 year

removing the wildcard option is going to make searches more difficult..

pinkypinky

And a subscription service!

https://rootsireland.ie/ifhf/subscribe.php

€25 for a month

T&Cs include a fair usage policy:

We have a fair usage limit for subscribers, but we deliberately set it very high (1,000 views in 1 month; 7,000 views in 6 months; 15,000 views in 12 months. If you do manage to reach the limit, you will need to wait for the next calendar month of your subscription to start searching again (when your monthly limit is automatically reset).

Credits conversion:

If you have existing credits in your account purchased in the last 12 months under our previous service of Pay Per View credits (and our previous terms and conditions) you can continue to use them to search and view records on the site until they are used up. However, the Pay Per View service is being closed down and no further purchases of credits can be made commencing 24th September, 2014.

If you wish to use the Subscription Service we will facilitate you in converting the remaining Purchased Credits in your account against the value of any of the three subscriptions offered. However, on conversion of your paid credits into a Subscription your Pay Per View free search credits will also expire.

When you choose to use your Existing Purchased Credits towards purchasing a Subscription you are accepting that your previous contract with us under the Pay Per View system is null and void. Any remaining free search credits will not be carried over to the new Subscription service. You will not be able to return to the Pay Per View service once you have used your remaining credits towards purchasing a Subscription. However, any records that you have paid to view in the previous 24 months will still be available to you to view. These records will be deleted from your account 24 months from the date that you purchased them using the Pay Per View service as per the terms and conditions that were in effect when you purchased the credits.

Once you have used your credits towards paying for a subscription of your choice you will be accepting the terms and conditions of use of the site as they relate to the Subscription Service only.

All prices quoted are in Euro (€) GBP (£) and USD.

VAT at the current Irish rate is included in the price. We only offer VAT receipts to non-EU customers on personal purchases over €150, subject to a €25 administration fee.

Ponster

That's a shame. Their search engine was one of the best things out there for Irish records. Having to enter a first name makes it difficult to the point of useless for how I used to use it.

pinkypinky

Yes, I was just checking. You should be able to search with just a surname. Since they've moved to a subscription model, what difference does it make?

Ponster

pinkypinky wrote: »

Yes, I was just checking. You should be able to search with just a surname. Since they've moved to a subscription model, what difference does it make?

I don't know but I think I might ask. It's almost like they punish people with their new model.

montgo

So does this mean that you can download as many records as you need within 1 month for 25Euros?

shanew

much easier to find possible siblings with wildcards, or even blank firstnames - not sure why they've restricted that for the subscription model as it will just make people do more searches to find the details..

pinkypinky

Ponster wrote: »

I don't know but I think I might ask. It's almost like they punish people with their new model.

I just tweeted them about it.

chrysagon

plenty of other options out there, and i have dont mine, without the use of that site.

shanew

still getting used the search validation, but it looks like any one first name will do for a search - child, father or mother

shanew

and at least you can still do a marriage check, although the 5 year window is a bit restricting sometimes

Ponster

We were perhaps spoilt with the old window without realising it.

L1011

Ponster wrote: »

We were perhaps spoilt with the old window without realising it.

Nothing on the old, or new, systems could be considered "spoilt" - it was chronically dear and still is!

montgo

The +/-5 yr window is very restrictive when you didn't even have to input any year before. Searching is going to take much longer.
I have read the Ts & Cs but still can't see how many records that you can download during the month's sub. 1000 searches seems reasonable.

MargeS

If you can pay 25e per month and get unrestricted access to transcripts/records then it is better than 5e per transcript/record. Personally, I would get more value with this model over the winter months.
But as montgo says, it's not clear if this is the case.

tonycascarino

montgo wrote: »

So does this mean that you can download as many records as you need within 1 month for 25Euros?

Good question. I would like to know the same. Anyone know please?

pinkypinky

Hmm, well, if you can do 1000 searches, you definitely can't get more than 1000 records, I presume. Would be nice to get official clarification.

MargeS

T&C's

"On completion of the registration and payment process you will have the ability to search our index and view records within the time period of your subscription only. You may use www.rootsireland.ie and its contents for your own personal, non-commercial use, i.e. to research your own family history. You cannot provide third parties with details of any of the records that you have paid to view, even if you provide them for free. Reasonable monthly limits have been set for users to allow them to access the index search and to view the details of records that relate to their family history"

My understanding from above is that, for example, you buy 1 month subscription, you have access to everything with a fair use limit of 1,000 views in 1 month.
This I presume is to limit users that might 'share' a subscription account.

shanew

"...You cannot provide third parties with details of any of the records that you have paid to view, even if you provide them for free. ...."

Since a subscription is now required and therefore all records and searches require a payment, once I use existing credits & free searches, it looks like trying to assist people will not be permitted..

Waitsian

It's a brutal company offering a pathetic service - avoid it like the plague. :mad:

pinkypinky

I think they've always had a policy of not allowing sharing material with third parties, but in practice, there's no actual way for them to stop it.

shanew

I was probably using a loophole, as my reading was since I was basing the details I gave from free searches, I was not paying for anything, so not breaking the rules, just bending them a little more than they probably foresaw.. and giving them business in the process. I should have saved a copy of the T&Cs I based this theory on

Ponster

pinkypinky wrote: »

I think they've always had a policy of not allowing sharing material with third parties, but in practice, there's no actual way for them to stop it.

To be fair there isn't a service out there that doesn't have this in their T&C's. It wouldn't be much of a business model if they didn't.

Menas

For me this move is probably good news. RI have parish records that I cant easily get elsewhere. But the frustration in the past was having to pay for many views and having a low 'hit' ratio. So viewing 5 records to find only one of them is relevant was an expensive exercise.

€25 for a month is steep for the hobbiest, but I reckon once the weather turns I will buy a months subscription and tell the wife and kids I will see them in 4 weeks.

Ponster

Trigger Happy wrote: »

€25 for a month is steep for the hobbiest

Compared to Ancestry it's WAY too expensive. Possible twice as expensive as it should be. But for a guy who's got as far as they can without paying for records and has a couple of weekends free it's worth it.

Spending €25 on the non-subscription only gets you 7 records so unlimited for a month for someone who has a lot of certs to find is a much better choice.

pinkypinky

I expect they'll see a lot of one month subscriptions and very little repeat business or annual ones.

Their terms and conditions actually would seem to preclude professional genealogists using the service, since they would be passing on findings to third parties.

Alicat

Yes, I'd be in the same boat. I haven't used it properly in years because of the cost but I would consider a month of solid work for the €25. I'd have to be in the zone though!

L1011

Alicat wrote: »

Yes, I'd be in the same boat. I haven't used it properly in years because of the cost but I would consider a month of solid work for the €25. I'd have to be in the zone though!

Get a month when you've an FMP, BNA or INA trial and pick that; multiple time limited sources certainly sharpens the mind!

Hermy

pinkypinky wrote: »

...passing on findings to third parties.

Have they any way of verifying a case where this may happen.

Ponster

Hermy wrote: »

Have they any way of verifying a case where this may happen.

Not in the least bit I'd imagine but they still have to say it.

I'd hope that a professional would be ordering the real certs rather than using transcripts.

pinkypinky

Ponster wrote: »

Not in the least bit I'd imagine but they still have to say it.

I'd hope that a professional would be ordering the real certs rather than using transcripts.

Well yes of course for civil records but for speed they might use rootsireland and then go back to parish records in the NLI for verification. I've done that.

shanew

I finally tried out the new subscription version - couple of observations :

1. the first name restriction is a annoying, especially if you are trying to find extended families
2. there should be a parish selection option once a county has been chosen, i.e. to allow selection of several adjacent parishes
3. the initial search results are too basic - these should more detail, e.g. parish on a general county search
4. some records seem to be missing denomination - e.g. several in North Co. Dublin

The restrictions just complicate the search and mean you have to try a search for each decade, each initial etc... I appreciate that unrestricted searches can result in large number of results and also load servers etc, but maybe instead of requiring a firstname and surname, maybe they could allow the surname and a least one other search parameter - e.g. surname and parish, or two surnames ?

and a wish list item - an extended search, maybe for partial address (for those records that have one), or godparent/witness names or even occupation (e.g. on those CofI or civil records that have this) ? The witness names and occupations proved very useful in providing clues to my Coastguard ancestors, and related families

that said, being able to view details without worrying about credits being used up is great, and could be a great help in building up additional detail on families, especially in the time close to the beginning of available records.

montgo

Ditto for me.
Despite the restrictions in searching and many transcription errors. it has been really worthwhile for me. It has always been on my wish list to be able to search for sponsors/witnesses!

Menas

I bit the bullet yesterday and am so happy that I did so.

I had many brick walls in the Rathcormac/Middleton areas of Cork and was able to get back a couple of generations thanks to the good parish record coverage in those areas. Been able to easily find baptisimal records for people born in the very early 1800s was a very pleasant surprise.

Looking at the monaghan/fermangh side of my family I had less success as the records there are patchy.
It really is pain having to put in a Christian name, but I found that just putting in the first letter of that name also works.
And having details of the Sponsors was a big help as they are key clues to the links between families and generations.

I will keep working on this over the coming 4 weeks and expand my search to the Leitrim side of the family, but based on the 40 or so individuals added to the Cork side of my family I am already a happy man!

owenc

I got an email from them today.

A bit confusing

owenc

Trigger Happy wrote: »

I bit the bullet yesterday and am so happy that I did so.

I had many brick walls in the Rathcormac/Middleton areas of Cork and was able to get back a couple of generations thanks to the good parish record coverage in those areas. Been able to easily find baptisimal records for people born in the very early 1800s was a very pleasant surprise.

Looking at the monaghan/fermangh side of my family I had less success as the records there are patchy.
It really is pain having to put in a Christian name, but I found that just putting in the first letter of that name also works.
And having details of the Sponsors was a big help as they are key clues to the links between families and generations.

I will keep working on this over the coming 4 weeks and expand my search to the Leitrim side of the family, but based on the 40 or so individuals added to the Cork side of my family I am already a happy man!

I agree! It is so annoying having to do that considering you don't always know.

clashburke

A slight tangent, but a few quick Q about the site.

Currently i have about a dozen cert numbers that I'm almost certain are my ancestors and I'm a bit strapped for cash.
Is there a way on Roots to find the same cert i already have and get the father/mothers names and dates from them?

Ponster

clashburke wrote: »

A slight tangent, but a few quick Q about the site.

Currently i have about a dozen cert numbers that I'm almost certain are my ancestors and I'm a bit strapped for cash.
Is there a way on Roots to find the same cert i already have and get the father/mothers names and dates from them?

What 'cert numbers' are you talking about?

My initial impression is that no, you'd have to redo the work, searching again to find each reference on RootsIreland.

clashburke

Ponster wrote: »

What 'cert numbers' are you talking about?

My initial impression is that no, you'd have to redo the work, searching again to find each reference on RootsIreland.

Sorry i mean the reference used to order the certs. I looked around the site today, i think your right, it might not be worth the hassle after all:( May hold my breath a little longer and wait to order the certs

L1011

Rootsireland only has civil certs for a very sorry time period and they don't use the GRO index references on them either

VicWynne

I can't believe that they closed the PPV service on the 24th September and they only sent me my notification mails yesterday!

Newstreet

I think I have discovered another difficulty with subscriptions to Rootsireland.

Basically, I applied for the €25 month's subscription on 5th October. Twelve days later I get an email to warn me I have used up 800 of my monthly allowance of 1000 views.

I only opened the site for three days out of those twelve, and there is no way in hell I opened a tenth of 800 records!

Thinking about it, the only way they could come to that, is by deducting me for every name that came up in searches, regardless of whether I opened the record or not.

So if I search for Mickey Murphy in Dublin ten years either side of 1820, and forty results come up, I am deducted all forty, regardless of whether I only opened two of them.

Beware.

Ponster

This sounds more like an error on their side. If you go to this address : http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/curr_searches.php you can see the searches that you have made. I tried what you said but it didn't alter the total on the My Subscription page. The sum of page views only went up when I actually viewed a cert. I wasn't able to make it change with just searches.

Elizabetha

it must be an error....I checked my subscription and it shows that I have only viewed 10 records even though it pulled up pages of records during the searches which is right so you should query it.

dido2

Same here I've viewed 210 records which I'd say is right so I'd say it's an error on your account, check what it says on My Subscription ...

Menas

I am on 852 views according to the My subscription page.
Sadly I think that is accurate....it was a quiet month at work!

CassieManson

montgo wrote: »

Ditto for me.
Despite the restrictions in searching and many transcription errors. it has been really worthwhile for me. It has always been on my wish list to be able to search for sponsors/witnesses!

I finally signed up for a one month subscription (knew it would be hugely time consuming so waited until I had some free time). I agree with most of the comments here. It is quite expensive, however I have been able to find some civil records so have saved money on sending away for BMD certs. Not sure how extensive their civil records are but I was able to locate some of my family in Galway and as the townlands are shown I can be sure the information is correct without sending away for the certs.

The 1000 views is an issue, it sounds like a lot but due to their limited search facilities you can view 20-30 items to find one correct one. On the old system you could tell which records you had previously viewed. That does not seem to be the case now so I suspect that I am being charged for multiple views of the same record.

A couple of days into my one month sub I have used nearly 300 of my views already. So not so generous really. I thought it was strange that new new system is more restrictive in searching, I guess this is the reason. Does not make sense for long term customer satisfaction though!

KildareFan

Has anyone compared the transcription of BMDs on RootsIreland with the actual record from the Civil Indexes?

The handwritten birth/death/records I've purchased from GRO can be challenging to transcribe unless you know the family, where they were from, and the likely names. Even where you see the actual handwriting, there may be mispelling/misinterpretation. For example. my great grandfather's occupation on his death record looks like "farmer" which surprised me at first, as he was a blacksmith and never had an acre in his life. I think the actually record reads "farrier" but could easily be misread as farmer.

So, I would prefer to find the Index references and pay the 4euro to GRO to get the actual record, than pay a fortune to RootsIreland to find out what they think the record says.

CassieManson

KildareFan wrote: »

Has anyone compared the transcription of BMDs on RootsIreland with the actual record from the Civil Indexes?

The handwritten birth/death/records I've purchased from GRO can be challenging to transcribe unless you know the family, where they were from, and the likely names. Even where you see the actual handwriting, there may be mispelling/misinterpretation. For example. my great grandfather's occupation on his death record looks like "farmer" which surprised me at first, as he was a blacksmith and never had an acre in his life. I think the actually record reads "farrier" but could easily be misread as farmer.

So, I would prefer to find the Index references and pay the 4euro to GRO to get the actual record, than pay a fortune to RootsIreland to find out what they think the record says.

Yes I agree the transcriptions can be a problem. I have actually sent away for a cert even though I have found the record on rootsireland. The townland is listed as "Spiddal Martin" which I am sure is not a real place. Will be interesting to see what is written on the cert. Also according to rootsireland my g-g-grandparents were married a year after their first son was born (possible I know, but unlikely I think). I have to go to the National Library I think to see microfiches of the original records, have not got around to this yet...

shanew

CassieManson wrote: »

...The townland is listed as "Spiddal Martin" which I am sure is not a real place. Will be interesting to see what is written on the cert. ....

maybe a misread for the townland of 'Spiddle Middle', 338 acres, Moycullen c. parish, Co. Galway. PLU/Registration district Galway, and sub-district probably Spiddle.