Oireachtas TV testing on Saorview

Apogee

First reported here by natashob6 and noted in the sticky above, but I think it worthy of a thread of its own nonetheless.

Currently broadcasting on Mux 1, LCN 17.

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

LCN channel 22 on Saorview now has programme info for Oirachtas TV. Looks like a deal has been agreed.

ftakeith

natashaob6 wrote: »

LCN channel 22 on Saorview now has programme info for Oirachtas TV. Looks like a deal has been agreed.

RTE and Oireachtas should have copied BBC Parliament, I sometimes watch BBC Parliament when they showed the bbctv coverage of past general elections

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

I'm pleased some agreement on carraige fees have been settled. I hope we will see more channels launch on the platform soon.

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

Now been added to the epg LCN 22 with name Oireachtas TV but still showing a test card.

The Cush

"Oireachtas TV" logo now displayed, final Dáil session before the election beginning at 14:30 today - http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/thisweek/business-2016/document2.htm

Channel schedule this week - http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/watchoireachtastv/tvschedule/#d.en.14830

I had to retune my 2008 Sony to "unhide" the channel.

formerly scottish paddy

So who blinked first?..............is OTV paying the full whack?

Oscarziggy

"Live" now .....
Regards

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

Still saying Oireachtas TV test service on the EPG. Hope it doesn't disappear again.

Atlantic Dawn

Does it really cost them €250k to broadcast on Sky?

At present UPC and Eircom transmit the Oireachtas TV channel free of charge. Sky charges a “discounted” fee of €250,000.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/saorview-seeks-525-000-to-broadcast-oireachtas-tv-channel-1.2157906

Sam Russell

So it is reported, but it is a secret deal - partly because we have open Government and it would never do if such matters got out to the general public.

Saorview have to charge the same for all broadcasters under a decision by Comreg. It is up to the Oireachtas to change the rules, which they have failed to do.

Strictly speaking, RTE own the two muxes and could, if let, charge what they like but Comreg has decided otherwise - hence only RTE can afford HD, and unused bandwidth is burned off. TV3, TG4 both have HD services which are carried on other platforms and should be made carry HD on Saorview. If they and UTVi carried their main channels in HD, their costs would not be huge as the costs would be shared.

Apogee

Availability of Oireachtas TV on Saorview mentioned during course of first political report on 6.01 News.

Harry Palmr

Looking at it now - in SD :mad:

BuzzG

Still a welcome addition all the same

STB.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Does it really cost them €250k to broadcast on Sky?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/saorview-seeks-525-000-to-broadcast-oireachtas-tv-channel-1.2157906

I hope not. I see the Clown Comhairle banging on in that article about taxpayers money and RTE having some obligation to carry Oireachtas Tv for free, which is complete nonsense. The legislation quite clearly states that the Houses of the Oireachtas are obligated to pay RTE/Saorview for carriage costs!

Meanwhile back at the ranch and according to that article, the Oireachtas are paying Sky for carriage! With taxpayers money. I hope not or there will be some explaining to do.

There is no requirement for them to be on the Sky platform, especially when they did not exist up until today on the Saorview platform. The only reason they should be on the Sky platform is if Sky requested the channel under the must offer rule, which is to satisfy platform neutrality. Now given they didn't exist on Saorview the question that needs to be asked is WHO engaged Sky to carry the Oireachtas TV channel and why!

The Cush

Oireachtas press release - http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/pressreleases/2016/name-31310-en.html

This from that press release

Oireachtas TV to be carried on Saorview

Ceann Comhairle Seán Barrett, T.D. announced that Oireachtas TV will be carried on the Saorview platform from today on a pilot basis and that, subject to the completion of certain technical and regulatory arrangements, the channel should become part of the permanent channel line up on the Saorview platform.

13th January 2016

Are we looking at a change in legislation?

AwaitYourReply

STB. wrote: »

I hope not. I see the Clown Comhairle banging on in that article about taxpayers money and RTE having some obligation to carry Oireachtas Tv for free, which is complete nonsense. The legislation quite clearly states that the Houses of the Oireachtas are obligated to pay RTE/Saorview for carriage costs!

Meanwhile back at the ranch and according to that article, the Oireachtas are paying Sky for carriage! With taxpayers money. I hope not or there will be some explaining to do.

There is no requirement for them to be on the Sky platform, especially when they did not exist up until today on the Saorview platform. The only reason they should be on the Sky platform is if Sky requested the channel under the must offer rule, which is to satisfy platform neutrality. Now given they didn't exist on Saorview the question that needs to be asked is WHO engaged Sky to carry the Oireachtas TV channel and why!

Some excellent points made there!

With General Election 2016 date about to be announced by the Taoiseach, you would have to wonder why it was left to almost 23:59 on the clock of the current Dáil to get this channel back on Saorview albeit now officially "on a pilot basis" as opposed to it's brief unofficial appearance previously.

The Cush

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

With General Election 2016 date about to be announced by the Taoiseach, you would have to wonder why it was left to almost 23:59 on the clock of the current Dáil to get this channel back on Saorview albeit now officially "on a pilot basis" as opposed to it's brief unofficial appearance previously.

According to FOI correspondence released earlier this year the previous week long test was a "short 7 day technical trial" using the Oireachtas TV feed to get a better estimate of the running bitrate usage on Saorview and from there the most likely carriage charge. They refer to running the test "in the dark" i.e. hidden, so that viewers wouldn't see the test channel while scrolling through the channels



Why are we seeing it now, my guess is this is the outcome of the Dept of Communications review of the tariff situation that's been underway since RTÉ appeared before the open Oireachtas committee last April and clarified the situation that was being put forward by the closed Houses Committee with regard to the tariff

Joint Committee on Transport and Communications last April

Senator John Whelan: I am familiar with that point. However, if it is not resolved in reasonably due course I will propose that we change the law.

Mr. Kevin Bakhurst: That is an option

---

Ms Moya Doherty: One of the first questions I asked when I took up my role as chair of RTE is why Oireachtas TV was not on SAORIVEW and I was given a paper with everything that Mr. Bakhurst has outlined. I certainly know that the board and I, as chair, very much want Oireachtas TV on SAORVIEW. I have gone back several times to the Director General on that point but it is a legislative issue and the members of the committee are the legislators.

Deputy Timmy Dooley: That is very welcome because unfortunately the communications around this House about that decision, as the Senator has outlined, have shown RTE as the baddie on this one so I welcome the fact that Mr. Bakhurst and Ms Doherty have clarified that issue.

Minister's comments in a Seanad debate last Oct

Minister for Communications, Deputy Alex White: ... There is a provision in section 130 of the Act which provides for the possibility of ministerial intervention. However, at the same time, there is a recent decision of ComReg in respect of regulating those kinds of tariffs under a European directive. There is a legal question as to the relationship between my power under the Act and that of ComReg to regulate the tariffs. I have been asked to address the issue and to intervene. I hope we will be able to resolve the matter quickly. We are taking legal advice as to whether the powers I have under the Act override the provisions that now arise in respect of the European directive or vice versa. Once we have that advice, we will be able to respond to the Senator and to the Ceann Comhairle of the other House. That is the position in relation to Saorview.

Sunday Independent article last Oct

The Sunday Independent has obtained a copy of a letter, sent by Mr Barrett to Mr White, who is under attack from his own party colleague, Senator John Whelan for allegedly "having a soft spot" for the State broadcaster.

The letter was sent by Mr Barrett on behalf of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, which he heads up as Ceann Comhairle. The commission is deeply unhappy at the lack of willingness by RTE to carry Oireachtas TV.

In his letter, Mr Barrett said the 2009 Broadcasting Act permits Mr White as minister to determine the rate, but that Mr White had not yet done so.

Mr Barrett wrote: "I would formally like to request that you exercise your authority and proceed to granting the Oireachtas Channel its reserved capacity on the Saorview network, so that it is made available to free- to-air customers."

AwaitYourReply

The Cush wrote: »

According to FOI correspondence released earlier this year the previous week long test was a "short 7 day technical trial" using the Oireachtas TV feed to get a better estimate of the running bitrate usage on Saorview and from there the most likely carriage charge. They refer to running the test "in the dark" i.e. hidden, so that viewers wouldn't see the test channel while scrolling through the channels



Why are we seeing it now, my guess is this is the outcome of the Dept of Communications review of the tariff situation that's been underway since RTÉ appeared before the open Oireachtas committee last April and clarified the situation that was being put forward by the closed Houses Committee with regard to the tariff

Joint Committee on Transport and Communications last April



Minister's comments in a Seanad debate last Oct



Sunday Independent article last Oct

Very interesting stuff indeed.

I just hope that a much more sustainable carriage charging mechanism can be put in place that makes it viable for RTÉNL/2RN and all independent commercial channel operators going forward as the current status quo (as determined by Irish legislation) has clearly restricted the launch of more new channels, some timeshift +1 hour channel versions not to mention the lack of HD channel versions outside of RTÉ One and RTÉ 2 television. The success and future of Saorview is at stake and with more & more consolidation in the digital multi-media sector. Saorview seriously needs to up it's game or else it risks being completely left behind and will ultimately fail which is not good for RTÉ or Irish broadcasting in general down the road. A shiny new Saorview logo and promotional video can only do so much with a limited number of TV/Radio channels versus much bigger offerings on other TV platforms.

Saorview can form alliances with UK DTT Freeview system, introduce new enhancements like the pause/rewind live TV facility but they also need to provide more channel services and content and soon if they want to have a digital terrestrial tv platform that can rival other digital platforms out there.

Let's hope that this whole Houses of the Oireachtas TV channel fiasco and latest plan also opens the door for other TV operators too as nobody is going to buy into a totally unsustainable proposition especially when revenue from certain sectors like advertising revenue is not guaranteed if the global economy is slowing down again!

The Cush

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

I just hope that a much more sustainable carriage charging mechanism can be put in place that makes it viable for RTÉNL/2RN and all independent commercial channel operators going forward as the current status quo (as determined by Irish legislation) has clearly restricted the launch of more new channels,

Unfortunately the overall capital and operating costs remain the same no matter which way you structure the tariff, each user pays its share of the overall costs, currently €388.47 per kbps used. If one broadcaster get a reduction the others pay more.

When RTÉ set the tariff TV3 questioned the methodology behind it but it's now regulated independently by Comreg with input from the stakeholders.

2RN are still in debt to approx. €40m from the rollout of the network.

STB.

Saorview as a platform in the current form and in the immediate term will only survive when they do what they should have done in the first instance when they realised that commercial multiplexes where not going to happen and that is invest in a Hybrid box that takes advantage of the freely available overflow channels from our nearest neighbours in the UK.

I mean its 5 years down the road. Its a free to air platform. There is another one on satellite next door with ample content. Combine both in an easy to use and non technical way, especially recording. It'll be plenty of content for those who do not want bills and a simple non tuning solution. Hopefully they don't fcuk up the 7 day epg boxes that will use the Methaphor software that will do this. Hopefully they have also been clever enough to include IPTV/Netflix options....

How many people who have been paying Sky for the basic package for years know that the majority of these channels they pay for are free ???

AwaitYourReply

STB. wrote: »

Saorview as a platform in the current form and in the immediate term will only survive when they do what they should have done in the first instance when they realised that commercial multiplexes where not going to happen and that is invest in a Hybrid box that takes advantage of the freely available overflow channels from our nearest neighbours in the UK.

I mean its 5 years down the road. Its a free to air platform. There is another one on satellite next door with ample content. Combine both in an easy to use and non technical way, especially recording. It'll be plenty of content for those who do not want bills and a simple non tuning solution. Hopefully they don't fcuk up the 7 day epg boxes that will use the Methaphor software that will do this. Hopefully they have also been clever enough to include IPTV/Netflix options....

How many people who have been paying Sky for the basic package for years know that the majority of these channels they pay for are free ???

I would agree with you 110% - they need to wake up as the Saorview DTT platform has felt like it has almost been on a life-support-machine for ages and that should not have been the case given that folk are often watching and paying for channel content that has been free for a long time now.

I decided after the initial 12months to cancel my Sky Digital subscription as far back as May 2002 and not long afterwards I obtained a Free-To-View (FTV) Card once all of the UK terrestrial stations went FTA on digital satellite (including the Sky digital EPG platform) even if a viewer was no longer paying Sky a subscription charge.

Then more channels went free to air and now you have a huge selection 100% FREE on digital satellite without the need to get SKY Digital! Those UKTV branded channels: YESTERDAY, Drama & Really which all went free-to-air in December was a cool Christmas present and let's hope that more channels like DAVE may also follow suit once it's current carriage agreement with Sky Digital expires in due course.

galtee boy

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

I would agree with you 110% - they need to wake up as the Saorview DTT platform has felt like it has almost been on a life-support-machine for ages and that should not have been the case given that folk are often watching and paying for channel content that has been free for a long time now.

I decided after the initial 12months to cancel my Sky Digital subscription as far back as May 2002 and not long afterwards I obtained a Free-To-View (FTV) Card once all of the UK terrestrial stations went FTA on digital satellite (including the Sky digital EPG platform) even if a viewer was no longer paying Sky a subscription charge.

Then more channels went free to air and now you have a huge selection 100% FREE on digital satellite without the need to get SKY Digital! Those UKTV branded channels: YESTERDAY, Drama & Really which all went free-to-air in December was a cool Christmas present and let's hope that more channels like DAVE may also follow suit once it's current carriage agreement with Sky Digital expires in due course.

What would really get Saorview off life support and have a heart beating for the first time, would be the launch of the rumoured combo box with all Saorview and UK channels, possibly Netflix, YouTube etc and including series link/recording of Saorview and UK channels and the holy grail of all channels on one 7 day EPG, but I suppose I might as well look out the window for flying pigs !

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

The Irish Times did a piece on the new Saorview website and RTE chief technology director Richard Warhag said that RTE 2rn are in conversation with other broadcasters abot bringing their channels to the Saorview platform and would hope to have more news on this later on in the year. So it will be interesting to see what comes out of these conversations.

Mr Sea Wolf

natashaob6 wrote: »

The Irish Times did a piece on the new Saorview website and RTE chief technology director Richard Warhag said that RTE 2rn are in conversation with other broadcasters abot bringing their channels to the Saorview platform and would hope to have more news on this later on in the year. So it will be interesting to see what comes out of these conversations.

They have been saying that garbage for years, it ain't gonna happen.

The Cush

From today's Sunday Times, the Oireachtas channel Saorview transmission costing in the “order of €250,000” p.a.

THE decision to allow the Oireachtas television channel to be screened on Saorview was taken after RTE cut the price from €900,000, the market rate for hosting a channel on the service, to about €250,000.

The Oireachtas had been in negotiations with RTE, which operates the Saorview service, for a number of years. It argued that the transmission of proceedings from the Dail, Seanad and Oireachtas committees would be a public service, and so the normal commercial fee should be reduced or waived.

The channel is already carried on most commercial broadcasters, including Sky, Virgin Media and Eir.

Last week, the service was added to Saorview on a pilot basis, with both the Oireachtas and RTE hoping the arrangement would become permanent.

A spokeswoman for the Oireachtas said that the anticipated full-year costs of broadcasting on Saorview are “of the order of €250,000”. She described this as a “reasonable payment”

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1657108.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2016_01_16

STB.

Well done the Houses of the Oireachtas! Talk about making things complicated. They dont seem to have a problem paying the €3m a year contract that it takes to produce Oireachtas TV, but dont want to pay the going cost for being broadcast. This is an example of its not coming out of my budget mentality.

Predictably there will be court cases now from the other users of the network who quite rightly have reason to be peeved. Who will be left to pay these costs and the money withheld from 2RN ??? TG4 are seperate from RTE. They are paying their way aren't they ?

brick man

STB. wrote:

Predictably there will be court cases now from the other users of the network who quite rightly have reason to be peeved. Who will be left to pay these costs and the money withheld from 2RN ??? TG4 are seperate from RTE. They are paying their way aren't they ?

TG4 get share of licence fee and money from government + hour of free programming from RTE . all of that is a lot of money but they do pay the transmission fee

Sam Russell

TV3 pay their share of transmission charges - on the steps of the court.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

TV3 pay their share of transmission charges - on the steps of the court.

Before they got to the steps of the court last time, so that it didn't cause any problems with the Liberty Global deal.

Carawaystick

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/watchoireachtastv/
saying it's on Saorview Ch22

Carawaystick

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/watchoireachtastv/
saying it's on Saorview Ch22

Sam Russell

Placed 4 out of 5 platforms - says a lot of what they think of Saorview. The fifth one has not been launched a wet week yet.

FRIENDO

Sam Russell wrote: »

Placed 4 out of 5 platforms - says a lot of what they think of Saorview. The fifth one has not been launched a wet week yet.

Add your reply here.

Typical of this Banana Republic,
Oireachtas TV naming (promoting) the foreign and private owned pay per view providers first.

Rather than naming the platform which is Free to Air and fully owned by the People of the State.

Sam Russell

And it is only testing on Saorview, remember. Why do we put up with these *****s?

FRIENDO

And what's the point of the Fat Cats in Oireachtas TV given the satellite frequency for Sky users on their Web page?
Aren't all sky boxes self tuning anyway!

That's the thing. Although Saorview should be the primary service for Irish TV, the reality is that Virgin is the de facto standard with Sky being second and Saorview behind them both. It shouldn't be that way.

Carawaystick

my receiver is saying the aspect ratio is 16:9 but the width is 544 while the height is 576

the beeb's parliament channel is W 720; H 576; aspect ratio 16:9

Carawaystick

my receiver is saying the aspect ratio is 16:9 but the width is 544 while the height is 576

the beeb's parliament channel is W 720; H 576; aspect ratio 16:9

The Cush

Carawaystick wrote: »

my receiver is saying the aspect ratio is 16:9 but the width is 544 while the height is 576

the beeb's parliament channel is W 720; H 576; aspect ratio 16:9

Aspect Ratio vs. Resolution

Aspect ratio is the ratio of screen height to width while resolution is the actual number of pixels of colour each direction. The higher the resolution the better the picture, 720x576 is better than 544x576

eirman

I thought this had been sorted and it had gone beyond testing.
None of today's Dail antics were broadcast.

Gerry Wicklow

eirman wrote: »

I thought this had been sorted and it had gone beyond testing.
None of today's Dail antics were broadcast.

It WAS on Sky but not available to us ordinary licence payers:mad:

The Cush

Still in a testing phase on Saorview

https://twitter.com/OireachtasNews/status/712251159461892096

mackersdublin

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/watchoireachtastv/tvschedule/

Oireachtas TV guide on their website mentions 6th April too

Sam Russell

mackersdublin wrote: »

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/watchoireachtastv/tvschedule/

Oireachtas TV guide on their website mentions 6th April too

But is that the OTV on Saorview or the one behind the paywall?

lertsnim

They said on Twitter that it should be back on Saorview on the 6th. See post #43

JamesyBelfast

Saw it broadcasting again last night on Saorview.

Also Channel 813 was once again showing a looped HD video (had been back on test card for the last few weeks or so).

The Cush

JamesyBelfast wrote: »

Saw it broadcasting again last night on Saorview.

Also Channel 813 was once again showing a looped HD video (had been back on test card for the last few weeks or so).

813 is an LCN allocated on a a UK setup TV, I assume it was on Saorview LCN 12 or 14?

Also saw the OTV archive video last night, back on air just now.

JamesyBelfast

The Cush wrote: »

813 is an LCN allocated on a a UK setup TV, I assume it was on Saorview LCN 12 or 14?

Yeah - the channel that everyone was saying a while back was earmarked possibly for TG4-HD - it is indeed 813 on my UK TV.

Have been keeping an eye on it since speculation started about TG4-HD and as was reported on here - it reverted to a test card there for the last month at least. Last night it was showing HD video again - without the RTENL watermark that had been added last time it was showing video.

The Cush

JamesyBelfast wrote: »

Yeah - the channel that everyone was saying a while back was earmarked possibly for TG4-HD - it is indeed 813 on my UK TV.

The video loop is back now on LCN 14.

mackersdublin

Any idea of when LCN 22 will actually launch

The label had been removed and now it's an Irish title