Newstalk host moncrieff compares Northern Catholics to ISIS

.jacksparrow.

Anyone hear this yesterday?

He was on about ISIS then came out with not all Muslims should be blamed just the same way that Irish Catholics shouldn't be ashamed of what "Northern Catholics" did during the conflict in the north.

Conveniently it is now edited out of the archive on news talk website.

Anyone else hear it?

Nodin

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Anyone hear this yesterday?

He was on about ISIS then came out with not all Muslims should be blamed just the same way that Irish Catholics shouldn't be ashamed of what "Northern Catholics" did during the conflict in the north.

Conveniently it is now edited out of the archive on news talk website.

Anyone else hear it?

That doesn't sound like comparing northern catholics to ISIS, tbh.

conorh91

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Anyone hear this yesterday?

He was on about ISIS then came out with not all Muslims should be blamed just the same way that Irish Catholics shouldn't be ashamed of what "Northern Catholics" did during the conflict in the north.

Conveniently it is now edited out of the archive on news talk website.

Anyone else hear it?

I just can't listen to him. Why does his voice always sound like he's making a double chin? Add sarcasm and condescension and you finally have a good reason to go back to RTÉ.

gandalf

Hmm talk show host says something "controversial" shock!!!

comongethappy

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Sean probably doesn't think Catholics in NI are like ISIS.

Those Mennonites though...... Different story.

Menas

I heard it and his comparison was fair IMO.

ISIS do not represent ALL middle eastern muslims.
Northern Catholics who commited atrocities up north do not represent all Irish catholics.

conorh91

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Northern Catholics who commited atrocities up north do not represent all Irish catholics.

They weren't doing it in the context of being Catholics and given the character of the SF party, many Shinners would reject any Catholic label.

Whereas IS are a group effectively pursuing jihad in the form of religious war

Buona Fortuna

Trigger Happy wrote: »

I heard it and his comparison was fair IMO.

ISIS do not represent ALL middle eastern muslims.
Northern Catholics who commited atrocities up north do not represent all Irish catholics.

That's the way I heard it too.

I imagine its an analagy that he wished he hadn't started because its very easily misconstrued.

pickarooney

comongethappy wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Sean probably doesn't think Catholics in NI are like ISIS.

Those Mennonites though...... Different story.

Those Men, those Mennonites... they roam around the forest looking for fiiiights!

DEFTLEFTHAND

Northern Christians who committed atrocities do not represent all Christians.

Annasopra

conorh91 wrote: »

They weren't doing it in the context of being Catholics and given the character of the SF party, many Shinners would reject any Catholic label.

Whereas IS are a group effectively pursuing jihad in the form of religious war

IS do not represent all Muslims

biko

I guess it's not hard to make that connection if you feel like being shocked and outraged.

grew_tall

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

That's the way I heard it too.

I imagine its an analagy that he wished he hadn't started because its very easily misconstrued.

yes but there is no real consequence for slagging catholicism

anti catholicism is the only remaining respectable form of prejudice amongst the liberal intellegensia

anncoates

The nadir of republican tub thumping has been reached.

Well, for now anyway.

conorh91

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

IS do not represent all Muslims

I'm not sure what that has to do with my point.

IS is grounding its belligerence on a specific set of religious beliefs. Whether or not they represent Muslims, they themselves ground their claims on them being Muslims. The Shinners weren't grounding their claims on them being (presumed) Catholics, and they would typically reject the notion of any religious affiliation.

So Moncrieff's use of the word 'Catholics' was silly and inappropriate.

CrabRevolution

Would probably have been more accurate to say "The IRA don't represent all republicans". Seeing as A. He makes it sound like all Catholics in the north were committing terrible acts and B. He makes it sound like these acts were done in the name of Catholicism, which they certainly were not.

RDM_83 again

He always struck me as one of those people thats more concerned with seeming smart than being thoughtful (actually I thought he sounded like a clueless tw@t but its nice to have an opinion confirmed).
He's the typical INN flunky dressed up in faux liberal intellectual clothing.
If you have ever wondered why there is a level of disdain for "free staters" among a section of the nationalist community its because of years of this sort of attitude.

grew_tall

conorh91 wrote: »

I'm not sure what that has to do with my point.

IS is grounding its belligerence on a specific set of religious beliefs. Whether or not they represent Muslims, they themselves ground their claims on them being Muslims. The Shinners weren't grounding their claims on them being (presumed) Catholics, and they would typically reject the notion of any religious affiliation.

So Moncrieff's use of the word 'Catholics' was silly and inappropriate.

its a trite analogy which is used to try and deflect negative attention away from islamic culture

" look over there , sure catholics were no different to muslims in 1999 etc "

Karl Stein

I like Moncrieff. He's sharp and can be quite funny.

Waitsian

RDM_83 again wrote: »

If you have ever wondered why there is a level of disdain for "free staters" among a section of the nationalist community its because of years of this sort of attitude.

I could give you many more!

Aongus Von Bismarck

Disgraceful.

IS may be bad but comparing them to Northies is unfair and insulting.

P_1

Perhaps an analogy that he shouldn't have made once the intellect of the average listener is factored into the equation.

Diabhal Beag

Worst thing ISIS did so far was close OP's account.

Sunnyisland

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Worst thing ISIS did so far was close OP's account.

Wonder why he did that ? Do you think the Isisies were on to him ...

Sand

conorh91 wrote: »

I'm not sure what that has to do with my point.

IS is grounding its belligerence on a specific set of religious beliefs. Whether or not they represent Muslims, they themselves ground their claims on them being Muslims. The Shinners weren't grounding their claims on them being (presumed) Catholics, and they would typically reject the notion of any religious affiliation.

So Moncrieff's use of the word 'Catholics' was silly and inappropriate.

I don't think it makes any difference to the intent of Moncrieffs (very simple) point.

Some members of X group do Y. That does not mean all members of X group do Y. Insert whatever terms seem most appropriate to you. Arguing over if X is appropriate to use is missing the point Moncrieff was making about Muslims and ISIS.

Karl Stein

realies wrote: »

Wonder why he did that ?

I'd say he lost the head.





/runs away

ThisRegard

Trigger Happy wrote: »

I heard it and his comparison was fair IMO.

ISIS do not represent ALL middle eastern muslims.
Northern Catholics who commited atrocities up north do not represent all Irish catholics.

That's exactly the point he was making. How it was misunderstood for anything else I don't know.

Shakespeare's Sister

grew_tall wrote: »

yes but there is no real consequence for slagging catholicism

anti catholicism is the only remaining respectable form of prejudice amongst the liberal intellegensia

Shur when you re-reg it'll be another group that "is the only remaining respectable form of prejudice amongst the liberal intelligentsia".

conorh91 wrote: »

I'm not sure what that has to do with my point.

IS is grounding its belligerence on a specific set of religious beliefs. Whether or not they represent Muslims, they themselves ground their claims on them being Muslims. The Shinners weren't grounding their claims on them being (presumed) Catholics, and they would typically reject the notion of any religious affiliation.

So Moncrieff's use of the word 'Catholics' was silly and inappropriate.

But he just meant the majority of republican hardliners are catholic, which is true. Even if religion was ultimately just an identifier for the two broad communities in the North, it still came into the conflict in that nationalist/republican pretty much always meant catholic, and unionist/loyalist pretty much always meant protestant. For some loyalists, religion actually did come into it (e.g. Paisley) and sectarianism was an integral part of the conflict.

0byme75341jo28

How did the OP get over 5000 posts and only 42 page visits, most of which were mods?

conorh91

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

But he just meant the majority of republican hardliners are catholic, which is true.

They're also probably heterosexual.

If Moncrieff said "Irish heterosexuals should't be ashamed of what Northern heterosexuals did during the conflict in the North", that would suggest a bizarre and inadequate understanding of the Troubles.

It's true, of course, but it's just a stupid formulation.

The IRA never claimed to represent Catholics or Catholicism, no more than they represented heterosexuals, nor pale people, nor lovers of Taytos.

Religion was incidental to their political claims.

Buona Fortuna

Karl Stein wrote: »

I like Moncrieff. He's sharp and can be quite funny.

Me too. I like talk instead of music and the thought of listening to that other cnut. Da ting isssss Joe .....

Shakespeare's Sister

conorh91 wrote: »

They're also probably heterosexual.

If Moncrieff said "Irish heterosexuals should't be ashamed of what Northern heterosexuals did during the conflict in the North", that would suggest a bizarre and inadequate understanding of the Troubles.

You know that their catholicism had more of a bearing than that as part of their identity, as I outlined further on in my post.

conorh91

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

You know that their catholicism had more of a bearing than that as part of their identity

No it didn't. Catholicism has nothing to do with the IRA; those people and their former political wing in Sinn Féin utterly reject Roman Catholic social teaching, moreso than any other significant political group in these islands.

It's a stupid conflation.

Right Turn Clyde

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Me too. I like talk instead of music and the thought of listening to that other cnut. Da ting isssss Joe .....

I don't like Joe Duffy either, but isn't it great that those types of accents have an outlet (of sorts) on RTE, because they are deliberately under-presented on television, unless they're comedians.

Shakespeare's Sister

conorh91 wrote: »

No it didn't. Catholicism has nothing to do with the IRA; those people and their former political wing in Sinn Féin utterly reject Roman Catholic social teaching, moreso than any other significant political group in these islands.

It's a stupid conflation.

Well aspects of the conflict have often been described as "sectarian" - so it's completely dishonest to state religion didn't come into it.

The_Valeyard

Rebekah Lively Eyeliner wrote: »

How did the OP get over 5000 posts and only 42 page visits, most of which were mods?

And now the account is closed???

Buona Fortuna

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

I don't like Joe Duffy either, but isn't it great that those types of accents have an outlet (of sorts) on RTE, because they are deliberately under-presented on television, unless they're comedians.

I thought they were comedians

evolving_doors

conorh91 wrote: »

No it didn't. Catholicism has nothing to do with the IRA; those people and their former political wing in Sinn Féin utterly reject Roman Catholic social teaching, moreso than any other significant political group in these islands.

It's a stupid conflation.

well as regards catholicism and IRA being mutually exclusive ...its not such a good idea at your first IRA meeting to say you have to leave early to catch Songs of Praise on the telly!

Anyhow I think the OP is missing the general thrust of his point altogether.

conorh91

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Well aspects of the conflict have often been described as "sectarian" - so it's completely dishonest to state religion didn't come into it.

Sectarian does not necessarily denote religious conflict; it includes conflicts of political affiliation.

moxin

It was a conflict about national identity, not religion. Religion was used as a battering ram by Paisleyites.

ThisRegard

Random people were killed by the IRA because they were Protestant. Random people were killed by unionist groups because they were Catholics. Few were asked their political affiliations before hand.

It was a conflict based very much across religious divides.

Billy86

moxin wrote: »

It was a conflict about national identity, not religion. Religion was used as a battering ram by Paisleyites.

And fair play to everyone on the Republican side for taking the higher ground by not ever bringing religion into the conflict.

Colinf1212

There were/are no members of the IRA from the South who helped commit such atrocities I assume?

Sweep it under the rug.

Colinf1212

ThisRegard wrote: »

Random people were killed by the IRA because they were Protestant. Random people were killed by unionist groups because they were Catholics. Few were asked their political affiliations before hand.

It was a conflict based very much across religious divides.

You make it seem like the amount of civilian killings based on religion were equally/almost equally spread.

Annasopra

conorh91 wrote: »

No it didn't. Catholicism has nothing to do with the IRA; those people and their former political wing in Sinn Féin utterly reject Roman Catholic social teaching, moreso than any other significant political group in these islands.

It's a stupid conflation.

Its not really - Martin McGuinness is very Catholic and consistently opposed abortion liberalisation in the North.

conorh91

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its not really - Martin McGuinness is very Catholic and consistently opposed abortion liberalisation in the North.

yeah, I said SF, not McGuinness.

I have absolutely no time for either the man or the party, but even i can see they're not representing Catholicism in any way; it's difficult to find a mainstream party whose values are more at odds with Catholicism and Catholic ethics.

I'm saying that as much as a defence of Catholics than I am as a defence of SF.

ThisRegard

Colinf1212 wrote: »

You make it seem like the amount of civilian killings based on religion were equally/almost equally spread.

In struggling to see what your point is? People were killed based on religious belief, don't see how you're getting statistics and figures based on a very simple paragraph.

Colinf1212

ThisRegard wrote: »

In struggling to see what your point is? People were killed based on religious belief, don't see how you're getting statistics and figures based on a very simple paragraph.

Yeah on reading back that's true. Just tired of people from the Republic trying to make out both sides are as bad as each other looking from down below. Would love some civilian murder statistics.

Since you're from Dublin, can I ask you a question I don't understand about the OP? Why does he say "Northern Catholics"? Do people from the Republic think they didn't take part in any of the atrocities? Or still do have links with dissidents?

Just a question.

I believe you people did/do, and I've met many Loyalists/Unionists who have feel the same. Something we both can agree on for once.

Colinf1212

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its not really - Martin McGuinness is very Catholic and consistently opposed abortion liberalisation in the North.

I oppose surgical abortion liberalisation in the North too. Not Catholic or religious. Hitchens was an antitheist and thought the same.

Weird how a party that is mainly Catholic would constantly try and push for gay marriage. Just baffling.

Nodin

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its not really - Martin McGuinness is very Catholic and consistently opposed abortion liberalisation in the North.

Yet he and the party support gay marriage.

Karl Stein

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Yeah on reading back that's true. Just tired of people from the Republic trying to make out both sides are as bad as each other looking from down below. Would love some civilian murder statistics.

It's a myth perpetuated by the mainstream media.

Of Loyalists' killings 85% were Catholic civilians. Only 4% of their killings were Republicans.

Of PIRA killings ~77% were BA/RUC/UDR.