Email from ASTI....

teach432

Does the email from the ASTI this evening re part-time teachers mean what I think it means?

CID after 2 years??

markjh

Looks like it alright. I'm in TUI so no such e-mail but I have read statements released by both ASTI and TUI and this is what it looks like!
It does mention conditions but I wonder are the conditions the same ones that were in place anyway for CIDs prior to this?

dory

Bit about career break will be a big change. That's it's the teacher on career break who may be redeployed, not the sub.

unknowngirl!!

Wow! Did not see that coming. Great news

km79

read all it says........such as after year one your job MUST readvertised and interviewed for........such as principals having much more powers of redeployment.......read it all not just the headline grabber
as with ALL the asti "deals" the devil is in the detail.
people are only now seeing the effects of the reduced sick
leave WE voted for.
people bitching and moaning all week. we voted for it......or did not vote in many cases.
the timing of this announcement is also very very cynical.......ballot on the way.......the asti seem happy with it though......and so the softening up process begins/continues
anyway everyone should read it all before telling everyone the great news

endakenny

km79 wrote: »

read all it says........such as after year one your job MUST readvertised and interviewed for........such as principals having much more powers of redeployment.......read it all not just the headline grabber
as with ALL the asti "deals" the devil is in the detail.
people are only now seeing the effects of the reduced sick
leave WE voted for.
people bitching and moaning all week. we voted for it......or did not vote in many cases.
the timing of this announcement is also very very cynical.......ballot on the way.......the asti seem happy with it though......and so the softening up process begins/continues
anyway everyone should read it all before telling everyone the great news

I don't see how that it would affect the ballot on including the power to strike as part of the industrial action against the JCSA. Even if some teachers don't know all the details of the JCSA, the question for them is simple: Are they willing to assess their students?

happywithlife

teach432 wrote: »

Does the email from the ASTI this evening re part-time teachers mean what I think it means?

CID after 2 years??

Think so

happywithlife

dory wrote: »

Bit about career break will be a big change. That's it's the teacher on career break who may be redeployed, not the sub.

I thought that too on the initial reading but on reading it again it's the teacher who "provided the cover" ie the sub is put on the redeployment panel

Or so I understand it

happywithlife

km79 wrote: »

read all it says........such as after year one your job MUST readvertised and interviewed for........such as principals having much more powers of redeployment.......read it all not just the headline grabber
as with ALL the asti "deals" the devil is in the detail.
people are only now seeing the effects of the reduced sick
leave WE voted for.
people bitching and moaning all week. we voted for it......or did not vote in many cases.
the timing of this announcement is also very very cynical.......ballot on the way.......the asti seem happy with it though......and so the softening up process begins/continues
anyway everyone should read it all before telling everyone the great news

Yeah I am a bit iffy about posts being re advertised yearly - we have enough of that kinda s**te anyway of going to interviews that are "already gone"

Bobsammy

I'm reading on the TUI website the key recommendations and I really don't think it's as good news as the headlines suggest. See here

So at the moment I am on a contract for 22 hours in a growing school and was delighted with myself. Having had maternity covers and other bits and pieces in previous years I thought this was my big break. However if I'm reading this correctly these hours will now be re-advertised next summer and I will have to interview again to remain in the school. Not good news from where I'm sitting.

Pwpane

km79 wrote: »

read all it says........such as after year one your job MUST readvertised and interviewed for........such as principals having much more powers of redeployment.......read it all not just the headline grabber
as with ALL the asti "deals" the devil is in the detail.
people are only now seeing the effects of the reduced sick
leave WE voted for.
people bitching and moaning all week. we voted for it......or did not vote in many cases.
the timing of this announcement is also very very cynical.......ballot on the way.......the asti seem happy with it though......and so the softening up process begins/continues
anyway everyone should read it all before telling everyone the great news

Some dicey points there alright. I'd need to read it a couple of times.

People on career break and secondment get put on the redeployment panel when they come back??

Good for the part time teacher who replaces you - but it makes taking a career break a lottery with your future.

markjh

In that summary of recommendations linked above, does anyone think there is a contradiction between points 6 and 10... Point 6 seems to say that the teacher covering the career break (part-time) is placed on the redeployment panel.
But point 10 seems to say the opposite... that it's the teacher who took the career break (the permanent teacher) who is placed on the redeployment panel?

km79

Pwpane wrote: »

Some dicey points there alright. I'd need to read it a couple of times.

People on career break and secondment get put on the redeployment panel when they come back??

Good for the part time teacher who replaces you - but it makes taking a career break a lottery with your future.

Yeah it sure does.
But do you what it's these people that won't read it cos they think it won't affect them. They will take career break. Come back and be told they are on redeployment list and then start bitchin and moaning!
Just like the sick leave.
All week I'm hearing how unfair and inequitable it is.
I voted no in very ballot. I read up and educated myself on the changes it would mean. I was very unhappy we accepted the last few "deals" . I did not just look at the bits that affected me and say you know what that's not too bad at least my pay won't be cut .
We are only starting to see the real details emerging.....

rainbowtrout

markjh wrote: »

In that summary of recommendations linked above, does anyone think there is a contradiction between points 6 and 10... Point 6 seems to say that the teacher covering the career break (part-time) is placed on the redeployment panel.
But point 10 seems to say the opposite... that it's the teacher who took the career break (the permanent teacher) who is placed on the redeployment panel?

No it doesn't.

Point 6 says that currently the teacher covering the career break should not be disqualified from elibigibility for a CID due to the hours being a career break and also that they be put on the redeployment panel when the other teacher has come back off career break.

Point 10 says that for implementation in the medium to long term future that a teacher that goes on career break , would be the one to go on the panel if they have been on career break for a determined number of years.

So No. 10 isn't set in stone yet, it will have to be decided how long they are on break before they would be put on the panel. I imagine it'll be more than 2 years anyway.

I'm not sure I agree with the point though.

2011abc

I would imagine this 'readvertising' element will see many a (RELATIVELY secure) NQT lose their current job to one of the glut of highly qualified unemployed teachers.The last few twelve month plus contracts in our place have gone to folks with Masters only .Seems to be an improvement on status quo but the devil is in the detail .

Principal's pets will thrive under this new regime while those who make any kind of stand on principle will be denied a CID or retained grudgingly on the minimum hours .

Moody_mona

The readvertising of posts is going to lead to so much more frustration about jobs being gone but going through the motions for the sake. Also makes the first year in the school a very long interview for whoever is temporary.

km79

Moody_mona wrote: »

The readvertising of posts is going to lead to so much more frustration about jobs being gone but going through the motions for the sake. Also makes the first year in the school a very long interview for whoever is temporary.

seems that this is going to suit management more than teachers so. the redeployment as well. and the s and s........separate unions needed

mirrorwall14

Not a single recommendation regarding the splitting of contracts. We worked out this summer that half our staff are on less than full hours... The most recent job that came up in the school was split in three!!

Mardy Bum

If these recommendations are coming into effect in September 2015 would that mean a teacher currently in their first year of an RPT still has to wait three years regardless?

vamos!

Thought I posted earlier. Don't seem to have email from asti. G am in my year 3 in same school. Not covering anybody. Am I now eligible for cid? Do I need to speak to principal or will it be done automatically?

mirrorwall14

Point 6 is gonna cause all kinds of problems in my school as the secondment hours have been used to keep CIDs under 18hrs....

mirrorwall14

vamos! wrote: »

Thought I posted earlier. Don't seem to have email from asti. G am in my year 3 in same school. Not covering anybody. Am I now eligible for cid? Do I need to speak to principal or will it be done automatically?

I don't think it has all been implemented yet and there is no word on what happens with people currently in contracts. With point 6 I would be entitled to a full CID as opposed to part time. The balance of my contracts have been secondment hours for the last three years so they would now be CID'able

Terri26

I agree in theory it sounds good at first bite. But what about teachers on the subbing circuit. What about teachers covering maternity/sick leave? I think we still need a panel. Check out ASTI Fightbacks Facebook post.

Peter Flynt

CID after two years is worthless if there are no extra hours in the system.

The "mandatory re-advertising" of the job after one year is the ultimate get out clause for management.

As usual - Absolutely nothing delivered by the unions.

amacca

Peter Flynt wrote: »

CID after two years is worthless if there are no extra hours in the system.

The "mandatory re-advertising" of the job after one year is the ultimate get out clause for management.

As usual - Absolutely nothing delivered by the unions.

I agree…..bit by bit they are pulling the rug out from under the profession.

That is if they are not already standing on bare floor.

Funny thing is it will ultimately affect the standard of education … the thing they are supposed to be improving.

Peter Flynt

amacca wrote: »

I agree…..bit by bit they are pulling the rug out from under the profession.

That is if they are not already standing on bare floor.

Funny thing is it will ultimately affect the standard of education … the thing they are supposed to be improving.

The ASTI and the TUI have little interest in the well being of those who pay their wages - the teacher.

This report is an insult to the temporary teacher.

There will be people leaving CIDs with so few hours on them. . . to take up temporary jobs.

The rug has long since been pulled from under the feet of the "profession" - calling teaching a "profession" is no longer viable in Ireland with these ongoing cuts.

Really looking forward to union capitulation on the JCSA.

endakenny

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Really looking forward to union capitulation on the JCSA.

Even if some teachers are not clued in about the JCSA, the following question should make it easy for them to understand:

Are you willing to assess your students? Yes or No.

Do they not know the extra workload that they'll be inviting if their answer to the above question is Yes?

km79

endakenny wrote: »

Even if some teachers are not clued in about the JCSA, the following question should make it easy for them to understand:

Are you willing to assess your students? Yes or No.

Do they not know the extra workload that they'll be inviting if their answer to the above question is Yes?

I assume he meant the capitulation from the union leadership first.
its already happening. the timing of this new news...... the way its being spun...softening up

endakenny

km79 wrote: »

I assume he meant the capitulation from the union leadership first.
its already happening. the timing of this new news...... the way its being spun...softening up

If permanent teachers constitute the majority of the membership of the ASTI then I don't see how the press release about contracts of indefinite duration would change their opinion about the JCSA.

The question still stands: Are they willing to assess their students?

Besides, is it not the case that many newly-qualified teachers would prefer to work in Dubai or Australia anyway, given the better weather and better working conditions that are associated with teaching in those places?

Peter Flynt

endakenny wrote: »

If permanent teachers constitute the majority of the membership of the ASTI then I don't see how the press release about contracts of indefinite duration would change their opinion about the JCSA.

The question still stands: Are they willing to assess their students?

Besides, is it not the case that many newly-qualified teachers would prefer to work in Dubai or Australia anyway, given the better weather and better working conditions that are associated with teaching in those places?

They weren't willing to do Haddington Road - So new ballots and threats alongside a media campaign of intimidation (especially Independent Newspapers & RTE) forced teachers to change their decision.

Teachers are weak and compliant - The DES and their unions know this.

We'll be doing the JCSA and marking our own students

km79

Peter Flynt wrote: »

They weren't willing to do Haddington Road - So new ballots and threats alongside a media campaign of intimidation (especially Independent Newspapers & RTE) forced teachers to change their decision.

Teachers are weak and compliant - The DES and their unions know this.

We'll be doing the JCSA and marking our own students

peter I used to find myself agreeing with a bit of what you said
now I agree with it all !

endakenny

Peter Flynt wrote: »

They weren't willing to do Haddington Road - So new ballots and threats alongside a media campaign of intimidation (especially Independent Newspapers & RTE) forced teachers to change their decision.

Teachers are weak and compliant - The DES and their unions know this.

We'll be doing the JCSA and marking our own students

Haddington Road didn't affect the exam system; it's not the same thing.

sitstill

Does anyone have an update on this? 3 months have passed and still no circular to make it all nice and official. Could they delay the implementation beyond next September? :-/

duffyp

I rang ASTI about this before Christmas, it has been agreed and will go through in September 2015, circular should be out by Feb.

man_no_plan

Draft circular is out.

From memory...
Reinterview after year one, cid after year two. If hours drop you're up for redeployment.

I'm not certain that this will improve things dramatically in the long term. You could find yourself bring shunted all over the place.

The tui lost a transfer case on first in first out rules abut two years ago...

I'm not sure if the cid at the end of year tw has to be for the hours worked that year or the hours available in the following year.

Hours worked for career break / jobshare can count also afaik but you'll be on the road with your cid to another school when the post holder returns.

rainbowtrout

man_no_plan wrote: »

Draft circular is out.

From memory...
Reinterview after year one, cid after year two. If hours drop you're up for redeployment.

I'm not certain that this will improve things dramatically in the long term. You could find yourself bring shunted all over the place.

The tui lost a transfer case on first in first out rules abut two years ago...

I'm not sure if the cid at the end of year tw has to be for the hours worked that year or the hours available in the following year.

Hours worked for career break / jobshare can count also afaik but you'll be on the road with your cid to another school when the post holder returns.

Wasn't there something in the recommendations that the permanent teacher that was on career break could be the one that was redeployed? It wasn't recommended how long they would have to be on career break for that to happen.

petejmk

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Wasn't there something in the recommendations that the permanent teacher that was on career break could be the one that was redeployed? It wasn't recommended how long they would have to be on career break for that to happen.

There was but at the ASTI information meeting in October Pat King said that it won't be introduced in the short to medium term. Even at that. He gave no indication on the number of years a teacher would have to be covering career break/secondment before it is the person on leave who will be redeployed.

man_no_plan

petejmk wrote: »

There was but at the ASTI information meeting in October Pat King said that it won't be introduced in the short to medium term. Even at that. He gave no indication on the number of years a teacher would have to be covering career break/secondment before it is the person on leave who will be redeployed.

It is in the ward report alright. There is a set of recommendations for immediate introduction and a set for longer-term introduction.

In our etb career breaks always have the caveat about transfers on the if the post disappeared while on leave, never heard of it happening. Would be a big upset though.

teach432

duffyp wrote: »

I rang ASTI about this before Christmas, it has been agreed and will go through in September 2015, circular should be out by Feb.

That's good to hear.

mtoutlemonde

man_no_plan wrote: »

Draft circular is out.

From memory...
Reinterview after year one, cid after year two. If hours drop you're up for redeployment.

Could this really happen? I don't think principals would be too happy to have to advertise for a post and then do it again the following year. It would make the interview process a joke because obviously if a person who was appointed in year one did a good job, I'm sure the principal would want that person to remain in the position. I suppose there would be an advantage that if the person appointed in year one wasn't the best candidate after all, the principal has a way to get rid of them.

man_no_plan

Read the Ward Report, -It's all in there!

It would be a pain in the ass having to re interview good people and there would end up being a lot of sham interviews if you wanted to be fair to a teacher who has done a good year in a school. On the other hand, some would say all interviews are shams anyway!!

sitstill

Anyone got a further update on this? They had said that the circular would be out in Feb.

duffyp

I've emailed and rung the asti, they are very hesitant to put anything in an email and seem to only want to discuss it on the phone (which to me doesn't sound good). Keep missing their return phone calls as they ring during school hours. I'm losing hope on this one.

sitstill

duffyp wrote: »

I've emailed and rung the asti, they are very hesitant to put anything in an email and seem to only want to discuss it on the phone (which to me doesn't sound good). Keep missing their return phone calls as they ring during school hours. I'm losing hope on this one.

Feeling the same myself. I emailed the ASTI at the start of Feb and they said the Circular was due within 2 weeks but that obviously hasn't happened.

duffyp

sitstill wrote: »

Feeling the same myself. I emailed the ASTI at the start of Feb and they said the Circular was due within 2 weeks but that obviously hasn't happened.

So much for representing junior teachers:( they seemed more concerned about grace periods for retirees.

sitstill

duffyp wrote: »

So much for representing junior teachers:( they seemed more concerned about grace periods for retirees.

Yeah. Teaching 8 years now, I don't feel like a junior teacher 😒

duffyp

sitstill wrote: »

Yeah. Teaching 8 years now, I don't feel like a junior teacher 😒

5 years here and over 30. Just want to get a flippin mortgage. Glad to be employed don't get me wrong, love my school and job but struggle with the temporary nature of the work:(

man_no_plan

All the info from our etb is that this will be effective from Sept. Unfortunately I think that people in year one now may may be in danger between redeployment and everything else as they have no right to an automatic renewal of contract

sitstill

man_no_plan wrote: »

All the info from our etb is that this will be effective from Sept. Unfortunately I think that people in year one now may may be in danger between redeployment and everything else as they have no right to an automatic renewal of contract

Thanks for that.
My Principal told me last week that he's certain it will be effective in September too but I don't know where he got his information.

Mardy Bum

sitstill wrote: »

Thanks for that.
My Principal told me last week that he's certain it will be effective in September too but I don't know where he got his information.

At the conferences all principals attend.

Kalimera

Circular expected soon but redeployment must be completed before either CIDs may be awarded or any position interviewed or any appointments made.