illegal irish

cena

Do many of ye know many Irish living illegal in the states. Do they find that they are looking over there shoulder a lot in case they are deported back to ireland

duckcfc

cena wrote: »

Do many of ye know many Irish living illegal in the states. Do they find that they are looking over there shoulder a lot in case they are deported back to ireland

Yes, we know

cena

duckcfc wrote: »

Yes, we know

We know what???

iusedtoknow

As long as they obey all the traffic rules, don't need healthcare, don't go to Arizona and don't need to leave the country for any reason whatsoever....they will be fine

I know of one, back east. He was a friend of a friend and ended up trying to get a kickstarter campaign to fund his treatment for a broken leg.

cena

iusedtoknow wrote: »

As long as they obey all the traffic rules, don't need healthcare, don't go to Arizona and don't need to leave the country for any reason whatsoever....they will be fine

I know of one, back east. He was a friend of a friend and ended up trying to get a kickstarter campaign to fund his treatment for a broken leg.

What's wrong with Arizona? Hardly worth not having healthcare with the price of medical bills in the states

Gandhi

Things changed completely after 9/11. It used to be that whether you were legal or not was the INS' problem and nobody else's. When I came here in the mid-90's I worked for a guy from Mayo who had originally come over here illegally. He had health insurance, owned his painting/redecorating business, with employees, vans and insurance. Filed tax returns for himself and the business, owned cars, a house, had his daughter in school, his wife working for a major department store chain. All while illegal. Very little of that would be remotely feasible today.

cena

Gandhi wrote: »

Things changed completely after 9/11. It used to be that whether you were legal or not was the INS' problem and nobody else's. When I came here in the mid-90's I worked for a guy from Mayo who had originally come over here illegally. He had health insurance, owned his painting/redecorating business, with employees, vans and insurance. Filed tax returns for himself and the business, owned cars, a house, had his daughter in school, his wife working for a major department store chain. All while illegal. Very little of that would be remotely feasible today.

Petty it isn't easy these days

iusedtoknow

cena wrote: »

What's wrong with Arizona? Hardly worth not having healthcare with the price of medical bills in the states

In Arizona any officer, whether it is police or immigration has the right to demand ID to check your eligibility to be in the country when they have reason to suspect you.

I was in Tucson recently for work, and was stopped at a ICE roadcheck twice on a Saturday driving home from visiting friends on the American side of the US/Mexico border in Nogales. This was about 10 miles north of Nogales and again about 20 miles south of Tucson.
At one, I showed my passport with my visa and up to date entry stamp and was on my way in less than 30 seconds. The next time I was pulled over, interrogated and let go after they made some other checks.

iusedtoknow

cena wrote: »

Petty it isn't easy these days

yeah it's a pity that a country has made it harder for people to break their laws.

it's a pity that people from other countries are forced to go through hoops in order to live legally in a place.

cena

iusedtoknow wrote: »

yeah it's a pity that a country has made it harder for people to break their laws.

it's a pity that people from other countries are forced to go through hoops in order to live legally in a place.

I'm not on about breaking the law to stay. It seemed easier before 9/11 to sort of stay illegal.

I am sure people have found loop holes in the system to they can stay.
I would give my right arm to be able to stay pass the 3 month holiday visa

Ponster

cena wrote: »

What's wrong with Arizona? Hardly worth not having healthcare with the price of medical bills in the states

Not true. Any decent job that offers insurance will make healthcare pretty affordably. I paid a lot more in France (in PRSI which funded health) than in the US.

Though insurance isn't an option when you're illegal.

iusedtoknow

Ponster wrote: »

Not true. Any decent job that offers insurance will make healthcare pretty affordably. I paid a lot more in France (in PRSI which funded health) than in the US.

Though insurance isn't an option when you're illegal.

Totally agree with this - have seen it from a couple angles

1. My wife is a doctor, i've seen the matrix that they use to charge patients. It is mind boggling - insured and non insured

2. When she was hospitalized and subsequently miscarried our child, our costs - thanks to our healthcare were minimal (around $500) with our provider picking up the additional 15000 in costs that we were charged. We are lucky in that my company provides 100% healthcare for us (and an amazing package) with an extremely low co-pay.

We're lucky in a lot of ways, but we would be a lot poorer without insurance.

cena

iusedtoknow wrote: »

Totally agree with this - have seen it from a couple angles

1. My wife is a doctor, i've seen the matrix that they use to charge patients. It is mind boggling - insured and non insured

2. When she was hospitalized and subsequently miscarried our child, our costs - thanks to our healthcare were minimal (around $500) with our provider picking up the additional 15000 in costs that we were charged. We are lucky in that my company provides 100% healthcare for us (and an amazing package) with an extremely low co-pay.

We're lucky in a lot of ways, but we would be a lot poorer without insurance.

Mind me asking what you do for a living?

iusedtoknow

cena wrote: »

Mind me asking what you do for a living?

I'm an IT Manager for a global pharmaceutical company.

cena

You must be on a good wage. Are they in Ireland too?

iusedtoknow

cena wrote: »

You must be on a good wage. Are they in Ireland too?

Salary...by european standards, yes I am on a great salary, but for San Francisco I am comfortable but by no means loaded.

yeah the company are in Ireland - i'm obviously not going to name them - my company sponsors people in on on the L visa category as soon as they meet certain criteria/salary levels

It was a tough road, but after 8 years of busting my arse up the ladder from service desk level 1 (turn things off and on) in different companies and countries, I got to a stage that I could apply for a job that would get me a visa and transfer.

SHOVELLER

Gandhi wrote: »

Things changed completely after 9/11. It used to be that whether you were legal or not was the INS' problem and nobody else's. When I came here in the mid-90's I worked for a guy from Mayo who had originally come over here illegally. He had health insurance, owned his painting/redecorating business, with employees, vans and insurance. Filed tax returns for himself and the business, owned cars, a house, had his daughter in school, his wife working for a major department store chain. All while illegal. Very little of that would be remotely feasible today.

I used to work for a guy from near Mayo in NY who was in the same situation as above and this was after 9/11.

Just googled the company and it's still there!

dave2pvd

cena wrote: »

I'm not on about breaking the law to stay. It seemed easier before 9/11 to sort of stay illegal.

I don't follow you. Staying illegally is breaking the law, right?

ekimiam

dave2pvd wrote: »

I don't follow you. Staying illegally is breaking the law, right?

people who overstay their visa dont get thrown in jail
breaking the law- to many cop shows mate!

cena

I know of a lad that moved to the states after a fight in a night club. Parents shipped him off to family that week. He is a tiler by trade. He was living there with no green card etc for years and got married last year or so.

I would have to say only married so he can stay in the states. He has brought herself over a few times and left her with his parents while he is out drinking all day.

iusedtoknow

ekimiam wrote: »

people who overstay their visa dont get thrown in jail
breaking the law- to many cop shows mate!

it is breaking the law - it's a felony to be in the US without proper authorization.

As for being thrown in jail...you're technically correct...as soon as you're caught (when/if it happens) you're kicked out on the next flight, and are usually held in a holding cell until your flight

Ponster

iusedtoknow wrote: »

you're kicked out on the next flight, and are usually held in a holding cell until your flight

It's actually much worse than that I believe. Paperwork takes time to sort out and you can be held in a detention facility (privately-run prison) until your case is seen by a judge and the deportation order signed. Approx 50% (I'll try to find a cite) of immigrants who are found without a visa are locked up.

dave2pvd

Ponster wrote: »

It's actually much worse than that I believe. Paperwork takes time to sort out and you can be held in a detention facility (privately-run prison) until your case is seen by a judge and the deportation order signed. Approx 50% (I'll try to find a cite) of immigrants who are found without a visa are locked up.

I've also herd that 6 month stays are not unheard of due to a backlog of cases. So, basically, internment. In jails.

So is that a bit like on cop shows?

silja

Almost all the time, if you are willing to leave and pay for your own flight, you can leave immediately. Of course that usually means admitting to the overstay and being banned for an amount of time.
If you are fighting the deportation or not paying for the flight home then yes, it can take longer as outlined above.

veetwin

silja wrote: »

Almost all the time, if you are willing to leave and pay for your own flight, you can leave immediately. Of course that usually means admitting to the overstay and being banned for an amount of time.
If you are fighting the deportation or not paying for the flight home then yes, it can take longer as outlined above.

Yes and if you don't have a valid passport with you then it's custody for several weeks until a travel document is issued. Most Irish deported from the USA will have spent time in custody regardless of the circumstances.

Wompa1

cena wrote: »

What's wrong with Arizona?

The cops are permitted to ask for your papers if they pull you over ...but that's for Mexicans. Surprisingly, being on the border has lead to a high amount of illegal immigrants in the state and they are trying to bring in tough laws to help curve it. It's very sad but at the same time, it's probably good for any place to be tough on illegal immigrants

Ponster

Wompa1 wrote: »

The cops are permitted to ask for your papers if they pull you over ...but that's for Mexicans.

Well technically they can ask anyone that they are suspicious of which if you get a cop on a bad day could be you

iusedtoknow

Ponster wrote: »

Well technically they can ask anyone that they are suspicious of which if you get a cop on a bad day could be you

Was asked twice in one day. The first stop, he looked at my passport ( which I now don't carry usually when in the US) and let me go in 30 seconds.
Second stop he had me pull over, asked for all kinds of things that I didn't have in me (work contract etc) and let me go after his superior cleared me.

Wompa1

iusedtoknow wrote: »

Was asked twice in one day. The first stop, he looked at my passport ( which I now don't carry usually when in the US) and let me go in 30 seconds.
Second stop he had me pull over, asked for all kinds of things that I didn't have in me (work contract etc) and let me go after his superior cleared me.

But that's not all that strange. I've been interrogated when driving from Phoenix to San Diego and back and also from Seattle to Vancouver and back.

When going back into Seattle, the guy didn't like my answers and after checking my ID, made me get out of my car and let him get in and check around it and open the boot and all of that. I didn't take it personally though.

And that wasn't even Nogales which is notorious for drug smuggling and it's many, many tunnels...

Paul_Hacket

Wompa1 wrote: »

But that's not all that strange. I've been interrogated when driving from Phoenix to San Diego and back and also from Seattle to Vancouver and back.

When going back into Seattle, the guy didn't like my answers and after checking my ID, made me get out of my car and let him get in and check around it and open the boot and all of that. I didn't take it personally though.

And that wasn't even Nogales which is notorious for drug smuggling and it's many, many tunnels...

There's kind of a difference between driving across an international border and driving around INSIDE the United States while minding your own business. Arizona's attitude towards Hispanics and people in general is simply disgusting.

Wompa1

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

There's kind of a difference between driving across an international border and driving around INSIDE the United States while minding your own business. Arizona's attitude towards Hispanics and people in general is simply disgusting.

I wasn't stopped at the border. They have checkpoints inside Arizona and California close to the border too. Not talking about the actual border crossing part.

Paul_Hacket

I was referring to going from Seattle to Vancouver, which you mentioned, which is obviously understandable if the check occurs during the crossing. Having checkpoints "near" the border might be reasonable too, but the nature of Arizona's law which allow cops to stop anybody anytime, anywhere they feel like it in order to have them present their "papers" is motivated by nothing but racism.

hfallada

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

I was referring to going from Seattle to Vancouver, which you mentioned, which is obviously understandable if the check occurs during the crossing. Having checkpoints "near" the border might be reasonable too, but the nature of Arizona's law which allow cops to stop anybody anytime, anywhere they feel like it in order to have them present their "papers" is motivated by nothing but racism.

And the same thing happens in Europe as well. German police will often have their checkpoints within Germany, near the borders. Although its in Schengen and there is supposed to be freedom of travel. The police will still get on a train from Austria and ask anyone they like see their ID. Is it racist, maybe. But if someone is illegal in a country, why should law enforcement turn a blind eye?

Paul_Hacket

Nope, the same thing doesn't happen in Europe unless you are totally failing to understand what I'm saying. You're talking about crossing borders or being in the area of a border. I'm talking about cops pulling over brown people in Phoenix just because they don't like em. And by the way, referencing Germany in defence of a "show me your papers" law might not be the best strategy.

Frank Lee Midere

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

I was referring to going from Seattle to Vancouver, which you mentioned, which is obviously understandable if the check occurs during the crossing. Having checkpoints "near" the border might be reasonable too, but the nature of Arizona's law which allow cops to stop anybody anytime, anywhere they feel like it in order to have them present their "papers" is motivated by nothing but racism.

Presumably the guy on here who was stopped was white. So not racism. Just the law.

US police pull over cars all the time for minor cause or none.

Frank Lee Midere

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Nope, the same thing doesn't happen in Europe unless you are totally failing to understand what I'm saying. You're talking about crossing borders or being in the area of a border. I'm talking about cops pulling over brown people in Phoenix just because they don't like em. And by the way, referencing Germany in defence of a "show me your papers" law might not be the best strategy.

Obviously the guy you were responding to was taking about the same thing. Police checks in Germany not on the border but close by. Theoretically you shouldn't be stopped across borders either.

Paul_Hacket

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Obviously the guy you were responding to was taking about the same thing. Police checks in Germany not on the border but close by. Theoretically you shouldn't be stopped across borders either.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Paul_Hacket

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Presumably the guy on here who was stopped was white. So not racism. Just the law.

US police pull over cars all the time for minor cause or none.

Absolutely wrong. In the US you have to have "probably cause" to pull someone over. This isn't a police state, although with attitudes such as yours it might get there.

The law in Arizona is framed so that cops can stop anyone any time they want and force them to prove they are legal residents. The cop only has to claim "reasonable suspicion" but does not have to articulate what that suspicion is based on. The people who wrote this law are open racists with a history of "concern" about the changing "demographics" of Arizona. In other words - they just don't like hispanics. The law is transparently racist and ugly and has been condemned by everybody from Karl Rove and Jeb Bush on the right to the heads of the Catholic Church in the USA to pretty much everybody who has common sense.

Wompa1

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Absolutely wrong. In the US you have to have "probably cause" to pull someone over. This isn't a police state, although with attitudes such as yours it might get there.

The law in Arizona is framed so that cops can stop anyone any time they want and force them to prove they are legal residents. The cop only has to claim "reasonable suspicion" but does not have to articulate what that suspicion is based on. The people who wrote this law are open racists with a history of "concern" about the changing "demographics" of Arizona. In other words - they just don't like hispanics. The law is transparently racist and ugly and has been condemned by everybody from Karl Rove and Jeb Bush on the right to the heads of the Catholic Church in the USA to pretty much everybody who has common sense.

I'm friends with Mexican Americans here, funny enough they love Sherif Joe and I think he's an a-hole. The tent prison is inhumane during the summer...

How would you deal with it?

Paul_Hacket

Deal with what? What we were discussing was how Arizona chooses to deal with its hispanic population. The fact that Jan frigging Brewer is the governor of the state and that this law was passed is pretty damning to me. It's nakedly racist and the people behind it have a documented history of racism. That's all I'm saying.

Wompa1

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Deal with what? What we were discussing was how Arizona chooses to deal with its hispanic population. The fact that Jan frigging Brewer is the governor of the state and that this law was passed is pretty damning to me. It's nakedly racist and the people behind it have a documented history of racism. That's all I'm saying.

I don't agree with either but then I don't have any better answer for dealing with the issue. It's not about how they deal with their hispanic population. I believe a white person on this thread said they were pulled over.....so it's everybody, not just hispanics. My friend has been pulled over twice since I've been here for speeding. He's as Mexican as they come and was never asked for his papers.

In Ireland we have blasphemy on the books. With the logic behind it being that it could be used selectively to tackle the gang problem.

In New York they brought in Stop and Frisk.

In the airports they brought in random frisking (racial profiling)

Arizona is not unique. There's no probably cause required in Stop and Frisk other than how the cop feels. Ditto in the airports...it's 'random'. I'm living in Phoenix and I haven't heard of a flurry of upset citizens that were pulled over and asked for their papers....because they are not pulling over every Mexican looking person. They are being selective. They aren't dumb, they have informants, they know where day laborers gather, they aren't targeting the hispanic community, they are attempting to target illegal immigrants....

And I still disagree with it simply on the dangerous premise it sets but I don't believe it's being abused. Just like I know the blasphemy law has not been abused since it's introduction back during the McAleese days.

lil_lisa

Arizona have state borders as well as international borders. i.e. when I'm driving from California to Arizona I have to show my passport, visa and paperwork to prove I'm legally in this country. I don't think any other state has mandatory border crossings like this. There are a few checkpoints in California coming up from the border but they're not always in use.

Paul_Hacket

You do not have to show i.d. when entering Arizona. No state has the right to ask you for i.d. while travelling internally inside the US. You cannot be stopped and made to present your papers without probable cause. That people are ignorant enough of the constitution and their basic rights to even think that this is reasonable is just ****ing bonkers. If you're referring to the checkpoint near Blythe, it is there because you are only a few miles from the US border and is manned by federal agents as part of their border operations not by Arizona enforcement.

You're a moderator? Do you want to back that nonsense up? Because bad as Arizona is, it does not stop people on its borders who are entering from other states.

PS - furthermore you do not have to present your i.d. even to the Feds at these checkpoints if they request it. They can ask you if you're a citizen but you do not even have to answer. If they have tangible and explicable probable cause to believe you are not a citizen - a foreign accent would probably qualify for this - they can detain you. However if you are a US citizen you don't even have to respond to them, they are simply chancing their arm and without probably cause they have zero legal basis to detain you or question you further. This is all because people in the USA have basic rights not to be arbitrarily harassed by the police.

lil_lisa

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

If they have tangible and explicable probable cause to believe you are not a citizen - a foreign accent would probably qualify for this - they can detain you..

Exactly! Hence the reason I have had to show my passport and documentation. I'm not going to risk being detained because I don't have my paperwork on me. I've passed through similar California borders and they simply asked me details about my legal presence but never to show documents. Even if there's no legal requirement to show my documents in Arizona, they have asked me for it and I don't know enough about law to know whether or not I have to show it. The same goes for a lot of other people travelling through Arizona.

Maybe it has just been the luck of the draw for me, but that's how travelling to Arizona has been. I'm not backing anything up, I'm simply letting everyone know what I have been through.

ProudDUB

A good friend of mine drives from San Diego to Phoenix a couple of times a month, to visit her parents. Once in Arizona, she gets pulled over at least once, on the way there and back. She drives a very fancy sports car with tinted windows, so law enforcement can't even see who is inside before they pull her over. She is pretty high up in the the ATF, which leads to some pretty funny exchanges once they realize who she is. They openly admit to targeting her as they think that she is involved in the drugs trade, mainly due to the car that she drives.