Outside the M50 and 3 beds are hitting €500k!!

morrga

5 new houses went for sale on Saturday in Glencairn View Leopardstown. Situtuated right beside a luas stop, these semi detached 3 beds went for €480,000 and the detached 3 bed for €510,000.

Within 10 minutes of the show house opening all 5 houses were gone sale agreed! Half a mill for a 3 bed outside the M50 ring as such!! When will this madness stop? We are thinking of abandoning plans for buying for 2/3 years and just continue to save and see how the market develops. There is no end to this madness but when will it end!! Not in the short to medium term by the looks of it.

Kaizersoze81

Absolute madness. They look nice and all, but 480,000 for a 3 bed semi.. Would I be right in saying this is more or less height of the boom prices?

quadrifoglio verde

morrga wrote: »

5 new houses went for sale on Saturday in Glencairn View Leopardstown. Situtuated right beside a luas stop, these semi detached 3 beds went for €480,000 and the detached 3 bed for €510,000.

Within 10 minutes of the show house opening all 5 houses were gone sale agreed! Half a mill for a 3 bed outside the M50 ring as such!! When will this madness stop? We are thinking of abandoning plans for buying for 2/3 years and just continue to save and see how the market develops. There is no end to this madness but when will it end!! Not in the short to medium term by the looks of it.

Provided your willing to rent for the next few years/few years longer than initially Anticipated, then carry on.
However, If it's somewhere where you can see yourself living in, until you come out in a box, then provided you can afford it, I'd buy now, because over the next 40 years, it's not going to make much difference anyway

You're either going to be paying rent for the next few years, or a mortgage. So long as you're not buying with the intention of trading up in 5 years time then fluctuations in price shouldn't bother you

D3PO

calling leopardstown outside the M50 ring is a bit of a push in fairness. Your getitng priced out we get it but o need to go exaggerating for effect.

spockety

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Absolute madness. They look nice and all, but 480,000 for a 3 bed semi.. Would I be right in saying this is more or less height of the boom prices?

It's about more than just prices..

The 2014 purchase can't be done with a cheap tracker mortgage, there is no interest relief, there is no first time buyers grant, etc., etc,. etc. I wonder how the affordability compares...

Cuddlesworth

These ones?

They have some perks, great transport links for Dublin. Easy access to the M50, Luas stop right beside them. Good amount of shops within easy reach.

D3PO

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

These ones?

They have some perks, great transport links for Dublin. Easy access to the M50, .

but its outside the M50 ring by about 100 meters :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cuddlesworth

D3PO wrote: »

but its outside the M50 ring by about 100 meters :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If they implemented tolling on the M50, you would see the value plummet.

o1s1n

Wow, I'm really gobsmacked at that.

I work around that part of Dublin and there really is nothing around there other than housing estates, roads and more housing estates. Zero character or charm.

D3PO

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If they implemented tolling on the M50, you would see the value plummet.

thats so arbitrary and theres nothing to back that up. Thats completely and utterly dependant on whos buys and how often and where they would be travelling on the M50.

Theres little to no evidence to back that statement up. Infact given the history of prices of commuter houses and the trend they have taken over the past 10 - 15 years what is evident is that there is a very clear lack of thinking from buyers of houses to their commute costs.

Larbre34

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Absolute madness. They look nice and all, but 480,000 for a 3 bed semi.. Would I be right in saying this is more or less height of the boom prices?

You wouldnt be right. A 1950s semi-D on the street I grew up on, not too far from Leopardstown recently sold for 440,000. At the height of the boom, a similar example went for 720,000. We are a long way from replicating the peak prices yet.

Idbatterim

well given that these are selling off the plans outside the M50, the asking prices of the ones you are talking about dont seem that outrageous OP, 4 bed terraced starting from 620,000!!!

http://www.grangehill.ie/index.html

On a side note, I think it is ridiculous, that the planning authorities are allowing that low density on top of the M50 and luas line...

Cuddlesworth

D3PO wrote: »

thats so arbitrary and theres nothing to back that up. Thats completely and utterly dependant on whos buys and how often and where they would be travelling on the M50.

Theres little to no evidence to back that statement up. Infact given the history of prices of commuter houses and the trend they have taken over the past 10 - 15 years what is evident is that there is a very clear lack of thinking from buyers of houses to their commute costs.

You seem overtly angry about that statement. As prices within the city increase, those outside of the city will increase. Thats a given.

But its a bad area for transport links once you add a substantial cost to using the M50. All other routes are already heavily overburdened without adding the obvious pressure that tolling would create. You don't have the ease that high volume infrastructure roads like the N1, N3 N4, N7, N11 and N81 add to most other "commute" zones.

handlemaster

Not surprised on a day when the housing manager for dublin city council says they have mapped out locations for prefabricated accommodation for families in Dublin. You wont get a three bed semi in dublin 15 for less than 160k now when two years ago it was 60 k less for cheapest

Idbatterim

this is one area they should be spending money on, before throwing it out hand over first in an effort to buy votes again!

custom_build

o1s1n wrote: »

Wow, I'm really gobsmacked at that.

I work around that part of Dublin and there really is nothing around there other than housing estates, roads and more housing estates. Zero character or charm.

Thats a sweepingly inaccurate statement. You are at the foot of the Dublin mountains which is great for cycling/ hiking and full of national forests, you are walking distance to stepaside/sandyford village with restraints and bars. there are golf clubs, rugby club, football club........ nearby. its actually a well located development with a multitude of local amenities. are you sure you are working in the same area?

D3PO

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You seem overtly angry about that statement. As prices within the city increase, those outside of the city will increase. Thats a given.

But its a bad area for transport links once you add a substantial cost to using the M50. All other routes are already heavily overburdened without adding the obvious pressure that tolling would create. You don't have the ease that high volume infrastructure roads like the N1, N3 N4, N7, N11 and N81 add to most other "commute" zones.

Not angry just incredilous at your statement that has nothing to back it up what so ever.

How is it a bad area for transport links ?

M50 on its door, LUAS, bus, N11, Dart park and ride no so far away too if it takes your fancy.

Besides which you have completely ignored or have no response to my point. What makes you think M50 tolling would impact on the house values there?

History says it would have no impact, commuter hous prices shot up during the boom at crazy levels and clearly those buying there and working in Dublin had little regard or thought for the impact the commute expense would have to their overall cost of ownership. Nor did they put a value clearly on their time.

So what makes you think that additional M50 tolling would impact it.

Especially if you consider

1) The growing trend of working from home
2) The fact that many many large multinationals are close to Leopardstown without the need to use the M50 (Vodafone, Microsoft, Dell etc etc.

Theres not an ounce of validity in your post. Im not angry just pointing out the facts (and before you retort Im not from nor do I live or have any links with the area)

o1s1n

custom_build wrote: »

Thats a sweepingly inaccurate statement. You are at the foot of the Dublin mountains which is great for cycling/ hiking and full of national forests, you are walking distance to stepaside/sandyford village with restraints and bars. there are golf clubs, rugby club, football club........ nearby. its actually a well located development with a multitude of local amenities. are you sure you are working in the same area?

It might have the amenities you mentioned but there's still no charm or character about the place. Not in my view anyway.

It feels like a load of houses which just sprung up from fields at the foot of the Dublin mountains during the Celtic Tiger. All new builds with the same generic look to them.

Obviously this does come down to an element of personal taste, but do you agree that a 3 bedroom semi D in that location is worth half a million euro? I find that laughable.

godtabh

o1s1n wrote: »

It might have the amenities you mentioned but there's still no charm or character about the place. Not in my view anyway.

It feels like a load of houses which just sprung up from fields at the foot of the Dublin mountains during the Celtic Tiger. All new builds with the same generic look to them.

Obviously this does come down to an element of personal taste, but do you agree that a 3 bedroom semi D in that location is worth half a million euro? I find that laughable.

You only work there. Try living there. I have for the last 5 years and think the place is great.

If you are an out doors person you couldnt ask for more in the Wicklow/Dublin mountains. Great for cycling.

Well established sports clubs near by.

Lots of history to the area. Research the names of the estates. Even how the estates were developed. Nationally famous race track near by (Dont like the races but still its there) and CLub 92

The Gallops has greens, play grounds, playing fields, schools, shops, 3 luas stops etc etc.

Great places to eat in Stepaside, Sandyford, Leopardstown that can be either wakled to or via public transport. M50 is on your door step with easy access to the N11, N81, N4, N3 etc.

Great place to live, work and bring up a family. Might not suit you but given the asking prices it suits alot of other people.

wrt40

morrga wrote: »

5 new houses went for sale on Saturday in Glencairn View Leopardstown. Situtuated right beside a luas stop, these semi detached 3 beds went for €480,000 and the detached 3 bed for €510,000.

Within 10 minutes of the show house opening all 5 houses were gone sale agreed! Half a mill for a 3 bed outside the M50 ring as such!! When will this madness stop? We are thinking of abandoning plans for buying for 2/3 years and just continue to save and see how the market develops. There is no end to this madness but when will it end!! Not in the short to medium term by the looks of it.

What has "outside the M50" got to do with anything?? Besides, it's literally right beside the M50...literally!

I suspect the price is mostly to do with the LUAS stop being right outside your front door. Personally, I would hate that but I'd imiagine it's good "investor" material. Also the M50 is considered a good thing for most commuters (despite it being on "outside" of it ) and the industrial estate is within walking distance. Again, "investor/landlord" written all over it.

JoeyJJ

This estate is 22 years old I believe, so didn't sprint up in Celtic tiger days. I have lived there last 3 years. Its a nice estate, brand new school just being completed, believe there will be a new Library and Swimming pool build in locality too.

I didn't realise there were going on sale last weekend, It is rated better in terms of energy with regard to other houses, good job I didn't know I would have walked up and being a tire kicker.

anncoates

Irish people seem to have this touching idea that just because we had a property crash that there will never be cyclical supply and demand price increases ever again and if there is, it's down to some dastardly coalition of forces stopping the market finding its "real level" (houses in Dublin 6 for 100k)

wrt40

D3PO wrote: »

but its outside the M50 ring by about 100 meters :rolleyes::rolleyes:

IS this actually a thing? inside and outside M50 dictating pricing?

uli84

How much a couple with a baby needs to earn to get/afford 450k mortgage?

morrga

wrt40 wrote: »

IS this actually a thing? inside and outside M50 dictating pricing?

Sorry guys, its no big deal. On a technicality it is outside the M50 and I only referenced that as the media have in recent times labelled the property market in this country as two seperate markets. One inside the M50 and the other outside the M50. Its tongue in cheek more than anything that technically the housing bubble is now spreading beyond the boundaries of the M50.

beauf

You're not really looking at the location, location, location.

Southside, near to Wicklow, lots of transport links, and facilities all around. Being near the M50 is only a part of it.

There lots of much cheaper places within the M50.

godtabh

uli84 wrote: »

How much a couple with a baby needs to earn to get/afford 450k mortgage?

Alot?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

100k/annum ish?

custom_build

A lot more than that i would have thought

about €140,000 as per the aib calculator, thats with no existing debt

imitation

Don't forget they are A3 rated new houses, that's going to add a nice bit to the price, even though its something people can often undervalue or pay little heed to when buying, but its quite possible to save thousands a year on heating fuel.

I don't think I would expect house prices to drop much from this point, shock recession aside, as long as government has its interest in making house prices go up, and Irish people refuse to rent or live in apartments, its going to be the same crazy prices scenario in no time.

fartyarse

uli84 wrote: »

How much a couple with a baby needs to earn to get/afford 450k mortgage?

Myself and my OH received approval in principle two months ago for 450k, he earns 50k and I earn slightly less, around 48k. That's based on a 35 year mortgage, monthy repayments would be €2400, stress tested to €2,700.

beauf

imitation wrote: »

... Irish people refuse to rent or live in apartments, its going to be the same crazy prices scenario in no time.

In fairness a lot of the apartments that were built were very poor and unsuitable. In particular for family living.

Mongfinder General

fartyarse wrote: »

Myself and my OH received approval in principle two months ago for 450k, he earns 50k and I earn slightly less, around 48k. That's based on a 35 year mortgage, monthy repayments would be €2400, stress tested to €2,700.

Something is wrong here. A loan of $450k at 4.5% works out $2,129.66 per month. Please don't tell me that your rate is higher than 4.5%?

Kaizersoze81

fartyarse wrote: »

Myself and my OH received approval in principle two months ago for 450k, he earns 50k and I earn slightly less, around 48k. That's based on a 35 year mortgage, monthy repayments would be €2400, stress tested to €2,700.

What bank? I earn 48,000 and was approved for 220

DublinDilbert

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Something is wrong here. A loan of $450k at 4.5% works out $2,129.66 per month. Please don't tell me that your rate is higher than 4.5%?

Ummmm its usually a good idea to pay back the principle amount, that's where €2400 comes from.

Although in the last boom/bubble the banks weren't even too keen on you paying back the principle and many Buy to Let's are still on interest only :eek: sure where's the harm in that!

Mongfinder General

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Ummmm its usually a good idea to pay back the principle amount, that's where €2400 comes from.

Although in the last boom/bubble the banks weren't even too keen on you paying back the principle and many Buy to Let's are still on interest only :eek: sure where's the harm in that!

UMMM, my calculation includes the principal and interest calculation.

http://www.rams.com.au/home-loans/calculators/principal-and-interest-calculator/

Somebody is ripping the op off.

DublinDilbert

Mongfinder General wrote: »

UMMM, my calculation includes the principal and interest calculation.

http://www.rams.com.au/home-loans/calculators/principal-and-interest-calculator/

Somebody is ripping the op off.

BOI calculator came out at €2400 / month

I think that's the builder that's looking forward to ripping them off, followed closely by the bank when the rates go up again

Icepick

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

These ones?

Why do they keep recycling that fugly house design?

custom_build

DublinDilbert wrote:

I think that's the builder that's looking forward to ripping them off, followed closely by the bank when the rates go up again 

Do you honestly have the foggiest idea of how much profit the builder is making, or are you just throwing out an uneducated populist soundbite.

jay0109

Icepick wrote: »

Why do they keep recycling that fugly house design?

Wow...that's just 1,240 sq ft for the detached....€412 per sq ft:eek:

fat_sam

anncoates wrote: »

Irish people seem to have this touching idea that just because we had a property crash that there will never be cyclical supply and demand price increases ever again and if there is, it's down to some dastardly coalition of forces stopping the market finding its "real level" (houses in Dublin 6 for 100k)

those cranks over at property pin have a lot to answer for , permabears are as lacking in credibility as permabulls

johnnyskeleton

anncoates wrote: »

Irish people seem to have this touching idea that just because we had a property crash that there will never be cyclical supply and demand price increases ever again and if there is, it's down to some dastardly coalition of forces stopping the market finding its "real level" (houses in Dublin 6 for 100k)

Even more bizzare are the people who, having seen one of the largest crashes in living memory assume it cant happen again and jump in eith both feet!

quadrifoglio verde

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Provided your willing to rent for the next few years/few years longer than initially Anticipated, then carry on.
However, If it's somewhere where you can see yourself living in, until you come out in a box, then provided you can afford it, I'd buy now, because over the next 40 years, it's not going to make much difference anyway

You're either going to be paying rent for the next few years, or a mortgage. So long as you're not buying with the intention of trading up in 5 years time then fluctuations in price shouldn't bother you

Fluctuation in prices could mean a house purchased now could be 100k more than in 3 or 4 years, over a 30 year term that would make much of a difference to most sane people.

mr_seer

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Even more bizzare are the people who, having seen one of the largest crashes in living memory assume it cant happen again and jump in eith both feet!

When house prices in Dublin are rising at an annual rate of 25% (and a lot higher in some areas), in an environment where incomes are stagnant (incomes actually fell in 2013), it is clearly a bubble. Granted the reasons are different than the last time but that does not make this one any more sustainable

fat_sam

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Even more bizzare are the people who, having seen one of the largest crashes in living memory assume it cant happen again and jump in eith both feet!

we are only in year four of the current property cycle in south dublin and in year three in the capital overall , after we peaked in 2006 , 2007 saw a small enough dip , things got serious towards the middle and third quater of 2008 and by the time the IMF arrived , we were in a perfect storm of fears about currency , a deep recession and complete investor paralysis

just as emotions became exhuberent around 2006 , we irrationally overshot the bottom as recent as 2010 , the country wasnt nuked , we were never syria , property was always going to recover as there were still a very significant number of people in this country who had plenty of money , let alone international capital which will find opportunity where it exists

well done to those who made the move at a time which will come to be seen as a generational low nearly four years ago

having said all that , i dont think dublin property is a good buy right now from an investment POV , that ship has sailed

fat_sam

mr_seer wrote: »

When house prices in Dublin are rising at an annual rate of 25% (and a lot higher in some areas), in an environment where incomes are stagnant (incomes actually fell in 2013), it is clearly a bubble. Granted the reasons are different than the last time but that does not make this one any more sustainable

interest rates are at record lows , people earn nothing in savings , inevitably leads to asset appreciation and irish people will always buy property when they can

NIMAN

They always say a house sells for what people think its worth, so the buyers of these houses obviously think they are worth half a million.

Even though the rest of us think they are loons!

uli84

fartyarse wrote: »

Myself and my OH received approval in principle two months ago for 450k, he earns 50k and I earn slightly less, around 48k. That's based on a 35 year mortgage, monthy repayments would be €2400, stress tested to €2,700.

Thanks, I must have been talking to the wrong bank all this time...

EmilyHoward

Now for half a million, do these houses come with decking and a patio heater or do I have to borrow more for that ?

morrga

DublinDilbert wrote: »

BOI calculator came out at €2400 / month

I think that's the builder that's looking forward to ripping them off, followed closely by the bank when the rates go up again

I think that's where BOI are catching everyone out with their fancy 'we'll pay your stamp duty' but just shove it back in to your repayments.

boardie100

fartyarse wrote: »

Myself and my OH received approval in principle two months ago for 450k, he earns 50k and I earn slightly less, around 48k. That's based on a 35 year mortgage, monthy repayments would be €2400, stress tested to €2,700.

they are still giving out 35 year mortgages?... did you actually get approved for that amount with a child?...

so for a 35 year mortgage you would be effectively paying one of your salaries a month towards the mortgage...not to mention what childcare costs and other expenses... leaving you with a pittance to live on all for the luxury of living in Leopardstown... I hope you told them where to stick that offer... !

an extra 300 stress tested ... how about a stress test of a job loss?