Pulling out of QA bonus

TUBBY

ICSA website link is in greysides post below.
phone didn't post right link.

there is a petition to show factories people are serious about action against factories.

can i urge everyone to sign so we send a message that QA scheme is under threat unless things change. Your name will not be submitted to bird bia just for confirmation to an independent auditor.

larrymiller

TUBBY wrote: »

www.icsaireland.ie

there is a petition to show factories people are serious about action against factories.

can i urge everyone to sign so we send a message that QA scheme is under threat unless things change.

Bad link

Feckthis

TUBBY wrote: »

www.icsaireland.ie

there is a petition to show factories people are serious about action against factories.

can i urge everyone to sign so we send a message that QA scheme is under threat unless things change.

the link isn't working!

greysides

Try Here.

TITANIUM.

TUBBY wrote: »

www.icsaireland.ie

there is a petition to show factories people are serious about action against factories.

can i urge everyone to sign so we send a message that QA scheme is under threat unless things change.

Done.
literally takes 30 seconds.
Hope some good comes outta it.

smokey-fitz

Done. Quick and easy

joejobrien

done here aswell

simx

Done and sister has it done too

Miname

done

Base price

Done

Nettleman

TUBBY wrote: »

ICSA website link is in greysides post below.
phone didn't post right link.

there is a petition to show factories people are serious about action against factories.

can i urge everyone to sign so we send a message that QA scheme is under threat unless things change. Your name will not be submitted to bird bia just for confirmation to an independent auditor.

Done and spoke to others, but they might not have web access. Can they phone in to your office, or put an add in rag with the form that readers can post back?

tim04750

done

Bodacious

Done

TUBBY

Nettleman wrote: »

Done and spoke to others, but they might not have web access. Can they phone in to your office, or put an add in rag with the form that readers can post back?

i have no connection with icsa to be honest nettleman. Just saw it and posted it. Follow on from the beef in crisis thing more so.
fair play though. I have registered for a neighbour too. As long as they happy to do it and give ya herd number, that all ya need.

huey1975

Done

Base price

Done again - I had to ask OH's permission to sign it for his herd number.

micky mouse

done

Count Mondego

Done,

They pissed me of this year with their bull**** penalties of over 400kg and fat scores. Between the 2 of these only half of my stick qualified. Ant to be honest, 12 cent isn't worth a fcuk.

Count Mondego

Done,

They pissed me of this year with their bull**** penalties of over 400kg and fat scores. Between the 2 of these only half of my stick qualified. And to be honest, 12 cent isn't worth a fcuk.

Muckit

Bord Bia are doing me no favours as a farmer unfortunately. Done

Base price

I do not want to derail the thread but I had to laugh at the factories moving their own goalposts and not giving a fiddlers if you were QA or not, overage or out of spec - when cattle became scarce in the last few weeks and they needed the numbers. Shifting sand.....

Coonagh

Base price wrote: »

I do not want to derail the thread but I had to laugh at the factories moving their own goalposts and not giving a fiddlers if you were QA or not, overage or out of spec - when cattle became scarce in the last few weeks and they needed the numbers. Shifting sand.....

Still not easy to get a quote on non QA cattle, I sent heifers up the north couldn't get a quote off southern factories.

Base price

Coonagh wrote: »

Still not easy to get a quote on non QA cattle, I sent heifers up the north couldn't get a quote off southern factories.

When?

Coonagh

In the last 10 days and as far as I know the kill has been very strong in the last week

simx

Joke of a system IMO, know one factory will not take cows that aren't QA and have to be in herd 70 days, got deducted .30c/kg on 3 cows because didn't have them 70 days, factory I killed last few in ask are ya in QA and don't give a fiddlers about how many days, and there's not even a bonus on cows anyway

Coonagh

simx wrote: »

Joke of a system IMO, know one factory will not take cows that aren't QA and have to be in herd 70 days, got deducted .30c/kg on 3 cows because didn't have them 70 days, factory I killed last few in ask are ya in QA and don't give a fiddlers about how many days, and there's not even a bonus on cows anyway

QA never been an issue here when killing cows and we used to move a good lot of them. Factory excuses if you ask me.

A mass withdrawal of QA farmers from the scheme would definitely make the factories sit up though. The question is will enough farmers buy into the protest.

Base price

Coonagh wrote: »

In the last 10 days and as far as I know the kill has been very strong in the last week

Surprised you could not get a quote. OH brought a double of overage bullocks incl 8 heifers to a factory the last week of August. They were not our cattle and not from a QA herd. Do not know what price they got as that is his side of things.

Coonagh

Base price wrote: »

Surprised you could not get a quote. OH brought a double of overage bullocks incl 8 heifers to a factory the last week of August. They were not our cattle and not from a QA herd. Do not know what price they got as that is his side of things.

Sorry should have clarified I got a quote alright but the price was ****e I had to go north to get a price I could live with. Haulage covered aswell

Base price

Coonagh wrote: »

QA never been an issue here when killing cows and we used to move a good lot of them. Factory excuses if you ask me.

A mass withdrawal of QA farmers from the scheme would definitely make the factories sit up though. The question is will enough farmers buy into the protest.

That is the million dollar question. Fingers crossed they will.
It is up to us all to drive this on. Look at what the hill/commonage sheep farmers are doing in the West. They are physically there, day on day, protesting outside Enda's office in Mayo.
All we are asked to do is to sign a online petition.

Coonagh

Remember that QA is voluntary for the farmer but it has become a necessity for the factory/retailer.

This is the message that needs to be got to producers, there is an opportunity there to hurt the processor/retailer but like we already said is the appetite there among enough of the farmers to make a difference.

rangler1

Base price wrote: »

That is the million dollar question. Fingers crossed they will.
It is up to us all to drive this on. Look at what the hill/commonage sheep farmers are doing in the West. They are physically there, day on day, protesting outside Enda's office in Mayo.
All we are asked to do is to sign a online petition.

Bit more serious than that,
You're signing a commitment to withdraw from QA

Mad4simmental

Done,

thought it would be a very good
when it came out first, load of sh!t now to be honist. It is of no benefit to the farmer.

kingstown

Done

kingstown

Done

TITANIUM.

rangler1 wrote: »

Bit more serious than that,
You're signing a commitment to withdraw from QA

Jesus Rangler it's a petition. Not a commitment to do anything if it comes to it. And it might come to it.
Then you'll have to make your decision.
But by the sounds of it, allot of people already have there minds made up about it. Fair play to the ICSA for thinking of a way to rally support from farmers and potentially hurt the factories.

TITANIUM.

Coonagh wrote: »

Remember that QA is voluntary for the farmer but it has become a necessity for the factory/retailer.

Excellent point

cristeoir

Done it.

Base price

rangler1 wrote: »

Bit more serious than that,
You're signing a commitment to withdraw from QA

Nope. Read the print -
Could one of the mods embed this for me as I do not know how, thanks.

foxy farmer

Do they pay a QA Bonus for horsemeat? QA and traceability my ass.
I never signed up for the scheme. Had a gob****e from Dublin ring me giving out that a report had been sent in by a Bord Bia inspector that I wasnt answering his calls and being uncooperative when I did answer. Made me out to be some sort of criminal.
Double jobbing "auditors" calling at the drop of a hat and nearly checking whats in the press under the kitchen sink. I dont believe they have the necessary training to do safety audits. Leave that to the HSA.
This was a scheme dreamed up during the Celtic Tiger years. Now no one wants to pay for it. How much did all the books in the plastic folder cost to print? Dairymen are now in the firing line with BB. Wait a few years and watch a similar tale unfold.

smokey-fitz

rangler1 wrote: »

Bit more serious than that,
You're signing a commitment to withdraw from QA

No commitment to a petition, but a will to commit..

Anyway there are so many cattle being killed not qualifying for qa, at the same time because they come from a qa herd they are qa cattle. So the factory can sell bb qa meat without paying the farmer..

Now I may be mistaken, so correct me if I am. But thats the way I view it

foxy farmer

smokey-fitz wrote: »

No commitment to a petition, but a will to commit..

Anyway there are so many cattle being killed not qualifying for qa, at the same time because they come from a qa herd they are qa cattle. So the factory can sell bb qa meat without paying the farmer..

Now I may be mistaken, so correct me if I am. But thats the way I view it

As the saying goes "You'll never see paper to refuse ink"
During the Intervention years the factories were adept at altering stamps, documentation, and the contents of boxes.

smokey-fitz

foxy farmer wrote: »

As the saying goes "You'll never see paper to refuse ink"
During the Intervention years the factories were adept at altering stamps, documentation, and the contents of boxes.

No surprise there.. I just think the qa system needs to be updated at least. Every animal should recieve some bonus if it comes from a qa herd. Obviously being less if its a lesser quality animal, and 30 month, 400kg limit should be scrapped also.

If we keep letting factories away with these changes, its going to get worse in time.

paddysdream

rangler1 wrote: »

Bit more serious than that,
You're signing a commitment to withdraw from QA

Are bluebell afraid of being caught with their pants down?

There is no legal obligation/commitment in signing the petition.Its being used to see if a concerted campaign will at least make the processors listen and to maybe show them that enough is enough.

QA is a joke.Its of no real use to farmers,just another hoop to jump through without any benefit.
Signed up for both cattle and sheep many years ago and to me any inspection where the person doing it has to look through the answers to find where he can dock you a few percent to ensure you don't get 100% result is a joke.Had that here on my last 3 inspections with both cattle and sheep as to get a pass rate is so easy as to defy belief.

All the above and I wouldn't even believe I am the most exact of record keepers.All they need are a herd/flock register filled out,medicine register filled in,lockable storage for drugs with used needle container,few signs on gates and stock tagged etc.Of course the dog has to be wormed and recorded in the aforementioned blue book plus safety statement(3 minutes max) plus a bait plan.Once you have had one inspection then if you get less than 95% in subsequent ones then you are not really with it to be honest.

Maybe the threat to withdraw might make the minister and/or the factories sit up and take notice.Cannot do any harm really.

If you are innocent enough to believe that the factories see it as anything than another little bit of paperwork that can be disregarded at a moments notice then you are just kidding yourself.

foxy farmer

How quick would the BB symbol disappear off prepacked meats if lads backed out of QA? Non QA meat should be cheaper too as theres no bonus paid. Doubt if the price would come down though.
And I personally don't believe that an urban housewife is dictating the age for killing young bulls. If she can spot the difference between 18months and 16month old beef God bless her. Shes a genius.

rangler1

paddysdream wrote: »

rangler1 wrote: »

Bit more serious than that,
You're signing a commitment to withdraw from QA[/QUOTE

Are bluebell afraid of being caught with their pants down?

There is no legal obligation/commitment in signing the petition.Its being used to see if a concerted campaign will at least make the processors listen and to maybe show them that enough is enough.

QA is a joke.Its of no real use to farmers,just another hoop to jump through without any benefit.
Signed up for both cattle and sheep many years ago and to me any inspection where the person doing it has to look through the answers to find where he can dock you a few percent to ensure you don't get 100% result is a joke.Had that here on my last 3 inspections with both cattle and sheep as to get a pass rate is so easy as to defy belief.

All the above and I wouldn't even believe I am the most exact of record keepers.All they need are a herd/flock register filled out,medicine register filled in,lockable storage for drugs with used needle container,few signs on gates and stock tagged etc.Of course the dog has to be wormed and recorded in the aforementioned blue book plus safety statement(3 minutes max) plus a bait plan.Once you have had one inspection then if you get less than 95% in subsequent ones then you are not really with it to be honest.

Maybe the threat to withdraw might make the minister and/or the factories sit up and take notice.Cannot do any harm really.

If you are innocent enough to believe that the factories see it as anything than another little bit of paperwork that can be disregarded at a moments notice then you are just kidding yourself.

Factories will see the petition as a bit of paperwork as well if they are reading here
Looks like a commitment to me
,'' ICSA is now moving to implement its threat to withdraw from the Bord Bia Quality Assurance Scheme by asking all farmers who support this action to sign a petition to that effect.''

TUBBY

rangler1 wrote: »

paddysdream wrote: »

Factories will see the petition as a bit of paperwork as well if they are reading here
Looks like a commitment to me
,'' ICSA is now moving to implement its threat to withdraw from the Bord Bia Quality Assurance Scheme by asking all farmers who support this action to sign a petition to that effect.''

rangler- if this was an ifa idea you would be pushing it. Would this not be an example of where farm bodies could unite and ye could recommend people to LOOK at this petition and decide for themselves whether to sign.

i read it as supporting the intention to pull out. It is not legally binding that you will pull out. However if you read this thread you can see that most beef farmers see QA as just another rod to be beaten with.
fair play to icsa for some innovation.

p.s. This post is not meant to provoke a ifa bashing session. Just want to rally as,much support for this petition as possible from all quarters.

smokey-fitz

QA is a tool for promotion, factories reap the benifits of this. Why do they only want qa approved cattle most of the time? So its obviously important to them. At the same time farmers dont get the bonus for alot of qa cattle that are processed through the qa system.

The effort on our part isnt huge, when it come's to audits. The point im making is if factories can use this against us when suits, we should use it against them. Then maybe bb themselves might start doing something to, dont forget they get a small fee per head off this scheme also

paddysdream

rangler1 wrote: »

paddysdream wrote: »

Factories will see the petition as a bit of paperwork as well if they are reading here
Looks like a commitment to me
,'' ICSA is now moving to implement its threat to withdraw from the Bord Bia Quality Assurance Scheme by asking all farmers who support this action to sign a petition to that effect.''

And you see a problem with this (pulling out that is)?

Maybe its time for the IFA to s**t or get off the pot.Not much use threatning to do something unless you are prepared to follow it through.Just reading the posts on here it seems that many feel the same.

Something like this might actually work because as I said in another thread,Irish farmers seem to prefer rolling over and having their bellies rubbed and both the minister/government and the factories/supermarkets know this.A different approach,radical as it might seem to you,could be the answer.

whelan2

done

KatyMac

Done

Nettleman

When your herd number gets inputted into the BB website, it returns you name, whether certified or not, and date your cert expires. I think the expiry date is something factories could use against you, if you are near expiry date, either your certified or your not.
I asked them to restrict the data released, and if someone wanted info on my herd, it could be released to them with my written permission in advance.
BB this morning have not agreed to alter the data published and are saying that I always had the option of withdrawing from the scheme if I didn't like the information being published. Surely this is my data, and I should have control over how a state body uses it, and it includes my name, which is personal data. This "ivory tower" approach to farmers is not surprising, do as we say or shag off !