Why is the broadcasting charge postponed ?

Cork_chick_94

Too many vested interests in an post ?

Raspberry Fileds

Word on the street is that the General Election will be announced for end of 2015. Perhaps Government is trying to avoid negativity.

The Cush

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

Why is the broadcasting charge postponed ?

A couple of recent newspaper articles on it

Proposed broadcasting charge set for deferral

New TV fee delayed to avoid water bill clash

RTÉ TV boss: ‘I’m not prepared to manage decline’

Revenue collection of broadcast fee blocked by Rabbitte

Elmo

IMO it was never going to be introduced by this government, Civil Servants need about 10 years to do anything.

Sam Russell

It is poorly thought out. It appears to be charging everyone for a TV licence whether they have one or not. It has been estimated that 15% of people do not pay for a licence, but 95% of houses (at least) are liable.

Using those figures, and the fact that An Post get 5% or so to collect it, a Broadcasting Charge of €129 per year would raise the same amount. If the charge was set at €120 per year or €10 per month. This sounds like a better deal, and if more revenue is needed, put a small charge on mobile phones (since they are benefitting from the release of spectrum) on, say, text messages. Alternatively, put a small levy on broadband charges of say €2 per month.

Collecting this charge through the energy bills would make collection cost free, and unavoidable.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Collecting this charge through the energy bills would make collection cost free

Minus the ESB's administration fee of course, the Revenue would be closest to cost free but Pat Rabbitte had a future election in mind. Wouldn't look good if they were chasing his constituents (Dublin South West) for the TV Licence fee in the run in to an election.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

Minus the ESB's administration fee of course, the Revenue would be closest to cost free but Pat Rabbitte had a future election in mind. Wouldn't look good if they were chasing his constituents (Dublin South West) for the TV Licence fee in the run in to an election.

There is also a historic reason for not allowing Revenue collect the licence fee as the government may put political pressures on the Broadcasters. Though that is debatable under the current structure.

IMO the licence fee should be collected by ComReg from Broadband, PayTV and Telephone providers. Basically depending on their market penetration e.g. the figure is set as €200m if a company has 10% of the telecommunications market they pay €20m to the licence fee.

Cork_chick_94

The idea of a "Television licence" and arresting people for having an unlicenced television set is so last century though isnt't it ? Even the weekly payment option at the post office is still a book of stamps.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

There is also a historic reason for not allowing Revenue collect the licence fee as the government may put political pressures on the Broadcasters.

What happens now - a semi-state, An Post, collects the TV Licence for a fee for the Dept of Comunications. The Dept of Communications distributes the monies to RTÉ, BAI and TG4

What could happen in future - a state agency, the Revenue Commissioners, collects the TV Licence for no fee for the Dept of Comunications. The Dept of Communications distributes the monies to RTÉ, BAI and TG4

Note the difference.

Elmo

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

The idea of a "Television licence" and arresting people for having an unlicenced television set is so last centery though isnt't it ? Even the weekly payment option at the post office is still a book of stamps.

I think you can Direct Debit it not sure if their is a monthly option for DD.

Putting people in prison for not paying fines of any kind isn't good.

I don't think the Department should give out the licence fee, that should be done by the BAI/ComReg shouldn't go near the Minister, one of the only reasons that department has such a big budget is the Licence Fee and it isn't even theirs.

The Cush

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

The idea of a "Television licence" and arresting people for having an unlicenced television set is so last century though isnt't it ?

The licence fee is the way we fund our public service broadcaster like many other public broadcasters around Europe so that's a given, jailing people for non-payment isn't the way to go. Deduction at source, pay/pension/welfare like the LPT via the Revenue is the better option.

Cork_chick_94

At least though we are not as old fashioned as the uk, who still sell black and white tv licence.

The Cush

This from the Dept's briefing document to Alex White when he took over as Minister

Public Sector Broadcasting Charge/History

Programme for Government
The Programme for Government commits to “examin[ing] the role, and collection of, the TV licence fee in light of existing and projected convergence of broadcasting technologies, trans-form the TV licence into a household-based Public Broadcasting Charge applied to all households and applicable businesses, regardless of the device they use to access content and review new ways of TV licence collection, including the possibility of paying in instalments through another utility bill (electricity or telecom), collection by local authorities, Revenue or new contract with An Post.”

It also commits to review the funding of public and independent broadcasters to ensure a healthy broadcasting environment in Ireland. This commitment recognises the financial pres-sures that both public service and commercial broadcasters have faced in recent years as a result of the significant decline in commercial revenues. While this decline is primarily due to the impact of the recession, revenues have also been impacted by the increasing fragmentation of the broadcast market, as a result of an increased number of channels available on sat-ellite and cable, and through online and other emerging platforms.

Current Status:

• Work began in early 2011 on an alternative funding system for PSB. Following the Programme for Government launch in 2011, this work continued with a view to meeting the commitment of a household based charge.
  
• A presentation on the research findings was given to the Minister/Sec Gen on the 03 Oct 2011, the consensus of which was to seek the implementation of a PSB charge on the households & businesses.
  
• In 2013 DCENR completed a Value for Money (VFM) Policy Review on the proposals.
  
• A Public Consultation Process based on the key VFM findings ran from 26th August to 8th October 2013. During this process 385 submissions were received with 59 of these from relevant Stakeholders.
  
• A common theme that ran through the submissions was that the Revenue Commissioners should collect the Charge on the same basis as the Local Property Tax (LPT). Detailed discussions took place between the Department and the Office of the Revenue Commissioners to establish the feasibility of Revenue collecting the PSB Charge. Revenue indicated that it would only be feasible for them to collect the Charge on the same basis as the LPT on an “owner” basis and on a single liability date.
  
• The Division submitted a number of proposals to the Minister in Q1, 2014 requesting sanction to draft a Memo for Government to collect the Charge on this basis.
  
• On the 6 May, the Minister informed the Division that he regarded the proposed model for a PSB Charge as not being acceptable, notwithstanding the obvious ad-antages it offered. He asked that this Division prepare a note outlining the “the other options available and their respective merits, including in particular any steps that can be taken relatively immediately.”
  
• This Division prepared a note, outlining ten separate options for amendments to the system of collecting revenues to fund public service broadcasting, some substantial in nature, others more short term. The note concluded that the issues facing the pre-sent television licence fee collection system are such that a systemic overhaul is required; there are few, if any, any short term fixes available that might result in in-creased stability of funding or in increased revenues.
  
• On 18 June, the Minister responded that the Division should continue to probe as to whether there is an effective alternative collection method. In addition he requested the drafting of a short, single purpose Bill which would provide for access by An Post to the subscription data held by TV service providers in order to assist in li-cence fee collection.
  
• On 27 June, Broadcasting Policy Division circulated a copy of the Draft Memo for Government to all Departments for observations. The decision sought in the memo is the immediate drafting of legislation to enable access by the Minister’s TV Licence Collecting Agent (currently An Post) to the subscription data held by TV service providers in order to assist in licence fee collection, in advance of a broader legislative package arising from the Government response to the 5 Year Review of the adequacy of funding for public sector broadcasting. Observations received are now being examined.
  
• A Workshop was held on Wednesday, 2 July to look at how to generate short-term term operational and/or legislative ideas that will address evasion. Representatives from RTE, An Post and the Department attended Workshop. RTE, An Post and the Department attended Workshop.

Next Steps

• Following the Workshop the Department will draft and submit a response to the Minister setting out what options are available in the short-term to improve compliance and reduce evasion.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/D80A9AC9-BC80-4E9C-AA72-BF3D8392A383/0/MinisterialBriefforDCENRWebsite.pdf

Sam Russell

Deleted

Elmo

During this process 385 submissions were received with 59 of these from relevant Stakeholders.

59 relevant stakeholders? bizzare number guess the viewer/listeners aren't relevant stakeholders, Lobby groups.

icdg

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

Word on the street is that the General Election will be announced for end of 2015. Perhaps Government is trying to avoid negativity.

This. The general election will be no later than April 2016. It may be sooner, if the Government thinks there is electoral advantage in it or some unforeseen circumstances led to it falling sooner. Either way, the Government would be faced with bringing in a controversial new tax right before the election at a time when they are actually looking at cutting taxes. Reform of the TV licensing system will have to wait for another day and another government and to be honest there's no political will to do it and the only person championing it was sacked in the reshuffle.

Elmo

icdg wrote: »

the only person championing it was sacked in the reshuffle.

Do you honestly think that Alex White stopped the change, pat rabbiitte had no interest in real reform he only wanted to see the licence fee removed from his holiday home. IMO

Cork_chick_94

I would have thought that the broadcasting charge would have only been unfair to a very tiny minorty of people who don't have any kind of Television ?

Elmo

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

I would have thought that the broadcasting charge would have only been unfair to a very tiny minorty of people who don't have any kind of Television ?

Possibly but both names for such a tax is misleading in any case.

You pay the TV licence because you own a TV, but it funds much more than TV and more than just RTÉ (though much of it is under the umbrella of RTÉ).

The broadcasting change is a daft name when again the "charge" funds different aspects of the media and different media types.

Perhaps it should be called the Cultural Fund?

icdg

Elmo wrote: »

Do you honestly think that Alex White stopped the change, pat rabbiitte had no interest in real reform he only wanted to see the licence fee removed from his holiday home. IMO

No, I am saying that whoever was in office - including Pat Rabbitte - would have stopped the change anyway. Even if legislation was prepared and made it to Cabinet it would have gotten no further now, it's too near the general election.

Cork_chick_94

Elmo wrote: »

Possibly but both names for such a tax is misleading in any case.

You pay the TV licence because you own a TV, but it funds much more than TV and more than just RTÉ (though much of it is under the umbrella of RTÉ).

The broadcasting change is a daft name when again the "charge" funds different aspects of the media and different media types.

Perhaps it should be called the Cultural Fund?

A lot of the tv licence goes to radio. Austria have a radio licence that costs about €50 per year

Elmo

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

A lot of the tv licence goes to radio. Austria have a radio licence that costs about €50 per year

I think Denmark or Sweden has an in car radio licence !!!

Sam Russell

If they want to gain by introducing the BC, they need to re-imagine it (if you pardon the expression).

1. It should raise no more money in total than the existing licence.

2. It should raise funds from text messages and from broadband.

3. I like the idea of changing its name, and Cultural Fund has a nice ring to it.

The household part of it should be collected by the ESB Networks charges on properties, or it should be collected along with the LPT.

makeorbrake

The whole crux of it is - do we need a national broadcaster!? Montrose being insulated by provision of guaranteed revenue stream each year is not likely to be leading to value for money for the irish tax payer.

If we need a national broadcaster on the basis that there is a state hand in disseminating 'spin' rather than potentially have foreign owned interests push their own agendas, then can they not trim this down to a state owned news/current affairs channel or wholesale provider of news/current affairs content - making any independent broadcaster utilise a certain minimum percentage of such content.

If this is the rationale, who is protecting us from inaccurate state propagated 'spin'?? The idea is outdated in any event given new channels via dissemination of info via internet.


Therefore, scrap the damned thing and either trim rte right down to the bare bones or wind it up. The irony...there were widescale protests in Greece when they closed down their public service broadcaster - no chance of them doing that here (closing rte down).

Sam Russell

makeorbrake wrote: »

The whole crux of it is - do we need a national broadcaster!? Montrose being insulated by provision of guaranteed revenue stream each year is not likely to be leading to value for money for the irish tax payer.

If we need a national broadcaster on the basis that there is a state hand in disseminating 'spin' rather than potentially have foreign owned interests push their own agendas, then can they not trim this down to a state owned news/current affairs channel or wholesale provider of news/current affairs content - making any independent broadcaster utilise a certain minimum percentage of such content.

If this is the rationale, who is protecting us from inaccurate state propagated 'spin'?? The idea is outdated in any event given new channels via dissemination of info via internet.


Therefore, scrap the damned thing and either trim rte right down to the bare bones or wind it up. The irony...there were widescale protests in Greece when they closed down their public service broadcaster - no chance of them doing that here (closing rte down).

Do you ever watch TV3? Xposed and the like?

makeorbrake

Sam Russell wrote: »

Do you ever watch TV3? Xposed and the like?

I'm not sure where this is going but no - I don't tend to. Having said that, I don't tend to watch a whole lot of rte either.

Elmo

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'm not sure where this is going but no - I don't tend to. Having said that, I don't tend to watch a whole lot of rte either.

I think the problem still lies with funding. Often, and this is the case within RTÉ also, people view Radio and TV as a means of watching or listening to News and Current Affairs. Meanwhile largely speaking TV programming outside News have been reduced to a set of ads (Regardless of the TV channel, product placement).

People and again those TV executives in both RTÉ and TV3 seem to forget about other types of TV. Drama, Documentary (often Docs are Current Affairs in nature), Comedy and so on.

No matter how you distribute programming it is expensive to produce. And the question is how is it funded.

The TV3 experience isn't a good example of how a private company in a small country can produce TV, this is due in part to their own instance of 50% programming must be Irish, 12 hours of Irish TV on a tiny budget can't be good.

Sam Russell

^^^
Exactly. If you look at programmes that are made on the cheap, they are rubbish. A lot of programming (not just on Irish TV) has pursued making cheaper and cheaper programmes. Reality type programmes are cheap because the 'actors' are not paid, and it generally is not rehearsed. Quiz programmes are also cheap for much the same reason. Drama is ferociously expensive, and costume drama more so. Comedy is just not funny, because it needs loads of writers to wrtie the funny stuff and they are rare beasts.

Because of all this, we need RTE to bring a level of production values to programmes (because they have the budget) that sets a level that should be aspired to by all programme makres. They do not always succeed, particularly with comedy.

icdg

For what it's worth the proposed Bill for the Broadcasting Charge is still on the Government's legislative programme as of 17th September, albeit as one that had yet to go to cabinet and expected mid 2015. As I say I will be extremely surprised if it were to make it onto the statute book this side of the general election.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Glad it‘s looking likely to be put on the long finger.

munchkin_utd

Elmo wrote: »

I think Denmark or Sweden has an in car radio licence !!!

germany did too, and still effectively does for car radios in company cars.

but now that homes have multiple ways of recieving broadcasts/ public service content, it has a broadcasting charge on every household like is proposed in Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsservice_von_ARD,_ZDF_und_Deutschlandradio

Since 2013, these fees must be paid by every household in Germany, regardless of whether the household actually has the capability to receive the broadcasts themselves.