proposed Aviation fuel pipeline from Dublin port to Airport

expectationlost

the plan for a aviation fuel pipeline from Dublin port to Dublin airport is being revived, it had got planning 2000 but shelved after 9/11 they say, ( did they really think people would stop flying?, or did plan make more sense before the port tunnel was open, certainly a pipeline is still more efficient and safer then trucks through a tunnel. )

its a relatively small pipe
Fuel pipeline to link Dublin port and airport http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/fuel-pipeline-to-link-dublin-port-and-airport-1.1924537

The pipeline is to be made of continuous welded steel and would have a diameter of 200mm with an outer wall of 12.7mm. It would be set in a trench 1.5m below the road, with 1.2m of cover.

some articles on it
Jet fuel pipeline proposal revived
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1455627.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_09_06 ST €

The project got planning approval in 2001 after appeals to An Bord Pleanala, but was not developed and the planning permit lapsed.

Fuel pipeline to link Dublin port and airport
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/fuel-pipeline-to-link-dublin-port-and-airport-1.1924537?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Independent Pipeline Company, is backed by Co Laois-based engineering concern Fingleton White, and Dublin-based fuel transporters Reynolds Logistics

http://www.fingleton.ie

they say its safer then trucks, there certainly an argument there, what route do the trucks currently take?
there were some public information meeetings last week

the practiced lobbiest of Clontarf Business and Residents association are keeping an on eye on it
Attention all Clontarf Residents - Aviation Fuel Pipeline http://www.clontarf.ie/news/attention-all-clontarf-residents-aviation-fuel-pipeline

A pic of the route thanks to niallgean
https://twitter.com/niallgean/status/509422009575813120


did anyone else go to the public meeting


Fuel pipe from Dublin port to airport in the pipeline http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/fuel-pipeline-to-link-dublin-port-and-airport-1.1924537 there a clearer map of the route in this article

Pipeline firm to meet backer’s costs if airport project goes ahead http://www.irishtimes.com/business/markets/pipeline-firm-to-meet-backer-s-costs-if-airport-project-goes-ahead-1.1927421?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

-

the old proposal and route is here http://www.fingleton.ie/files/pdf/pipeline/362-JET-A1-PIPELINE.pdf pdf used to go along the old swords road

article from 2009 http://www.herald.ie/news/jet-fuel-pipeline-through-city-plan-is-back-on-table-27935970.html

there was Pre-Application Consultation in 2010 and decided it was not strategic infrastructure http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/PC0088.htm meaning no fast-track to an board pleanala by-passing the local councils

old planning appeal docs from 2000 http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/122692.htm worth a read

http://search.gov.ie/sites/debates.oireachtas.ie/?q=aviation+fuel+pipeline&x=0&y=0

old article from 1999 Anger at plan to run fuel line near houses http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/anger-at-plan-to-run-fuel-line-near-houses-26158631.html
http://www.fingleton.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=12

neris

If it affects clontarf itll receive plenty of anti pipeline airtime on liveline. Personally i wouldnt be that fond of having a fuel pipeline near my house

Gloomtastic!

neris wrote: »

If it affects clontarf itll receive plenty of anti pipeline airtime on liveline. Personally i wouldnt be that fond of having a fuel pipeline near my house

Like a gas pipe? Usually Nimby bull**** from people with nothing better to do with their time.....

conordub

Jist wondering does the regeneration of Dublin port and docks have any impact on clontarf , sorry for been of topic

January

Why do they choose such an indirect routing?

tricky D

Easier to construct along existing roads for ease of access. It's just a pipe as opposed to a tunnel.

hfallada

conordub wrote: »

Jist wondering does the regeneration of Dublin port and docks have any impact on clontarf , sorry for been of topic

I doubt the port will ever be moved.Plus there is no need to regenerate the docks for more housing etc. When most of Dublin 1,3 and 7 need to be flattened to make way for modern housing and office blocks.

expectationlost

conordub wrote: »

Jist wondering does the regeneration of Dublin port and docks have any impact on clontarf , sorry for been of topic

the large extension of the port has been put on the long finger but the redevelopment of the alexander basin (inside the river, rather then facing Clontarf) has an oral hearing on the 8th of october, see https://twitter.com/clontarfIE/status/510710117806116864

crystallamp

The proposed route would be 100 ft from my house. Why shouldn't I want this to happen?

ThisRegard

Do you have gas central heating on your street ?

Avada

I think its a good move to be honest. There isn't any great danger from the pipeline from what I can see. And it will greatly reduce the amount of fuel tankers on the road (which need a fire brigade escort when going through the tunnel afaik!)

BoJack Horseman

Good idea.

Lot of work though.

expectationlost

crystallamp wrote: »

The proposed route would be 100 ft from my house. Why shouldn't I want this to happen?

don't know much about the safety aspect of these things

there summary of the arguements re safety in the old planning appeal http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/122692.htm

anybody have the old third party reports done on it.

Esel

ThisRegard wrote: »

Do you have gas central heating on your street ?

That's gas!

JupiterKid

The proposed pipeline sounds like a good idea in principle. In practice it might be a bit different.

hfallada

JupiterKid wrote: »

The proposed pipeline sounds like a good idea in principle. In practice it might be a bit different.

How would it be different in practice? There is hundreds of thousands of miles of pipelines all over the world with zero issues. An underground pipeline is nearly completely safe. Where as driving tankers of kerosine in the port tunnel is a greater risk

comongethappy

And half the houses in Dublin have jet fuel pipes, with much less protection in their back yards..... They just happen to be using it to heat their houses.

expectationlost

hfallada wrote: »

How would it be different in practice? There is hundreds of thousands of miles of pipelines all over the world with zero issues. An underground pipeline is nearly completely safe. Where as driving tankers of kerosine in the port tunnel is a greater risk

Fuel truck fire in Port Tunnel sparks concern among hauliers -
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fuel-truck-fire-in-port-tunnel-sparks-concern-among-hauliers-26288508.html

Yakuza

I think it's a good idea. Fewer tankers on the roads which is a good thing from safety and traffic perspective. The pipe sounds like it's a fairly solid thing, much more modern than a lot of the existing gas infrastructure I'd say.
Ok, so there will be some inconvenience during the build phase but by the looks of things, no one area is going to be dug up for any great length of time.

expectationlost

Tommy Broughan raised this in the Dail https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2014-10-23a.529&s=speaker%3A42#g533 obviosuly not in favour of it


This kerosene pipeline proposal through densely populated residential districts seems to be a half-baked, ill thought-out, kite-flying exercise by Fingleton White
http://www.thejournal.ie/tommy-broughan-td-madcap-half-baked-dublin-pipeline-1743312-Oct2014/

hfallada

expectationlost wrote: »

Tommy Broughan raised this in the Dail https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2014-10-23a.529&s=speaker%3A42#g533 obviosuly not in favour of it


This kerosene pipeline proposal through densely populated residential districts seems to be a half-baked, ill thought-out, kite-flying exercise by Fingleton White
http://www.thejournal.ie/tommy-broughan-td-madcap-half-baked-dublin-pipeline-1743312-Oct2014/

Of course he isnt keen. Ireland loves infastructure, "as long as its not in my backyard". A pipeline will probably be sunk into the ground. There is zero risk of fire unless its broken and the fuel ignited. With care this is never happen. But a truck over turning and going on fire in the port tunnel is far more likely. If the port Tunnel had a fire, there would be definitely a few deaths or serious injuries, damage to the tunnel. During the time to repair it. Trucks would be on the quays again and the city would be grid locked for a while

Pete_Cavan

expectationlost wrote: »

This kerosene pipeline proposal through densely populated residential districts seems to be a half-baked, ill thought-out, kite-flying exercise by Fingleton White

I think I remember someone flying a half-baked, ill thought-out, gas pipeline not just under residential areas but right into peoples houses kite, Im pretty sure it went nowhere.

April 1667

Planning lodged for this Planning Application Reference: 2552/15 .

Planning notices at various points along Malahide Road put up over the Easter wk end.

The proposed route is crazy and will maximise disruption to residents and commuters.

Surely if it is "safe" to pass peoples front doors it could be routed through the port tunnel which would be a more direct route.

April

hmmm

April 1667 wrote: »

Surely if it is "safe" to pass peoples front doors it could be routed through the port tunnel which would be a more direct route.

You want a pipe full of jet fuel to be routed through a road tunnel?

expectationlost

DUBLIN CITY COUNCIL Fingleton White intend to apply for permission for development of an aviation fuel pipeline from Dublin Port, Dublin 1 to Dublin Airport, Co. Dublin. The route of the pipeline is from proposed inlet station at Team CV Ltd, Bond Drive, Dublin Port, Dublin 1 and via Bond Drive, Tolka Quay Road, East Wall Road, under the Tolka River, Alfie Byrne Road, Clontarf Road, Howth Road, Copeland Avenue, Malahide Road (R107) and R139 (formerly N32). (It then enters Fingal Co. Council administrative area at Clonshaugh Rd. and routes via AUL/FAI sports ground, under the M1 motorway via the DAA Long term Red Carpark, adjacent to Eastlands Car Hire Compound, ALSAA complex, under the Swords Road R132 and via Corballis Road to a reception station at Dublin Airport, Co. Dublin. A separate application is being lodged concurrently with Fingal County Council in respect of the development proposed in its administrative area). The development will consist of (a) single storey Control Building, pumps and ancillary pipework in a fenced compound at Bond Drive, Dublin Port, Dublin 1 (b) a 200mm diameter continuously welded steel pipeline, laid generally in the public road at a depth of circa 1.2m below surface level except where it will pass under the Tolka and Santry Rivers and culverted streams. The length of the pipeline in Dublin City Council administrative area will be circa 11.4 km (total length will be circa 14.4 km.) (c) 2no. above-ground control boxes associated with emergency shut-down valves on the pipeline, at the junction of the Malahide Road R107 and Donnycarney Road and on the R139 (formerly N32) east of the junction with Clonshaugh Road South. The pipeline will be laid in the roadway under the Clontarf Bridge which is a protected structure. An Environmental Impact Statement and Natura Impact Statement have been prepared in respect of the application and will be submitted with the planning application. The Planning Application, Environmental Impact Statement and Natura Impact Statement may be inspected or purchased at a fee not exceeding the reasonable cost of making a copy, at the offices of Dublin City Council, Planning Department, Block 4, Ground Floor, Civic Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8 during its public opening hours (9.00a.m.- 4.30p.m.). A submission or observation in relation to the application may be made in writing to the planning authority on payment of the prescribed fee (20.00) within the period of 5 weeks beginning on the date of receipt by the Authority of the application, and such submissions or observations will be considered by the Planning Authority in making a decision on the application. The Planning Authority may grant permission subject to or without conditions, or may refuse to grant permission.
Posted: 07/04/2015 http://www.loadza.com/notices/all

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/wphappcriteria.display doc are there now 2552/15

Yellowblackbird

jet fuel has a very high ignition point doesn't it?

April 1667

I don't think it should be anywhere in the city to be honest but what is the difference between the tunnel and one of the major commuter routes from the northside to the city centre that is lined with residential, commercial , school and nursing home buildings.

If it is a safety issue in relation to the tunnel surely the safety issue also applies to the proposed route.

Malahide Road is also a QBC.

Transportation by lorry seems to work fine at the moment through the tunnel.

If they want a pipeline why not bring it through Dublin Bay and in through the greenbelt via Portmarnock or the like under the flight path to the airport.

Not comfortable with this.

hmmm

April 1667 wrote: »

I don't think it should be anywhere in the city to be honest but what is the difference between the tunnel and one of the major commuter routes from the northside to the city centre that is lined with residential, commercial , school and nursing home buildings.

Because a tunnel is a confined space. A crash in a tunnel that starts a fire, and you'll have jet fuel pouring out of a pipe adding to people being trapped in a confined space.

Worst case scenario somewhere else is a bit of flame that you can keep away from.

A tunnel to transport this seems an excellent idea - why would you not prefer this over the motorised bombs on wheels that fuel tankers are?

hmmm

April 1667 wrote: »

Not comfortable with this.

Are you also uncomfortable with gas pipes? What about sewerage? Electricity is also highly dangerous and there are lines crisscrossing the whole of the city.

Peregrine

April 1667 wrote: »

I don't think it should be anywhere in the city to be honest but what is the difference between the tunnel and one of the major commuter routes from the northside to the city centre that is lined with residential, commercial , school and nursing home buildings.

It's a tunnel. Surely, it's self explanatory?

April 1667 wrote: »

Not comfortable with this.

Are you comfortable with home heating oil?

wtfdublin

My issue with this is that just last year the Malahide Road from Fairview to Coolock was dug up with new water pipes laid.This caused major disruption at the time.Why couldn't they have timed the work to coincide.Now they will have to dig up the newly laid road again.Unless the pipe they laid last year was not a water pipe?

expectationlost

example of the notice https://twitter.com/ImSomeDad/status/586238209459429376 but he is mistaken that DCC wants this, its Fingleton White that want to do it

wtfdublin

Could they have not run this along side the port tunnel if it's going to be so super safe

Gloomtastic!

I believe they've already started digging/laying the pipe in Fairview Park, they must be pretty confident of it going through .......

Peregrine

wtfdublin wrote: »

Could they have not run this along side the port tunnel if it's going to be so super safe

Who are "they"?

And that was almost 2 decades ago.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I believe they've already started digging/laying the pipe in Fairview Park, they must be pretty confident of it going through .......

Before applying for planning permission? Probably someone else.

John_Rambo

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I believe they've already started digging/laying the pipe in Fairview Park, they must be pretty confident of it going through .......

There's digging going on for a while on the Alfie Byrne road, but they pipes are blue. Not sure, they could have a steel pipe inside them, but they look plastic, and blue.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Like a gas pipe? Usually Nimby bull**** from people with nothing better to do with their time.....

I don't see the amount of protest people were expecting. I guess they thought there'd be lots of Shell To Sea crackpot antics. Funny, how, in such a more populated area there isn't as much doom, gloom and horror.

artanevilla

Kerosene, ie, jetfuel, won't burn in it's liquid state, it only ignites when it is a vapour and even then it has a high flash point. Gas pipes are a hell of a lot more dangerous and I'd say even sewerage pipes have more chance of igniting.

expectationlost

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/wphappcriteria.display docs are there now ref 2552/15

expectationlost

Concerns over aviation fuel pipeline plan http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=4869&l=100
variation politicians comments

website for it at www.aviationfuelpipeline.ie easier way to see details

gctest50

wtfdublin wrote: »

Could they have not run this along side the port tunnel if it's going to be so super safe

huge system in the UK for years :

expectationlost

Nearfm: Pat Meehan talks to Tommy Broughan about the proposed Aviation Fuel Pipeline which if goes ahead will run trough residential areas of North Dublin on Near fm’s Northside Today. http://nearfm.ie/podcast/?p=15474

hmmm, really needs to nail his facts, bit of waffle.

first decision due june 2nd

this is in fingal too

confused now whether aviation fuel trucks do go through tunnel or not.

expectationlost

Controversial airport fuel pipeline clears its first hurdle with Fingal council http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/controversial-airport-fuel-pipeline-clears-its-first-hurdle-with-council-31279524.html

They have also told the local councils that the transportation of petroleum products by tanker along busy commuter roads raises a number of health and safety issues. They point to a UK study which concluded "that the operation of the proposed pipeline has a significantly lower level of risk".

Permission for Aviation fuel pipeline from Dublin Port to Dublin Airport. Granted http://fingalcoco.ie/media/F15A-0141.pdf

http://www.fingal.ie/planning-and-buildings/apply-or-search-for-a-planning-application/search-planning-applications-online/searchplanningapplicationsonline/ Ref F15A/0141

5 objections 4 from people who live on the route in Fingal and Thomas Broughan's objection on behalf of resident in Dulin Bay North
http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00493482.pdf


https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2015-05-13a.515&s=aviation+fuel+pipeline#g801

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent) Does the Taoiseach share my major concerns and the major concerns of the residents of Clontarf, Clontarf Road, Copeland Avenue and the Malahide Road about the proposed aviation fuel pipeline going from the Dublin docks to the airport? There are major public safety concerns and there is also the issue of loss of jobs to truck drivers in that industry. Will the Taoiseach convey my serious public safety concerns to the relevant authorities, Dublin City Council and the planning authorities? I raise this matter under the Dublin Docklands Development Authority Bill.

Enda Kenny (Taoiseach, Department of An Taoiseach; Mayo, Fine Gael)

The Dublin Docklands Development Authority Bill was cleared last week. Deputy Bruton has apprised me of some of the concerns in respect of the proposition mentioned by Deputy McGrath, but it is not listed for legislation.

Bruton bends the boss's ear.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2015-02-10a.439&s=aviation+fuel+pipeline#g469 Tuesday, 10 February 2015 Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport and Communications DAA: Chairman Designate

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Independent) I, too, congratulate Mr. Ó Ríordáin on his reappointment and wish him well. In regard to the proposal for an aviation fuel pipeline to connect Dublin Port with the airport, is the planning application ready for submission and what are Mr. Ó Ríordáin's views on the proposal? What benefits will the pipeline bring and has DAA identified any safety concerns in regard to it? It will take a number of trucks off the road, but they already use the Dublin Port tunnel. I understand similar plans were drawn up several years ago but they were ultimately shelved because the route was very controversial in that the pipeline would pass through residential areas

and Terence asks questions the new DAA isn't briefed on, they never are at these things

Uriel.

Why is it coined as "controversial"? I really hate people sometimes. They'd complain about anything. It's almost like a profession these days.

expectationlost

from the Northside People a few weeks back, just got round to scanning it

you think he might look up about gas installation in coolock before putting it in an ad?

SEPT 23 1989

surely its more dangerous to the public hauling the stuff on the public roads

Atlantic Dawn

Great progress to have the pipeline approved, much safer to have all the trucks off the roads from a road safety and pollution point of view. The very politicians moaning about the pipeline are those that encouraged domestic gas pipelines which are much more of a safety concern if ruptured.

expectationlost

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Great progress to have the pipeline approved, much safer to have all the trucks off the roads from a road safety and pollution point of view. The very politicians moaning about the pipeline are those that encouraged domestic gas pipelines which are much more of a safety concern if ruptured.

approved in Fingal only so far, Dublin City to come.

expectationlost

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=2552/15&theTabNo=2&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=2565497%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=3089796%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=APNID%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=2565497%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

Planning Docs Ref 2552/15 Additional Information

eg 10. The applicant is requested to consider providing a comparative risk study between the subject proposal and the recently constructed East Wall Road –Coolock gas line (as also noted by the NRA) and also any similar aviation fuel pipes with the UK etc.

11. Further to the requests above the applicant is requested to clarify and or update the EIS as follows: a) To note that a small portion of open space lands are traversed near the Tolka Bridge. b) To reflect latest published airport travel figures and any related projections for Dublin Airport. c) To indicate any net jobs benefit between jobs created by the proposal and potential loss of jobs from reduced road tanker transportation of aviation fuel etc. d) Details and profile of current road tanker transportation in relation to traffic flows across the day i.e. does the majority of movements take place after the evening rush hour etc. e) To clarify the level of any operational emissions from pumping activity. f) Correct Section 9 chapter of the main EIS Volume in terms of the header misreference to ‘Section 8’. g) Reprint page 36 of the main EIS volume

Directive 1. The Roads & Traffic Planning Division note that National Transport Authority (NTA) have concerns
Directive 10. The applicant is requested to consider providing a comparative risk study between the subject
Directive 11. Further to the requests above the applicant is requested to clarify and or update the EIS as follows:
Directive 2. The applicant is requested to address the concerns of the National Roads Authority(NRA) who are of
Directive 3. It is also noted that the site is near a road scheme objective in the Development Plan for the proposed
Directive 4. The Environmental Health Officer for Air Quality Monitoring & Noise Control(EHO) notes that further detail
Directive 5. DCCs Drainage Division notes that the submission does not highlight the crossing and importance of the
Directive 6. DCCs Waste Management Division while recommending conditions also notes that the EIS does not
Directive 7. It is noted that under the previous An Bord Pleanala permission there were a number of conditions
Directive 8. The applicant is requested to assess the need for additional Block Valves along the route with regard to
Directive 9. The applicant is requested to clarify estimated set backs from residential frontages along the route i.e.

looks like the NRA is going keep em on their toes.

29-May-2015 Fingal County Council granted permission. http://www.fingal.ie/planning-and-buildings/apply-or-search-for-a-planning-application/search-planning-applications-online/searchplanningapplicationsonline/ Ref F15A/0141 with conditions.

expectationlost

PA 2552/15 http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=2552/15&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=2670023%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=3210466%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=APNID%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=2670023%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

Decision: GRANT PERMISSION

Decision Date: 15-Oct-2015
Type Short Desc
Condition 10. Copies of reports detailing site investigations carried out shall be forwarded to the Geological Survey of Ireland for their record.
Condition 12. A Hazardous/contaminated Soil Management Plan shall be submitted for the written agreement of the planning authority prior to commencement of any works
Condition 13. A Noise Management Plan relating to the construction, operational and decommissioning phases of the project shall be submitted for the written agreement
Condition 14. Prior to commencement of any works on site the applicant shall agree working hours with the planning authority, with any extension to agreed workings to be
Condition 4. This planning permission is granted for a limited period of 10 years from the date of this grant.
Condition 5. The requirements of DCC’s Roads & Traffic Planning Division shall be undertaken as follows:
Condition 6. Prior to commencement of any works on site the applicant shall ascertain the requirements of Iarnrod Eireann including the obtainment of wayleave agreements.
Condition 7. The requirements of DCC’s Drainage Division shall be undertaken as follows:
Condition 8.The requirements of DCC’s Bio-Diversity Officer shall be undertaken as follows:
Condition 9. Archaeology
Condition 1. Standard Permission Condition including Further Information (Please insert date)
Condition 15. C370 Street Cleaning during Demolition and Construction
Condition 11. C660 Construction and Demolition Projects (larger projects)
Condition 2. Section 48 Development Contribution.
Condition C840 Section 49 LUAS C1 Development Contribution

granted permission with conditions


tommy broughan TD talks about international standard for setback distance but doesnt' say what it is http://www.tommybroughan.com/broughan-criticises-council-green-light-for-half-baked-aviation-fuel-pipeline-plan/

Stinicker

What sort of incompetent people in charge didn't include this with the Dublin port tunnel a few years ago?

expectationlost

Stinicker wrote: »

What sort of incompetent people in charge didn't include this with the Dublin port tunnel a few years ago?

theres nobody in charge of it