Hinge and hold chipping method

Danny dyers double

Came across a video on this by pure chance a few nights ago . Now chipping is the worst part of my game it's something I really struggle with so I taught I'd try this and see how it felt .

So spent an hour or so out the back garden chipping of a mat as we have no grass in our garden , So got out for 7 holes after work today to put this to the test .

Long story short iv never chipped the ball as well . And after the first couple I was full of confidence over them . And stayed for a half hour afterwards on the chipping green cause it was a great feeling to be able to chip the ball and it go to where it was told .

Hopefully this helps in getting my HC down because I feel the rest of my game is better then my 21 HC suggests if that makes sense .

I just started this thread to find out do many of you guys use this method and if anyone tried it and didn't take to it . To me it's so much easier to chip the ball .

Barnaboy

Do you have a link to the video?

GreeBo

Danny dyers double wrote: »

Came across a video on this by pure chance a few nights ago . Now chipping is the worst part of my game it's something I really struggle with so I taught I'd try this and see how it felt .

So spent an hour or so out the back garden chipping of a mat as we have no grass in our garden , So got out for 7 holes after work today to put this to the test .

Long story short iv never chipped the ball as well . And after the first couple I was full of confidence over them . And stayed for a half hour afterwards on the chipping green cause it was a great feeling to be able to chip the ball and it go to where it was told .

Hopefully this helps in getting my HC down because I feel the rest of my game is better then my 21 HC suggests if that makes sense .

I just started this thread to find out do many of you guys use this method and if anyone tried it and didn't take to it . To me it's so much easier to chip the ball .

As long as you have the first bolded part the second bolded part is easy, using any old method at all.

For me short game is all about find something that works, when it stops find another method. Anything to keep the confidence up.

I pretty much hold the same hinge from setup rather than hinge on the way back, as long as I keep the right right firm it all usually works out well. Striking the ball properly consistently means you can start to build feel, same as putting.

Enjoy your up and downs!

rrpc

Barnaboy wrote: »

Do you have a link to the video?

The chipmeister himself explains it here:

BoardsMember

Thanks for the post OP I have a mare with chipping confidence so look forward to trying this next season!!

Boskowski

I'd say whats probably happening is that you actually just pull through with a flat left wrist and without 'flicking' the hands over at the ball?

Rikand

Played 3 holes this morning and tried it out.

I'm definitely adding this to my arsenal for certain chip shots! Serious results on flat and anywhere within 10 yards from the green kind of chips. Might not chance the same for strong uphill/downhill though. We'll see

GreeBo

Same works for all shots, uphill use a lower loft downhill use more.

Rikand

GreeBo wrote: »

Same works for all shots, uphill use a lower loft downhill use more.

Oh yes. Meant more that I might not chance it in tomorrows comp till im used to it lol

Danny dyers double

Seems to be good feedback anyway so glad I posted it .

whizbang

I believe a lot of the good results from this method are due to the much later contact with the ball.
ie. the body has more time to get set in position first.

Another plus is you can use the slowness of your body movement to control the clubhead speed for a short chip

The_Kew_Tour

Chipping and pitching is part in f the game I struggle with.

Its a area the pros make it look easy though.

Must give this a go.

John Divney

I stopped using it as hinging is just adding extra difficulty and margin for error due to the steepness caused by hinging on chips.

Here's a counter method that I found way more consistent

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0e8-4MLEfaw

Rikand

Tried this today in comp 5 times and all 5 achieved acceptable or better than expected results.

I proclaim this to be a gigantic success!

clouter

Any link for this method, the link above doesnt seem to work for me.

Looking for all the help I can get right now!!!

Miley Byrne

clouter wrote: »

Any link for this method, the link above doesnt seem to work for me.

Looking for all the help I can get right now!!!

Phil Mickelson has a good few videos on youtube explaining how to use the hinge & hold.

Rikand

denisoc16 wrote: »

Phil Mickelson has a good few videos on youtube explaining how to use the hinge & hold.

Just checked that out - turns out I was doing things slightly differently.

But I dont care, it works

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Chipping and pitching is part in f the game I struggle with.

Its a area the pros make it look easy though.

Must give this a go.

Main thing I see is mid-high handicappers just completely misunderstanding how the swing needs to work.

I'm sure we have all seen it, or probably you might do it yourself.

This big mad backswing, and then just no follow through. I'll never understand it. Short backswing, accelerate into the ball, follow through, nearly pointing your wedge to the target. Not cutting accross it (that old "cut accross the ball" is an absolutely disgusting recommendation to players)

Keeping acceleration into contact, and following through are so important.

I'd a shortgame lesson last week. Pro said I hadn't got much wrong, just need to load more weight onto my left side, and bring the grip more to my left thigh. I was also keeping the plane from my longirons which was why I wasn't nipping the ball. So I'm getting it on a more straight pendulum.

While I left after 12 yesterday due to having the shanks, my chipping around the green was lovely. There was check, it was controlled, and even ones that weren't great distance control wise, I stil lwas past the pin, and had a very makeable putt. I made all my up and downs yesterday, which is a big improvement.

First lesson I ever paid for and have to say, total worth.

Dealerz

TheDoc wrote: »

Main thing I see is mid-high handicappers just completely misunderstanding how the swing needs to work.

I'm sure we have all seen it, or probably you might do it yourself.

This big mad backswing, and then just no follow through. I'll never understand it. Short backswing, accelerate into the ball, follow through, nearly pointing your wedge to the target. Not cutting accross it (that old "cut accross the ball" is an absolutely disgusting recommendation to players)

Keeping acceleration into contact, and following through are so important.

I'd a shortgame lesson last week. Pro said I hadn't got much wrong, just need to load more weight onto my left side, and bring the grip more to my left thigh. I was also keeping the plane from my longirons which was why I wasn't nipping the ball. So I'm getting it on a more straight pendulum.

While I left after 12 yesterday due to having the shanks, my chipping around the green was lovely. There was check, it was controlled, and even ones that weren't great distance control wise, I stil lwas past the pin, and had a very makeable putt. I made all my up and downs yesterday, which is a big improvement.

First lesson I ever paid for and have to say, total worth.

Was that with Krishna?

SaveOurLyric

Where have you been guys:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Secrets-Short-Game-Phil-Mickelson/dp/0061860921/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410780356&sr=8-1&keywords=phil+mickelson

Highly recommended. Pure hinge and hold.

John Divney

A bit of a caveat for doing what Phil does, is he has the most gifted hands on tour, and has great timing, his whole swing is based on good timing.

Dumping the hinge into the ball is not simplest and fool proof way to chip.

It also isn't the best way to maximise spin.


The flatter the path, the less margin for error, the more time the ball is on the clubface, and the more spin.

Think u not v for less chunk skulls and leading edge sticking. Also bounce is a godsend.

Hinging is a tool for distance, shorter chips do not need it, longer ones slight but not an active straight up cock of the wrists

BoardsMember

Excellent. So now we have two pretty opposite approaches. We have big Phil telling us there is only one way to chip, and then another school of thought that says pretty much to do the opposite. Just what the struggling chipper needs when going to practice!!

GreeBo

BoardsMember wrote: »

Excellent. So now we have two pretty opposite approaches. We have big Phil telling us there is only one way to chip, and then another school of thought that says pretty much to do the opposite. Just what the struggling chipper needs when going to practice!!

Unhinging is another movement that needs to be timed as mistiming (flipping) is a disaster.

You can chip perfectly well by holding the hinge through impact.

John Divney

Some more info Golfwrx thread, lively discussion on the flatter method.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/926403-the-wizard-short-game-technique-videosmerged/

The positives are if you make contact behind the ball, the ball still travels the same distance, with roll out, rather than the higher trajectory softer landing of a better contact.

It's going to save you way more shots on the long run.

You should use a 54-60 wedge with 10 or more bounce.

John Divney

GreeBo wrote: »

Unhinging is another movement that needs to be timed as mistiming (flipping) is a disaster.

You can chip perfectly well by holding the hinge through impact.

Of course you can, the question is whether it's the best method, it has a bigger margin of error because the club has to unhinge near the ball.

Every method of chipping works when you are accurate, but chipping off the back foot, straight faced and hinged has loads of negatives.

lorenzo87

Chipping is all about feel and practise, there are many effective methods.
For me, weight on my left side, hands forward, and don't be afraid to follow through.
The problem with most higher handicappers is the fear of a shank, which normally leads to a shank. You need to remain relaxed, picture the shot, and just let your hands flow, keep them loose. I also see far too many people using a sand wedge for 40 yard - 50 yard chips. Whenever you get the chance, play the %'s. Every time I have a chance to hit a low chip and run, I do. My 9 iron is my favourite chipping club these days. Even if you don't hit it properly, the ball will still travel. I only chip high if I am forced into it.

GreeBo

John Divney wrote: »

Of course you can, the question is whether it's the best method, it has a bigger margin of error because the club has to unhinge near the ball.

Every method of chipping works when you are accurate, but chipping off the back foot, straight faced and hinged has loads of negatives.

You don't have to be off the back foot, but what are the negatives that you perceive?

"Best" method is arguable, I'd vote for the one thats most consistent.

John Divney

GreeBo wrote: »

You don't have to be off the back foot, but what are the negatives that you perceive?

"Best" method is arguable, I'd vote for the one thats most consistent.

The clubface has a steep path and if this is missed by a bit the result is a disaster, you can easily hit fat and skull it especially when on a tight lie and a bit apprehensive.

It is good out of the rough to hit into the ball fair enough.


Why the need for a hinge when you don't' need to be steep for any reason on a chip shot.

Great for Phil who likes the feel of it and does it a million times a week, but why would a once a week amateur want to use it when rusty and on a tight lie first thing in the morning.

TheDoc

Dealerz wrote: »

Was that with Krishna?

Yup it was indeed.

I've had a very checkered and disastrous past with coaches as a teen, and am always skeptical of coaches. But have to say came away feeling I understood "the short game" a lot better, and felt a lot better yesterday with my shortgame. Trick now is I guess keep with it and don't get shaken from it when I have a bad game.

TheDoc

BoardsMember wrote: »

Excellent. So now we have two pretty opposite approaches. We have big Phil telling us there is only one way to chip, and then another school of thought that says pretty much to do the opposite. Just what the struggling chipper needs when going to practice!!

Tell me about it. I have gone through so many different methods and ideas, swings and the likes. All of it works for a bit then when it starts to drop off I look for something else.

I guess the driver behind getting this lesson was to get a base, that I could stick with through thick and thin and build some expertise and experience around. I wasn't far off, but little tweaks and a better understanding is hopefully going to help me big time.

A big problem with me was deciding on a type of shot for the sitaution. A downside to having that sort of "arsenal" of shots around the green ,is that you can choose the wrong one at the wrong time. And a big part of the type of shot I'd play was confidence based.

TheDoc

John Divney wrote: »

The clubface has a steep path and if this is missed by a bit the result is a disaster, you can easily hit fat and skull it especially when on a tight lie and a bit apprehensive.

It is good out of the rough to hit into the ball fair enough.


Why the need for a hinge when you don't' need to be steep for any reason on a chip shot.

Great for Phil who likes the feel of it and does it a million times a week, but why would a once a week amateur want to use it when rusty and on a tight lie first thing in the morning.

I guess you could argue, why are amateurs using wedges at all around the green.

A big part of why I use my wedges is that I just like the look, feel and contact of a good wedge shot. But in reality, on my greens anyway, if you miss the green and are around the rough or fringe, 9 times out of 10 bump and running a 9iron or 7iron is going to do the trick.

I don't think amateurs should be assosiating with anything professionals do.

While you can do a multitude of "things" with a wedge, the ideal purpose is that it's a club that lets you accelerate into the ball, and generate "check".

In reality, that is a tough enough thing to manage for the club golfer, I know I struggle big time, and barely every get check. But it begs the question why do club golfers persist with wegdes around greens, when bump and running irons is a much better percentage shot, and easier to do.

As a teenage golfer carrying four wedges I used to always get the old heads telling me I was mad and that I should be bumping irons into pins around the green. Nowdays, I'd say if you were doing that you'd be looked at like a total weirdo. I rarely see anyone bump a 7 iron into a pin while off the green.

BoardsMember

TheDoc wrote: »

Tell me about it. I have gone through so many different methods and ideas, swings and the likes. All of it works for a bit then when it starts to drop off I look for something else.

I guess the driver behind getting this lesson was to get a base, that I could stick with through thick and thin and build some expertise and experience around. I wasn't far off, but little tweaks and a better understanding is hopefully going to help me big time.

A big problem with me was deciding on a type of shot for the sitaution. A downside to having that sort of "arsenal" of shots around the green ,is that you can choose the wrong one at the wrong time. And a big part of the type of shot I'd play was confidence based.

So who is this "Krishna" you speak of. I am pretty much self taught, or father taught, so sound a bit like you...in that I need a base, a starting point I know is right, then I will go off a personalise it. If I can get a couple of pointers of positive things to implement, rather than negative things not to do, I think I will be good. PM/post the info of your tutor, if you don't mind.

TheDoc

BoardsMember wrote: »

So who is this "Krishna" you speak of. I am pretty much self taught, or father taught, so sound a bit like you...in that I need a base, a starting point I know is right, then I will go off a personalise it. If I can get a couple of pointers of positive things to implement, rather than negative things not to do, I think I will be good. PM/post the info of your tutor, if you don't mind.

haha you make it sound like he is the second coming !

He is the pro on my club, Hollywoodlakes. Although I had read online good reports from people based on experiences. There was a website I forget the name off but basically you could find PGA coaches in your area, and people could leave reviews, he was pretty much raved about. And I remember some low handicappers here mentioning they had great experiences, particularlly his shortgame lessons.

Suprised we don't have a thread with recommendations for coaches or club pro's, sound like a logical thing we should have considering how many people enquire about lessons, but also how many posters here would push lessons before equipement. (Which is a fair point).

And yes, I'm very much self taught. Father taught me the basics and then with the advent of youtube started finding tidbits on there. I had coaches throughout my teens when I was playing off six, and didn't fall out with them ( bar one) but found it too complicated and they wanted to strip me down and rebuild things enitrely, rather then build on what I think is a solid base(obviously thats open for debate haha)

GreeBo

John Divney wrote: »

The clubface has a steep path and if this is missed by a bit the result is a disaster, you can easily hit fat and skull it especially when on a tight lie and a bit apprehensive.

It is good out of the rough to hit into the ball fair enough.


Why the need for a hinge when you don't' need to be steep for any reason on a chip shot.

Great for Phil who likes the feel of it and does it a million times a week, but why would a once a week amateur want to use it when rusty and on a tight lie first thing in the morning.

I don't think it has to be steep though, off the back foot maybe, but normal ball position slight hinge doesn't mean its a steep path.

The hinge (note that I don't hinge on the back swing, I'm "hinged" at setup)

I dont think hinging adds any risk, unhinging however very much does.

John Divney

It still has a release to a bottom point, that is well bellow the ball, the club wants to straighten out and does so into the ground, taking various depth scrapes depending in where the ball is.

There is no active release I agree, but the clubhead does release steeply at the end.

I wouldn't change anything if it worked personally, but a lot of players struggle with that Phil Mickleson DVD.

This is an alternative that has less risk and can take away shanking, fat and skull shots, still allowing for margins of error and poor strikes to not result in a disaster.

Some people will not like it, playing all chips off the front foot and no pivot in the chip.

TheDoc

I think what we all want to see here are videos of posters chipping, make it happen

TheDoc

John Divney wrote: »

It still has a release to a bottom point, that is well bellow the ball, the club wants to straighten out and does so into the ground, taking various depth scrapes depending in where the ball is.

There is no active release I agree, but the clubhead does release steeply at the end.

I wouldn't change anything if it worked personally, but a lot of players struggle with that Phil Mickleson DVD.

Probably the last person I'd look at for shortgame tips. Very unorthodox and uses a lot of loft, and much bigger swing then most.

It's like teaching a child how to take a free kick like Ronaldo, rather then saw Beckham. Both really good at it, but one is majorly unorthodox to learn and takes outrageous time investment to work. And has arguable benefits over the other.

GreeBo

John Divney wrote: »

It still has a release to a bottom point, that is well bellow the ball, the club wants to straighten out and does so into the ground, taking various depth scrapes depending in where the ball is.

There is no active release I agree, but the clubhead does release steeply at the end.

I wouldn't change anything if it worked personally, but a lot of players struggle with that Phil Mickleson DVD.

This is an alternative that has less risk and can take away shanking, fat and skull shots, still allowing for margins of error and poor strikes to not result in a disaster.

Some people will not like it, playing all chips off the front foot and no pivot in the chip.

Maybe we are talking about different shots...I don't have any release on chips or at least not until long after the ball has gone and the club is rising above the ground.

If you are discussing the Mickelson version specifically (where you unrelease into the ball) then I agree totally, but Im talking about hinge and *hold*.

FixdePitchmark

I think the Doc is right there.

I've tried both - 9 iron and s/w .

I don't practice enough to use a s/w - a 9 iron is a way safer shot.

I can do both - but way too many lads trying to be phil out there with their 62 and 64 - mad stuff.

May give this a go for the laugh - it is a hard concept to get the idea of the bounce hitting ground right.

But back to above - it is all just practice. But simple ideas - versus flop shots.

(unless you are at a serious level of golf) - this is nice and simple so good idea for most.

John Divney

GreeBo wrote: »

Maybe we are talking about different shots...I don't have any release on chips or at least not until long after the ball has gone and the club is rising above the ground.

If you are discussing the Mickelson version specifically (where you unrelease into the ball) then I agree totally, but Im talking about hinge and *hold*.

I say release, I should say path, the club does release from the force of the pivot, the body turn and stiff wrists stop it from fully releasing, but it does steepen the path in this motion when the handle of the club a close to the body. The aoa is descending.

The technique of h & h is easy, but the margins are smaller as you have to hit perfect timing with the pivot

GreeBo

John Divney wrote: »

I say release, I should say path, the club does release from the force of the pivot, the body turn and stiff wrists stop it from fully releasing, but it does steepen the path in this motion when the handle of the club a close to the body. The aoa is descending.

The technique of h & h is easy, but the margins are smaller as you have to hit perfect timing with the pivot

What is a technique with less margin for error?
I setup with hands ahead and rock shoulders, it's pretty foolproof, putting stroke really.

agusta

GreeBo wrote: »

What is a technique with less margin for error?
I setup with hands ahead and rock shoulders, it's pretty foolproof, putting stroke really.

This is it for me, its all in the sternum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDLpAOTILvk

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/proshop/features/chip_pitch_splash.html

My local pga pro teaches the same principal

whizbang

Amazing, I haven't come across any others mentioning the sternum positioning.

Makes great sense to me.

agusta

whizbang wrote: »

Amazing, I haven't come across any others mentioning the sternum positioning.

Makes great sense to me.

It can be hard to get set up like this and also to stop your sternum moving back through the chip shot but once you get it you have it.
leadbetter has talked about chipping like this too http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/short-game/chipping/leadbetter_gd0611

GreeBo

whizbang wrote: »

Amazing, I haven't come across any others mentioning the sternum positioning.

Makes great sense to me.

A great test for this is chipping with your eyes closed.
It helps you find your natural ball position and ensure that you are just turning and not swaying etc.
Maybe on to try in the back garden first though

BoardsMember

GreeBo wrote: »

A great test for this is chipping with your eyes closed.
It helps you find your natural ball position and ensure that you are just turning and not swaying etc.
Maybe on to try in the back garden first though

Very good piece of advice. And not just for chipping, for putting, for driver etc. It's amazing how much extra information related to balance & rhythm you get with your eyes closed.

charlieIRL

GreeBo wrote: »

A great test for this is chipping with your eyes closed.

I always do this when i'm chipping onto a green over a bunker. Works every time.

slave1

Hands up, I used to be a great chipper around the green before I gave up the game for a few years and never really got back to the level I previously enjoyed.
Tried this today in Galway Bay, excellent results, found you really need to commit though and accelerate at impact, happy days!

BoardsMember

slave1 wrote: »

Hands up, I used to be a great chipper around the green before I gave up the game for a few years and never really got back to the level I previously enjoyed.
Tried this today in Galway Bay, excellent results, found you really need to commit though and accelerate at impact, happy days!

Which approach?

slave1

BoardsMember wrote: »

Which approach?

Hinge n hold