Round balers

Reggie.

Here's the score. Have this thought of getting a round baler at some stage in the future.

just was asked by a few lads this year that I was square baling for that would i not consider getting a round baler as they seem to be in short supply when the pressure is on or the hay weather is in.

would consider spending around 6k but could go more for the right machine. It wouldn't really need to be a chopper either as if I go ahead it's main work would be straw and hay with the odd bit of our own silage.

What one would best suit a massey 398 or am I out of my mind.

Was thinking of either a welger 200 or 220.
Claas 46 or 250

Greengrass1

Reggie. wrote: »

Here's the score. Have this thought of getting a round baler at some stage in the future.

just was asked by a few lads this year that I was square baling for that would i not consider getting a round baler as they seem to be in short supply when the pressure is on or the hay weather is in.

would consider spending around 6k but could go more for the right machine. It wouldn't really need to be a chopper either as if I go ahead it's main work would be straw and hay with the odd bit of our own silage.

What one would best suit a massey 398 or am I out of my mind.

Was thinking of either a welger 200 or 220.
Claas 46 or 250

Buy a chopper is all I say. Its easy drop thr knives.
You will do yourself out of work and br kicking yourself then

Reggie.

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Buy a chopper is all I say. Its easy drop thr knives.
You will do yourself out of work and br kicking yourself then

Fair point

Greengrass1

Reggie. wrote: »

Fair point

Oirt roundpack is easy driven. 90hp is as low as ye can go. Bit noisey compared to rollers though

emaherx

Reggie. wrote: »

Fair point

Think a chopper baler would be hard to drive with a 698. Class 46 standard baler would suit that tractor just fine. Loads of them come up for sale on done deal.

I use one myself with a 698T. Even with the turbo I wouldn't be in a hurry for the chopper model.

Reggie.

emaherx wrote: »

Think a chopper baler would be hard to drive with a 698. Class 46 standard baler would suit that tractor just fine. Loads of them come up for sale on done deal.

I use one myself with a 698T. Even with the turbo I wouldn't be in a hurry for the chopper model.

Was thinking the 398 might not have savage power alright. Notice a neighbour uses a Claas 46 with the wide pickup

Zr105

Friends of mine driving a 46 chopper with 4cyl dx duetz not a bother on it, dont think they're doing the silage with it tho.

Go chopper mainly because you'll have wide pick up and the rotor is a beast to take stuff in compared to a baler with out it.

Realistically id think for the money you'd be better sticking with the 46 or a welger 200 as the newer models at that money would probably be fairly well worn... Its hard to know really, one or 2 things that may seem minor can add up to a lot on them,

Net wrap would be one thing that i would say is a must to! Faster tying and neater bales! Probably works out a tad more expensive than string(couldn't tell you as id never even think about doing the maths, it's not worth it) but so much handier!

Reggie.

Zr105 wrote: »

Friends of mine driving a 46 chopper with 4cyl dx duetz not a bother on it, dont think they're doing the silage with it tho.

Go chopper mainly because you'll have wide pick up and the rotor is a beast to take stuff in compared to a baler with out it.

Realistically id think for the money you'd be better sticking with the 46 or a welger 200 as the newer models at that money would probably be fairly well worn... Its hard to know really, one or 2 things that may seem minor can add up to a lot on them,

Net wrap would be one thing that i would say is a must to! Faster tying and neater bales! Probably works out a tad more expensive than string(couldn't tell you as id never even think about doing the maths, it's not worth it) but so much handier!

Net would be a must. You mention small things can add up to a bit. That is my main worry about getting one. Are they as expensive to run as they seem

Zr105

Reggie. wrote: »

Net would be a must. You mention small things can add up to a bit. That is my main worry about getting one. Are they as expensive to run as they seem

The biggest thing would be the chains, you'd want to either know they have been changed or study them very carefully, there a lot of money, depends on which chain ect but could be north of 5-600 for the main drive chain, and there's normally 3 chains on most balers now, well actually 5 if you addd the pick up chains.

Then its more stuff like bearings going, not expensive if you can sort it out yourself but very time consuming, and not the best if you've 20 acres still to bale, also if one side goes you might as well do the other side whilst your at it...

Their not that bad i suppose but as will all things they'll never break till your using it...

Oh yeah on class balers there's the valve that keeps pressure on the door, a lot of them you will have to tap the spool an odd time to keep the pressure up, but if it wont keep pressure its a new valve and thats rocket money.... The welger has a door latch system so no worries there

Reggie.

Zr105 wrote: »

The biggest thing would be the chains, you'd want to either know they have been changed or study them very carefully, there a lot of money, depends on which chain ect but could be north of 5-600 for the main drive chain, and there's normally 3 chains on most balers now, well actually 5 if you addd the pick up chains.

Then its more stuff like bearings going, not expensive if you can sort it out yourself but very time consuming, and not the best if you've 20 acres still to bale, also if one side goes you might as well do the other side whilst your at it...

Their not that bad i suppose but as will all things they'll never break till your using it...

Oh yeah on class balers there's the valve that keeps pressure on the door, a lot of them you will have to tap the spool an odd time to keep the pressure up, but if it wont keep pressure its a new valve and thats rocket money.... The welger has a door latch system so no worries there

Knew of the chains and rollers alright. Seem a good bit more complicated than the small square tbh. It's a gamble I suppose. You would really only get caught out the once tho with each part I'm guessing as they should last a few years after replacement

Zr105

Reggie. wrote: »

Knew of the chains and rollers alright. Seem a good bit more complicated than the small square tbh. It's a gamble I suppose. You would really only get caught out the once tho with each part I'm guessing as they should last a few years after replacement

Ah yeah once done you should be good for a lot of work, think its chains around 40k but I'm not over sure on that, and it would depend the sort if work its doing...

Ah their not that complicated really, just a matter of making sure the chains are running the right way around the cogs and make sure the joiner clips are the right way! Would rather work on a round than sq baler knotters

Reggie.

Zr105 wrote: »

Ah yeah once done you should be good for a lot of work, think its chains around 40k but I'm not over sure on that, and it would depend the sort if work its doing...

Ah their not that complicated really, just a matter of making sure the chains are running the right way around the cogs and make sure the joiner clips are the right way! Would rather work on a round than sq baler knotters

If the knotters go on the square it's the scrap for her

Zr105

Reggie. wrote: »

If the knotters go on the square it's the scrap for her

Ah you'll work them out eventually the lads that know the art form of setting and timing them fully are getting scarce tho...

Reggie.

Zr105 wrote: »

Ah you'll work them out eventually the lads that know the art form of setting and timing them fully are getting scarce tho...

I'm lucky to have a fella up the road who is very good with the squares. It Def is a dying art form. Including lads willing to bale with one.

bogman_bass

Reggie. wrote: »

just was asked by a few lads this year that I was square baling for that would i not consider getting a round baler as they seem to be in short supply when the pressure is on or the hay weather is in.

The thing I'd be asking is would these lads only call you when they couldn't get their usual lad or will you get the work year in/year out?

Greengrass1

bogman_bass wrote: »

The thing I'd be asking is would these lads only call you when they couldn't get their usual lad or will you get the work year in/year out?

It'll be slow picking up lads but ye might pick up one or two every yr. Lads might be in a hurry to get stuff baled and there usual contractor might be up to there eyes in work. And then the neighbours might want to get ye going and give ye the work

Reggie.

bogman_bass wrote: »

The thing I'd be asking is would these lads only call you when they couldn't get their usual lad or will you get the work year in/year out?

That's the issue too. Know a few who would rather me as I take my time and don't over book each day so I'm not racing around the fields on them. Be slow starting off but closest baler to my area is about 5 miles away and that man only has one.

Reggie.

Greengrass1 wrote: »

It'll be slow picking up lads but ye might pick up one or two every yr. Lads might be in a hurry to get stuff baled and there usual contractor might be up to there eyes in work. And then the neighbours might want to get ye going and give ye the work

I know it might sound counter productive but I wouldn't be too pushed on being flat out all summer. A few steady jobs and as us always the case the mad rush with hay. I had lads ringing me to travel a good 14 miles to square bale this summer

dzer2

Ah Reggie a round baler is very simple a few chains, bearings and rollers and a good driver and you are off to make loads of money. When looking a one, look at the sprockets that the chains run on, the teeth should protrude through the chain and look semi circle like. Check the rollers for rust, dimples and dents. Look at the towing eye make sure its not oblong or badly worn, sure sign of loads of work done.
The bearings are very hard to judge, all you can do is run the baler at around 2k revs and listen to then creaking and groaning not a good sign. Check that the sprockets are fitted correctly to the shafts and all have keys fitted.

I would go for a worn one and pay appropriately for it and do it up over the winter then you know you are good to go.

The claas have a valve for keeping the door closed it also lets you know when the bale is full. I have a 44s here 22yrs and have never changed it. But the claas spares are expensive and you really need to source 2nd hand parts. As for net wrap it provides neat bales and is slightly faster than twine but the weight could be a factor in wet yrs and coolish ground. In 11 & 12 I got a lot of work with me old claas as a lot of the newer bales were too heavy with the choppers and net equipment.

As for square baler knotters they a thing of beauty the timing and swing angle are only for the faint hearted.

Good luck hunting and sure might see you at the ploughing we can research some balers.

Reggie.

dzer2 wrote: »

Ah Reggie a round baler is very simple a few chains, bearings and rollers and a good driver and you are off to make loads of money. When looking a one, look at the sprockets that the chains run on, the teeth should protrude through the chain and look semi circle like. Check the rollers for rust, dimples and dents. Look at the towing eye make sure its not oblong or badly worn, sure sign of loads of work done.
The bearings are very hard to judge, all you can do is run the baler at around 2k revs and listen to then creaking and groaning not a good sign. Check that the sprockets are fitted correctly to the shafts and all have keys fitted.

I would go for a worn one and pay appropriately for it and do it up over the winter then you know you are good to go.

The claas have a valve for keeping the door closed it also lets you know when the bale is full. I have a 44s here 22yrs and have never changed it. But the claas spares are expensive and you really need to source 2nd hand parts. As for net wrap it provides neat bales and is slightly faster than twine but the weight could be a factor in wet yrs and coolish ground. In 11 & 12 I got a lot of work with me old claas as a lot of the newer bales were too heavy with the choppers and net equipment.

As for square baler knotters they a thing of beauty the timing and swing angle are only for the faint hearted.

Good luck hunting and sure might see you at the ploughing we can research some balers.

Cheers for that lad. Let me know your stand and ill see ya there

emaherx

dzer2 wrote: »

Ah Reggie a round baler is very simple a few chains, bearings and rollers and a good driver and you are off to make loads of money. When looking a one, look at the sprockets that the chains run on, the teeth should protrude through the chain and look semi circle like. Check the rollers for rust, dimples and dents. Look at the towing eye make sure its not oblong or badly worn, sure sign of loads of work done.
The bearings are very hard to judge, all you can do is run the baler at around 2k revs and listen to then creaking and groaning not a good sign. Check that the sprockets are fitted correctly to the shafts and all have keys fitted.

I would go for a worn one and pay appropriately for it and do it up over the winter then you know you are good to go.

The claas have a valve for keeping the door closed it also lets you know when the bale is full. I have a 44s here 22yrs and have never changed it. But the claas spares are expensive and you really need to source 2nd hand parts. As for net wrap it provides neat bales and is slightly faster than twine but the weight could be a factor in wet yrs and coolish ground. In 11 & 12 I got a lot of work with me old claas as a lot of the newer bales were too heavy with the choppers and net equipment.

As for square baler knotters they a thing of beauty the timing and swing angle are only for the faint hearted.

Good luck hunting and sure might see you at the ploughing we can research some balers.

Agreed, round baler is a much simpler beast than a square baler.

On checking bearings, as well as listening for noise, just push every roller up by hand, any sign of movement would be a sign of bearings on the way out.

Don't know much about about the class 46 chopper models, but one thing to watch out for on the standard baler is ware on the splines of the of the fork which pulls the grass from the pickup reel into the chamber. Its not very expensive to fix, but requires an extra large swear jar on standby.

When I originally read the first post for some reason I read 698 instead of 398. The 398 would have at least another 15HP on the 698 so may well be able to drive the chopper, but 6 cylinder like a 399 would be a much better option.

Zr105

Hey Reggie just flicked into dd there and saw this, if you were willing to go a bit stronger on the money and this was fairly clean it should be a good buy, the profi models are a heavier baler, bigger bearings in the key areas, and bigger wheels so will be better on softer ground, says its had chains last year to,

http://www.donedeal.ie/view/7670048
Welger rp 220 Profi

Reggie.

Zr105 wrote: »

Hey Reggie just flicked into dd there and saw this, if you were willing to go a bit stronger on the money and this was fairly clean it should be a good buy, the profi models are a heavier baler, bigger bearings in the key areas, and bigger wheels so will be better on softer ground, says its had chains last year to,

http://www.donedeal.ie/view/7670048
Welger rp 220 Profi

Good call there lad but it will be near the end of next year id say before I purchase. Unless I get a windfall in the meantime . Just putting out the feelers at the min.

that would be the kind of machine I would be after tho.

sandydan

i know nothing about balers other than i was in contractors yard one day and said something to him about bale count on clock, ,18,000 i think ,anyway he muttered something about,you don't go by clocks and he showed me back of chamber just over wheels,just at where door closes,which also had valve issue. it was buckling slightly at lower end, instead of being straight , a baler man would explain this better and he said that starts around/over 30,000.
something happened cable and bale counter was not working, he reckoned it had 40,000 bales approx done but he had sorted cable issue, his new baler had major bust up cost him fortune he said. a bearing or roller had come loose and roller had done wreck in baler costing big bucks.. warranty did not cover him as small print warned to check bearings daily. problem as he said was he forgot to do so,i think bolts loosened.

Reggie.

sandydan wrote: »

i know nothing about balers other than i was in contractors yard one day and said something to him about bale count on clock, ,18,000 i think ,anyway he muttered something about,you don't go by clocks and he showed me back of chamber just over wheels,just at where door closes,which also had valve issue. it was buckling slightly at lower end, instead of being straight , a baler man would explain this better and he said that starts around/over 30,000.
something happened cable and bale counter was not working, he reckoned it had 40,000 bales approx done but he had sorted cable issue, his new baler had major bust up cost him fortune he said. a bearing or roller had come loose and roller had done wreck in baler costing big bucks.. warranty did not cover him as small print warned to check bearings daily. problem as he said was he forgot to do so,i think bolts loosened.

Any idea on what type of baler it was

sandydan

Reggie. wrote: »

Any idea on what type of baler it was

the old one, sorry no i cant,(it was about 8 years ago and purchased in Ni from Al Mill new but the territory it worked in was steep mostly) other than it was red, maybe ill think of it later, i know it worked for a few more years after, he said it was trouble free . knowing him he ran it to a standstill.
i never saw newer one only heard him talking about it,but he prob bought from NI again id say and he has a reputation of making very heavy bales , if still contracting

Reggie.

sandydan wrote: »

sorry no i cant,(it was about 8 years ago and purchased in Ni from Al Mill new but the territory it worked in was steep mostly) other than it was red, maybe ill think of it later, i know it worked for a few more years after, he said it was trouble free . knowing him he ran it to a standstill.

No hassle. Like to get all info and then make an educated decision then. Don't want to end up with something that will give me bother

davidk1394

Buy a welger rp 220 farmer great and straight forward machine we have a case 1394 72hp driving it and we do 3000 bales a year... easy to maintain.. the rollers in the old claas were divils for bending as there was no shaft running the whole way through the roller.

Reggie.

davidk1394 wrote: »

Buy a welger rp 220 farmer great and straight forward machine we have a case 1394 72hp driving it and we do 3000 bales a year... easy to maintain.. the rollers in the old claas were divils for bending as there was no shaft running the whole way through the roller.

Excellent...cheers dave. looks like I'm leaning towards the welger 220 way alright if I do decide to purchase one. Was worried about the tractor running a baler at 90 hp.

davidk1394

The only fault with these balers is the tensioner for the rollers on the back door... if you open the panel on the right as u look at the baler.. you'll see the sprocket that tensions the chain.. it is held to the frame of the baler with an iron rod and 2 springs.. if they're loose the rod moves up and down and cuts into the frame of the baler.. happened us and made **** of a good chain... we learned the hard way !!

Reggie.

davidk1394 wrote: »

The only fault with these balers is the tensioner for the rollers on the back door... if you open the panel on the right as u look at the baler.. you'll see the sprocket that tensions the chain.. it is held to the frame of the baler with an iron rod and 2 springs.. if they're loose the rod moves up and down and cuts into the frame of the baler.. happened us and made **** of a good chain... we learned the hard way !!

Good stuff lad

Reggie.

This would put ya off buying a baler :eek:
http://youtu.be/EHBoTbqxSJM

Kovu

Reggie. wrote: »

This would put ya off buying a baler :eek:
http://youtu.be/EHBoTbqxSJM

What exactly happened there?!:pac:

Apart from the giant crash and broken shaft and locked chain etc etc.

Reggie.

.Kovu. wrote: »

What exactly happened there?!:pac:

Apart from the giant crash and broken shaft and locked chain etc etc.

Not sure. Hoping someone with more knowledge of them might indulge me. Looks like the transfer box blew itself apart

Kovu

Reggie. wrote: »

Not sure. Hoping someone with more knowledge of them might indulge me. Looks like the transfer box blew itself apart

You can practically see the moment the driver just thinks....'Oh bollocks'

Reggie.

.Kovu. wrote: »

You can practically see the moment the driver just thinks....'Oh bollocks'

I felt his dread also. I knew the minute I heard the banging

Odelay

And that is why chains need to be correctly tensioned, they do stretch....

Justjens

That's what happens when you drive a Class;)

Reggie.

Odelay wrote: »

And that is why chains need to be correctly tensioned, they do stretch....

So the chains were loose?

Odelay

Most likely, when loose the chain "bites/catches" on the return. They do stretch, when stretched 10% they are more likely to break and need to be replaced, easy to measure, have a look at measuring chain stretch online. Saves the cogs, keys and is easier on the chain too. Simple enough job.

Reggie.

Odelay wrote: »

Most likely, when loose the chain "bites/catches" on the return. They do stretch, when stretched 10% they are more likely to break and need to be replaced, easy to measure, have a look at measuring chain stretch online. Saves the cogs, keys and is easier on the chain too. Simple enough job.

But what caused the transfer box to tear apart....the jammed cog?

Zr105

Going by the noise of it id say it was a combo of a bearing on the way out and chains gone slack! Then the hole lot jamming up and pop! I'd say the shear bolt must have been bodged up to for it to crap the box out so much...

Reggie.

Zr105 wrote: »

Going by the noise of it id say it was a combo of a bearing on the way out and chains gone slack! Then the hole lot jamming up and pop! I'd say the shear bolt must have been bodged up to for it to crap the box out so much...

Daily check not done

Greengrass1

Reggie. wrote: »

Daily check not done

Well not daily but every few days. Those chains had to be very very loose for them to slip and cause that much damage.
Well check our baler before season then mid season and before straw.

Zr105

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Well not daily but every few days. Those chains had to be very very loose for them to slip and cause that much damage.
Well check our baler before season then mid season and before straw.

Hey greengrass check out post 32 there in the other baler thread Reggie revived there today, vincelorenzo has a few videos in it there of the standard mchale wrapper working satelite style with an engine mounted up

Zr105

Reggie. wrote: »

Daily check not done

I'd say more than likely was never looked at at all... But then in fairness a bearing can go in the space of one bale, one went out with me this year, all was going well until I started to net the bale, started getting an odd rattle as net went on, then when I opened the door it got a lot worse, top bearing had given away but was fine when the pressure of the straw was against it, then when the pressure of the straw was gone the tension on the chain pulled it down

Greengrass1

Zr105 wrote: »

Hey greengrass check out post 32 there in the other baler thread Reggie revived there today, vincelorenzo has a few videos in it there of the standard mchale wrapper working satelite style with an engine mounted up

Wonder how much an engine like that would cost?

Zr105

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Wonder how much an engine like that would cost?

Don't know to be honest, I'd imagine the biggest problem would be finding one...

gctest50

these yokes are handy sometimes :

http://www.skf.com/group/products/condition-monitoring/basic-condition-monitoring-products/stethoscopes/index.html

you can hear the roughness of the bearings

efox.ie do them

gctest50

Zr105 wrote: »

Don't know to be honest, I'd imagine the biggest problem would be finding one...

the engine from a little "road" air compressor maybe ?

keep just the engine - sell off the rest

http://www.donedeal.ie/plantmachinery-for-sale/ingersoll-rand-oral-compressor/7459178

Zr105

gctest50 wrote: »

the engine from a little "road" air compressor maybe ?

keep just the engine - sell off the rest

http://www.donedeal.ie/plantmachinery-for-sale/ingersoll-rand-oral-compressor/7459178

Mightn't be the worst place to start alright, but it would be a fair bit of work by the time you'd get a tank and oil pump set up on it to...
I'd say there are a few power packs knocking about, it's just finding one, I think there was one on dd last year but it's long gone now anyway