Non - Manager colleague recording/monitoring my leave

LegacyUser

Hi Folks,
I want to go anon on this.

My issue is that I have discovered that a colleague in my section has been monitoring and recording all my leave and any sick leave that I have taken over the last couple of years. I work in the Public Sector.

Recently, I had to take a sick day due to getting a vomiting bug. My Manager cleared me for it and it was duly recorded in the new computer system that all Public Sector workers now have to use. During the day I was off this colleague quizzed a close colleague about my whereabouts. When I returned to work the next day I was quizzed in a pseudo friendly way. I was immediately taken aback but didn't give him any hop. I mentioned it my close colleague, who informed me that he was also quizzed about me. Intrigued I made inquiries with the other people in my section and it has emerged that they have all been quizzed many times when others have been out on annual leave etc.

This morning I came to work extra early and 'found' his diary. To my shock I had discovered any time people in our section have been out due to annual leave, sick leave or work based courses etc have all been recorded. He has even recored the leave etc of our section manager.He even has them coloured coded! I know what I did was morally dubious but I feel it was a risk worth taking. I now have definitive proof. I photo copied any info that pertained to me. I really feel intimidated and harassed now.

I had a private meeting with our Manager this afternoon and informed him of what was occurring. My manager wasn't really surprised as this person has a habit of causing trouble in our section. I was also informed that he could't do anything as he had no evidence that he could use.

My options:
1. My annual leave and sick leave is private and should only be an interaction between my personnel department,my Manager and me. Under the Data Protection act, can he as an individual hold and record any information on me?Can I invoke the act and ask the Data commissioner to contact him and desist from recording anything about me?

2. I contact our HR department and inform them of what I have discovered and request them to take action?I'm willing to take a 'hit' on my actions of how I got my evidence.

3. Enter into the Mediation process that is available for public sector employees and demand that he desist?

4. Contact my own Solicitor for advice?

Sorry about the long message but I have done a lot of thinking on this and I would really appreciate some objective advice. I haven't informed anybody in my section of what I've found. The guy is not popular and has caused a lot of trouble over the last couple of years and all hell would break loose if word got out.

Thanks in advance.

qdawg86

Do nothing. There is nothing to do in my opinion. This person is weird but ultimately their actions won't affect you. You said you had cleared all of your leave with your manager-so that's that.

LegacyUser

qdawg86 wrote: »

Do nothing. There is nothing to do in my opinion.

OP, whatever you do, don't do this. This is harassment by your colleague, their recording of your absences is at best unethical and possibly illegal. Your manager is also wrong, they have a complaint from you and simply shrugging it off is not good enough, not nearly good enough. Your colleague's history of being problematic has led to your manager being too lazy or cowardly to actually manage them, but that's just too bad 'cos that's part of what a manager gets paid for and they can't just leave it.
I suggest you contact your union rep for advice and also in-house bullying contacts if your office has them, I suggest speaking to your manager again and telling them your colleague is keeping a diary so there is evidence to support your complaint. If your manager doesn't take it seriously, tell them you'll be escalating it, as is your right, to their manager and/or HR.
In the meantime, I'd suggest you and your collegues all adopt a universal response to this person's questions, starting with a smiling "why do you ask?" and escalating to a "**** off and mind your own business" if they don't stop.

pc7

Come in early again and 'disappear' their diary. Your manager should have raised it with them saying its come to his/her attention, seeing as they won't, take it and shred the thing. If the person then complains to the Manager they may admit what was in it and then the manager might do something.

Oryx

What difference does it make to you? He might as well be recording what you had for lunch. Its peculiar but I dont see how it affects you.

Big Bag of Chips

I don't know. It's weird, but it's hardly "private". If you are out, everyone in your office knows this. If you are on annual leave, then people know. So he's not exactly following you around taking notes that nobody else knows. He's also doing it for everyone else in the office too. And management have said there's nothing he can do with the information either.

What do you think he can do with it?

I'd see it as a bit of a trainspotter hobby he has. It serves no purpose to anyone else, or to him really. Management already have their own record of any days leave you take, so him approaching them with his will not be any big reveal of shenanigans going on.

He's and oddball. But he's not doing anything wrong, as such.

Edit: Although if he has time to be making up colour coded charts on each employee perhaps you could suggest to management that he clearly hasn't enough work to be keeping him busy!

Autonomous

Contact the data commissioners office, that person is collecting private data ( times, dates, reasons, names) on you and your colleagues in a work environment, imo thats illegal, as he does not have employers permission and doing it in their premises.
Best check with data commissioners

Stavro Mueller

Also at this stage you've brought the issue to your manager. It's up to them to decide what to do or not do. The irony of you kicking up a fuss over this (solicitors??) is that you'll be the one coming across as the trouble-making weirdo.

If everyone who's taking annual and sick leave in the office is above board, there is nothing this guy can do to you. If HR decides that you're taking too much sick leave they're the ones who'll be getting on to you. Not this guy. He can't actually do anything to you. Now that his manager knows what he's up to, he's even more powerless. You also don't know if your manager intends to take him aside over this issue. It's unlikely you'll be kept in the loop on this anyway.

I notice you say you "found" his diary so in other words you went snooping through his stuff? There goes your high moral ground if that's the case. Be very careful....

miamee

Days off and sick days are something that everyone else in the office will know about, it is not really private information. "Where's Jimmy today?" "Oh I think he has a tummy bug". Happens all the time in offices everywhere.

OP while it is an odd thing for him to do, I think talk of speaking to a solicitor etc. is an over the top reaction. He is not accessing any private information. If you are absent, everyone in your office is going to notice that you are out and no doubt most of them know whether it is annual leave or a sick day. By reading his diary, you have arguably violated his privacy more than he has yours to be honest. I'd leave well enough alone or if it is really bothering you that much just ask the guy why he is always so interested in people's days off.

seamus

miamee wrote: »

Days off and sick days are something that everyone else in the office will know about, it is not really private information. "Where's Jimmy today?" "Oh I think he has a tummy bug". Happens all the time in offices everywhere.

Well it is private information in the true sense of the word. It's information private to the company if nothing else.
Even within the company, data protection legislation requires that information may only be recorded and accessed by those with a reason to do so. In the case of sick days and annual leave, only HR and your direct line management are entitled to see this information. Colleagues and other management are not entitled to either record or view this information.

This colleague is collecting this information in an unauthorised manner and storing it insecurely in breach of data protection requirements and no doubt in breach of the information security policies of the company.

OP, how you discovered this is somewhat irrelevant. It's not a court case.

If your manager is not willing to make anything out of it, then report it to the person in charge of data security and to HR. Again, how you came across the data is irrelevant, all you're reporting is a known breach of data protection and violation of company policy.

LegacyUser

OP the most prudent course of action is to have another word with your manager and inform them that you really feel uncomfortable with the matter.
Ask your line manager for their advice and if there anything HR could do? would he/she be supportive of you approaching to HR (either in a formal or informal basis) to seek their guidance on
"How the matter can be addressed and make the work environment more comfortable for everyone" and not "how can this person be punished / shamed"

I suggest an informal word with HR rather then a sledge hammer approach.

Do not mention reading diary or photocopies simply state you have seen him writting and recording details in a diary.
Guage the feelings of your manager and HR on the matter and let them direct the matter.
Do not persue this like a vendetta.

Idrive

Would you confront him in a nice enough manner ?
Along the lines of " I heard from the other team members that you like to keep tags on my whereabouts " ? I wouldnt even mention that you saw his diary.

Its very strange behaviour alright but I don't think its criminal behaviour.

Addle

qdawg86 wrote: »

Do nothing. There is nothing to do in my opinion. This person is weird but ultimately their actions won't affect you. You said you had cleared all of your leave with your manager-so that's that.

I agree.

Does this person have to answer your phone/cover your workload while you are off?
It may be their way of recording extra duties.

You should not have looked in their diary.

zoobizoo

If you hadn't 'illegally' being snooping through his diary, you'd be none the wiser.

Maybe he's one of those people who never took a sick day off school and won an award for it. And he just wants to prove to himself that he still has it! Who knows... hardly sounds malicious though.

Penny Tration

That you went through his private diary is a far more serious issue than him noting your days off.

Leave it, because you'll get in much worse trouble, I'd imagine.

Riskymove

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

What do you think he can do with it?

The only thing I can think of is that he has been challenged about his own annual leave or sick leave etc.

so now he wants to track others in an attempt to defend his own position

as others have said the fact you are not at your desk is not private however the reasons for that fact are

I think you should talk to your colleagues and agree not to inform other people, including this guy, of any details.

greengirl31

OP i get why you would be annoyed about a co-worker keeping tabs on you like that - it's none of his business where you are and why you're not in work. Does he have to cover for you when you're not there ?? Maybe he has a little gripe about that.

First of all, I wouldn't mention to anyone that you went through his diary - but if you want to get pedantic about it, if it's a work diary, it's the property of the employer in much the same way that emails are. If it's a personal diary, it should be kept on his person.

I'd have a look at your Employee Handbook or Code of Conduct to see if there's anything in either of those that he's breeching. I would have another informal chat with your manager to say that you're not comfortable with a collegue keeping tabs on you - that you find it disturbing and intimidating. I'd have a similar informal chat with HR to see what they have to say on the matter. I'd tread softly for the time being to see what the lie of the land is with the formal HR/Manager channels. But if all the other employees in your group dont give him the information he can't keep track so next time he asks "where x is today?", i'd be just giving him the simple "I don't know" or if all else fails "it's none of your business"

Good luck with it

Barely There

You went through his personal stuff, found his diary and photocopied parts of it,


By all means report what you found to HR, but I'd imagine they'll be far more concerned with your actions than with his.

He hasn't really done anything 'wrong' - strange or quirky perhaps. You on the other hand will get in a world of trouble.

LegacyUser

You've made your manager aware whats happened and you've not done anything wrong regarding sick days or leave (will leave out the snooping through his stuff for the moment) so what else is there to do? Unless you found information in his files that shouldn't be public ie copies of doctors certs/notes etc then any information he has recorded is not exactly private but just a note that person A wasn't in today either due to illness or leave. Most departments let other staff know when someone is going to be out so not difficult to make a note of it. Maybe they've had issues with higher ups over their sick days before and they've been tracking other people to have as support if they get called out on their own sick days or maybe they just record information and make charts, creepy maybe to some but not illegal.

You might want to consider what could happen if your manager talks to them and they bring up the fact that you went through their private files as thats the only way you could have found the information.

Eric Cartman

I used to work with somebody who did this to me and another employee to make us look bad so I used to mess them up by coming in the back door and making sure our managing director saw me but not this person, eventually this individual went to our MD with their list trying to get the two of us sacked and I was able to say the whole thing was wrong "sure you saw me at 9.30 that day, i emailed you from my desk at 10 that day"

There are some people in this world who think its their moral right to show up others. Considering you have access to the diary id recommend you just destroy it and play dumb when they kick up about it. Totally unacceptable in my book.

Stavro Mueller

cant log in wrote: »

You might want to consider what could happen if your manager talks to them and they bring up the fact that you went through their private files as that's the only way you could have found the information.

^^This. If you want to take the advice of other posters and take this matter further, by all means do it. Maybe they're the ones who are right

Be warned though, the consequences may be more far-reaching than you'd like. I've two friends (1 public sector, 1 private) who've had issues in their workplaces and they've got choice things to say about HR. :rolleyes: In one case (the private sector one) they just moved the person causing the trouble to another department. In the other case the person who was at the root of the problems is still working in the same office and it's poisoning the atmosphere. At worst this guy'll probably get a warning so you're going to be stuck working alongside him for the foreseeable future. Can you live with that?

Also, if this guy's a troublemaker he'll have no problem going to town on you if he finds out you went snooping and found his diary. Without that diary all you can say is that he was being nosy and asking were you on leave.

Sweet Rose

I would come into work early and get a hold of that diary and shred it into tiny pieces at home. Honestly, he has no right as your colleague to take note of your comings and goings. He is probably looking for a promotion and is gathering evidence to make everyone look bad. What a creepy thing to do.

uch

Do what Seamus says, Inform HR and tell your manager if he won't do anything about it that you'll be escalating the issue. If you are in a Union I'd also inform your union rep

K_P

You snooped through and photocopied his diary and you think YOU'RE the one being harassed?

Your colleague sounds like an oddball, but how on earth are his actions invading your privacy? Everyone knows when you're on leave or are out sick, that doesn't mean he knows the personal details for any such leave though. Considering your invasion of his privacy, I would seriously advise you to let this drop.

As for contacting the Data Protection Commissioner or your solicitor... I don't actually know where to begin. I suspect there's a pair of you in it.

freshpopcorn

To be honest ye're both seem as bad as one another.
He wrotevdown factual events that were taking place/happened. It's not a secret when somebody misses a day/take sick leave/holidays.
Whilst you touched/snopped/copied something that didn't belong to you and you didn't have permission to do any of those things.

December2012

It is a bit odd, but what harm have you actually suffered? I'm saying this because to my mind, your next move, if any, is determined by how this actually affects you.

Rubberchikken

Your manager could follow it up with him without going into any details re. you looking in his diary.
The fact that he's a nuisence means that managemt will take the cowardly way out and let him carry on with his, what i consider slightly intimidating, behaviour.

Victor

green_screen wrote: »

That you went through his private diary

That there would appear to be a work diary, subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

IlmoNT4

I dont see what the problem is....your leave is approved by someone else. Its obvious to everyone when you are out of the office... if this guy wants to make notes of it, so what. The only thing that matters is that your leave is recorded in the correct HR system and approved by your manager and any other procedures are followed.

This guy may as well be recording how many pencils are on your desk, who cares... I think your bring a lot of attention onto yourself for no reason. Whats he going to do with this information? He cant take it to HR or your manager, and even if he did, they wouldnt be interested in it nor would it be valid. I dont think there is question of data protection. He isnt accessing the official time attendance system, he's recording his own observations.

If it was me, I'd drop this, and stir clear of this guy.
Why does this bother so much?

GreeBo

Him recording the information is weird, him questioning others as to your whereabouts "is he sick or on leave" is harassment in my view.
He is potentially sullying your name by implying to others that you are out sick a lot.
I'd ask him why he records your absences and make a show of writing down his answers and the time he comes and goes out. Anytime he leaves his desk write it down, saying something like "out at 10:15" and "back at 10:25".
See how he likes it.

Gatling

Id be personally worried about somebody arriving early or staying late in order to snoop through co worker's stuff ,
If if got out you could find yourself under suspicion ,

tenifan

If he's covering your work or answering your phone, maybe it's good he has a record of his extra workload? I think you're looking for trouble. You shouldn't have gone through his diary, and all that talk about going to your manager / hr / a solicitor.. pretty bizarre really.

GreeBo

tenifan wrote: »

If he's covering your work or answering your phone, maybe it's good he has a record of his extra workload? I think you're looking for trouble. You shouldn't have gone through his diary, and all that talk about going to your manager / hr / a solicitor.. pretty bizarre really.

Unless its a personal book its company property and anyone can look at it for company reasons. The manager can ask for it directly.
Either way it should be locked up if the expectation is that no one is to read it.

MagicMarker

Some people can't help but make a fuss over the most inconsequential things.

Op, so what if he records this stuff? What impact does this have on you?

GreeBo

MagicMarker wrote: »

Some people can't help but make a fuss over the most inconsequential things.

Op, so what if he records this stuff? What impact does this have on you?

It could be an attempt to discredit or damage the OPs reputation.
He has an issue with it, whats impact does his issue have on you?

Larry Wildman

If I was running the show, I'd do my best to get rid of diary man and the OP.

The fella keeping tabs on everyone clearly has a screw loose but the OP's reaction is laughable - Snooping through someone's diary and talking about the Data Commissioner. Mad stuff. Just forget it - It would be the easiest thing in the world to track your colleagues absences.

MagicMarker

GreeBo wrote: »

It could be an attempt to discredit or damage the OPs reputation.
He has an issue with it, whats impact does his issue have on you?

The exact same as it has on the OP, none.

If the OP has their sickdays/holidays cleared with management then there's nothing to worry about.

GreeBo

MagicMarker wrote: »

The exact same as it has on the OP, none.

If the OP has their sickdays/holidays cleared with management then there's nothing to worry about.

what about their reputation witht he other staff?
they have no idea if the holidays were cleared or not.

and if sometime in the future in another role/company the note keeper or other staff are in a position to influence the OP getting hired for example.
"oh i remember him, there was some questionover attendence record.."

right now it may have no impact but it easily might. The ops manager leaves for example and the notekeeper brings it up with the new manager

to dismiss it out of hand is very short sighted imo.

CaraMay

I would lift the diary and hold on to it. Strange behaviour from him but you need to protect yourself too.

Gatling

CaraMay wrote: »

I would lift the diary and hold on to it. Strange behaviour from him but you need to protect yourself too.

Like theft is really going to help

Mr. Incognito

there's no laws against keeping records of stuff

there's laws against theft and destruction of private property

make of that what you will

GreeBo

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

there's no laws against keeping records of stuff

there's laws against theft and destruction of private property

make of that what you will

company property is not private property.
at this stage its not clear whose property it actually is.

better call saul

pc7 wrote: »

Come in early again and 'disappear' their diary. Your manager should have raised it with them saying its come to his/her attention, seeing as they won't, take it and shred the thing. If the person then complains to the Manager they may admit what was in it and then the manager might do something.

This!

tenifan

GreeBo wrote: »

company property is not private property.
at this stage its not clear whose property it actually is.

Absolute rubbish argument, and it's the second time you repeated it.

Just because the diary may be company property, like any files or data, does not mean any company employee can access them whenever they like.

For example, if HR requested a copy of my passport and I photocopied it, I wouldn't expect some clown to snatch it out of my hand and read my personal details just because the A4 sheet was "company property".

See how silly that sounds?

As for leaving stuff "lying around".. just because some one forget to lock their PC (Company property!) doesn't give the op the right to open their Outlook and read through emails, business-related, personal, or otherwise.

GreeBo

tenifan wrote: »

Absolute rubbish argument, and it's the second time you repeated it.

Just because the diary may be company property, like any files or data, does not mean any company employee can access them whenever they like.

For example, if HR requested a copy of my passport and I photocopied it, I wouldn't expect some clown to snatch it out of my hand and read my personal details just because the A4 sheet was "company property".

See how silly that sounds?

As for leaving stuff "lying around".. just because some one forget to lock their PC (Company property!) doesn't give the op the right to open their Outlook and read through emails, business-related, personal, or otherwise.

rubbish argument about what?
the op can mention its existence and the manager can demand it if its company property.

exactly as i stated the first time i mentioned it.
Its a fact, company property means your manager can demand it.
he can also read your personal emails if they are coming to your work account, they aremost likely already being scanned, along ith your browsing habits.
thats a fact of the big bad world and not as you delicately put it "rubbish".

tenifan

GreeBo wrote: »

rubbish argument about what?
the op can mention its existence and the manager can demand it if its company property.

whatever about the manager requesting it, "Unless its a personal book its company property and anyone can look at it for company reasons". The op did not have company reasons for looking at it. He/she was just being nosey.

Second, regardless of who paid for the notebook, if it's being used for personal reasons it's not so simple as the manager being able to demand it.. and from what the op said, it seems the manager wants absolutely nothing to do with the mess the op tried to embroil him in. Good for the manager.

GreeBo

tenifan wrote: »

whatever about the manager requesting it, "Unless its a personal book its company property and anyone can look at it for company reasons". The op did not have company reasons for looking at it. He/she was just being nosey.

Second, regardless of who paid for the notebook, if it's being used for personal reasons it's not so simple as the manager being able to demand it.. and from what the op said, it seems the manager wants absolutely nothing to do with the mess the op tried to embroil him in. Good for the manager.

Convenient "whatever" there tbh.
I didn't mention the Op looking at it, only the manager.


And it is so simple, company property is just that, you shouldn't put things in there you don't want your seniors to have access to ay any time, read your contract, remains company property no matter what you do or deem it to be.

Taltos

Less of the sniping please, if you don't have constructive civil advise to offer the OP please don't post.
Similarly telling the OP to remove or destroy someone else's diary (especially where ownership is not stated) is not on guys. Both of these types of responses normally result in moderator action.

Thanks
Taltos

The_Conductor

OP- you said its the public sector?
All you have to do is approach the union outlining what is happening, it is in actual fact covered under legislation governing bullying and harrassment- and the union will then take it up with Personnel on your behalf. If you are in the union and paying your fees- you may as well use some of the mechanisms it opens to you.

indigo twist

Can you be sure that your manager didn't ask him to quietly record all of this - I know you say there's a system in place for it, but maybe the manager wanted a more detailed record and analysis for the department, for whatever reason. And if it were being done unofficially, it would explain why your manager appeared to know nothing about it when you asked him.

In my place I'm that person who has to monitor everyone's timekeeping, absences, overtime, holidays etc, even though I'm not management. This is no secret in my workplace, and if I ask someone questions about their leave, or whether a colleague is sick etc, they know why I'm asking ... however I imagine some new employees mightn't realise this, and might wonder at first why a random colleague is asking these questions!

It's a different situation for me, as it's fully open and everyone is aware it's just part of my job. However even if this guy is doing it discreetly (at the request of management) I don't see anything wrong with what he's doing, just because management are delegating it to him rather than doing it themselves.

Honestly I can't see why else he'd be bothered, especially with the colour-coding etc. Maybe whatever computer system used there for recording these things isn't very efficient at getting detailed enough info or identifying patterns of lateness or absenteeism.

Anyways, if I were you, I wouldn't let it bother me. Even if he is "spying" on behalf of management, you've nothing to worry about so long as you don't have problems with lateness or absenteeism. Even if he is doing it just as his own weird little hobby, meah, let him at it. Can't see the harm in it myself tbh.

The_Conductor

Its public sector- so its probably recorded on Peoplepoint, Clockwise and possibly other systems such as Sharepoint (where you'd have a shared calendar that all staff would have access to). It is not acceptable for a staff member- other than the person's immediate line manager, to decide to record the comings and goings of staff members- additional to official structures in place.

The OP may have to clock in and out too- so there would be a definitive trail of when they are present- alongside a narrative of where they are when they are not physically present..........

It is the public sector- and they are anal about recording these things (aside from any other reason- they do get asked about staff absences constantly in PQs and by the media- and there are league tables published showing the Departments with the worse staff records, alongside action plans on how to improve attendances.

Contrary to what people who work in offices in the private sector think- the comings and goings of staff in the public sector are already monitored to a remarkable extent- the unofficial note taking of this staff member is wholly uncalled for, superfluous to any use, need or purpose- and quite simply harassment and bullying on the part of the person doing so.

Also- anyone in Management in the Public Sector- will get an annual work diary- which can be requested for inspection at any stage (and indeed, depending on the duties of the person, could end up as evidence in cases etc)- most people are very careful about what they put in their work diaries- it can be requested at any time.

Work diaries are normally left on desks- they can be viewed by other staff members as required- and may have contact details for people working in the same sections- or work schedules explaining where labs are being held, meetings, presentations, etc etc etc

What the OP is detailing- is not normal. It is harassment. It is covered under bullying legislation.