Eating back enough calories?!

trasver

Hi all

Long time lurker, first time poster! Apologies in advance about the length of this post!

While I've been exercising a lot over the past few years (cycling) I really feel that I could significantly improve my progress by focusing on my diet a bit more. It was never disastrous but my sweet tooth in particular was my worst enemy!

I've been doing a lot of reading and have settled on using myfitnesspal to monitor my food intake but customising it to set my own goals.

I used a few online calculators to calculate my TDEE. Their values seem to vary so I ran about 6 and took the average! In this calculation I set my activity level to sedentary as I'm using a HRM monitor to track my exercise and have this linked through Strava to myfitnesspal to give an accurate estimation of my calories burned through exercise on days I train (5/6 times a week at varying intensities).

I set the base daily calorie target in myfitness pal to be my TDEE-20% (2055 calories) to facilitate weight loss. Therefore on exercise days I have 'extra' calories to consume and this is where I finally get to my question!

The calories burned can vary from 400 to almost 2000 depending the training day....on these days what is the best way to eat back these calories (larger portion sizes? snacks? (if so what do ye recommend as snacks!!)) and should I be aiming to eat them all back (I'm assuming yes)? I'm struggling to get to my daily calorie intake without feeling like I'm overeating!!

Thanks for any advice, I hope I'm not overthinking it...I'm a data junkie and this, to me at least, seems the most logical way to deal with very varied levels of calorie burning.

Thanks

Simon



I regularly see the first response being "post a typical days food consumption" so in preempting that here's mine from yesterday (I'm thinking its a high amount of calories consumed at dinner and should bring a lot of them to earlier in the day?):

Breakfast - 514 cals

Bircher muesli (rolled oats soaked in apple juice and water) mixed with yogurt and with pineapple and strawberries on top.


Lunch - 342 cals

Sweet potato shephards pie made with Gemsbok mine (very low fat, high protein game meat) with roast veg (beetroot, new potatoes, carrots, courgette, red onion)


Dinner - 1093 cals

3 slices whoegrain brown toast spread with half an avocado, 3 scrambled eggs and baked beans and a pint of milk.


Snacks - 377 cals

red apple, manderin, yoghurt with strawberries and sprinkle of toasted almonds, 50g kudu biltong.


This breaks down to 49% carbs, 30% fat and 21% protein (I'm thinking I need to decrease my carb intake and increase my protein intake...suggestions welcome!)

Alf Veedersane

What would you be doing on a day that is telling you you're burning 2000 kcals?

Also, what are your goals? Maintain weight? Lose it?

trasver

For the larger amounts of calories burned they'd be longer weekend rides in excess of 3 hours/100km. During the week I'm generally training on a wattbike which is using my power output to estimate calories burned (e.g. this morning I did an hour at an average power output of 188W which has been estimated at 754 calories burned. That seems a lot...maybe I first need to double check the accuracy of those calculations!

Primary goal is to improve my diet and eat well and coming from that coupled with exercise I do hope to lose weight as well.

Thanks

Simon

Alf Veedersane

trasver wrote: »

For the larger amounts of calories burned they'd be longer weekend rides in excess of 3 hours/100km. During the week I'm generally training on a wattbike which is using my power output to estimate calories burned (e.g. this morning I did an hour at an average power output of 188W which has been estimated at 754 calories burned. That seems a lot...maybe I first need to double check the accuracy of those calculations!

Primary goal is to improve my diet and eat well and coming from that coupled with exercise I do hope to lose weight as well.

Thanks

Simon

I'm tired so maybe I'm dropping a one somewhere but an average power output of 188W for an hour is 676,800 joules, which works out at 160ish kcals.

But it's certainly not 754 kcals. Maybe half that.

It's very difficult to judge calories burned correctly.

But I would say you could cut the carbs a bit and increase your protein alright.

trasver

Ah great, glad I posted that data! Some tool somewhere seems to be grossly overestimating my calories burned so!

I'll go and investigate...that's a relief as eating back that much was looking like being a nightmare!

Thanks for your thoughts

Alf Veedersane

Most machines that are measuring the output any returning data on calories burned. A better estimate would be a heart rate monitor where your own data is input but they're not hugely accurate either. So scale down what the feedback is telling you you're burning..

It will be a bit of trial and error but it should become apparent if you're eating too little so then you add in a bit more.

niamh.foley

It can also help if your biggest Meal of the day is your Breakfast,

it will give your body time to break it down if your having your biggest meal which is your dinner at 6 pm or 5pm on top of that again at 8pm bed time snack and bed at 10 or 11,

your giving you body only 4 hours to break ever thing down before bed time.

niamh.foley

trasver wrote: »

This breaks down to 49% carbs, 30% fat and 21% protein (I'm thinking I need to decrease my carb intake and increase my protein intake...suggestions welcome!)

no keep Carb at 49% if you want to cut anything it should be fat. if you can try 25% fat 26% protein.

Alf Veedersane

niamh.foley wrote: »

no keep Carb at 49% if you want to cut anything it should be fat. if you can try 25% fat 26% protein.

Why exactly?

ford2600

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Why exactly?

Fat is bad. Did you not get the memo!

Tigger99

Jesus 49% carb in very high. I'm averaging a third of each of the macros and am losing weight and gaining definition.

niamh.foley

ford2600 wrote: »

Fat is bad. Did you not get the memo!

Some people didnt get that Memo..

Alf Veedersane

niamh.foley wrote: »

Some people didnt get that Memo..

So, care to explain why you would reduce fat but not carbs?

niamh.foley

http://www.livestrong.com/article/469196-what-should-be-your-biggest-meal/

http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/tdjuly2007pg48.shtml

Good Read

Alf Veedersane

niamh.foley wrote: »

http://www.livestrong.com/article/469196-what-should-be-your-biggest-meal/

http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/tdjuly2007pg48.shtml

Good Read

The livestrong article makes a case for a big breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Ultimately, it's the number of calories eaten that dictates whether you lose weight. It doesn't matter when you eat them.

niamh.foley

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The livestrong article makes a case for a big breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Ultimately, it's the number of calories eaten that dictates whether you lose weight. It doesn't matter when you eat them.

last year listen to a sports and nutrition person talking to our local Tri club, they were saying for alot of people who train twice a day, it is not possiable to gain the calories that we burn off Training so we are going into negative calorie in turn we end up putting on the weight,

So they said it benefits if you are a person that trains in the morning to have your biggest meal in the Morning i Train @ 5.30 or 6 am then again at 6pm which could take me up to 8pm and bed at 10 before i sit down have anything it could be 8.30 - 9 before i have anything. so it in my interest to eat small

Alf Veedersane

niamh.foley wrote: »

last year listen to a sports and nutrition person talking to our local Tri club, they were saying for alot of people who train twice a day, it is not possiable to gain the calories that we burn off Training so we are going into negative calorie in turn we end up putting on the weight,

Only applicable if people are not eating enough and have no concept of how much you're eating and how much you're potentially burning.

niamh.foley wrote: »

So they said it benefits if you are a person that trains in the morning to have your biggest meal in the Morning i Train @ 5.30 or 6 am then again at 6pm which could take me up to 8pm and bed at 10 before i sit down have anything it could be 8.30 - 9 before i have anything. so it in my interest to eat small

You have your biggest meal in the morning?

It's not what you said in another thread but even if it is, having your biggest meal in the morning isn't necessarily best practice. Not for weight loss anyway.

niamh.foley

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You have your biggest meal in the morning?

It's not what you said in another thread but even if it is, having your biggest meal in the morning isn't necessarily best practice. Not for weight loss anyway.

for me my Morning would be a Juice, to me it would be the heaviest
for what i add to it.

at dinner time it could be salmon or other type of fish.. and maybe some salad.

each person is different getting to know how you body burns off fat /cals is the best to work around when to eat and when to workout. etc

ford2600

OP what are your goals exactly?

Are you overweight? Do you wish to reduce body fat and/or increase lean muscle mass?

Your diet seems mainly composed of real foods, which is a good start.

Before going into diet, I will make a few comments, assuming you have weight to lose
* Focusing on diet too much gets away from some of the other issues which cause poor food choices and hence weight gain/ poor energy levels etc
- too much stress
- not enough sleep
- not enough water
- good emotional health

On diet I also cycle a lot, probably more than yourself at a guess but that isn't too important. Part of my story is here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=91033187

Now I'm not advocating you eat like I eat just showing that the standard advice you generally get i.e. eat plenty pasta bread etc for exercise certainly isn't the only way of doing things. From my experience HFLC seems to suit a subset of people really well and another subset not so well at all, so it may not be for you anyhow.

I used to have a really sweet tooth, that is now gone.

On diet you need to get in all the protein, essential fatty acids, minerals, vitamins your body needs and then enough fat/carbs to fuel your activity levels. Counting calorie intake is a useful tool to get a handle on correct portion sizes put counting calories expended is very tricky and a guesstimate at best. I divide the number on my garmin by 2 to get a rough idea of calories burned on ultra long cycles( for sh1ts and giggles more than anything).

On food choices I would limit bread, sugar, get some fat protein into your breakfast and time carb intake on exercise days especially post exercise. Eat real food with a plenty protein and efa's and your body will probably know when you have enough.

On breakfast, I skip it myself and generally break a 17/18 hr fast with a big lunch without any negative side effect. Actually up to 100km I'm a better cyclist in a fasted state first thing in morning; perhaps body copes better in exercise mode without having to metabolise food.

Best of luck and safe cycling

trasver

Wow thanks everyone for your excellent replies and discussion.

I'm currently living in South Africa where LCHF is like the new national religion. It's purveyed by Tim Noakes and has all the shops stocking different ingredients, most restaurants have a "banting" menu and there's even new LCHF-only restaurants opening.

I tried it for about two months but it wasn't for me.

Yes I do have some weight to lose. I'm 193cm tall and am ~100kg...unfortunately I'm built more like a rugby player than a cyclist so I don't think I'll ever be a racing snake but during the season I race most weekends and have some good times but primarily I love it and the pain/enjoyment it brings!

However I'd prefer to lose the weight with more of a "lifestyle choice" than a crash diet hence I'm trying to change my eating habits which thankfully has proved very enjoyable but I just want to ensure its sustainable.

I think for me the biggest take home message from all your helpful comments is not to trust the Garmin/Strava calculations! Ford2600 I'll take your advice for the moment and divide the estimated calories by two. Also to address my macro levels....those bloody carbs are tough to avoid in foods!!

Any thoughts on my approach of using the TDEE-20% for base calorie requirement and then eating back the estimated exercise calories (after dividing by two)...is that the best approach?

Thanks all!

Simon

Alf Veedersane

If you're eating to your TDEE-20%, not accounting for exercise, and you want to balance the calories burned by exercising with extra food, there shouldn'e be a problem. If you match the calories burned by cycling with food, then you're still just hitting the TDEEE-20% mark.

Where most people go wrong is overestimating the calories burned and overeat as a consequence.

"I walked for half an hour...trime to EAT ALL THE THINGS"

But if err on the side of caution with how many calories the exercise affords, then you'll be fine.

trasver

As I'd suspected...thanks for the confirmation Alf Veedersane!

If only walking for half an hour gave license to eat!!