Landlady cut off electricity

Young Blood

My girlfriends landlady cut off the electricity to her apartment. She wants her to move out eventhough she has been paying rent for the last 4 months shes been there. My girlfriend doesnt know what to do because her visa has expired and she is no longer legal.
It seems as though the landlady wants her out to put up the rent.
This is absolutely disgraceful in this day and age.
What can she do? She is a human being after all

antoinolachtnai

Your girlfriend needs to contact threshold urgently. I would imagine they will suggest making a complaint to PRTB.

Mr. Incognito

Prtb. Dont move.

Gatling

Move out and sort the visa before she's gets in real trouble

the_syco

Young Blood wrote: »

My girlfriend doesnt know what to do because her visa has expired and she is no longer legal.

What sort of visa is it? Working visa, student visa or what? Also, what nationality is she? Does she still need the visa?

Young Blood

the_syco wrote: »

What sort of visa is it? Working visa, student visa or what? Also, what nationality is she? Does she still need the visa?

An expired student visa. But im sure that doesnt negate her human rights.

MouseTail

Young Blood wrote: »

An expired student visa. But im sure that doesnt negate her human rights.

Well it does really, someone here illegally will not be able to avail of PRTB. She is in a bind really, has she somewhere else to go whilst she sorts out her visa?

antoinolachtnai

MouseTail wrote: »

Well it does really, someone here illegally will not be able to avail of PRTB. She is in a bind really, has she somewhere else to go whilst she sorts out her visa?

Since when was immigration status a criterion at PRTB? Go to Threshold and fast.

There are going to be practical problems for sure. The alternative is to fold and move out.

Young Blood

MouseTail wrote: »

Well it does really, someone here illegally will not be able to avail of PRTB. She is in a bind really, has she somewhere else to go whilst she sorts out her visa?

The issue here isnt her visa. The issue here is the landlord cutting off the electricity to her apartment for which she has paid for.

The_Conductor

Another thing guys- the tenant has only been there 4 months- so the terms of a Part 4 Tenancy under the 2004 Tenancy Act- do not apply. The landlord is entitled to request the tenant vacate the property, without specifying a reason, for the first 6 months of a tenancy. If there is a lease in place- its provisions are a civil matter between the tenant and the landlord.

The underlying act and the provisions governing the rights of the tenant- are the 2004 Act- and if the tenant is somehow relying on a Part 4 tenancy under the Act- it doesn't exist until 6 months residency have been established.

Cutting off utilities is not acceptable behaviour. Keep in mind though- if the utility is not in the tenants name- and the providor cut off the supply- it is not as clear-cut a breach- as it would be were an illegal entry to the property undertaken to cut the power.

Does the tenant have a lease?
Are they renting the property in its entirety?
Are they there with the specific and forewarned knowledge and acceptance of the landlord (aka- if they took over from someone else- was the permission of the landlord sought, and granted)?
Are there other housemates?
If not- when did they leave and under what circumstances?
If there were previously- is the current tenant paying the rent for the entire property now- or are they attempting to only pay the rent for a single room, in a property in which they are the sole tenant?

There are more questions here than answers.

gordongekko

Can she just ring esb pay the reconnection fee and have the esb in her name?

GarIT

Young Blood wrote: »

The issue here isnt her visa. The issue here is the landlord cutting off the electricity to her apartment for which she has paid for.

Her money is no good here, she has no right to be here. It doesn't matter what she paid for. She won't have this problem if she leaves.

Victor

This is the Accommodation & Property forum. Let's keep this on-topic please.

Moderator

---

GarIT wrote: »

Her money is no good here,

Yes, it is.

she has no right to be here.

Not for the landlady to decide.

It doesn't matter what she paid for.

Yes, it does.

She won't have this problem if she leaves.

What if the visa situation gets cleared up today?

GarIT

Victor wrote: »

This is the Accommodation & Property forum. Let's keep this on-topic please.

Moderator

---

Yes, it is.

Not for the landlady to decide.

Yes, it does.

What if the visa situation gets cleared up today?

The landlady could get in trouble for knowingly aiding an illegal immigrant to stay in the country, if it was me I'd want the remnant out ASAP which I think is reasonable given the circumstances. She is being nice by not contacting the gardai IMO.

garhjw

OP, did the land lady provide A notice to vacate the apartment? Or did she just cut the electricity?

Zulu

There's clearly more to this story.
Op you say she's paid the last four months rent: when did she move in? Was it four months ago? And if not, why mention four months: was she late/in arrears prior to that?

Clarification required really.

That said cutting the electricity is drastic. (which is why I suspect bigger picture)

MouseTail

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Since when was immigration status a criterion at PRTB? Go to Threshold and fast.

There are going to be practical problems for sure. The alternative is to fold and move out.

Since always, an illegal immigrant cannot avail of the PRTB whilst staying here illegally.

Young Blood

garhjw wrote: »

OP, did the land lady provide A notice to vacate the apartment? Or did she just cut the electricity?

no notice was given. But the landlady has been pressuring her to move out the last couple of months. The landlady has also refused to collect last months rent.

Timberrrrrrrr

MouseTail wrote: »

Well it does really, someone here illegally will not be able to avail of PRTB. She is in a bind really, has she somewhere else to go whilst she sorts out her visa?

Complete and utter BS. Her visa requirements or status are nothing to do with PTRB and even if she is here illegally it does not give the LL the right to treat her like **** and break the law.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Young Blood wrote: »

no notice was given. But the landlady has been pressuring her to move out the last couple of months. The landlady has also refused to collect last months rent.

OP you did not answer a very important question. How long has your girlfriend been renting the property?

ted1

Whose name is the ESB in? How did the landlady cut it off? By pulling the fuse? By getting ESB to disconnect? The tenant should have the bill in her name.

With regards going to the PRTB if you kick up a fuss the reality is that emigration may be alerted.

Timberrrrrrrr

ted1 wrote: »

Whose name is the ESB in? How did the landlady cut it off? By pulling the fuse? By getting ESB to disconnect? The tenant should have the bill in her name.

With regards going to the PRTB if you kick up a fuss the reality is that emigration may be alerted.

So you think ops GF should just slink away into the night and let the LL get away with her behaviour? What about the next tenant?

ted1

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you think ops GF should just slink away into the night and let the LL get away with her behaviour? What about the next tenant?

I dint think people should be illegally in the country and if they expect to be protected by the laws of the land then they should also be subjected to the laws if the land.

I also asked whose name the bills were in. If they were in the tenants as they should have been then the landlord couldn't cut them off unless they physically pulled a breaker.

If they were in the landlords he may have closed his account and the Esb cut off the property. In this case it's the tenants fault for not transferring the bills.

Without the OP answering the question as to whose name they were in and how many months the tenant was in the place we then have no ideas as to weather it not the landlord did anything wrong .

Timberrrrrrrr

ted1 wrote: »

I dint think people should be illegally in the country and if they expect to be protected by the laws of the land then they should also be subjected to the laws if the land.

I also asked whose name the bills were in. If they were in the tenants as they should have been then the landlord couldn't cut them off unless they physically pulled a breaker.

If they were in the landlords he may have closed his account and the Esb cut off the property. In this case it's the tenants fault for not transferring the bills.

Without the OP answering the question as to whose name they were in and how many months the tenant was in the place we then have no ideas as to weather it not the landlord did anything wrong .

I agree, And the law of the land states that a LL cannot just cut off electricity and kick someone out of their home if they have been paying rent. Even if op hasn't been paying the rent there are still steps to follow, this is the law of the land!

ted1

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I agree, And the law of the land states that a LL cannot just cut off electricity and kick someone out of their home if they have been paying rent. Even if op hasn't been paying the rent there are still steps to follow, this is the law of the land!

We still don't know how or if the landlord cut off the electricity. The law of the land could also lead to deportation. If the tenant is only there 4 months then they have little protection. The OP is only telling a limited part if the story

Grandpa Hassan

This is all a waste of time unless the OP tells us how long his GF has been there. If less than 6 months, then she will likely be told to leave as well as the LL being fined for their unacceptable behaviour. I find it difficult to believe that a LL will go to the trouble of cutting off electricity without previously giving the tenant a notice to leave.

And also, I don't know whether it is the law in Ireland, but in the UK a LL can be held responsible if there is someone in their property who is in the country illegally. It is the LL's obligation to report it.

Timberrrrrrrr

ted1 wrote: »

We still don't know how or if the landlord cut off the electricity. The law of the land could also lead to deportation. If the tenant is only there 4 months then they have little protection. The OP is only telling a limited part if the story

Ok let's say the op (GF) has been in the country for 2 years, Visa expired 12 months ago. The op moves into apartment 4 months ago and pays rent, LL decides to get rid of op because she can get more rent. LL asks op to move out and when op refuses the LL cuts off the electricity. Do you think the op shouldn't have any rights?

cluelez

Young Blood wrote: »

My girlfriends landlady cut off the electricity to her apartment. She wants her to move out eventhough she has been paying rent for the last 4 months shes been there. My girlfriend doesnt know what to do because her visa has expired and she is no longer legal.
It seems as though the landlady wants her out to put up the rent.
This is absolutely disgraceful in this day and age.
What can she do? She is a human being after all

Man up, bring her in to your place. She's a human not a mattress.

Grandpa Hassan

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ok let's say the op (GF) has been in the country for 2 years, Visa expired 12 months ago. The op moves into apartment 4 months ago and pays rent, LL decides to get rid of op because she can get more rent. LL asks op to move out and when op refuses the LL cuts off the electricity. Do you think the op shouldn't have any rights?

It is the first 4 months so that LL can ask the tenant to leave for no reason. Cutting of the electricity is out of order and will lead to a fine for the LL, but the tenant also has to leave. The tenant has no rights here other than the right to an appropriate notice period.....they are obligated to leave the property.

ted1

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ok let's say the op (GF) has been in the country for 2 years, Visa expired 12 months ago. The op moves into apartment 4 months ago and pays rent, LL decides to get rid of op because she can get more rent. LL asks op to move out and when op refuses the LL cuts off the electricity. Do you think the op shouldn't have any rights?

You making stuff up, stop it.
He says she has put 4 months rent but the landlord has been trying to get rid if her for months? That doesn't add up.

Perhaps the landlord will get less rent but won't be knowingly aiding an illegal immigrant. So is happy to take a reduced rent

seamus

The PRTB may in fact be prevented from assisting her by virtue of her status. Though that's not to say she can't leave the country temporarily (like a week or two), obtain the visa and return to the property. There's no requirement to be in continuous occupation of the rented property. Someone else could move in to mind the property while she's gone.

There was a case a couple of years back about an immigrant worker who was working insane hours and getting paid pittance in the kitchen of some dingy takeaway. He was fired and took a case to sue for the underpayment of wages, whereon he was awarded something like €80,000. His former boss appealed on the grounds that as an illegal worker he was not entitled to make any civil claims under employment law, and the boss won. No compensation despite having been treated basically like a slave for some stupid amount of years. Can't find a link at the moment.

So the same could theoretically be used here; as someone with an expired visa she has no entitlement to be in the country therefore cannot deal with the PRTB.

Getting the visa sorted should be priority one.

Michael D Not Higgins

seamus wrote: »

There was a case a couple of years back about an immigrant worker who was working insane hours and getting paid pittance in the kitchen of some dingy takeaway. He was fired and took a case to sue for the underpayment of wages, whereon he was awarded something like €80,000. His former boss appealed on the grounds that as an illegal worker he was not entitled to make any civil claims under employment law, and the boss won. No compensation despite having been treated basically like a slave for some stupid amount of years. Can't find a link at the moment.

They should have then fined him 80k for hiring illegal workers.

Timberrrrrrrr

seamus wrote: »

The PRTB may in fact be prevented from assisting her by virtue of her status. Though that's not to say she can't leave the country temporarily (like a week or two), obtain the visa and return to the property. There's no requirement to be in continuous occupation of the rented property. Someone else could move in to mind the property while she's gone.

There was a case a couple of years back about an immigrant worker who was working insane hours and getting paid pittance in the kitchen of some dingy takeaway. He was fired and took a case to sue for the underpayment of wages, whereon he was awarded something like €80,000. His former boss appealed on the grounds that as an illegal worker he was not entitled to make any civil claims under employment law, and the boss won. No compensation despite having been treated basically like a slave for some stupid amount of years. Can't find a link at the moment.

So the same could theoretically be used here; as someone with an expired visa she has no entitlement to be in the country therefore cannot deal with the PRTB.

Getting the visa sorted should be priority one.

T'was this lad

http://www.thejournal.ie/restaurant-worker-awarded-e86000-after-years-of-forced-labour-in-dublin-225856-Sep2011/

A RESTAURANT WORKER who was forced to work for seven years for paltry pay and almost no days off has been awarded €86,000 by the Labour Court.
Muhammad Younis, who is originally from Pakistan, worked as a chef at the Poppadom restaurant in Clondalkin from 2002 to 2009 in what have been described as ‘chronic conditions’ by the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland (MRCI).

then

http://www.newstalk.ie/exploited-worker-denied-compensation-due-to-illegal-status

The High Court has overturned a Labour Court ruling in which a Dublin restaurant was ordered to pay an exploited migrant worker €86,000.

Amjad Hussein – trading as the Poppadom Restaurant in Newlands Cross – has successfully challenged the decision because of the illegal status of his employee Muhammad Younis.

Young Blood

I spoke to electric Ireland this morning and they said the electricity wasn't cut off. It is a one bedroom apartment in a townhouse and each apartment has its own meter reader and the electricity is in the landlords name.

I also tried replacing the fuse for her but it didn't work.

We contacted the landlady but she never answers and is totally neglectful when it comes to repairing anything. It can take up to a week before she will respond.

She is an old fashioned landlord. She comes up from the country once a week and then disappears until the next. Her son is living on the same street as far as i know.

the_syco

Young Blood wrote: »

An expired student visa. But im sure that doesnt negate her human rights.

Does the landlady know this, and is she using this against her?

Young Blood wrote: »

no notice was given. But the landlady has been pressuring her to move out the last couple of months. The landlady has also refused to collect last months rent.

Last couple of months? How many of the four months that she was staying there did the landlady want her out? Doesn't add up. Unless she has been there longer than the last four months, and is in arrears?

Young Blood wrote: »

I spoke to electric Ireland this morning and they said the electricity wasn't cut off. It is a one bedroom apartment in a townhouse and each apartment has its own meter reader and the electricity is in the landlords name.

I also tried replacing the fuse for her but it didn't work.

So in the end, it wasn't the landlady/landlord(?). You may need to fork out money for electrician to look at it.

Anyhoos, where is she from? I'm assuming non-EU, as otherwise she could just get a job, and she'd be a legal migrant.

The_Conductor

Young Blood- please answer the questions I posed.

Regards,

The_Conductor

Young Blood

The_Conductor wrote: »

Does the tenant have a lease?
Are they renting the property in its entirety?
Are they there with the specific and forewarned knowledge and acceptance of the landlord (aka- if they took over from someone else- was the permission of the landlord sought, and granted)?
Are there other housemates?
If not- when did they leave and under what circumstances?
If there were previously- is the current tenant paying the rent for the entire property now- or are they attempting to only pay the rent for a single room, in a property in which they are the sole tenant?

There are more questions here than answers.

She has a verbal lease agreement.
Yes it is a one bedroom flat with exclusive possession.
There are no other housemates.

The_Conductor

In which case- the landlord is perfectly within his/her rights to ask her to leave. They don't have to give a reason- and it is not up to you to speculate- it is their prerogative to ask the tenant to leave, she has been there 4 months, and doesn't have a written lease. She has been asked to leave. The rent was not accepted- as she has been asked to vacate the property. Had she been there 6 months- she would have had the right to refuse to leave, however, she was asked to leave, before she was there 6 months- so she doesn't have the right to dispute it.

The issue with the electricity/lack thereof- would appear to be a separate issue- from the little you've told us, and its entirely possible its coincidental- though obviously you are reading a lot more into it- given the circumstances.

The tenant has been requested to leave. She is effectively living there rent-free now- as the rent was not collected. The next step is for the landlord to issue official eviction proceedings- why you want to allow things to escalate going down this road- I don't know.

The tenant needs to find alternate accommodation- and move. Period.

D3PO

Whilst whats occuring form a tennancy perspective here is a disgrace I find it hard to have any sympathy for somebody here illegally.

I hope both the Landlady and your friend get their comeuppance.

foggy_lad

OP It sounds like the landlady has pulled out the main fuse or has some switch to enable turning off power to individual units.

Also I would imagine her next step could be to ring the Gardai immigration bureau and report your girlfriend being here illegally.

cluelez

OP I suggest you bring your girlfriend to your relatives and stay there until you sort out her's immigration status.
If you have known here for over 2 years you can ask INIS about de-facto relationship visa.

Man up!

Young Blood

The_Conductor wrote: »

In which case- the landlord is perfectly within his/her rights to ask her to leave. They don't have to give a reason- and it is not up to you to speculate- it is their prerogative to ask the tenant to leave, she has been there 4 months, and doesn't have a written lease. She has been asked to leave. The rent was not accepted- as she has been asked to vacate the property. Had she been there 6 months- she would have had the right to refuse to leave, however, she was asked to leave, before she was there 6 months- so she doesn't have the right to dispute it.

The issue with the electricity/lack thereof- would appear to be a separate issue- from the little you've told us, and its entirely possible its coincidental- though obviously you are reading a lot more into it- given the circumstances.

The tenant has been requested to leave. She is effectively living there rent-free now- as the rent was not collected. The next step is for the landlord to issue official eviction proceedings- why you want to allow things to escalate going down this road- I don't know.

The tenant needs to find alternate accommodation- and move. Period.

She has not been asked to leave. She is being pressured to leave. No written notice was given to her. It would make a lot more sense if there was.

I think the reason no written notice was given is becuase the landlady doesn't want to expose herself to an unfair eviction suit.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Young Blood wrote: »

She has not been asked to leave. She is being pressured to leave. No written notice was given to her. It would make a lot more sense if there was.

OP. Does it really matter at this stage? At the end of the day, the LL wants your GF out, why in the name of God does she want to stay?

What do you think will happen? Your GF will remain in situ and the LL will just happily accept that? Unlikely. Whatever about normal circumstances, your GF is in the country illegally (and that's a topic for another day..........). If the LL knows this, what is to stop her from going to the Gardaí? For God's sake, she has (allegedly) cut off the electricity? Do you think she will have any qualms about reporting your girlfriend?

You said in your first post that your GF is a human being. That's right, she is. Why aren't you showing her some humanity by offering her a roof over her head while she is in this situation instead of posting to a load of randomers on the internet?

Arbiter of Good Taste

Young Blood wrote: »

I think the reason no written notice was given is becuase the landlady doesn't want to expose herself to an unfair eviction suit.

So far you have given no evidence that the eviction is illegal. Just sounds to me like an unprofessional landlord.

ted1

You may need to get an electrician it could simple be an issue with the electrics

Grandpa Hassan

Young Blood wrote: »

She has not been asked to leave. She is being pressured to leave. No written notice was given to her. It would make a lot more sense if there was.

I think the reason no written notice was given is becuase the landlady doesn't want to expose herself to an unfair eviction suit.

There would be no 'unfair eviction suit' upon giving a written notice. Your GF is within the first 6 months, and therefore can be evicted with no reason given.

But I would echo other posters....why on earth would she want to stay?

JustAddWater

GarIT wrote: »

The landlady could get in trouble for knowingly aiding an illegal immigrant to stay in the country, if it was me I'd want the remnant out ASAP which I think is reasonable given the circumstances. She is being nice by not contacting the gardai IMO.

Cutting off the electricity? Yeah really nice. She sounds lovely.

Don't confuse the LL not going to the Gardai because she is being 'nice' with the fact that she herself is the one doing something that's quite possibly illegal

Graham

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

There would be no 'unfair eviction suit' upon giving a written notice. Your GF is within the first 6 months, and therefore can be evicted with no reason given.

Assuming notice has been given (verbally or otherwise) do the laws that prescribe a legal/illegal eviction still apply?

_Kaiser_

Let's all take a step back here.. lots of conflicting back n forth here muddying the waters..

- First off, the ESB have confirmed the electricity was NOT cut off. It may be a fault or something the landlady has done (but without an electrician or contacting the landlady there's no way to know for sure)

- The OP's GF is in the place < 6 months and so can be asked to leave at any point (as confirmed by TC). Part 4 rights do not apply.

- The OP's GF has an expired Visa. Separate to this issue but important she get that sorted (if possible)

Bottom line (as far as I can tell) is that the Landlady (while being a bit of a prat about it) is perfectly entitled to ask the OP's GF to leave ASAP. That's what she (the GF) should do.

It's a crappy situation that could have been handled better by the Landlady (and I certainly wouldn't want to rent from her either) but there's no alternatives for the OP's GF from what I can see.

Graham

I think everyone has accepted the landlady is entitled to ask the tenant to leave. What I'm not sure about (hence the questions), is the landlady entitled under the law to evict the tenant in the manner she is doing it?

Young Blood

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

There would be no 'unfair eviction suit' upon giving a written notice. Your GF is within the first 6 months, and therefore can be evicted with no reason given.

But I would echo other posters....why on earth would she want to stay?

I understand. But she still has to follow protocol and issue written notice. She can't just kick her out.