Creche closed for funeral

Pat McGhee · 08-09-2014 12:36pm #1

Hi, just hoping to get some feedback on this.

The father of the owner where my LO goes to creche passed away, (not unexpectedly) and staff contacted us to say they will be closed tomorrow as a mark of respect. Has anyone else had a similar experience and if so, were they obliged to pay the creche? Now I'm not insensitive to the man's death, but he has nothing to do with his daughter's place of business and I am having to pay someone else to look after my child tomorrow, money that, quite frankly, I can ill afford.

I already pay for them for holidays, sick days (when she picked up the illness in creche), xmas hols etc....

Thanks a mill

ZeroImpurities · 08-09-2014 12:38pm

Ah jaysis.

eviltwin · 08-09-2014 1:07pm

It's annoying, I can understand a small business closing where everyone in the business would be going to the funeral ie they are family but if its a larger business its not really necessary. Keeping the business open doesn't disrespect the dead. Nothing you can do about it though.

Gandhi · 08-09-2014 1:25pm

A creche is not a cafe or a sweetshop. If you can't depend on it, it is useless. Closing a creche for a day at short notice is massively disruptive to your customers. While I'd feel bad for the owner's loss, I'd be looking for a new creche the very next day.

ch750536 · 08-09-2014 2:52pm

Really people? Is money so much more important than each other?

zefer · 08-09-2014 3:02pm

ch750536 wrote: »

Really people? Is money so much more important than each other?

It's not about that, the OP already said they aren't ignorant of the fact that someone died

The creche give the OP 1 day's notice, so they have to either try take a days holiday (at cost to themselves) or pay someone else to mind baby (which in such short notice isnt easy to do and again at a cost to OP)

Creches as the OP says charge whether your child goes every day or misses a day or if you go on holidays etc, so they defo should either refund you for the day they aren't opening on such short notice or they shouldn't let all staff go to funeral.
Do you know any other parents to talk to about it? I'd imagine you aren't the only one not too happy about it
You defo should not have to pay OP.

Skybox · 08-09-2014 3:06pm

Why do you pay them for holidays/xmas holidays, etc? Surely you should only have to pay them when the child is in the creche?

mamakitten · 08-09-2014 3:10pm

Skybox wrote: »

Why do you pay them for holidays/xmas holidays, etc? Surely you should only have to pay them when the child is in the creche?

Creches have staff costs, overheads etc even when your child isnt there. Do you think the already low paid staff should get nothing over Christmas or summer holidays? its standard practice to pay at least some holidays during the year.

Re creche closing, I would be sympathetic but I don't think they should have closed, parents are relying on them for childcare and its not easy to find alternative care at a days notice.

zefer · 08-09-2014 3:10pm

Skybox wrote: »

Why do you pay them for holidays/xmas holidays, etc? Surely you should only have to pay them when the child is in the creche?

Unfortunately not, the majority of creches (any ones I've talked to) all get paid whether child is in or not. Their reasoning is usually to do with they have to pay their staff whether your johnny is on holidays or not

Neyite · 08-09-2014 3:11pm

Skybox wrote: »

Why do you pay them for holidays/xmas holidays, etc? Surely you should only have to pay them when the child is in the creche?

No, you pay for a full time place or part time place. Thats usually the pricing structure. If you take your child out for a holiday, you pay the creche. Ditto Christmas, unless the creche themselves are shut. You are paying to hold the slot for your child open.

MarkR · 08-09-2014 3:12pm

For an instance like that, particularly where you had out of pocket expenses (different childminder) then I would be expecting a 20% discount on the week.

Pat McGhee · 08-09-2014 3:17pm

zefer wrote: »

Do you know any other parents to talk to about it? I'd imagine you aren't the only one not too happy about it
You defo should not have to pay OP.

Unfortunately I don't know them outside of the creche, and I didn't really get a chance to talk to anyone this morning. I should mention that I got the call yesterday so technically they gave 2 days notice, but that's not the point.

It's a small business, but not family run. Having lost a parent myself, I certainly sympathise but when my dad passed, my job didn't shut up shop, nor did they expect clients to pay for my absence.

I know it might not seem like a lot of money, but it is to me and I have more going out than coming in this month so I really don't need the added expense.

Skybox wrote: »

Why do you pay them for holidays/xmas holidays, etc? Surely you should only have to pay them when the child is in the creche?

I pay for 51 weeks in a year - 1 week is "free" for holidays but outside of that the money secures the child's placement in the creche. If I don't pay them while on holidays, they're within their rights to "sell" her place to another child.

Neyite · 08-09-2014 3:19pm

ch750536 wrote: »

Really people? Is money so much more important than each other?

When compared to the peaceful death of someone I never met, yes, I will consider the lost days wages in addition to the potential creche fees that incur that day.

Thats not counting the inconvenience to the employer if the OP cant go in due to childcare failures. What about client meetings cancelled? Important deadlines missed? Money for the company lost? Disciplinary meetings or warnings due to absenteeisim? Loss of promotional prospects because you are seen as a flake who's childcare is patchy?

In most cases the monthly bill to a creche is well in excess of a persons mortgage or rent payment. Surely for that amount you should get reliability of service?

uck51js9zml2yt · 08-09-2014 3:28pm

If I was expected to pay for the creche closure I'd be going somewhere else.
Definitely wouldn't be paying for them closing for a funeral.
While I paid for my son being in montessori whether he was there or not I never paid where they chose to close or for term breaks etc.
Had to pay a month to keep his place while my wife went home with the kids for the summer.

I'd be deducing the cost of 1day from next month. I think that's as much as you could expect.
I really don't understand why you're paying for the times they close for holidays.
The out should be aggregated over the year to cover costs of holiday closures

mikom · 08-09-2014 3:33pm

ch750536 wrote: »

Really people? Is money so much more important than each other?

Say that to the creche when you are late with next months fees and see how you get on.........

mapaca · 08-09-2014 4:56pm

OP, when your child started in the crèche did you get a copy of their terms and conditions of service? Might be worth having a look to see if there is any procedure in place to allow for the crèche having to close at short notice. I'm sure they're well aware that they will have put people out by closing for the day.

pwurple · 08-09-2014 4:58pm

You shouldn't have to pay it, but crikey bringing it up is going to be very awkward. If you wait a while, maybe there will be a letter home about a deduction from next months fee for it?

Yer Aul One · 08-09-2014 5:05pm

pwurple wrote: »

If you wait a while, maybe there will be a letter home about a deduction from next months fee for it?

Would seriously doubt it, without some parents kicking up a fuss.

GarIT · 08-09-2014 5:07pm

The creche should be arranging and paying for your alternate childcare unless they have given you a weeks notice.

They wont, but they should. I'd be moving creche.

ZeroImpurities · 08-09-2014 5:13pm

If my father died, I would not keep business as usual. It is accepted that you close your business out of respect for the dead.

GarIT · 08-09-2014 5:14pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

If my father died, I would not keep business as usual. It is accepted that you close your business out of respect for the dead.

Not by me it isn't. What is this respect? The man isn't going to die if the creche is open he can't be offended either. There are other staff, they can and should still be working.

eviltwin · 08-09-2014 5:25pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

If my father died, I would not keep business as usual. It is accepted that you close your business out of respect for the dead.

The OP doesn't expect the owner to be there I'm sure, it's not a family business so presumably the rest of the staff are related to the dead man, you can't seriously expect everyone to take the day off. Most companies I know wouldn't close on account of the death of a staff members parent, that is no way to run a business.

ZeroImpurities · 08-09-2014 5:27pm

eviltwin wrote: »

The OP doesn't expect the owner to be there I'm sure, it's not a family business so presumably the rest of the staff are related to the dead man, you can't seriously expect everyone to take the day off. Most companies I know wouldn't close on account of the death of a staff members parent, that is no way to run a business.

I worked in one small business where their father died. The business was closed for 3 days. Simple as that.

shruikan2553 · 08-09-2014 5:30pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

I worked in one small business where their father died. The business was closed for 3 days. Simple as that.

Did the business charge the customers for the days they couldnt use the place?

Yer Aul One · 08-09-2014 5:33pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

I worked in one small business where their father died. The business was closed for 3 days. Simple as that.

Rural town?

ZeroImpurities · 08-09-2014 5:34pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Did the business charge the customers for the days they couldnt use the place?

If anyone had taken issue with it, they would have been advised to find a different service provider. No-one took issue.

ZeroImpurities · 08-09-2014 5:35pm

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Rural town?

'Rural' and 'town' are strange bedfellows.

Yer Aul One · 08-09-2014 5:39pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

If anyone had taken issue with it, they would have been advised to find a different service provider. No-one took issue.

This lad...

GarIT · 08-09-2014 5:46pm

OP, they agreed to provide you with a service and cancelled at short notice, if they don't cover themselves in the T&Cs you would be entitled to your out of pocket expenses as a result of not performing the service they agreed to, you could get this in the small claims court.

m'lady · 08-09-2014 5:47pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

If anyone had taken issue with it, they would have been advised to find a different service provider. No-one took issue.

That's not really answering the question?

I think it's ridiculous, there will be many parents trying to organise alternative arrangements, and no doubt may find it impossible at this stage. There is absolutely no reason that the staff couldn't cover tomorrow. Whatever about a shop/ pub etc closing, a crèche closing is absurd!

nc19 · 08-09-2014 5:56pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

'Rural' and 'town' are strange bedfellows.

Longford Town is a town and having been there for 45mins a few years ago I can confirm 2 things; It is rural and 45mins there is 45mins too long

ZeroImpurities · 08-09-2014 6:03pm

nc19 wrote: »

Longford Town is a town and having been there for 45mins a few years ago I can confirm 2 things; It is rural and 45mins there is 45mins too long

Longford town is more of a sort of place you bypass. You did well to last 45 minutes!

eviltwin · 08-09-2014 6:08pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

I worked in one small business where their father died. The business was closed for 3 days. Simple as that.

Family business is one thing, the death of one member of staff though?

Gandhi · 08-09-2014 6:46pm

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

I worked in one small business where their father died. The business was closed for 3 days. Simple as that.

Was it a creche, though? Not really relevant unless it's being closed for 3 days meant that every single customer had to either take time off work, or scramble to get babysitters for 3 days.

Cienciano · 08-09-2014 6:52pm

Gandhi wrote: »

A creche is not a cafe or a sweetshop. If you can't depend on it, it is useless. Closing a creche for a day at short notice is massively disruptive to your customers. While I'd feel bad for the owner's loss, I'd be looking for a new creche the very next day.

As someone who uses a creche, I agree with this.

salmocab · 08-09-2014 6:59pm

Really depends on the size of the creche regarding whether it shuts or not although paying would be a bit much Id give the owner the benefit of the doubt on that for now, if its a small creche with say 6 staff and 2 or 3 are attending the funeral then with the legal requirements on ratios it would be pretty impossible to open but if it has 16 or 17 employees and 2 or 3 are going then they could probably organize to open especially if they just closed their sessional classes.

lukesmom · 08-09-2014 7:06pm

Now closing a crèche for a funeral is beyond ridiculous. What are the parents meant to do? Where are all the kids meant to go? Very unprofessional in my opinion.

Moonbeam · 08-09-2014 7:15pm

I was thinking about this..Is it a small creche?
Could it have been that they did not have sufficient child to staff rations if the family were at the funeral to legally open?

December2012 · 08-09-2014 7:21pm

Moonbeam wrote: »

I was thinking about this..Is it a small creche?
Could it have been that they did not have sufficient child to staff rations if the family were at the funeral to legally open?

I was thinking that too - maybe by having one or two out, even for a short amount of time the ratios could be off.

Ficheall · 08-09-2014 8:28pm

Well, if taking such a practical view of things, perhaps OP should stick with the current creche, given that the owner now has at most one parent to lose inconveniently.

pwurple · 08-09-2014 9:50pm

Moonbeam wrote: »

I was thinking about this..Is it a small creche?
Could it have been that they did not have sufficient child to staff rations if the family were at the funeral to legally open?

How would they normally deal with staff illness or holidays though if that was the case?

The creche my child goes to had a few of the staff go sick simultaniously, and they asked the parents if we could reduce hours that week as they were having difficulty getting replacements. They spoke to us by phone, and we were able to oblige. We were not charged for the hours.

The owner/manager is probably shaken and not thinking through their communication or how they will charge.

Give it a couple of weeks to settle and address it (sensitively) before the next payment would be my advice.

Have you any interaction with other parents to see how they were affected?

ZeroImpurities · 08-09-2014 10:25pm

pwurple wrote: »

The owner/manager is probably shaken and not thinking through their communication or how they will charge.

Give it a couple of weeks to settle and address it (sensitively) before the next payment would be my advice.

Have you any interaction with other parents to see how they were affected?

The first two sentences

GarIT · 08-09-2014 11:54pm

If there is a problem with staff there is always temp agencies. They could put an ad out saying they are looking for garda vetted locals for a few days work.

lazygal · 09-09-2014 8:38am

GarIT wrote: »

If there is a problem with staff there is always temp agencies. They could put an ad out saying they are looking for garda vetted locals for a few days work.

That's not always as easy as it sounds. Creches need specific staff, e.g. FETAC level 6 for those teaching preschool classes under the ECCE scheme. If the creche is in a small area access to suitably qualified and vetted staff at short notice may be impossible.
OP I would wait a week or so (or until the next month's fee is due) before asking about a refund. I would have thought one of the advantages of a creche is that you don't have to deal with a minder needing time off at short notice.

greengirl31 · 09-09-2014 8:59am

I had a similar issue a couple of years ago with my daughters afterschool provider. They provide the afterschool service for a number of local schools but all the schools don’t have the same holidays, particularly the odd days between Easter and summer. Anyway, they called us about a week before my daughter’s school was closed and apologised that they couldn’t take her that day cause they had children in that morning and just nowhere to facilitate the children from my daughters class that day. To say it was a pain in the @ss is an understatement and at the time I was fuming. I was considering how to approach them about the payment for the day that they couldn’t provide the service. Then when I took the long view, I though it wasn’t in my best interest. These people look after my daughter very well every day, she loves it there and I know they’re very fond of her, as they are with all the kids. They go the extra mile for me and my daughter and I am more than happy with the service they provide. Had I started moaning about the few quid I felt that it may have changed their opinion of me and my daughter (it shouldn’t have but human nature is a strange thing) and in turn soured our relationship.

I agree that you do need to be able to depend on a crèche but in the grand scheme of things, it’s one day – the owners father had just died and she probably wasn’t thinking straight so give them a break

Sheldons Brain · 09-09-2014 9:30am

zefer wrote: »

It's not about that, the OP already said they aren't ignorant of the fact that someone died

The creche give the OP 1 day's notice, so they have to either try take a days holiday (at cost to themselves) or pay someone else to mind baby (which in such short notice isnt easy to do and again at a cost to OP)
.

It was insensitive of the person concerned to die without more notice. I'd suggest finding a business where people die by appointment only.

Neyite · 09-09-2014 9:45am

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

It was insensitive of the person concerned to die without more notice. I'd suggest finding a business where people die by appointment only.

Funnily enough, I had a supervisor who, when I asked to book time off to attend my uncles funeral, told me that he would have to decline the annual leave day as I didnt give the required 2 weeks notice.

I agreed sarcastically that it was most inconsiderate of my youngish healthy uncle to suddenly drop dead without taking into consideration our staff handbook. Thankfully the idiot was overruled by our more sensible general manager.

Moonbeam · 09-09-2014 9:56am

GarIT wrote: »

If there is a problem with staff there is always temp agencies. They could put an ad out saying they are looking for garda vetted locals for a few days work.

You need to be vetted for every place separately.

IvyTheTerrible · 09-09-2014 12:56pm

If my son's creche closes unexpectedly (it hasn't happened yet but it is stipulated in the contract), we don't have to pay for the day missed. It's the least I'd expect.

KCC · 09-09-2014 8:58pm

Pat McGhee wrote: »

The father of the owner where my LO goes to creche passed away, (not unexpectedly) and staff contacted us to say they will be closed tomorrow as a mark of respect. Has anyone else had a similar experience and if so, were they obliged to pay the creche? Now I'm not insensitive to the man's death, but he has nothing to do with his daughter's place of business and I am having to pay someone else to look after my child tomorrow, money that, quite frankly, I can ill afford.

I already pay for them for holidays, sick days (when she picked up the illness in creche), xmas hols etc....

What an awkward situation. It's definitely a bad decision on the part of the creche. I would also bring this up with the other parents to get their views. I would then raise the issue with the creche (ideally not directly with the owner given her troubles, but perhaps with the creche manager or another senior member of staff). I would empathise with the situation they found themselves in, but explain the difficulties it caused for you (e.g. loss of earnings), that you were surprised by the decision and that you would feel it's only fair that you not pay for the day in question. It's not as if it's a café or clothes shop - you have paid for the service, likely in advance.

farmchoice · 10-09-2014 11:17am

The amount of petty minded meanness and general me fein-isim on this thread is unbelievable, a person's father dies, the person who you entrust your children to and all some people think about is the few pound and the inconvenience to them.
I really hope that when one of your parents or any family member dies that you are not subject to the crap that you are heaping on this woman.
I have never come across such pathetic pettiness on this forum before.

Those of you who reacted in such a shameful way really need to have a long hard look at yourselves, god, I hope you can raise your children to be bigger people they you are with a little bit more humanity and concern for there fellow man in times of hardship.

Creche closed for funeral

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