2015 Audi A6 Ultra

Leonard Hofstadter

As some of you may know, the A6 is going to be facelifted in time for next year. In fact, the facelifted model has just gone on sale in Germany.

As per usual with Audi facelifts, it's of the "looks no different to the pre-facelifted car" variety.

Perhaps the most interesting model in the Irish context is the ultra version, or rather, one of the ultra versions. The current car just received a 2.0 TDI ultra, with 187 bhp and does impressive mpg and CO2 and all of that kind of thing. The new car will also have this engine, plus a less powerful version with a measley 148 bhp, so obviously that model will be best avoided, not least because it's barely any more economical than the 187 bhp version and won't be any cheaper to tax (which as we know, is very important to the Irish).

More interesting, however, is that there will be a facelifted A6 with a 1.8 TFSI, which has the same 187 bhp as the more powerful 2.0 TDI.

I can't see I care too much for an A6 that's not a quattro model, as the standard cars are wrong wheel drive, but if I had to choose a fuel efficient executive car at a sensible price point, this car surely merits further attention.

I can't help but feel that for many executive car buyers, this makes a lot more sense than a diesel. It will obviously be a LOT more executive-like to drive for starters.

While it is important not to get too carried away, as it is just a four cylinder engine, it is nevertheless a petrol engine so that means it will be much quieter and much smoother through the pedals than a clatterbox poverty spec four cylinder diesel that is the norm in these type of cars.

And it's got a turbo before the diesel fanbois get worked up about a 'lack of torque' (which you don't need anyway if you know how to use a gearbox) - 236 lb ft to be precise. I seem to recall that the 2.0 TDI A6 had that much only a few years ago. Obviously being petrol it will have other advantages from a driving perspective; superior throttle response, (a much) wider powerband, willingness to be revved (a moot point admittedly in an executive car), better handling because of the lighter front end (another moot point admittedly in a very large wrong wheel drive car) and so on.

The other advantages of a petrol powered car of course relate to low mileage buyers and those who use them mostly around town. I know a lot of these cars are used as company cars and driven by high mileage motorists (at least when new) but not every executive car buyer does this and some people buy these cars privately. So, a petrol powered car will be cheaper to buy and no DMF or DPF to worry about. I'm not sure about the A6, but some Euro 6 diesels will need AdBlue to keep the non CO2 emissions hunky dorey, that means it will be more expensive to service than a petrol (which won't need it).

The clincher, though has got to be the mpg and CO2, and thus motor tax. Of course, the diesel is better, but the petrol is still very good even allowing for that fact it is a wrong wheel drive A6 with a small capacity engine. It is now possible to buy an executive car that's not diesel but still offers sensible running costs. The 1.8 TFSI manual does a claimed 47.8 mpg and CO2 of 137 g/km, so €280 motor tax. The automatic is an 'ultra' model, and that does even better, with CO2 of 133 g/km and a claimed 49.6 mpg.

Granted, the diesel is 115 g/km (or 113 if you get the automatic) and €200 motor tax, and it will have better resale value, but still, it would take you 12 1/2 years to get back the tax savings of the diesel if a DPF replacement lightened your wallet by €1000.

But at last, there is finally an inexpensive to buy and run alternative to the default clatterbox four cylinder diesel option that over 95% of buyers choose. Now all we need is for Audi to price the petrol model comfortably below the diesel and for the average low mileage executive buyer to use their imagination and buy it instead of the default diesel!

Casati

I posted recently about buying a Mazda 6 2.0 petrol versus a 2.2 diesel to avoid the diesel issues and save about 3k on the purchase, and was advised by everybody that it would be madness & diesel is the only sane purchase in that class. The dealers basically said although the petrol is on the price list, that nobody orders it and as such they would strongly advise against - similar to the Audi its Band B tax versus Band A for the diesel and has 150 bhp versus 155bhp


Unless the petrol A6 is 5k cheaper than the 150 bhp diesel, then it likely won't sell either at all, and looking at recent Audi A6/A4 pricing, I can't see that happening.

My guess is that similar to the 5 series, almost every 2015 you see will be the 150 bhp version, and if they launched a 120 bhp with cheap tax that would become the best seller in Ireland too!

Y2KBOS86

How are they getting 187bhp from a 2.0 turbo diesel and only 187bhp from a 1.8 turbo petrol?

Shouldn't they be able to get way more power out of the petrol, it should be minimum 250bhp from the petrol it they can get 187bhp out of a diesel.

Bmw are the same getting almost 300bhp from the 535d and and barely over 300bhp from 535i ( twin turbo petrol ), that engine should be pushing out over 400bhp easy.

No wonder petrol is struggling.

Sobanek

The 306hp 535i supposedly has great tuning opportunities, like the 335i.
JB4 Stage 2 apparently gives you another 80hp (386hp total), where the most you can squeeze out of a 35d/40d is 350hp with a chip (remap gives you 345hp).

And that's why I don't like the new M3 - it's a beefed up 335i.

BMJD

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

barely over 300bhp from 535i ( twin turbo petrol ), that engine should be pushing out over 400bhp easy.

they could easily get a lot more than that

but then less people would buy an M5!

Toyotafanboi

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

How are they getting 187bhp from a 2.0 turbo diesel and only 187bhp from a 1.8 turbo petrol?

i'd say it's to reach a fair compromise on mpg and emissions figures.

as the OP points out, the petrol engine is at a very optimum point of interest with "good" power output and also "good" mpg and tax bracket/ emissions figures. if the bhp were to drop, the engine would lack popularity in favour of the diesel... also if the engine were to gain power and mpg/ emissions suffered the engine would lack popularitty in favour of the diesel :pac:

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i'd say it's to reach a fair compromise on mpg and emissions figures.

as the OP points out, the petrol engine is at a very optimum point of interest with "good" power output and also "good" mpg and tax bracket/ emissions figures. if the bhp were to drop, the engine would lack popularity in favour of the diesel... also if the engine were to gain power and mpg/ emissions suffered the engine would lack popularitty in favour of the diesel :pac:

I'm not buying those mpg figures for the 1.8T.
Audi published similar figures when I was buying my 1.8Tfsi A5 back in 08. It gets nowhere near. It does about 30 Mpg and I figure a slightly higher powered version in the bigger A6 will achieve similar mpg assuming audi have improved efficiency a little.
Still, it should certainly have a market here but not a competitor for the diesel imo.

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

I'm not buying those mpg figures for the 1.8T.
Audi published similar figures when I was buying my 1.8Tfsi A5 back in 08. It gets nowhere near. It does about 30 Mpg and I figure a slightly higher powered version in the bigger A6 will achieve similar mpg assuming audi have improved efficiency a little.
Still, it should certainly have a market here but not a competitor for the diesel imo.

that's pretty much what i thought when i read it. that said, if it gets in or around 40mpg in the real world it would still be pretty good.

30 would be desperate after a claim of nearly 50, but you're right, it could be the reality as i believe these tests can be heavily manipulated.

that said, i would have expected more than 47 from the diesel too.

George Dalton

In the real world the diesel will return 50mpg, the petrol 35mpg. The petrol will be worth far less come resale time. So even if the diesel does give some extra trouble (which is not at all certain) then you would still be better off buying it.

_Kaiser_

Aside from the "wrong wheel", "clatterbox", "diesel fanboi" stuff (not everyone wants or likes a BMW 3/5), that's not a bad OP really.

Your average middle/upper-management type who's driving this won't care about powerband, throttle response, potential DPF issues etc as it's likely a company car anyway. All they're bothered about is the badge on the front and how it looks when you turn up to meetings - the people buying the cars for them will care even less.
As an example, I was at a vendor event last week in town where the target audience was IT CTOs/decision makers and the car park was filled with BMWs, Audis, Mercs and Range Rovers.. to the point where the guy who arrived in a Golf looked woefully out of place.

People here have become so conditioned by the idea of diesel = cheaper fuel + cheaper tax notion since 2008 that any petrol is a hard sell .. even though it may be the better choice in the long run!

Gazzmonkey

I see some people still think diesel engines are Smokey, noisy, powerless 'clatterboxes' !!!

I used to think that too, but I took the plunge and bought one with modern CR TDI engine and it would genuinely remind you of a petrol engine. Super smooth & responsive power delivery, surprisingly quite (for a diesel), no horrid vibrations or smokey exhausts and really easy to stall just like a petrol engine.

But then some are just biased I guess !!

Still miss the high rev scream of my previous petrol cars though.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Sobanek wrote: »

The 306hp 535i supposedly has great tuning opportunities, like the 335i.
JB4 Stage 2 apparently gives you another 80hp (386hp total), where the most you can squeeze out of a 35d/40d is 350hp with a chip (remap gives you 345hp).

And that's why I don't like the new M3 - it's a beefed up 335i.

535d can be remapped to 400bhp+, even the pre LCI e60 models.
The newer ones I'd imagine would be more easily remapped.

I saw one in the UK running 400bhp, albeit with a totally different cooling setup.

dr.fuzzenstein

Regardless of the usual diesel vs petrol argument, which I won't get into at this point, this thread is irrelevant.
Power, acceleration, noise, handling, etc are of absolutely no consequence, the most important thing about this car is that its big and has a choice of miserable, wheezy, underpowered engines for the cheaaaaaap tax, so people can drive big, shiney cars that don't go.
You would have to buy one of those in a civilised country, maybe then you'd get a choiceof proper engines running either juice, but what you get here may look ok, but since it won't go and be driven by people who know zero about cars, it really doesn't matter.
Jayz, 'tis great, jusht the saaame as dem quaaatros.

Slattsy

Is there a new A4 due this year too?

MuppetCheck

Slattsy wrote: »

Is there a new A4 due this year too?

Late this year/early next I think.

Slattsy

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Late this year/early next I think.

Thanks.

Might make the current model a tad cheaper once it comes out.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

OSI wrote: »

Diesels are outselling Petrols in most European countries.

Not to the same level as here though.
Even the UK, with the exception of fleet sales, doesnt sell as many diesels (*pro rata*) as we do.

Slattsy

I drive a petrol. Will always drive a petrol as both myself and future Mrs Slattsy work in Dublin city centre and have multiple options to get into work each day. We could actually walk in in about 40 mins truth be told.

If I wanted to buy a brand new petrol I'd never sell it, apart from trading in each time.
I'll probably be looking for a car next year and there's very few petrol out there.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Slattsy wrote: »

I drive a petrol. Will always drive a petrol as both myself and future Mrs Slattsy work in Dublin city centre and have multiple options to get into work each day. We could actually walk in in about 40 mins truth be told.

If I wanted to buy a brand new petrol I'd never sell it, apart from trading in each time.
I'll probably be looking for a car next year and there's very few petrol out there.

That;s the problem as well though, multiple reports of dealers telling people looking to buy new petrols that they won't take them in as trade ins down the line.

Slattsy

Yeah they'll probably struggle to sell it on themselves. But would have thought they'd be willing to trade all the same if it means a half decent sale?

I'm slightly worried how I'll get rid of this petrol already and chances are I won't be looking to change until next summer.

MuppetCheck

Slattsy wrote: »

Yeah they'll probably struggle to sell it on themselves. But would have thought they'd be willing to trade all the same if it means a half decent sale?

I'm slightly worried how I'll get rid of this petrol already and chances are I won't be looking to change until next summer.

If the car is clean, well looked after and a nice spec I wouldn't worry too much. It will be harder to sell but there is still a market there for them. Will just take a bit longer. There are people out there who will want the petrol, albeit at a lower price.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

MuppetCheck wrote: »

If the car is clean, well looked after and a nice spec I wouldn't worry too much. It will be harder to sell but there is still a market there for them. Will just take a bit longer. There are people out there who will want the petrol, albeit at a lower price.

+1
I'd say that come time to change, it would be better trying to sell privately or chucking it to an auction rather than trying to get a dealer to accept a three year old petrol family car.

Gazzmonkey

MuppetCheck wrote: »

If the car is clean, well looked after and a nice spec I wouldn't worry too much. It will be harder to sell but there is still a market there for them. Will just take a bit longer. There are people out there who will want the petrol, albeit at a lower price.

Are petrol cars really that hard to sell in Ireland?

The country must be mad for diesels.

Truckermal

What were they thinking putting the word Ultra after a supposedly executive car..:rolleyes:

tossy

Truckermal wrote: »

What were they thinking putting the word Ultra after a supposedly executive car..:rolleyes:

Appealing to the gillette Mach 3 brigade, words like Ultra sell things. That's how dim the majority of us are now.

Truckermal

tossy wrote: »

Appealing to the gillette Mach 3 brigade, words like Ultra sell things. That's how dim the majority of us are now.

I had thought of Ariel Ultra washing powder....:)

Senecio

Putting the petrol/diesel argument aside, what I don't understand is the need for a 187HP version of the 1.8 TFSI. Why not just use the 2.0 TFSI which is a far more suitable engine for this body surely. It wouldn't be a stretch to get the 2.0 down into Tax Band B surely?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Senecio wrote: »

Putting the petrol/diesel argument aside, what I don't understand is the need for a 187HP version of the 1.8 TFSI. Why not just use the 2.0 TFSI which is a far more suitable engine for this body surely. It wouldn't be a stretch to get the 2.0 down into Tax Band B surely?

Smaller engine capacity with more turbo suits manuafacturers more i'd imagine.

-Shorter life, meaning that it will be scrapped after 10 years rather than 15
-Easier to pass the fake emissions test with a smaller capacity engine I'd imagine.

HandsomeDan

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Smaller engine capacity with more turbo suits manuafacturers more i'd imagine.

-Shorter life, meaning that it will be scrapped after 10 years rather than 15
-Easier to pass the fake emissions test with a smaller capacity engine I'd imagine.

Smaller capcity turboed engines are more efficient than their larher equivlents due to reduced mass reduced friction lighter cam loading higher pressures etc etc

What ever your opinion of the standardised test. It is just that standardised. And it is a perfectly valid way to compare engine efficiency

Jesus.

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

I see some people still think diesel engines are Smokey, noisy, powerless 'clatterboxes' !!!I used to think that too, but I took the plunge and bought one with modern CR TDI engine and it would genuinely remind you of a petrol engine. Super smooth & responsive power delivery, surprisingly quite (for a diesel), no horrid vibrations or smokey exhausts and really easy to stall just like a petrol engine.But then some are just biased I guess !!Still miss the high rev scream of my previous petrol cars though.

Having read the debates on this Forum for the last year or two, I realise its just entirely down to personal preference.

For example, the OP seems to like a car you can "rev freely" as do most car guys from what I've observed. Some drivers though prefer a car you don't have to work hard and feels nice and effortless to drive. That's why I'll always prefer diesels for driving experience - even though I've never owned one personally (the missus does ).

That will sound like sacrilege to petrol heads but there are some SHMOKE heads out there too!

(Right Cleve? )

tossy

Truckermal wrote: »

I had thought of Ariel Ultra washing powder....:)

The best damn washing power on the market!

dr.fuzzenstein

OSI wrote: »

Same power and perfomance as the Octavia RS TDI. Hardly wheezy and underpowered.

Diesels are outselling Petrols in most European countries.

Coming from Germany, the mindset is a bit different. We used to laugh and point at the 520 BMW's, "he can't even afford a proper one! Poor bastard!"
We couldn't afford it, so we only had a Golf. At least we didn't pretend.
If you're going to buy a Beemer, buy a proper one. or rather, if you are going to buy a top of the range executive saloon, buy one with more than 4 cylinders.
Ireland is completely the other way round, here you buy the 2 liter, or better even, sub 2 liter, option in the biggest car it can possibly be got. It's all about all show and no go.
It's a bit tacky and show-off, like a fake Rolex or Armani suit. Might fool a few people, but the people in the know will point and laugh.
There is absolutely no thinking of "the right engine in the right car" here. If I where to buy a large, luxury saloon, it damn well would have 6+ pots.
Anything else just looks a bit cheap and desperate.

Diesel outselling petrols, beside the point. Not getting into it here. Either one.

dr.fuzzenstein

Truckermal wrote: »

What were they thinking putting the word Ultra after a supposedly executive car..:rolleyes:

Jesus.

OSI wrote: »

Same power and perfomance as the Octavia RS TDI. Hardly wheezy and underpowered.

Smaller, lighter car though

landmarkjohn

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If I where to buy a large, luxury saloon, it damn well would have 6+ pots.
Anything else just looks a bit cheap and desperate.

Couldn't agree more, as the yanks say "ain't no substitute for cubes boy"

dr.fuzzenstein

landmarkjohn wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, as the yanks say "ain't no substitute for cubes boy"

here it is "Jaysus, I can drive an SMax with a 1 liter engine! Where's me feckin' wallet!"

whizbang

Would any of you guys actually throw your hard earned on a VAG TFSI ??

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Coming from Germany, the mindset is a bit different. We used to laugh and point at the 520 BMW's, "he can't even afford a proper one! Poor bastard!"...................
Anything else just looks a bit cheap and desperate.

Hardly a typical German view.
It seems more like Irish begrudgery, you must be here a while.

In better times I drove 520 BMWs, one a mid 90s (e34) model and the most recent a 2.2 (e60), both were great cars and more than sufficient for my needs.

I find the repeated use of wrong wheel drive in the OP a bit strange, we know, an A6 is front wheel drive .... no need to repeat it again and again and again.

tossy

Augeo wrote: »

I find the repeated use of wrong wheel drive in the OP a bit strange, we know, an A6 is front wheel drive .... no need to repeat it again and again and again.

FWD on any decent engined/spec Audi is wrong though.

lomb

Ive driven a new A5 2.0 Tdi fwd and the engine was very good for a diesel although not as good as my daily 225 1.8t 12 year old.
A6s are like A4s, A8s etc dull and boring so it doesn't matter what engine or drivetrain is in it.
All new cars are 'too dear' so buy whatever you like if you can afford it. And make sure you can afford to replace it regularly as otherwise it will affect your confidence.
Theres not too many cars I like under 60k new that's the problem with being a petrolhead! So it would cost me 30 or 35 k every 3 years which is too much.

MuppetCheck

whizbang wrote: »

Would any of you guys actually throw your hard earned on a VAG TFSI ??

If I didn't need to do the mileage I do and had ti balance running costs in some way I would have no hesitation. Best 4cyl petrol lump out there.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Jesus. wrote: »

That will sound like sacrilege to petrol heads but there are some SHMOKE heads out there too!

(Right Cleve? )

Ain't no replacement for displacement. And there certainly ain't no replacement for daysul displacement.
V8 diesel anyone? :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsgIPS_CyKQ

Old diesel

In other news - apparently a 2011 3.0 tdi A6 (new shape) can apparently be 280 tax* - that to me is bigger news then a 2.0 tdi/1.8 tfsi debate.

To me a 3 litre - 6 cylinder (I assume) regardless of what fuel is powering is a more proper engine for a big A6/5 series type car.

mind you - I was impressed to see that the claimed 0 to 60 time for an A4 2.0 tdi Ultra (161) is around 8.4 seconds - which is impressive for the ECO version - imo

*im taking it with a pinch of salt as it was claimed in an ad for one of said 3.0 tdis

Gazzmonkey

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Coming from Germany, the mindset is a bit different. We used to laugh and point at the 520 BMW's, "he can't even afford a proper one! Poor bastard!"
We couldn't afford it, so we only had a Golf. At least we didn't pretend.
If you're going to buy a Beemer, buy a proper one. or rather, if you are going to buy a top of the range executive saloon, buy one with more than 4 cylinders.
Ireland is completely the other way round, here you buy the 2 liter, or better even, sub 2 liter, option in the biggest car it can possibly be got. It's all about all show and no go.
It's a bit tacky and show-off, like a fake Rolex or Armani suit. Might fool a few people, but the people in the know will point and laugh.
There is absolutely no thinking of "the right engine in the right car" here. If I where to buy a large, luxury saloon, it damn well would have 6+ pots.
Anything else just looks a bit cheap and desperate.

Diesel outselling petrols, beside the point. Not getting into it here. Either one.

You laugh at poor people who pretend??? says more about you than the pretenders.

Luxury cars must have 6 cylinders!! What does an extra two pistons got to do with luxury?

fake Rolex or Armani suit!! really stupid comparison.

people in the know will point and laugh!! I don't even have words for this one.

Your post was full of opinions but low on facts.

Jesus.

Like it Cleve :pac:

Jesus.

captainspeed wrote: »

And it's got a turbo before the diesel fanbois get worked up about a 'lack of torque' (which you don't need anyway if you know how to use a gearbox)

Couldn't that same argument be used against the petrol-heads when they complain about a daysul's narrow power band?

Old diesel

In any case - I can see Audi simply not selling the 187 ps 1.8 tfsi in Ireland.

As for the refusing to take trade ins - I would think some of that is scaremongering.

Pretty sure theyd take the trade in if its CHEAP enough - because - if its CHEAP enough - someone WILL buy it if it means they can get into a newer car then they might otherwise do so.

What they really mean is - they won't give you a price you will be overly happy with.

What they will possibly do - is get someone in the trade to underwrite it - and yes they will only underwrite it to a very low price - but a VALUE will be set for it.

The dealier WANTS to sell you a diesel new - so of course hes going to scaremonger you with "oh I won't take the petrol back after 3 years".

Raises the question though - what does the customer wanting to avoid a DPF do - ie they do low miles or a lot of town driving - not bother buying a car at all???

dr.fuzzenstein

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

You laugh at poor people who pretend??? says more about you than the pretenders.

Luxury cars must have 6 cylinders!! What does an extra two pistons got to do with luxury?

fake Rolex or Armani suit!! really stupid comparison.

people in the know will point and laugh!! I don't even have words for this one.

Your post was full of opinions but low on facts.

Add it all together and you have a fake Armani suit and Rolex on an A8 1.8 with a fake bodykit and S8 sticker.
Sorry, did I describe you?

Gazzmonkey

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Add it all together and you have a fake Armani suit and Rolex on an A8 1.8 with a fake bodykit and S8 sticker.
Sorry, did I describe you?

Yes, you described me, I'm an A8 1.8 with a fake bodykit and S8 sticker.

Anjobe

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Luxury cars must have 6 cylinders!! What does an extra two pistons got to do with luxury?

Well, a six cylinder engine will always be much smoother and more refined than a 4 cylinder engine. This is because in a 4 cylinder 4-stroke engine only 1 cylinder can be in its power stroke at any one time. This means that the torque output from the engine spikes when each cylinder fires, then decays to 0 as that piston moves down (actually the torque goes -ve as the power stroke on one cylinder coincides with the compression stroke of the next cylinder in the sequence). This large variation of torque with time causes vibration which is only partially damped by the flywheel. The vibration is particularly noticeable on diesel engines because the torque spikes are higher and with longer time intervals between them.

An engine with more than 4 cylinders will produce less vibration because the power strokes of the cylinders overlap with one another - there is a smaller difference between the max and min torque output values and a shorter time interval between the spikes.

dr.fuzzenstein

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Yes, you described me, I'm an A8 1.8 with a fake bodykit and S8 sticker.

Cars these days are getting very smart, even posting on Boards.