The day suck calf's take over the Mart!

stack18

Is it me or the quality of the weanling's getting worse every year. A man said to me the day will come when there will be Cattle with friesan blood in them to buy and finish. At a show and sale yest something had to get the best heifer I wouldn't of picked it.! What are lads views?

frazzledhome

stack18 wrote: »

Is it me or the quality of the weanling's getting worse every year. A man said to me the day will come when there will be Cattle with friesan blood in them to buy and finish. At a show and sale yest something had to get the best heifer I wouldn't of picked it.! What are lads views?

Consumer doesn't give a shyte and the factories have clearly indicated that they don't. Beef industry will be dominated by xbred and fr dairy bulls

on the river

Sexed semen will be a major influence In the beef industry for the future.

Farrell

Very early for show & sale, generally suckler calves won't be ready for another month.
Reading other threads it doesn't look good for future of beef but time will tell.
Was at show & sales last year, thought bulls were fairly graded, but heifers were not. Any with any muscle were eliminated straight off, to me which was unfair

mahoney_j

on the river wrote: »

Sexed semen will be a major influence In the beef industry for the future.

That technology has a long road to go yet before it's use is widespread .

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

That technology has a long road to go yet before it's use is widespread .

Did they get anything out of the trial at all?

tanko

mahoney_j wrote: »

That technology has a long road to go yet before it's use is widespread .

Headline from this weeks journal, "sexed semen disappoints in herd scan".

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Did they get anything out of the trial at all?

From reading reports on journal and from guys here using it results have been fairly poor ,in heifers which should be a herds most fertile animals.its something I'd love to use.use it on my heifers and best of cows and everything else gets bb and my Hereford stock bull.not for a while yet though,don't want my calving date slipping

_Brian

What odds if they do take over.
As long as lads are able to get a turn on them, that's what counts.

Greengrass1

_Brian wrote: »

What odds if they do take over.
As long as lads are able to get a turn on them, that's what counts.

All dairy farmers want is them gone as quick as possible and if they got the price of thr straw back it'd be even better

mf240

There will be still lots of sucklers in the west.

Good friean and freisan cross beef calves will be bought by farmers and reared on. The other friesans will get the boat. And the jerseys and other dirt will be shot or tinned for pet food.

stack18

_Brian wrote: »

What odds if they do take over.
As long as lads are able to get a turn on them, that's what counts.

I'd prefer to be lookin at and putting ton of beef nuts in to a continental animal than a narrow arsed narrow back o grading animal!

frazzledhome

stack18 wrote: »

I'd prefer to be lookin at and putting ton of beef nuts in to a continental animal than a narrow arsed narrow back o grading animal!

Who cares what you prefer the factories have made it clear. Not your decision.

Damo810

stack18 wrote: »

I'd prefer to be lookin at and putting ton of beef nuts in to a continental animal than a narrow arsed narrow back o grading animal!

I'd rather my wallet be well filled. Couldn't give a ****e what I'm feeding as long as they;re making me money.

Muckit

There's no doubt about it, l can see it as it is, a lot more black and whites in fields. A lad would be foolish to go try fatten them with meal both from a poor feed conversion and factory price violitality point of view.


They'll just have to be
'bulmers british friesain bullocks'





. ...... nothing added but time

onyerbikepat

Ya, like the old days. Let them grow first, then let them fatten. I remember seeing 4 year old cattle in the marts years ago.

leg wax

if i want beef cattle i would go to a beef mart.if you want show cattle go to beef country.

Base price

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Ya, like the old days. Let them grow first, then let them fatten. I remember seeing 4 year old cattle in the marts years ago.

At least they qualify for the image of grass fed beef. Heard from that IFA meeting held in Meath that the factories will want 14 month old bull beef

TITANIUM.

frazzledhome wrote: »

Who cares what you prefer the factories have made it clear. Not your decision.

Typical Dairy man's comment. Same crap every time a beef thread opens.
Sucklers are finished.....
The factories......
Sexed semen......
Expansion of Dairy......

There's so much to say in opposition to this train of thought but I'll keep my powder dry and all I'll say is im staying put and we'll wait and see what happens.

_Brian

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Typical Dairy man's comment. Same crap every time a beef thread opens.
Sucklers are finished.....
The factories......
Sexed semen......
Expansion of Dairy......

There's so much to say in opposition to this train of thought but I'll keep my powder dry and all I'll say is im staying put and we'll wait and see what happens.

In any other business scene you'd say that the suckler operators who are performing worst will go, their not focused on making money but rather are farming the way they always have, many selling weanlings for less than the cost of production.. However the SFP is keeping lots of these lads in the business, they may loose a bit more on their stock but their SFP will keep them afloat and they'll continue to keep selling at a loss.. I can see a number of these men around me, older bachelors without chick nor child, never bought an acre nor built a house, many without a car, €5-8k SFP goes a long way in this lifestyle, particularly when many around me have their pension too.

I'd say the top 25% of suckler men will keep at it, I'd imagine those getting the top prices consistently and run a tight ship will continue to make money and helped by their SFP stay in the business..

But it would indeed appear some will change their marginal suckler enterprise for rearing dairy bred calves.. Increased dairy cow numbers should see more of these beef dairy cross animals in the market. For some this will be the right decision, its not awful hard to make money on them and they are easier handle and easier on the land and allow stocking higher numbers .. But I've seen lads start rearing them only to find out that there is more involved other than throwing milk across the gate twice a day and a shake of straw once a week.. Calf price will be a big thing.. beef X Fr calves are not worth the €350-400 that is being paid in the spring sales for them.

Mad4simmental

stack18 wrote: »

I'd prefer to be lookin at and putting ton of beef nuts in to a continental animal than a narrow arsed narrow back o grading animal!

What sickens me is all the years of genetics possibility going down the toilet. Years of breeding, research ect to try breed the premium animal to convert feed to beef like hols feed to milk.

If the factory's can hang say 400 animals in their cool room dose it not make more sence to have as much beef hanging from them hooks as possible to cut costs in labour transport ect?

It's going aginst the grain to farm this way. In 5/6 years time when everyone is feeding zebras the price factory's paying won't be any better but the feed costs will be more.

amacca

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Ya, like the old days. Let them grow first, then let them fatten. I remember seeing 4 year old cattle in the marts years ago.

I seen a shower come into a mart about 12 months ago about 3/4 years old…..It was like Jurassic Park

Monsters - 800-900kilos made about 1700-1800 couldn't understand what farmer wouldn't shift them user the 30month for the 1100/1200 mark and make room for more numbers etc

Presumed it was an older farmer or a widow or someone with thousands of acres that lets them roam free live or die old style and collects the big ones every so often when the pocket money is getting scarce…..maybe they herd with a helicopter or trawled with special nets that let the yearlings escape!

Hope we don't go back to it…..my land would have pock marks all over it.

TITANIUM.

amacca wrote: »

I seen a shower come into a mart about 12 months ago about 3/4 years old…..It was like Jurassic Park

Monsters - 800-900kilos made about 1700-1800 couldn't understand what farmer wouldn't shift them user the 30month for the 1100/1200 mark and make room for more numbers etc

Presumed it was an older farmer or a widow or someone with thousands of acres that lets them roam free live or die old style and collects the big ones every so often when the pocket money is getting scarce…..maybe they herd with a helicopter or trawled with special nets that let the yearlings escape!

Hope we don't go back to it…..my land would have pock marks all over it.

I seen a lad bring an 8year old bullock of his own to the mart, that was bad enough but he brought him home again.

TITANIUM.

_Brian wrote: »

In any other business scene you'd say that the suckler operators who are performing worst will go, their not focused on making money but rather are farming the way they always have, many selling weanlings for less than the cost of production.. However the SFP is keeping lots of these lads in the business, they may loose a bit more on their stock but their SFP will keep them afloat and they'll continue to keep selling at a loss.. I can see a number of these men around me, older bachelors without chick nor child, never bought an acre nor built a house, many without a car, €5-8k SFP goes a long way in this lifestyle, particularly when many around me have their pension too.

I'd say the top 25% of suckler men will keep at it, I'd imagine those getting the top prices consistently and run a tight ship will continue to make money and helped by their SFP stay in the business..

But it would indeed appear some will change their marginal suckler enterprise for rearing dairy bred calves.. Increased dairy cow numbers should see more of these beef dairy cross animals in the market. For some this will be the right decision, its not awful hard to make money on them and they are easier handle and easier on the land and allow stocking higher numbers .. But I've seen lads start rearing them only to find out that there is more involved other than throwing milk across the gate twice a day and a shake of straw once a week.. Calf price will be a big thing.. beef X Fr calves are not worth the €350-400 that is being paid in the spring sales for them.

You make allot of valid points Brian that I can't argue with. But I believe long term we will be forced to return to an animal that converts feed more effectively and produces the most meat per unit. That animal will not be black and white.

mf240

Lads dont throw the baby out with the bath water.

Once cattle get scarce again there will be nothing about age or weight limits.

You migth aswell suit yourself cos the factories dont know what they want and once there stuck for cattle, theyll take anything with four legs and a tail.

Base price

mf240 wrote: »

Lads dont throw the baby out with the bath water.

Once cattle get scarce again there will be nothing about age or weight limits.

You migth aswell suit yourself cos the factories dont know what they want and once there stuck for cattle, theyll take anything with four legs and a tail.

And they don't give a fiddlers if it from a Quality Assured herd or not.

amacca

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I seen a lad bring an 8year old bullock of his own to the mart, that was bad enough but he brought him home again.

He must have really liked him…maybe he was good at 5 card stud.

TITANIUM.

amacca wrote: »

He must have really liked him…maybe he was good at 5 card stud.

There could be something in that you know.
The same lad left his animals out of the shed in July. .....

frazzledhome

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Typical Dairy man's comment. Same crap every time a beef thread opens.
Sucklers are finished.....
The factories......
Sexed semen......
Expansion of Dairy......

There's so much to say in opposition to this train of thought but I'll keep my powder dry and all I'll say is im staying put and we'll wait and see what happens.

Cool the jets, dairy or not the facts are the factories don't give a shyte. If you don't know this you've been living under a stone. Sick of dicks here ramming everything people say just because they're one enterprise or another.

Stay at what you are at if you like but who'll buy them?

TITANIUM.

frazzledhome wrote: »

Cool the jets, dairy or not the facts are the factories don't give a shyte. If you don't know this you've been living under a stone. Sick of dicks here ramming everything people say just because they're one enterprise or another.

Stay at what you are at if you like but who'll buy them?

De ja vous

Damo810

TITANIUM. wrote: »

You make allot of valid points Brian that I can't argue with. But I believe long term we will be forced to return to an animal that converts feed more effectively and produces the most meat per unit. That animal will not be black and white.

You have to look at the bigger picture.

A dairy cow and dairy cross bullock is a more efficient farming unit than a 700Kg+ Charolais cow and suckler bullock.

The suckler herd won't die out, it's numbers will reduce though, and we'll see more black and white in the marts than we're used to. A lot of the calves we'll be finishing though will be Hex and AAx though, easy calving beef breeds.

frazzledhome

TITANIUM. wrote: »

De ja vous

Only telling as it is. Some just refuse to believe it

severeoversteer

Damo810 wrote: »

You have to look at the bigger picture.

A dairy cow and dairy cross bullock is a more efficient farming unit than a 700Kg+ Charolais cow and suckler bullock.

The suckler herd won't die out, it's numbers will reduce though, and we'll see more black and white in the marts than we're used to. A lot of the calves we'll be finishing though will be Hex and AAx though, easy calving beef breeds.

beef has weathered more storms than dairy and beef still commands more of the countries land than dairy

beef farmers have a more stable future than dairy as beef farmers are largely reliant on off farm income and are relatively well off bunch

once dairy is opened to the free markets there will be some very lean times on dairy farms and there will be no off farm job to save the bacon as you'll be full time pulling teats

mf240

severeoversteer wrote: »

beef has weathered more storms than dairy and beef still commands more of the countries land than dairy

beef farmers have a more stable future than dairy as beef farmers are largely reliant on off farm income and are relatively well off bunch

once dairy is opened to the free markets there will be some very lean times on dairy farms and there will be no off farm job to save the bacon as you'll be full time pulling teats

Theres no fear of us. Dont be worrying your head about us. Dairy farmers are a tougher bunch than you think.

severeoversteer

mf240 wrote: »

Theres no fear of us. Dont be worrying your head about us. Dairy farmers are a tougher bunch than you think.

if I was a dairy man id be worried but im a beef man

im slowly succumbing to some tillage but the farming is a hobby really, ill carry on farming no matter what happens and I wont be relinquishing the yellow charolais in my lifetime anyway

frazzledhome

severeoversteer wrote: »

beef has weathered more storms than dairy and beef still commands more of the countries land than dairy

beef farmers have a more stable future than dairy as beef farmers are largely reliant on off farm income and are relatively well off bunch

once dairy is opened to the free markets there will be some very lean times on dairy farms and there will be no off farm job to save the bacon as you'll be full time pulling teats

Beef, well off?
Why so many bitching about it so.
Your the first honest one I've heard.

mf240

severeoversteer wrote: »

if I was a dairy man id be worried but im a beef man

im slowly succumbing to some tillage but the farming is a hobby really, ill carry on farming no matter what happens and I wont be relinquishing the yellow charolais in my lifetime anyway

Im beef and dairy and will stay at it too. Used to keep a few sucklers too and was a great man for a good charlaois . Now im just rearing the dairy calves and am making more out of big rough p grade friesans than i was making out of the charlaois , because there mothers have a full time job so the calf is a bonus.

TITANIUM.

Damo810 wrote: »

You have to look at the bigger picture.

A dairy cow and dairy cross bullock is a more efficient farming unit than a 700Kg+ Charolais cow and suckler bullock.

The suckler herd won't die out, it's numbers will reduce though, and we'll see more black and white in the marts than we're used to. A lot of the calves we'll be finishing though will be Hex and AAx though, easy calving beef breeds.

Im talking about the big picture Damo. Your right numbers will reduce and already have I suppose.
But im looking on the Macro level.
The Dairy cross will increase short to medium term but imo will be unable to to compete with continental breeds as world food demands sky rocket.
Nobody knows for sure.

severeoversteer

frazzledhome wrote: »

Beef, well off?
Why so many bitching about it so.
Your the first honest one I've heard.

full time beef farmers are not well off

part time with a good paying job or business are doing well and this probably makes up the most beef farmers in the country


but this year all beef farmers are loosing money on every animal they produce so that's why there is such unrest and that's an honest view

as well as price disparity


but I myself am doing well as a whole as I have a few businesses

Damo810

severeoversteer wrote: »

beef has weathered more storms than dairy and beef still commands more of the countries land than dairy

beef farmers have a more stable future than dairy as beef farmers are largely reliant on off farm income and are relatively well off bunch

once dairy is opened to the free markets there will be some very lean times on dairy farms and there will be no off farm job to save the bacon as you'll be full time pulling teats

Beef was never as profitable either, certainly not in my lifetime. As for them being " relatively well off" maybe in certain parts of the country where they have larger farms and a nice big SFP to add to their off farm wage, but them being well off hasn't stemmed from a profitable farming enterprise.

As for dairy being traded on the world market, it has been discussed here at length, they'll be fine.

Brown Podzol

severeoversteer wrote: »

beef has weathered more storms than dairy and beef still commands more of the countries land than dairy

beef farmers have a more stable future than dairy as beef farmers are largely reliant on off farm income and are relatively well off bunch

once dairy is opened to the free markets there will be some very lean times on dairy farms and there will be no off farm job to save the bacon as you'll be full time pulling teats

I don't know what you mean by free markets, but if it is the world market you mean,dairy farming in Ireland has been on world market prices for years and competing successfully against the large dairy operations across the world. The same cannot be said for beef in Ireland, competing head to head against the ranchers in South America and the feed lots in the US, large scale. Whatever you may wish this is the way markets are going to go eventually, and it will be all about the price, Tesco and their likes would bring beef from the moon for a few cents a kg. There may be a few niche markets for high quality grass fed beef but they will only take a small proportion of production.

TITANIUM.

frazzledhome wrote: »

Only telling as it is. Some just refuse to believe it

Telling it as you see it F.
I tell it as I do. Who's right or wrong guess we'll see. But ill tell you this id never be so abrupt or dismissive of your enterprise. Leave the lads who know the business to it if thats what they want to do and stick to your own particular set of skills in Dairy. Which judging by a pic you posted a few months back is probably going rather well for you.
Just hope that milk price holds up from next April on.

Deepsouthwest

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Telling it as you see it F.
I tell it as I do. Who's right or wrong guess we'll see. But ill tell you this id never be so abrupt or dismissive of your enterprise. Leave the lads who know the business to it if thats what they want to do and stick to your own particular set of skills in Dairy. Which judging by a pic you posted a few months back is probably going rather well for you.
Just hope that milk price holds up from next April on.

Relax, ur getting far too worked up and getting personal doesn't do ur argument any favours. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, that's the whole idea of a forum. Most dairy guys, myself included were running some form of beef enterprise up to 5 yrs ago, but it just couldn't compete with the dairy side. As an earlier poster said dairy has been dictated by world markets for a while now, and we can compete, but if irish factories start to pay the average world price for beef, then beef in Ireland is in big big trouble.

TITANIUM.

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Relax, ur getting far too worked up and getting personal doesn't do ur argument any favours. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, that's the whole idea of a forum. Most dairy guys, myself included were running some form of beef enterprise up to 5 yrs ago, but it just couldn't compete with the dairy side. As an earlier poster said dairy has been dictated by world markets for a while now, and we can compete, but if irish factories start to pay the average world price for beef, then beef in Ireland is in big big trouble.

As George hook would say. Back up the truck.
I never mentioned anything about dairy not competing on the world market, That was another poster. Dairys doing grand and will continue to do grand as long as the milk price holds up which dairy men who know more than me about it say it will.
And im sorry to disappoint you D but im not in the slightest bit worked up. I WAS trying to highlight the fact that every time we have a beef orientated thread here, We seem to have a dairy lad telling us were all doomed fools who refuse to accept that our time is up. And our chosen method of farming is consigned to the scrap heap. And our only hope is to buy there by-product or raise there animals for them cause there to busy stocking to the max and raking it in.

In fairness most beef threads follow a similar curve.

Sucklers and beef will be grand in the long term. The bovine fluffers may disagree but as you so well put it D, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

frazzledhome

TITANIUM. wrote: »

As George hook would say. Back up the truck.
I never mentioned anything about dairy not competing on the world market, That was another poster. Dairys doing grand and will continue to do grand as long as the milk price holds up which dairy men who know more than me about it say it will.
And im sorry to disappoint you D but im not in the slightest bit worked up. I WAS trying to highlight the fact that every time we have a beef orientated thread here, We seem to have a dairy lad telling us were all doomed fools who refuse to accept that our time is up. And our chosen method of farming is consigned to the scrap heap. And our only hope is to buy there by-product or raise there animals for them cause there to busy stocking to the max and raking it in.

In fairness most beef threads follow a similar curve.

Sucklers and beef will be grand in the long term. The bovine fluffers may disagree but as you so well put it D, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Reread my post, never said your time was up all I said was the type if cattle required has changed and consumer and factories don't care.

Dairy beef farmer argument has nothing to do with it.

_Brian

TITANIUM. wrote: »

You make allot of valid points Brian that I can't argue with. But I believe long term we will be forced to return to an animal that converts feed more effectively and produces the most meat per unit. That animal will not be black and white.

The truth of what lies ahead is probably somewhere in between.. We need to be looking hard and cold at the facts of profitability for each farm and not be tied into the sentimentality of breeding/breeds or otherwise. I think lads breeding the best beef stock should stick at it.. lads breeding below average wenalings are already wasting their time and have been for some time.

rangler1

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Relax, ur getting far too worked up and getting personal doesn't do ur argument any favours. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, that's the whole idea of a forum. Most dairy guys, myself included were running some form of beef enterprise up to 5 yrs ago, but it just couldn't compete with the dairy side. As an earlier poster said dairy has been dictated by world markets for a while now, and we can compete, but if irish factories start to pay the average world price for beef, then beef in Ireland is in big big trouble.

Wouldn't agree with your world price comparison, its only when Europe gets to an urestricted level of production that you'll be able to say what the real world price is.
New Zealand production has quadrupled in the last thirty years while Ireland was static.
What's Europe capable of now

on the river

rangler1 wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with your world price comparison, its only when Europe gets to an urestricted level of production that you'll be able to say what the real world price is.
New Zealand production has quadrupled in the last thirty years while Ireland was static.
What's Europe capable of now

we cant compare Ireland to New Zealand .

Different climate .
Bigger production.
and better price.

rangler1

on the river wrote: »

we cant compare Ireland to New Zealand .

Different climate .
Bigger production.
and better price.

well, Englands talking of 20-22p/ltr

on the river

rangler1 wrote: »

well, Englands talking of 20-22p/ltr

Fair point .
Ireland and England have the same climate for farming although England has a bigger market .


just found a article showing Northern Ireland beef performance.
https://www.agriland.ie/news/ni-beef-kill-running-6-behind-2013/

frazzledhome

on the river wrote: »

we cant compare Ireland to New Zealand .

Different climate .
Bigger production.
and better price.

Better price? $6/ kg
Dearer land
Now farming on more marginal land
We stood still for 30 yrs and let them at it. Time to take them on. We have the environmental costs over us, they're only starting