Filling fuel while on a phone.

BrianJD

So today, while filling with Diesel, I took my phone out to open the Topaz app to have it ready to scan. Then the pump stopped working and the till operator made a motion for me to not use the phone!,

Once i put away the phone the pump started up again and it resumed filling. I spoke to the operator when I went to pay and she confirmed that she had to pause the pump as I had my phone out.

Has this happened to anybody else as it's a first in 17 years for me?

colm_mcm

Yeah, had it happen before. Even if there is no scientific fact to backup this no mobiles rule, its still their rule and you have to respect that, they are told to do this.

Dartz

You're not supposed to do it. But it's a ****ing idiotic rule because there's no possible way for a mobile phone to create a spark.

Then again, I've seen people filling up with lit fags in their mouth.

Bpmull

Dartz wrote: »

You're not supposed to do it. But it's a ****ing idiotic rule because there's no possible way for a mobile phone to create a spark.

Then again, I've seen people filling up with lit fags in their mouth.

There must be some kind of theory behind it. Because I've been to a few plant visits with college big chemical plants and no one is allowed in the factory with a phone except head guys like engineers and managers but they all have them special phone which are completely safe they can't or wouldn't dream of using a normal phone.

Dartz

Well, there's the ATEX certified hardware sure, but at the same time a petrol station's hardly the sort of place to worry about it. I suppose technically, a petrol station would ATEX 1 or 2, off the top of my head.

But you'd never get enough of a fuel mix that could be ignited by a mobile phone. You're more likely to get a fire from a static spark when you offer the nozzle to the body of the car than if you answer a call from your mate.

testicle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(2003_season)#Episode_2_.E2.80.93_.22Cell_Phone_Destroys_Gas_Station.22

sidcon

testicle wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(2003_season)#Episode_2_.E2.80.93_.22Cell_Phone_Destroys_Gas_Station.22

http://youtu.be/gct1BmKNvU0

punisher5112

They tested this on mythbusters.

The phone itself may have static electricity or your own person and making contact with vehicle while filling can cause it to ignite.

Gazzmonkey

sidcon wrote: »

http://youtu.be/gct1BmKNvU0

What's youtu.be?

punisher5112

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

What's youtu.be?

best explosions - be ?

Prob a typo

moc moc a moc

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

What's youtu.be?

It's a popular video-hosting website.

challengemaster

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

What's youtu.be?

It's how youtube shortlinks for sharing. Same as goo.gl

advertsfox

Truncated link for YouTube.com videos - much like Goo.gl for short URL's.

corktina

punisher5112 wrote: »

They tested this on mythbusters.

The phone itself may have static electricity or your own person and making contact with vehicle while filling can cause it to ignite.

yeah but not with Diesel surely.

Boskowski

My chemistry teacher gave us a big myth buster one day.
She poured a big puddle of petrol onto the lab table. Then she proceeded to light up a cigarette. Had a couple of puffs then she threw the cig into the puddle.
The cigarette butt made the same noise as if she had thrown it into a puddle of water - and went out.

Obviously a few years ago. Nowadays they'd have her probably arrested for lighting up a cig in the lab alone.

ironclaw

Whilst I completely disagree with the nonsense that is no phones on the forecourt, and its been busted over and over, but one theory I heard as to why it all started goes back to when the battery compartment of the standard mobile phone would pop open when dropped. Meaning the battery would disconnect (Potentially causing an arc at the contacts) and also you have a lithium polymer battery hitting the ground, again another ignition source if burst.

corktina

I think it's more a case of the garage being worried the phone would interfere with the electronics on the pumps, much like airlines worry about phones interfering with stuff.

Nate--IRL--

Boskowski wrote: »

My chemistry teacher gave us a big myth buster one day.
She poured a big puddle of petrol onto the lab table. Then she proceeded to light up a cigarette. Had a couple of puffs then she threw the cig into the puddle.
The cigarette butt made the same noise as if she had thrown it into a puddle of water - and went out.

Obviously a few years ago. Nowadays they'd have her probably arrested for lighting up a cig in the lab alone.

That was Diesel, vapour from the petrol would ignite.

Nate

H3llR4iser

It is probably a rule inherited from times past, when it was not either proven nor disproven that mobile phones could actually cause a fire; To be on the "safe side" (and most likely, protect themselves from potential lawsuits should a fire actually happen), petrol station put the rule in place - and it stands today.

However#, with the way things have gone, I can see it becoming relevant now to prevent people from getting distracted while filling up and avoid annoying situations such as overfilling when they don't have the money to pay, spilling fuel and so on. Another exercise of "hassle avoidance" from the management, really...

Gazzmonkey

The pub talk I heard was that mobile phones disrupt the pump as it tries to measure the amount of fuel dispensed, it was something to do with the pump using radio to read the mass of the fuel and mobile phone signals can corrupt that in some way!!

Heard that one a few years ago.

Boskowski

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

That was Diesel, vapour from the petrol would ignite.

Nate

It was petrol. And she didn't just say so. The smell is very different.
And in any case it was our chemistry teacher not a stage magician. She was trying to teach not trying to cheap effect us.

But I agree that if something does ignite it's the fumes really.

ironclaw

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

The pub talk I heard was that mobile phones disrupt the pump as it tries to measure the amount of fuel dispensed, it was something to do with the pump using radio to read the mass of the fuel and mobile phone signals can corrupt that in some way!!

Heard that one a few years ago.

Can categorically tell you that is false.

However, in the mechanical days, you could disrupt the mechanism (We're talking 20+ years ago now)

Bandara

Boskowski wrote: »

My chemistry teacher gave us a big myth buster one day.
She poured a big puddle of petrol onto the lab table. Then she proceeded to light up a cigarette. Had a couple of puffs then she threw the cig into the puddle.
The cigarette butt made the same noise as if she had thrown it into a puddle of water - and went out.

Obviously a few years ago. Nowadays they'd have her probably arrested for lighting up a cig in the lab alone.

This is just a party trick done to try impress you, and a bit of a irresponible one to show to kids, if one of them tries the same trick with a match you get a very different result

Its virtually impossible that a cigarette will ignite a puddle of petrol. Petrol ignites at 540 degress fahrenheit and a cigarette will never exceed anything near that temperature even while its been inhaled on, let alone while its being thrown thru the air. Also even if for some scientifically impossible reason the cig did exceed 540 Deg it would be dropping so rapidly in temp while it is extinguished by the liquid that it would not stay at 540 deg long enough to ignite the fuel.

Furthermore that rules of physics and fire mean that the only thing that can ignite petrol is a naked flame. You can throw a burning hot lump of coal into a bucket of petrol. It won't ignite.

Big Nasty

challengemaster wrote: »

It's how youtube shortlinks for sharing. Same as goo.gl

And there was me thinking it was a Belgian site!

IrishHomer

For the past 20yrs garage forecourts have been using signage stating no mobile phones & no smoking.

OP wake up

alias no.9

Boskowski wrote: »

My chemistry teacher gave us a big myth buster one day.
She poured a big puddle of petrol onto the lab table. Then she proceeded to light up a cigarette. Had a couple of puffs then she threw the cig into the puddle.
The cigarette butt made the same noise as if she had thrown it into a puddle of water - and went out.

Obviously a few years ago. Nowadays they'd have her probably arrested for lighting up a cig in the lab alone.

You sure that wasn't diesel?

SpaceTime

Certain types of shoes and nylon clothes might pose far more of a risk.

You should probably earth yourself before filling.

Gazzmonkey

SpaceTime wrote: »

Certain types of shoes and nylon clothes might pose far more of a risk.

You should probably earth yourself before filling.

I'm one of these people who constantly get shocked by touching car door handles & hand rails etc.

Maybe I should stop buying cheap clothes or refrain from filling with petrol :pac:

Happened me once and I informed the person in the shop how idiotic the rule was.

SpaceTime

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

I'm one of these people who constantly get shocked by touching car door handles & hand rails etc.

Maybe I should stop buying cheap clothes or refrain from filling with petrol :pac:

It's almost always down to highly insulated shoes.

MadYaker

Rhys Polite Jazz wrote: »

Happened me once and I informed the pump operator how idiotic the rule was.

Why? They don't make the rules. They have to do what they are told so no point telling them really.

djimi

Rhys Polite Jazz wrote: »

Happened me once and I informed the pump operator how idiotic the rule was.

And Im sure they told you to bugger off and either obey the rule or buy your fuel elsewhere?

Gazzmonkey

SpaceTime wrote: »

It's almost always down to highly insulated shoes.

Makes sense, I wear runners / sneakers most of the time!!

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

Why? They don't make the rules. They have to do what they are told so no point telling them really.

djimi wrote: »

And Im sure they told you to bugger off and either obey the rule or buy your fuel elsewhere?

I wasn't giving out to the person but I spent a minute or two explaining why its a stupid rule and who ever made the rule hasn't a clue basically and there is absolutely no need for it. It was about 8 years ago this happened.

I've often used the phone why filling petrol before and since and its only happened once so its obviously not a common rule.

djimi

Rhys Polite Jazz wrote: »

I wasn't giving out to the person but I spent a minute or two explaining why its a stupid rule and who ever made the rule hasn't a clue basically and there is absolutely no need for it. It was about 8 years ago this happened.

I've often used the phone why filling petrol before and since and its only happened once so its obviously not a common rule.

Im sure the person behind the till was hanging on your every word...!

Its a very common rule; go into any petrol station, especially the main brand ones, and have a look either on the pump or on a piller beside the pump and you will see stickers telling you to turn off the engine, not to smoke and not to use your phone. They are at pretty much every pump. Whether it is enforced or not is another thing, but on more than one occasion I have had someone come over the intercom telling me to put my phone away (it might even just be in my hand, not necessarily in use).

fmcg_scribe

Seems definitive:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4366337.stm

Off-topic slightly: There are concerns about mobile phones being to detonate explosive devices or being used near (possible) unexploded devices:
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060811061313AALkIQi

GTE

BrianJD wrote: »

So today, while filling with Diesel, I took my phone out to open the Topaz app to have it ready to scan. Then the pump stopped working and the till operator made a motion for me to not use the phone!,

Once i put away the phone the pump started up again and it resumed filling. I spoke to the operator when I went to pay and she confirmed that she had to pause the pump as I had my phone out.

Has this happened to anybody else as it's a first in 17 years for me?

I did this regularly as staff at a filling station.

Also to stop people from inventing their own auto fill techniques (bottle stuffed in the pump handle).

Also when people left their engines on while filling.

Oh, and when people would fill their coke bottles for their lawnmowers.

The way I see it, I am not scientist and the forecourt is not a discussion forum so when people got narky I just pointed to the big signs everywhere

Cleveland Hot Pocket

In my old carina, the starter wasn't the best - so I'd often have to leave the engine running while filling it up.
It's a diesel, so there's no issue with sparks igniting the fuel etc.

In the 6k miles I did in the 8-9 months I had the car on the road, I only encountered one staff attendant who turned off the pump because I had the engine on. I walked up, paid the €2 or whatever was on the pump and went to the next station down the road. Havent been back to that station since. It's one of the ones on the n7.

Bandara

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

In my old carina, the starter wasn't the best - so I'd often have to leave the engine running while filling it up.
It's a diesel, so there's no issue with sparks igniting the fuel etc.

In the 6k miles I did in the 8-9 months I had the car on the road, I only encountered one staff attendant who turned off the pump because I had the engine on. I walked up, paid the €2 or whatever was on the pump and went to the next station down the road. Havent been back to that station since. It's one of the ones on the n7.

Tbh as a forecourt operator I'd be far happier that my competitors have your business than me.

The 'rules' are there for a reason. Safety. We didn't just invent a load of rules for the crack.

Directly from the Health and Safety Authority guidelines for the industry:

When filling:
"Avoid all sources of ignition, e.g.
naked light, smoking, heaters, hot
engines/exhaust, mobile phones

Persons under the age of 15 may not
handle or dispense petrol"

We are also required to adhere to the following (and other regulations)

Dangerous Substances Act 1972
Dangerous Substances (Retail and
Private Petroleum Stores) Regulations S.I. 311
of 1979
Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road Regulations S.I. 288 of 2007
European Agreement Concerning the International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by
Road (ADR) 2009.

Its not a battle between you and the station, we are offering to sell our fuel to the public under these conditions. If you do not agree with them or wish to adhere to them thats absolutely your right.

We also have huge insurance issues, if you are breaking the regulations and we know about it and fail to act and there is an incident/someone gets hurt or worse, we face very serious repercussions

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Diesel is not petroleum though!
If you can ignite diesel through a small spark then you're a greater physicist than the earlier lead to gold people!

Bandara

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Diesel is not petroleum though!
If you can ignite diesel through a small spark then you're a greater physicist than the earlier lead to gold people!

Irrelevant for very very obvious reasons.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Bandara wrote: »

Irrelevant for very very obvious reasons.

Great response. Thanks, you've convinced me anyway.
Where do I sign up?

Anjobe

Those HSA guidelines are a complete nonsense.

Hot engines and exhausts must be avoided! So only people who have just driven in from round the corner are allowed to fill up? How are motorway service stations allowed to operate?

And mobile phones are a source of ignition? No evidence for that whatsoever, as has already been mentioned by previous posts.

djimi

Bandara wrote: »

Irrelevant for very very obvious reasons.

What are these very very obvious reasons you speak of?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Anjobe wrote: »

Those HSA guidelines are a complete nonsense.

Hot engines and exhausts must be avoided! So only people who have just driven in from round the corner are allowed to fill up? How are motorway service stations allowed to operate?

And mobile phones are a source of ignition? No evidence for that whatsoever, as has already been mentioned by previous posts.

djimi wrote: »

What are these very very obvious reasons you speak of?

Have you both not been won over by his conclusive proof too?

Anjobe

I am totally convinced. Now that I know that petrol must be kept away from my car's hot engine at all costs I am going to have to walk everywhere from now on. But at least I'll be able to smoke and text safely while doing so!

dilallio

I was in a Galway petrol station a number of years ago when I heard some screaming behind me. I turned back to see a man filling petrol with a lighted cigarette in his hand, while another guy was screaming at him to stop.
As he finished filling his tank, he was laughing at the other guy, but as he removed the hose from the car, a small amount of petrol splashed on his forearm and cigarette and ignited. He dropped the petrol hose on the ground and started screaming
"My arm is on fire - help!"
The second guy (the Good Samaritan), ran over and grabbed his hand and tried to wrap a jacket around it to quench the flames. Just as the flames were dying down, a squad car pulls in and 2 gardai run over and grab the Good Samaritan, knock him to the ground, and tell him that he's under arrest.
"Under arrest????" he exclaims. "For What???"
The Garda replies .....
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"Possession of a Fire-Arm"
:P:P:P

jimgoose

The old story about cellphones touching off fires in filling stations has been going around the place for at least fifteen years, and the odd thing is that no such incidents have ever happened. None. Not one. It is a myth.

Bandara

Bandara wrote: »

When filling:
"Avoid all sources of ignition, e.g.
naked light, smoking, heaters, hot
engines/exhaust, mobile phones

So no driving to the station in order to avoid hot engines and exhausts.

Since when are mobile phones a source of ignition, new feature on the iPhone 6 maybe? I hate horse sh*t rules like these.

Dermighty

Bpmull wrote: »

There must be some kind of theory behind it. Because I've been to a few plant visits with college big chemical plants and no one is allowed in the factory with a phone except head guys like engineers and managers but they all have them special phone which are completely safe they can't or wouldn't dream of using a normal phone.

That's a static electricity thing too probably.

Any power source that isn't rated appropriately can't be in an atex zone, that's why phones and other stuff are not permitted in petro chem, pharma plants and similar atex areas.

The pedents will have a field day with the above but that's the gist of it.

Regarding service stations, rules are rules