Some help with my 5x5 revamp

IR1SH RANG3R

Hi All,

I have been doing the basic 5x5 for about 2 months now. I saw on here that Jason Blaha's modified 5x5 is better than the basic stronglifts one so I am going to start this in the next couple of days, I just have a couple of questions first.

My 5x5 has gotten to the following maximums:

Squat=75kg (the form is slipping as I get heavier so want to get it right here)
Overhead Press=35kg (barely :P)
Deadlift=90kg (really struggling to break 95kg)
Bench Press=47.5kg
Barbell Row=50kg (Concerned about my form here too so may drop back)

Now from reading about Jason Blaha's version I should take the about as my 5 rep max and use a calculator to find out my 1 rep max and start off at 75% of this right?

Also for the new excercises I will be adding in, does anyone have an indication of where to start on these weight wise? I have never done any of these so no clue really, I was given starting points on my original 5x5. The new excercises are:

Barbell Shrugs
Tricep Extensions
Straight Bar Curls
Cable Pull-throughs
Cable Crunches
Close Grip Bench Press

Sorry for the long post just want to make sure I am doing this right

Alf Veedersane

Take a workout or two to work out what your starting point. That's really the only way.

IR1SH RANG3R

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Take a workout or two to work out what your starting point. That's really the only way.

And what's the best way to do this? Is it to try as heavy as I can and see the heaviest I can do 5 or 8 reps and using this as a max? Thanks for the help!

Alf Veedersane

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

And what's the best way to do this? Is it to try as heavy as I can and see the heaviest I can do 5 or 8 reps and using this as a max? Thanks for the help!

Start light. Better to go light than go heavy. If it's too light to start, so be it. Going too heavy at the start and you're not giving your form a chance.

I had to do this for my most recent program and I erred on the side of caution because it's easier to adapt from too light than too heavy and your form tends to be better.

IR1SH RANG3R

Cheers for the help Alf, I'll give them a go tomorrow in the gym and see how I get on with them

Alf Veedersane

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

Cheers for the help Alf, I'll give them a go tomorrow in the gym and see how I get on with them

It's not easy to gauge the right weight for sets and reps if you haven't done those sets and reps before if you're coming off only a 5x5.

You might have a rough idea of where to start but if not, go low and see how the sets and reps feel.

tok9

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

Hi All,
My 5x5 has gotten to the following maximums:

Squat=75kg (the form is slipping as I get heavier so want to get it right here)
Overhead Press=35kg (barely :P)
Deadlift=90kg (really struggling to break 95kg)
Bench Press=47.5kg
Barbell Row=50kg (Concerned about my form here too so may drop back)

I'm also doing the 5x5 and I'm a little surprised at your maximums.

It seems odd that you'd be able to do a 90kg Deadlift but only 75kg Squat. I'm currently at 100kg Squat and 75kg Deadlift.

Maybe I'm the one who's off here but I would say make sure you have your technique/form right for the Deadlift.

Alf Veedersane

It's more 'normal' to have a higher max for the deadlift than the squat.

Mellor

tok9 wrote: »

I'm also doing the 5x5 and I'm a little surprised at your maximums.

It seems odd that you'd be able to do a 90kg Deadlift but only 75kg Squat. I'm currently at 100kg Squat and 75kg Deadlift.

Maybe I'm the one who's off here but I would say make sure you have your technique/form right for the Deadlift.

Deadlift is usually higher than squat.
Most likely, your squats are high.

MD1990

tok9 wrote: »

I'm also doing the 5x5 and I'm a little surprised at your maximums.

It seems odd that you'd be able to do a 90kg Deadlift but only 75kg Squat. I'm currently at 100kg Squat and 75kg Deadlift.

Maybe I'm the one who's off here but I would say make sure you have your technique/form right for the Deadlift.

Check your squat depth. You might not be breaking parallel.

tok9

I'll look into that on monday so.

Ri_Nollaig

tok9 wrote: »

I'll look into that on monday so.

Check out this site
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/SquatStandardsKg.html
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandardsKg.html

something wrong somewhere if you can squat 100KG but can only deadlift 75KG.

tok9

I'd be 75kg. I won't be doing any deadlift today but I'm going to look at my technique for the squats properly and probably drop the weight to 80kg and focus on my technique.

My next deadlift on wednesday will be 80kg too.

I may create my own thread as I don't want to derail this one too much.

Alf Veedersane

tok9 wrote: »

I'd be 75kg. I won't be doing any deadlift today but I'm going to look at my technique for the squats properly and probably drop the weight to 80kg and focus on my technique.

My next deadlift on wednesday will be 80kg too.

I may create my own thread as I don't want to derail this one too much.

Best bet on trhe squat is to get a video and see if you're deep enough

Mellor

tok9 wrote: »

I'd be 75kg. I won't be doing any deadlift today but I'm going to look at my technique for the squats properly and probably drop the weight to 80kg and focus on my technique.

My next deadlift on wednesday will be 80kg too.

I may create my own thread as I don't want to derail this one too much.

Get the 80kg squat on video. Start your own thread and post it up.

.ak

tok9 wrote: »

I'm also doing the 5x5 and I'm a little surprised at your maximums.

It seems odd that you'd be able to do a 90kg Deadlift but only 75kg Squat. I'm currently at 100kg Squat and 75kg Deadlift.

Maybe I'm the one who's off here but I would say make sure you have your technique/form right for the Deadlift.

That would be the exception I'd say, not the norm. I'm almost a flip reversal of your stats there on my 1RM.

With a deadlift it's a compound that involves many strong points (your back muscles, your legs etc) and you're not travelling very far with it.

That's why it's generally easier for people to lift heavier with deadlifts than squats, especially on 5x5 where your deadlift is actually only 1x5.

tok9

Ya true. I will admit I'm pretty cautious with the Deadlift so if I feel my technique is poor on that I'm very reluctant to raise it up while with the squat I know myself at times I may not be going down far enough but still count the rep.

heroics

tok9 wrote: »

Ya true. I will admit I'm pretty cautious with the Deadlift so if I feel my technique is poor on that I'm very reluctant to raise it up while with the squat I know myself at times I may not be going down far enough but still count the rep.

I agree with most of the posters above. Get a video of the squats.
I used to be like this as well. Squats > Deadlift. After videoing my self doing the squats realized form was all over the place not nearly low enough etc. Struggling to get the weight back up on the squats but my 1RM on deadlifts would be nearly 50% more than squats. (working on this bit)

For the OP I find that when I change a program to include new excercises it always takes me a session or 2 to get the weight/numbers right. As above start lighter and get form right first.

IR1SH RANG3R

Didn't get to the gym all weekend, heading up in the next couple of hours so will see what the craic is and hopefully post up here later to get an idea of what people think, thanks for all the advice!

Tok9 don't worry about using this thread for your questions etc. plenty of room for the two of us :P

Gumbo

I was doing the 5x5 for afew months (Jan-May).
Few breaks in between because of stags or missing a few days here and there.

I found the program great to get lifting heavier and increase strength (proof in the increased figures each week).

I havent done anything now since june'ish and want to start back in the next week or two.
Still trying to eat clean when possible.

My finishing figures for the 5x5 were :

Squat : 90kg
Bench : 62.5
Press : 42.5
Deadlift : 110
Row : 50

ive been getting James emails with his 6 week program, has anybody tried it?

Alf Veedersane

kceire wrote: »

ive been getting James emails with his 6 week program, has anybody tried it?

WHIP IT! did it a while back. Made some serious improvements. It kicked off in his log here about halfway down or so.

IR1SH RANG3R

Ok so went to the gym this afternoon and tried to work out my starting weights and got the following results today:

Barbell Shrugs: 8 rep max = 50kg (Could probably have gotten slightly higher but took the advice from here that it's better to start at lower weights)
Straight Bar Curls: 8 rep max = 25kg (Really struggled with these)
Tricep Extension: 8 rep max = 40kg (Barely got the 40, need to focus on my form here and ensure I am using the tricep)
Cable Pull Through: 8 rep max = 25kg (Again struggled here and think my form may have been bad, these are awkward to do!)
Cable Crunches: 10 rep max = 65kg (Not sure about these, I followed the video for form but didn't feel it "hitting" my abs if that makes sense? Also the max weight on the cable is 70kg so assuming I need to up the reps when I get here?)

Inputting the above to a 1rm calculator I came out with the following starting weights:

Barbell Shrugs: 40kg
Straight Bar Curls: 20kg
Tricep Extension: 32.5kg
Cable Pull Through: 20kg
Cable Crunches: 55kg

So does anyone have any comments/advice/criticisms of the above? Especially around the cable crunches?

Kevcol

Hi IrishRanger. I'm pretty much a newbie to lifting weights. I've been reading about the 5x5 program. Just wondering if you'd recommend it to somebody starting off? I'd be reasonably fit but it's strength I'm trying to improve all round for GAA. Thanks for any reply

IR1SH RANG3R

Kevcol wrote: »

Hi IrishRanger. I'm pretty much a newbie to lifting weights. I've been reading about the 5x5 program. Just wondering if you'd recommend it to somebody starting off? I'd be reasonably fit but it's strength I'm trying to improve all round for GAA. Thanks for any reply

I would recommend it yes. I would recommend searching for Jason Blaha's 5x5 as it just adds that little extra to the standard 5x5. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAuARgqS6aQ#t=1072

I would also qualify the above by saying that I am completely new to weight lifting as well, I only started back around June so there are many more people here that would know a LOT more than me about all of this. Any questions throw them up and the always helpful boardsies will help you out

Alf Veedersane

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

Ok so went to the gym this afternoon and tried to work out my starting weights and got the following results today:

Barbell Shrugs: 8 rep max = 50kg (Could probably have gotten slightly higher but took the advice from here that it's better to start at lower weights)
Straight Bar Curls: 8 rep max = 25kg (Really struggled with these)
Tricep Extension: 8 rep max = 40kg (Barely got the 40, need to focus on my form here and ensure I am using the tricep)
Cable Pull Through: 8 rep max = 25kg (Again struggled here and think my form may have been bad, these are awkward to do!)
Cable Crunches: 10 rep max = 65kg (Not sure about these, I followed the video for form but didn't feel it "hitting" my abs if that makes sense? Also the max weight on the cable is 70kg so assuming I need to up the reps when I get here?)

Inputting the above to a 1rm calculator I came out with the following starting weights:

Barbell Shrugs: 40kg
Straight Bar Curls: 20kg
Tricep Extension: 32.5kg
Cable Pull Through: 20kg
Cable Crunches: 55kg

So does anyone have any comments/advice/criticisms of the above? Especially around the cable crunches?

Not sure the 1RMs are relevant but the calculator will give an idea for 5RM or 8RM (or whatever the rep range is)

IR1SH RANG3R

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Not sure the 1RMs are relevant but the calculator will give an idea for 5RM or 8RM (or whatever the rep range is)

What do you think of the starting weights though? Anything jump out at you as clearly wrong?

Also I found the rest periods excessive today, 3-5 minutes between the heavy lifts?? I'd be in the gym all day doing nothing and found I barely worked up a sweat today. Think I may stick to 90-120 second rest period!

Alf Veedersane

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

What do you think of the starting weights though? Anything jump out at you as clearly wrong?

Also I found the rest periods excessive today, 3-5 minutes between the heavy lifts?? I'd be in the gym all day doing nothing and found I barely worked up a sweat today. Think I may stick to 90-120 second rest period!

I'm not am expert but I'd start at a weight where you have a rep left in the tank on your sets to start off with. The weight will go up so don't worry if you're working within yourself the first couple of weeks.

You don't need to rest as long at the start as well but you'll reach a point where the weight is such that you'll be glad of those rests.

Kevcol

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

I would recommend it yes. I would recommend searching for Jason Blaha's 5x5 as it just adds that little extra to the standard 5x5. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAuARgqS6aQ#t=1072

I would also qualify the above by saying that I am completely new to weight lifting as well, I only started back around June so there are many more people here that would know a LOT more than me about all of this. Any questions throw them up and the always helpful boardsies will help you out

That's great, thanks. I was fairly sure I was gonna do that programming but hadn't seen any 'real' people recommend it, just those on YouTube etc. Looking forward to getting into it now and getting the diet right. Thanks for the reply

Mellor

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

What do you think of the starting weights though? Anything jump out at you as clearly wrong?

Also I found the rest periods excessive today, 3-5 minutes between the heavy lifts?? I'd be in the gym all day doing nothing and found I barely worked up a sweat today. Think I may stick to 90-120 second rest period!

Starting weights look good. Roughly 80% of the weight where you just got 8 reps. Move up slowly and you'll be fine.

If you don't need to take 3/5 mins then go. But as you get stronger, you'll prob need more time before the heaviest set.
For example, I take 90secinds for my first sets, but I'll take a full 5 mins before my last set, especially if it's first time at a weight.

tok9

Meant to post after my workout yesterday but just left it.

Anyway, as I said I really went to work on my squat depth yesterday. Got as low as I could and picked a spot in front of me so I'd know I was still getting that low for the squats themselves.

So I'm down to 80KG on the squats and I have to say I really felt them (although that could also be due to the jog/run I did the day before which really took it out of me)

So right now for me:

Squat - 80kg
Bench - 60kg
Barbell Row - 52.5kg
Overhead Press - 40kg (Seriously struggle with this one)
Deadlift - 80kg

IR1SH RANG3R

Hey tok9 not sure if this will help but when I was shown how to squat starting off I used a small step thing right behind me to ensure I go low enough. It's not a squat until my arse touches the step and still use it to judge

tok9

Definitely a good idea and something I was thinking of using.

The only reason I haven't used it is because I thought it might give me some extra momentum when pushing back up but definitely something I'll consider.

Alf Veedersane

tok9 wrote: »

Definitely a good idea and something I was thinking of using.

The only reason I haven't used it is because I thought it might give me some extra momentum when pushing back up but definitely something I'll consider.

It sounds like a box squat.

You don't bounce off it so there's no momentum gain.

.ak

IR1SH RANG3R wrote: »

Ok so went to the gym this afternoon and tried to work out my starting weights and got the following results today:

Barbell Shrugs: 8 rep max = 50kg (Could probably have gotten slightly higher but took the advice from here that it's better to start at lower weights)
Straight Bar Curls: 8 rep max = 25kg (Really struggled with these)
Tricep Extension: 8 rep max = 40kg (Barely got the 40, need to focus on my form here and ensure I am using the tricep)
Cable Pull Through: 8 rep max = 25kg (Again struggled here and think my form may have been bad, these are awkward to do!)
Cable Crunches: 10 rep max = 65kg (Not sure about these, I followed the video for form but didn't feel it "hitting" my abs if that makes sense? Also the max weight on the cable is 70kg so assuming I need to up the reps when I get here?)

Inputting the above to a 1rm calculator I came out with the following starting weights:

Barbell Shrugs: 40kg
Straight Bar Curls: 20kg
Tricep Extension: 32.5kg
Cable Pull Through: 20kg
Cable Crunches: 55kg

So does anyone have any comments/advice/criticisms of the above? Especially around the cable crunches?

With cable crunches I find less is more. I got up to 40kg and found I wasn't feeling it, went back to around 35kg the next session and felt it much more. I think if it's too heavy you end up pulling and moving too much, and it easily turns into a back excersize.

Try lowering the weight, lock your hips and concentrate on contracting your abs as if you were a prawn cooking on the bbq! Don't pull on the weight with your back or arms. You should be able to move the weight by contracting your core alone.

.ak

tok9 wrote: »

Meant to post after my workout yesterday but just left it.

Anyway, as I said I really went to work on my squat depth yesterday. Got as low as I could and picked a spot in front of me so I'd know I was still getting that low for the squats themselves.

So I'm down to 80KG on the squats and I have to say I really felt them (although that could also be due to the jog/run I did the day before which really took it out of me)

So right now for me:

Squat - 80kg
Bench - 60kg
Barbell Row - 52.5kg
Overhead Press - 40kg (Seriously struggle with this one)
Deadlift - 80kg

I think everyone struggles at overheads. I'm on 37.5 and I find it hard, although I'm doing a clean and press in my current routine. I hate it, it's the worst thing ever, it absolutely kills me, especially as it's part of a tri-set... Although on the upside I'm looking forward to going back to my 5x5 alt routine with just the overhead and no clean. Think I'll be able to get over 40kg with that finally.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

With cable crunches I find less is more. I got up to 40kg and found I wasn't feeling it, went back to around 35kg the next session and felt it much more. I think if it's too heavy you end up pulling and moving too much, and it easily turns into a back excersize.

Try lowering the weight, lock your hips and concentrate on contracting your abs as if you were a prawn cooking on the bbq! Don't pull on the weight with your back or arms. You should be able to move the weight by contracting your core alone.

I really don't like cable crunches, and I agree with some coaches and lifters who say they're not beneficial to strength.

All of the main lifts require a statically held core to support a neutral lumbar spine; cable crunches promote lumbar flexion, which is exactly the opposite of what's wanted. Weighted planks and roll-outs (with a properly braced core) > crunches.

Alf Veedersane

gvn wrote: »

I really don't like cable crunches, and I agree with some coaches and lifters who say they're not beneficial to strength.

All of the main lifts require a statically held core to support a neutral lumbar spine; cable crunches promote lumbar flexion, which is exactly the opposite of what's wanted. Weighted planks and roll-outs (with a properly braced core) > crunches.

IIRC, some people (Hanley) would switch weighted planks and cable crunches in that.

You'll see people do cable crunches and yes there's a lot of lumbar flexion going on but you'll also see it done properly.

But then you'll see a lot of good exercises done badly which is no reflection on the exercise itself.

.ak

Yeah tbh when I first started cable crunches I thought they were useless. But once I found how isolate your core with them the next day I really felt it. I've never had prenounced ab muscles (still don't but they're way better than before!) but I found they've definitely helped to increase my core stability for rugby and other work outs, and after a few weeks I'm starting to see a bit of definition.

Them, weighted planks, incline leg raises and mountain climbers I find give me the best progression in my core. I will defo by working them and a few other core accessory moves into my 5x5 routine when I restart it again.

Feenix

tok9 wrote: »

Meant to post after my workout yesterday but just left it.

Anyway, as I said I really went to work on my squat depth yesterday. Got as low as I could and picked a spot in front of me so I'd know I was still getting that low for the squats themselves.

So I'm down to 80KG on the squats and I have to say I really felt them (although that could also be due to the jog/run I did the day before which really took it out of me)

So right now for me:

Squat - 80kg
Bench - 60kg
Barbell Row - 52.5kg
Overhead Press - 40kg (Seriously struggle with this one)
Deadlift - 80kg

Been doing 5x5 for months and also cant get anywhere close to completing 40k for overhead press. Perhaps its more normal than I thought.

IR1SH RANG3R

Feenix wrote: »

Been doing 5x5 for months and also cant get anywhere close to completing 40k. Perhaps its more normal than I thought.

I had the same problem, the press is HARD!!

Mellor

Get a stronger bench.
Get a stronger back.
Micro load the press.
Press more.

.ak

Mellor wrote: »

Get a stronger bench.
Get a stronger back.
Micro load the press.
Press more.

This went over my head. What does a bench have to do with overheads? And what does micro the load mean?

Alf Veedersane

.ak wrote: »

This went over my head. What does a bench have to do with overheads? And what does micro the load mean?

There is a lot of overlap in the muscles used. Assuming form etc is good, then a stronger bench should make for a stronger OH press.

Micro-loading is just increasing the weight by as small increments as possible. Investing in fractional plates (0.5 kgs) would help with that.

Mellor

.ak wrote: »

This went over my head. What does a bench have to do with overheads? And what does micro the load mean?

What Alf said. Increasing one, will increase the other. The two are pretty closely related. Typically a strict OHP will be about 2/3 of your bench.

As for microloading. It's about relative increases. Take Tok's numbers above.
Adding 2kg to each of his lifts above equals a 2.5% increase for squat, but a 5% increase for OHP. For the same relative increase you need to add less to OHPs.
You can do this with either microloading or finding another way to reduce increases.