Late for work due to car crash, received a warning!!

KwackerJack

I was due to start work at 9:00 but arrive late at 10:00 due to a 2 car crash. The tail back was almost 3 miles long and there was no way of turning off etc.

I called twice and I left a voice mail as my manager did not answer.

I apologise verbally later in the day and my managers reply was 'leave earlier to avoid traffic' I leave 1hr 15 min early for a 40 minute commute and unfortunately Im don't have the ability to forecast traffic incidents!!

The company's policy is simply I was late and that was that and the circumstances don't matter??

Any hours I miss I always work back in the evening.

HeidiHeidi

Advise them you'll be claiming an allowance for the psychic abilities which are clearly a requirement of their workplace.

Sounds ridiculous tbh.

tipptom

Seems harsh,have ou been late before or p eed them of any other way that you can think of?

Milly33

Muppets I would keep track of all the times they are late and they next time they bring it up say well here you go, here is a track of times and dates when others were late!! Bam then call him a twat and boop him on the head..

Larbre34

KwackerJack wrote: »

What really annoys me is other staff member including management are regularly Kate and live with a 15/20 minute radius yet this seems to be accepted**

Kate often keeps me late too, she's a divil that way.

In all seriousness, that is a ridiculous occurrence to get a warning over. If its been noted formally as a warning I would kick up big time over it, especially if your time keeping is excellent otherwise. Doesnt matter what the management get up to, its the fairness of your own particular incident you should keep to in any conversation.

Chattastrophe!

You mention that any hours you miss you always work back in the evening ... how often has this happened in, say, the last six months? And, on those occasions, was it agreed in advance, or did you just end up being late (whether by your own fault, or as a result of circumstances outside of your control)?

I know that a lot of managers frown upon the idea of employees organising their own "flexitime" system like this. Believe me, they'll notice when you're late - even though you might work back the hours that same evening, the damage is done, especially if it's happening on a regular basis.

I wouldn't even think about the other employees who regularly come in late, whether or not they live closer to the workplace than you do. Just worry about your own timekeeping.

Their reaction does seem quite harsh if you've been working there for many years and this was an absolute once-off. But if you're relatively new in the company, and if this isn't the first time you've been late in recent months, I think it's understandable that they're keeping a close eye on you.

Would moving closer to work or using public transport be an option for you?

KwackerJack

tipptom wrote: »

Seems harsh,have ou been late before or p eed them of any other way that you can think of?

I have been late on occasions but I always phone and make up even 5 minutes and I do work late even though overtime is not paid unless passed by manages for special situations.

Anytime I was late 3 times in the last year, it's was due to situations beyond my control.

Public transportation it not reliable enough regarding the distance I travel and moving closer means paying extortionate rent!!

makeorbrake

Not sure if that was a verbal or written warning but if written, then don't sign it. It's completely unreasonable - so don't accept liability in any way by signing it.

If there were any news reports re. the crash, keep a record eg. sometimes these things would be mentioned on local radio (if there's a podcast of radio coverage from that time, listen to it - and keep a copy) or noted on the aa's website.

On the other point - others being late and it not being an issue - keep a record of that also. i.e. times, dates, etc. Not sure on the size of your employer but if cctv and/or clock in system in place, then this could work to your advantage if the worst happens at some future point (as you can make them produce such records). This is discrimination - and I am aware of someone who was fired in such circumstances six months ago and was begrudgingly reinstated exactly because of these grounds i.e. she acknowledges that something she did was wrong but the company took no action against 5-6 other employees who had done something similar.

Gatling

KwackerJack wrote: »

I have been late on occasions but I always phone and make up even 5 minutes and I do work late even though overtime is not paid unless passed by manages for special situations.

So you have a history of what could be construed as poor time keeping ,

5 minutes here and there add up but been nearly an hour late is asking for trouble

Keep a note of the incident, if there is anything on AA take a screenshot of that and any other evidence. It sounds like a place that will continue to do other things like that. Always keep a diary handy days dates and times. So if something was to happen you could possibly go after them for bullying. I have seen it done.

Mrs OBumble

KwackerJack wrote: »

I have been late on occasions but I always phone and make up even 5 minutes

The fact that you phone in is pretty irrelevant.

If the job is time sensitive (eg there are customers to be served at 9am), then knowing that you will be late gives the manager knowledge that they need to fix the problem - but it doesn't get the customers served.

KwackerJack

Gatling wrote: »

So you have a history of what could be construed as poor time keeping ,

5 minutes here and there add up but been nearly an hour late is asking for trouble

I wouldn't call 3 time in one year poor time keeping!

KwackerJack

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The fact that you phone in is pretty irrelevant.

If the job is time sensitive (eg there are customers to be served at 9am), then knowing that you will be late gives the manager knowledge that they need to fix the problem - but it doesn't get the customers served.

I work in Finance and do not deal directly with customers.

Customers have been left waiting for answers due to management and other staff being late but this is ok!!

syklops

KwackerJack wrote: »

I have been late on occasions but I always phone and make up even 5 minutes and I do work late even though overtime is not paid unless passed by manages for special situations.

Anytime I was late 3 times in the last year, it's was due to situations beyond my control.

Public transportation it not reliable enough regarding the distance I travel and moving closer means paying extortionate rent!!

I've been in this boat and its quite siimple. You sound like me, if Im late I make up the time but the problem I faced was "management", saw me as being late but didnt see me working late. There were some weeks I was working 60 hours weeks for no over time, but they only saw the late start. So play them at their own game. Be early, start on time, leave at 5.30. Job done.

Its amazing even the more fore thinking companies get petty about time keeping - specifically start time, and didn't care about when you actually finish, and can be either ignorant or apathetic about your work load and the actual hours you put in.

You've been late a few times already so you are on their radar. Kate is not on their radar. I was in a meeting and was in trouble for being late after being on a business trip even though my colleage who was on the same business trip made it in so my excuse of being tired didn't wash with them. My colleague slept in 2 days later and nothing was said to him because he wasn't "on the radar". I was. - As an aside, my workload at the time was triple what his was, so no wonder I was tired, but again management was either ignorant or apathetic to facts like that.

Play by their rules, and you will be grand. The car crash was unfortunate and maybe start looking elsewhere as having a written warning means your 9 lives are running out. In the next place, be a bit more careful time wise.

intellectual dosser

I think you need to let it go,

From their perspective you were late and thats that, if its a one off then its a bit harsh but nothing can be done.

makeorbrake

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The fact that you phone in is pretty irrelevant.

I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. Most likely there is a policy in place making this action a requirement. Even if there's not - it shows that the employee is doing the only other thing he/she can in a situation that is beyond her control i.e. giving her line manager a heads up - so that if that job role is time-sensitive, he/she can respond to the situation.

Gatling wrote:

So you have a history of what could be construed as poor time keeping ,

5 minutes here and there add up but been nearly an hour late is asking for trouble

3 lates in the space of a year? I don't think that's particularly bad - especially if there were circumstances beyond the OP's control that led to those lates.

dazed+confused

I have seen attitude like this towards an employee before an it's usually down to an underlying issue and because management wants rid of that person. They are trying to create a paper trail to justify sacking you in the future.

Banjoxed

dazed+confused wrote: »

I have seen attitude like this towards an employee before an it's usually down to an underlying issue and because management wants rid of that person. They are trying to create a paper trail to justify sacking you in the future.

This +1,000.

If at all possible OP, interpret this as signal to get out and seek work elsewhere. And, even slimmer chance, work that you can take reliable public transport that won't get snarled in traffic to.

makeorbrake

Intellectual Dosser wrote:

I think you need to let it go

Not at all. The OP should only 'let it go' if they're letting it go. If he/she 'lets it go', pretty soon they could find themselves jobless - and unfairly so.

Intellectual Dosser wrote:

From their perspective you were late and thats that, if its a one off then its a bit harsh but nothing can be done.

That's not that - if the grounds for being late were completely outside the OP's control. If that is the case, then the employer is not being reasonable.

dazed+confused wrote:

I have seen attitude like this towards an employee before an it's usually down to an underlying issue and because

Wouldn't surprise me either if this was the case. Have seen multiple examples of it in the past.

Banjoxed wrote:

If at all possible OP, interpret this as signal to get out and seek work elsewhere.

IF this is the case, then only leave on your own terms i.e. if it suits you to do so. Otherwise, stay right where you are!

Galway K9

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I think you need to let it go,

From their perspective you were late and thats that, if its a one off then its a bit harsh but nothing can be done.

Look for another job perhaps? I'd refuse to work for people like this.

intellectual dosser

makeorbrake wrote: »

Not at all. The OP should only 'let it go' if they're letting it go. If he/she 'lets it go', pretty soon they could find themselves jobless - and unfairly so.

That's not that - if the grounds for being late were completely outside the OP's control. If that is the case, then the employer is not being reasonable.

Did the employer force the OP to live where they live and follow the route that they do to work? The employer sets the time the employee should be at work and thats it, they're expected to be there.

Can the employer show discretion in cases like this? Of course, but they chose not to - let it go and move on.

If the OP chooses not to let it go, there wont be any winners, only losers, with the OP being the biggest loser of all.

intellectual dosser

Galway K9 wrote: »

Look for another job perhaps? I'd refuse to work for people like this.

Fair enough - yes.

Mr. Loverman

If you have a history of being late and making excuses, your manager no longer cares. I am sure you're not telling us the full story.

Try to understand this - it's not just your manager who notices you are late. Everyone notices. Other managers notice and may be using it against your manager to prove her team is ****.

Just come in on time.

KwackerJack

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

If you have a history of being late and making excuses, your manager no longer cares. I am sure you're not telling us the full story.

Try to understand this - it's not just your manager who notices you are late. Everyone notices. Other managers notice and may be using it against your manager to prove her team is ****.

Just come in one time.

I am usually I'm on time and I actually have a good relationship with my manger hence my shock with their reply.

This has happened before with 3 suffer member results in them.moving departs and since have had no issues!!

I have often worked till 10, 11 and even midnight during half and year end so I think I put in the effort and would like to think that when a motorway is blocked by police that management would.understand this and take into consideration my past performance!!

intellectual dosser

I'd like to point out the irony in us all debating behaviour in the workplace on boards.ie during working hours.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Gatling

An hour late for work the employer has a right to issue a warning .
Unless there was an emergency at home or similar .
The op can say oh the manager this and the manager that, but he's the one who is an hour late for work

Mr. Loverman

KwackerJack wrote: »

I am usually I'm on time and I actually have a good relationship with my manger hence my shock with her reply.

This has happened before with 3 suffer member results in them.moving departs and since have had no issues!!

I have often worked till 10, 11 and even midnight during half and year end so I think I put in the effort and would like to think that when a motorway is blocked by police that management would.understand this and take into consideration my past performance!!

I'd need to hear your manager's side of things.

I've managed many people and - I'm not saying this is true in your case - people are often deluded as to their value or level of performance.

Your manager knows everything about you. The minutes late here and there, how much time you spend surfing the web, the quality of your work, etc. People think they get away with things because their manager says nothing, but actually all that's happened is your manager has chosen to say nothing this time.

As a manager it always amazed me how some people can come in on time every time, and there are other people who can't and who always have excuses.

irishmover

The issue isn't your manager. It's stupid idiotic drivers who cause accidents which make everyone late for work.

Slow down, drive defensively and everyone gets to where they need to go on time!

Nody

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makeorbrake

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

If you have a history of being late and making excuses, your manager no longer cares. Try to understand this - it's not just your manager who notices you are late. Everyone notices. Other managers notice and may be using it against your manager to prove her team is ****.

A history of being late? Does being late 3 times in the space of a year due to circumstances out of the OP's control constitute a 'history of being late'?

intellectual dosser wrote:

Did the employer force the OP to live where they live and follow the route that they do to work? The employer sets the time the employee should be at work and thats it, they're expected to be there.

If we are to take the OP at their word, the circumstances for the 3 lates were very much exceptional and outside their control. Its not reasonable for an employer to pursue a disciplinary process on the back of that alone.

intellectual dosser wrote:

Can the employer show discretion in cases like this? Of course, but they chose not to - let it go and move on. If the OP chooses not to let it go, there wont be any winners, only losers, with the OP being the biggest loser of all.

Of course, the OP shouldn't make any big deal about it. It's not in his/her interests to do so. However, if the employer makes a big deal about it - and uses it against him/her, then the OP has to stand up for him or herself.

Frank Lee Midere

KwackerJack wrote: »

I am usually I'm on time and I actually have a good relationship with my manger hence my shock with her reply.

This has happened before with 3 suffer member results in them.moving departs and since have had no issues!!

I have often worked till 10, 11 and even midnight during half and year end so I think I put in the effort and would like to think that when a motorway is blocked by police that management would.understand this and take into consideration my past performance!!

Clearly your company doesn't know you are working that late ( are you the only person working late?). If this is true then you need to stop doing that. A company which accepts your free work at one end of the day and doesn't give allowances at the other is not worth it. *But* they may not know - despite what some managers suggest here - that you are there so late. Of course they might be unhappy with your work but that's a reason to leave.

Try this- work past 8pm any night and send an email saying you are coming in by 10am. That's a record. Do that all the time you work late. If they baulk stop working past 5.

intellectual dosser

makeorbrake wrote: »

If we are to take the OP at their word, the circumstances for the 3 lates were very much exceptional and outside their control. Its not reasonable for an employer to pursue a disciplinary process on the back of that alone.

I think now would be a good time for the OP to define the circumstances of the warning? Was it Verbal, Written, or a passing comment (or other)?

Mr. Loverman

makeorbrake wrote: »

A history of being late? Does being late 3 times in the space of a year due to circumstances out of the OP's control constitute a 'history of being late'?

Something was said three times.

That's different than being late three times.

We need the other side of the story.

Manach

Sometimes it is better to let things slide and write it off as experience.

However there is an obligation for employers to track the time of their workers. The OP seems to have gone above and beyond in working OT on occasions, so if the employer wishes to issue warnings a counter-move would be to ask for their own statutory records to show how this was more than balanced out.

Nody

Manach wrote: »

However there is an obligation for employers to track the time of their workers. The OP seems to have gone above and beyond in working OT on occasions, so if the employer wishes to issue warnings a counter-move would be to ask for their own statutory records to show how this was more than balanced out.

I had such a discussion with HR (not for me but one of my team) many years ago and the answer I got was basically that showing up late and "working it up" does not cancel each other out. The fact was that the employee was expected to be on site at a certain time and they were not (hence breach of policy); the actual working hours is a separate topic to this issue.

_Brian

Banjoxed wrote: »

This +1,000.

If at all possible OP, interpret this as signal to get out and seek work elsewhere. And, even slimmer chance, work that you can take reliable public transport that won't get snarled in traffic to.

This has to be taken to be a realistic possibility.
I've been the manager asked to manage someone out the door and this is exactly how it's done. Apply the rules without wavering.
You were late because of an accident? The only part of that sentence that's important is that you were late. You rang in to warn them, great thanks - you were still late.

It's not nice but it happens.

Has there been any other reason you mightn't be appreciated any more?

Don't do like others have suggested and start timekeeping records on other employees. Focus on your own position, your own situation.

Three lates in a year could indeed warrant a warning, I can't see you've any grounds to fight this warning on. Accept it and work hard at avoiding incidents where it could be escalated to something more serious.

Frank Lee Midere

Nody wrote: »

I had such a discussion with HR (not for me but one of my team) many years ago and the answer I got was basically that showing up late and "working it up" does not cancel each other out. The fact was that the employee was expected to be on site at a certain time and they were not (hence breach of policy); the actual working hours is a separate topic to this issue.

Thats company policy but not necessarily the law.

Frank Lee Midere

_Brian wrote: »

This has to be taken to be a realistic possibility.
I've been the manager asked to manage someone out the door and this is exactly how it's done. Apply the rules without wavering.
You were late because of an accident? The only part of that sentence that's important is that you were late. You rang in to warn them, great thanks - you were still late.

It's not nice but it happens.

Has there been any other reason you mightn't be appreciated any more?

Don't do like others have suggested and start timekeeping records on other employees. Focus on your own position, your own situation.

Three lates in a year could indeed warrant a warning, I can't see you've any grounds to fight this warning on. Accept it and work hard at avoiding incidents where it could be escalated to something more serious.

They have very little legal grounds in fact, if he is working late. Or more than 48 hours a week. He should be keeping records, though, even an email before leaving to his boss would make sense.

Mr. Loverman

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

They have very little legal grounds in fact, if he is working late.

Can you show me the law for this?

makeorbrake

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Thats company policy but not necessarily the law.

Exactly. Any fool can sack someone. It's another story entirely as regards whether they have done so legally or not.


Do - as someone suggested above - redouble your efforts to stay on the right side of your terms of employment....particularly if you feel - as _Brian puts it - you're being 'managed out the door'!
Do keep meticulous records - but just keep them to yourself. Hopefully, the circumstances in which you will need to use them will never come around.

_Brian

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

They have very little legal grounds in fact, if he is working late. Or more than 48 hours a week. He should be keeping records, though, even an email before leaving to his boss would make sense.

Keeping records on other employees lates is what I was referring to. This is a big no no and will only further alienate OP from their manager.

OP was late a few times and got a warning. They need to accept this fact and move forward either in this company or looking for another job. However, being on a warning for tardiness doesn't bode well for a positive reference to a potential new employer.

Regarding working back the hours and general hours OP needs to deal with separately with management. It's not to be used as a bargaining chip to counterbalance being late for work.

makeorbrake

_Brian wrote: »

Keeping records on other employees lates is what I was referring to. This is a big no no and will only further alienate OP from their manager.

It's not a big no no. It should be done and not discussed with anyone but only in a circumstance where the employer takes illegal action i.e. wrongful dismissal.

Rory28

Suck it up OP. Jobs are scarce so instead of keeping records or working late, just come in on-time work until 5 and get the **** out of there.
If the manager wanted you gone you would be gone. Head down OP.

Chattastrophe!

OK you say that public transport, or moving closer to work, isn't an option for you.

That's not the company's problem - it's yours.

You say you regularly work late in the evenings anyways, and while you seem to consider it overtime, I wouldn't. I assume you're on a salary rather than a wage.

I know someone with a difficult commute to work. He leaves home early with the aim to be in work, sitting at his desk, a full hour before start time. He almost always is there an hour before. Sometimes he works, sometimes he arses about for that hour. On a bad day, he might be there just about on time - but the thing is, he's still there before start time. Always.

If you're not willing to pay the higher rent, I think you need to look at sacrificing time instead, rather than money. Leave a full hour earlier than you do now. Plan to be at your desk a full hour earlier. Use that hour as you wish - you could use it to work, and as a result leave on time that evening (rather than working late, as you mentioned.) You could use it to doss about, or to have breakfast in work rather than at home, or browse the internet - whatever.

Your employers don't really care about your circumstances outside of work, or how far you're commuting. When you signed up to the job, you committed to being there on time every day. If you're not willing to move closer to your job, it's up to you to adjust your timetable to allow for traffic and road accidents etc. I guess it comes down to what means more to you - money (increased rent) or time (leaving a lot earlier in the mornings) ... personally I'd probably go with leaving earlier in the mornings, as it means you'll probably get out on time in the evenings.

By the way, staying late in the evenings isn't really necessarily viewed as a good thing. Is there a reason you can't get your work done in the time considered necessary? Personally I'd rather go in early, get all my work done, leave on the dot of 5.30. Rather than being seen as that person who's stuck back late every evening because they can't get their work done on time.

And by the way, have you ever even tried doing the commute on public transport? Everyone gives out about it - I do too - but it's actually grand for the most part ... at least you skip the traffic, and don't have to worry about your car breaking down etc. It's a pain in the arse ... but I think that losing a job over timekeeping just because you prefer your car would be a much bigger pain in the arse.

AltAccount

That's actually a good idea tbh. From now on, leave home with the intention of being at work an hour early.

Not only will you not be late, but you'll get the reputation as someone who's a hard worker, and is there before anyone else.

Next time your manager and yourself sit down, it'll be to discuss career advancement, not warnings!

Mr McBoatface

If what the OP says is 100% accurate then IMO it's very poor management/decision by the Manager. Being late 2-3 times a year for reason outside of your control is not a big deal, especially in a salary position where extra hours are worked for no additional remuneration.Personally I think all the manager has achieved is a good worker disenfranchised.

If I was the OP I'd refuse to accept the warning and kick it up the HR ladder, even if the HR team decided against me It would at least put the manager out. I'd also leave work at what ever time was in my contract and not work extra hours and I'd make the reason known.

OP - A few sheep dressed up as wolves have responded here, they are trying to put you down. Ignore them and the "you are lucky are lucky to have a job" BS comments they usually come up with.

Mr. Loverman

jobyrne30 wrote: »

If I was the OP I'd refuse to accept the warning and kick it up the HR ladder, even if the HR team decided against me It would at least put the manager out. I'd also leave work at what ever time was in my contract and not work extra hours and I'd make the reason known.

OP, please don't do this. It'll just make HR and your manager hate you.

Just stop being late and improve your relationship with your manager.

Mr McBoatface

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

OP, please don't do this. It'll just make HR and your manager hate you.

Just stop being late and improve your relationship with your manager.

Nothing wrong with standing up for yourself or being "hated", bully boy (or girl) managers use the fear of being branded a trouble maker and the supposed impact it can have on your career against people.

How can the OP stop being late if something is outside of their control, what happens if they themselves are in crash or delayed because of a flat tyre ? There has to be reasonable give and take in work situations on all sides:- being late a grand total of 3 times in a year while working multiple hours outside of your normal hours for no extra pay does not warrant a warning, especially when others get away with worse.

Managers are paid to manage and that includes dealing with HR situations, if they want to avoid them then they should have a bit of cope on.

Mr. Loverman

jobyrne30 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with standing up for yourself or being "hated", bully boy (or girl) managers use the fear of being branded a trouble maker and the supposed impact it can have on your career against people.

How can the OP stop being late if something is outside of their control, what happens if they themselves are in crash or delayed because of a flat tyre ? There has to be reasonable give and take in work situations on all sides:- being late a grand total of 3 times in a year while working multiple hours outside of your normal hours for no extra pay does not warrant a warning, especially when others get away with worse.

Managers are paid to manage and that includes dealing with HR situations, if they want to avoid them then they should have a bit of cope on.

I am coming from a manager's perspective.

You have nothing to gain by proving a point (what point?) of never doing overtime/leaving at 17:30 on the dot/etc.

I don't understand why so many people think the solution to these problems is to create more tension with your manager. The smart thing to do is to befriend your manager.

NZ_2014

Your boss seems terribly inconsiderate to give you a warning for that. Some awful companies to work for out there!

They could be reading this thread for all you know.

Makes me laugh when I read people writing things like "I have an interview with company x at 2pm on Wednesday, any tips!?"