Are they demanding too much?

Irish Stones

Don't you think that they demand too much?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/muslims-in-ireland-seek-integration-not-assimilation-1.1917937

I mean, when they get what they ask in this issue, won't they come up with some more demanding requests?
In my opinion, integration means dealing with the lifestyle of the place where you live. How can one integrate into another community if they don't start living the same way and sharing the same moments of aggregation?
No wonder that immiigrants keep on living in closed groups.
It happens the same over here too, but nobody talks about it and no newspaper has an article about this matter.

L.Jenkins

Irish Stones wrote: »

Don't you think that they demand too much?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/muslims-in-ireland-seek-integration-not-assimilation-1.1917937

I mean, when they get what they ask in this issue, won't they come up with some more demanding requests?
In my opinion, integration means dealing with the lifestyle of the place where you live. How can one integrate into another community if they don't start living the same way and sharing the same moments of aggregation?
No wonder that immiigrants keep on living in closed groups.
It happens the same over here too, but nobody talks about it and no newspaper has an article about this matter.

It was said best on the Right Hook on Newstalk, the Irish have become a Liberal PC nation who won't say anything in fear of being called racist.

Buona Fortuna

Muslims in Ireland are not interested in assimilation, according to a new book to be published next Thursday. Titled Islam and Education in Ireland, it is written by Dr Ali Selim of the Islamic Cultural Centre in Dublin’s Clonskeagh who is also a lecturer at Trinity College Dublin and the Mater Dei Institute.

Dr Ali Salem has written a book. That book gives an alarmist view of muslims in Ireland. The book is being publicised on white Irish media. The book will most likely be bought and read by white Irish people.

Dr Ali is just getting his Christmas money in early :eek:

anncoates

It raises conflicting reactions for me.

Personally I find the idea of children (or adults) wearing the burqa distasteful but I don't think it should be banned. Ideally I'd like to see a secular democracy and education system where expression of faith is tolerated. He has a point though whereby you can hardly criticize when the education system here gives such blatant favour to anther religion.

Personally, I'd defend the right of people to practice their fault and have it accommodated t a certain extent but I really would not be happy about interactions with Muslim adults (as outlined in the article) being governed by what are basically sexist principles at the behest of religion.

pickarooney

Up to the point where he starts going on about the intolerant, sexist bull**** inherent in his religion I mostly agree with him. After that, he can **** off.

Caliden

I've no problem with hijabs, it's niqabs that concern me.
Hijabs are no different than old Bridie Guppins wearing a scarf around her head during the winter months.


A full face veil? No thanks.
People change when they have anonymity.


I understand his point about celebrating Catholic holidays and I do think other holidays (Ramadan, Passover) should get a mention even if it's just to educate students on other religions. I know nothing about either.


I think the bit on behaviour with the opposite sex crosses the line though. If they don't want to shake my hand that's fine but I think it's very unreasonable to expect me to follow their rules. If we started doing that, we would have to do it for every religion and that's a non-runner.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I didn't see anything wrong with their concerns till the point where he said he didn't see any problem with talk or preparations for Christmas in schools so long as the talk and songs etc didn't contain anything which may conflict with Muslim beliefs at which point I stopped reading. If they don't believe in Christian faith that's fine, send your children elsewhere. Why should traditions and beliefs be stifled for fear of upsetting or offending a child/person of a different religion especially when that religion is not native to this country!

I would have absolutely no problem in my children hearing and learning about Muslim beliefs and tranditions as it would be educational for them but it seems that the same doesn't work the other way around. The vast majority of Muslims are not irish by descent and chose to come and live here. They should be simply informed that this is the way it is here just like a catholic would have to accept life and traditions/beliefs in a Muslim country and get on with it. If they dont agree then they're free to leave and go elsewhere.

JoeyJJ

Lets have a bland life where were don't celebrate anything ever.

asteroids over berlin

And so if an Irish family move to a muslim country, they should write a book for the laws to be changed, and the muslims will oblige with open arms - my fcuk they will.

Whilst i have little time for any religion, Islam has got to be up there as one of the close minded ones, that exists, i say NO!

Ulysses Gaze

Irish Stones wrote: »

Don't you think that they demand too much?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/muslims-in-ireland-seek-integration-not-assimilation-1.1917937

I mean, when they get what they ask in this issue, won't they come up with some more demanding requests?
In my opinion, integration means dealing with the lifestyle of the place where you live. How can one integrate into another community if they don't start living the same way and sharing the same moments of aggregation?
No wonder that immiigrants keep on living in closed groups.
It happens the same over here too, but nobody talks about it and no newspaper has an article about this matter.

There is a fine line between acquiescing to certain cultural and religious practices and ultimately impinging on the free and democratic nature of the State.

The situation in the UK is a mess at the moment because they have never balanced the two out. What you are seeing there is a simmering resentment from a growing minority of the "indigenous" populous (much as I hate that word).

It was said best on the Right Hook on Newstalk, the Irish have become a Liberal PC nation who won't say anything in fear of being called racist.

Which, in the UK, led to incidents like Rotherham.

There is nothing wrong with having open, healthy debate.

smash

However, school uniforms can present a problem for Muslim students, he says. Some “cause discomfort, while others are exclusivist and divisive. Some school uniforms have the crucifix symbol and others have religious images such as saints.” It means “people of other faiths find their children in a difficult situation.”
He continues: “school is a public place, where no one has the right to dictate or impose their views or beliefs on another.””

Then you shouldn't wear a hijab, now should you....

osarusan

smash wrote: »

Then you shouldn't wear a hijab, now should you....

Wearing one isn't imposing views on anybody.

Saying you can't wear one is though.

biko

I see similar things in Sweden where for instance certain school activities have been moved from churches as to not offend muslims (and note that it's the Swedish left that makes these demands, not muslims themselves).

It seems to me than integration of active muslims is more difficult that people of other beliefs. And Singapore leader Lee Kuan Yew agrees: “I would say today, we can integrate all religions and races except Islam.” He also said: “I think the Muslims socially do not cause any trouble, but they are distinct and separate.”
And herein lies the crux: strict Muslims do not want to partake in regular society but seems to want to lead a separate existence, in parallel with regular society - and the article in my view conforms this.

smash

osarusan wrote: »

Wearing one isn't imposing views on anybody.

Yes it is. It is a religious statement in itself!

Gatling

So how will it work in a classs where a teacher says boys and girls are equals and a Muslim child tells mammy and daddy who in turn take offence to the idea and start complaining that there religious beliefs are been offended ,

Now on the other side of the arguement would irish non muslims be given the same response to been in a predominantly muslim school's

Irish Stones

I have to admit that I'm glad to read so many replies all oriented the same direction.
Here in Italy we had some cases of people from other countries who asked to remove all crucifixes from the schoolrooms walls because they were interfering with the education they were giving to their own children.
In all cases the request were rejected, but this is an evidence of how minorities in a country with different culture, religion, faith and customs might have an imposing power to the extent to generate a debate at political level.

In the case of the Muslims I think that the host country lives in a subjection condition for the fear that radicalists of this religion might act improperly.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

smash wrote: »

Then you shouldn't wear a hijab, now should you....

I'm assuming he doesn't.

always find it a bit hypocritical to want religion taken out of the classroom but to complain when that means things like Christmas and Easter preperations.

seamus

smash wrote: »

Yes it is. It is a religious statement in itself!

Making a religious statement is not imposing your beliefs on anyone else.

His point, which is correct, is that having school uniforms which include religious iconography puts people of other (or no) faiths in an uncomfortable position. It would be like having a Turban as part of a school uniform and requiring all children to wear one, properly wrapped.

I'm still trying to figure out what Dr. Selim's angle is. Whether he's a troll looking for more airtime or he's a genuine islamic fascist.

This is the second article now where there's sense for the first five lines, but then he goes on to talk about basically imposing sharia law in schools and on the streets.

Dravokivich

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I didn't see anything wrong with their concerns till the point where he said he didn't see any problem with talk or preparations for Christmas in schools so long as the talk and songs etc didn't contain anything which may conflict with Muslim beliefs at which point I stopped reading. If they don't believe in Christian faith that's fine, send your children elsewhere. Why should traditions and beliefs be stifled for fear of upsetij ing or offending a child/person of a diffetent religion especially when that religion is not native to this country!

I would have absolutely no problem in my children hearing and leArning about Muslim beliefs and traditions as it would be educational for them but it seems that the same doesn't work the other way around. The vast majority of Muslims are not irish by descent and chose to come and live here. They should be simply informed that this is the way it is here just like a catholic would have to acceot life age traditions/beliefs in a Muslim country and get on with it. If they do t agree then they're free to leave and go elsewhere.

When most schools are Christian based, it's very hard to send your kid somewhere else. I'd be more into removing religious lifestyle choices from public education. He puts forward a good point on it, but I feel for the wrong reason.

Irish Stones wrote: »

I have to admit that I'm glad to read so many replies all oriented the same direction.
Here in Italy we had some cases of people from other countries who asked to remove all crucifixes from the schoolrooms walls because they were interfering with the education they were giving to their own children.
In all cases the request were rejected, but this is an evidence of how minorities in a country with different culture, religion, faith and customs might have an imposing power to the extent to generate a debate at political level.

In the case of the Muslims I think that the host country lives in a subjection condition for the fear that radicalists of this religion might act improperly.

What about the locals themselves, not the imports? The state is supposed to have an obligation to us overall in reference to human rights. Not just impose the popular consensus upon us.

Jester252

I would argue that Christmas is more of a culture holiday than a religious holiday

Ulysses Gaze

Irish Stones wrote: »

I have to admit that I'm glad to read so many replies all oriented the same direction.
Here in Italy we had some cases of people from other countries who asked to remove all crucifixes from the schoolrooms walls because they were interfering with the education they were giving to their own children.
In all cases the request were rejected, but this is an evidence of how minorities in a country with different culture, religion, faith and customs might have an imposing power to the extent to generate a debate at political level.

In the case of the Muslims I think that the host country lives in a subjection condition for the fear that radicalists of this religion might act improperly.

I would disagree with this point. I think a previous poster hit the nail on the head. It's usually the radical, progressive Left that enables this behaviour. Sweden was the example they used.

I hate bringing it back up, but Rotherham was a Labour run council and the Social Services were made up of those with a progressive Leftish leaning.

Ush1

I love when an individual comes out and claims to speak for a religion and if anything said is bad(for instance the Westboro Baptist church), they are extremists, fringe, don't speak for all of that religion etc...

But when it's good or somewhat thought provoking, the individual is suddenly the chosen authority on their religion.

conorhal

That article leaves out his much more expansive list of demands that were in yesterday paper:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/socia...iefs-1.1915810

Dr Selim wants:

Islamic Holidays to be marked and celebrated
Special days off for Muslim children
Schools to actively participate in Ramadan by raising funds for "the needy"
A ban on raffles as a method of fund raising as they are "strictly forbidden" in Islam
"Crucial" changes to Relationships and Sexuality Education curriculum to exclude reference to or attempted normalization of pre-marital relationships
Exemptions and radical change to PE to ensure female only teachers and a ban on male staff accessing areas where girls might be taking lessons
All music to exclude any instruments that makes a note ("tunable instruments")
School Plays to forbid any physical contact between boys and girls and a ban on gender role reversals.


There are just too few cultural touchpoints in common to integrate muslim immigrants into western societies, so to avoid the kind of balkanization of society that we see across the water, immigration from Islamic states shoud be restricted and Dr. Selim needs to be told in no uncertian terms to piss off.

The Pole's arrived here and for the most part have integrated quite well, so have most other immigrant communities:

All we get from these shysters however are demands to reorganize our society to accomodate their exclusion from it, accomodated by breathtaking cultural cowardice of our craven politicians who won't have a word to say on the matter. I'll certiantly not be holding my breath for a statement from Jan O' Sullivan telling him where he can shove his book.

smash

seamus wrote: »

His point, which is correct, is that having school uniforms which include religious iconography puts people of other (or no) faiths in an uncomfortable position. It would be like having a Turban as part of a school uniform and requiring all children to wear one, properly wrapped.

Then don't send your Muslim children to a Catholic school. That's trolling of the highest order! Get them in to the school, and then try and make the school change it's ways to suit you? Feck off...

Dravokivich

Jester252 wrote: »

I would argue that Christmas is more of a culture holiday than a religious holiday

It would have been associated with festivals to celebrate the coming of a new year.

As Easter would have been associated with spring.

Dravokivich

smash wrote: »

Then don't send your Muslim children to a Catholic school. That's trolling of the highest order! Get them in to the school, and then try and make the school change it's ways to suit you? Feck off...

The issue isn't just of Muslims going to Catholic schools. More often than not the only choice is a Catholic school, or uproot to where there's the few that aren't.

osarusan

smash wrote: »

Yes it is. It is a religious statement in itself!

It may be a religious statement, but it isn't an imposition, unless you think that any display of relgious clothes/accessories is an imposition.

If a teacher wears a crucifix necklace/pendant, is that an imposition?

bogmanfan

When Islamic countries allow westerners to drink and wear swimsuits in public, then we can allow them to wear their niqabs over here

Ulysses Gaze

smash wrote: »

Then don't send your Muslim children to a Catholic school. That's trolling of the highest order! Get them in to the school, and then try and make the school change it's ways to suit you? Feck off...

Interesting that you mention this.

In the UK, more and more Muslims are sending their children to Catholic schools because the standard of education is generally considered to be better.

Here is a good example - note there is integration here as pupils attend Catholic assemblies in the Morning. Also quote from the article:

‘Our school is largely made up of Muslim children whose parents are happy to have them attend a Christian school. For the church, this is a new reality.
‘At school, the pupils hear about the teachings of Jesus but they are not imposed on them.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174050/The-Catholic-primary-school-90-cent-pupils-Muslim.html

smash

Dravokivich wrote: »

The issue isn't just of Muslims going to Catholic schools. More often than not the only choice is a Catholic school, or uproot to where there's the few that aren't.

That's a completely separate issue though. Non dom or multi dom schools are popping up more regularly these days. There are of course issues that they generally don't have an associates secondary school but if there's no other option than a catholic junior school, then suck it up and let your kids have their own beliefs, but don't try and make a whole catholic school change it's beliefs or teaching just because you can't find an alternative. Next thing they'll be requesting schools to change their names because St. Bridgets or whoever, is 'Offensive'.

osarusan wrote: »

It may be a religious statement, but it isn't an imposition, unless you think that any display of relgious clothes/accessories is an imposition.

If a female teacher wears a crucifix necklace, is that an imposition?

In a catholic school? No it's not.

seamus

smash wrote: »

Then don't send your Muslim children to a Catholic school.

That's not a feasible option for a large majority. 90% of the schools in this country are run by the Catholic church and funded by the State, despite freedom of religion being a fundamental part of our constitution.

90% of Irish people aren't Catholic, yet have to endure Catholicism being imposed on their children because they have no other choice for schooling.

smash

seamus wrote: »

90% of Irish people aren't Catholic, yet have to endure Catholicism being imposed on their children because they have no other choice for schooling.

But you don't see Irish people up in arms about it because lets face it, they're at school for education and most people will school their kids at home about religious beliefs.

seamus

smash wrote: »

But you don't see Irish people up in arms about it because lets face it, they're at school for education and most people will school their kids at home about religious beliefs.

I don't see Muslims being up in arms about it either.

This one guy has been quoted in the paper criticising the Catholic-centric Irish education system, but so too have Michael Nugent of Atheist Ireland and Brian Whiteside of the Humanist association.

So if you think it's only Muslims complaining about the lack of non-Catholic schools, you're wrong. Non-muslim people too are complaining about it.

Interesting BTW that you draw a difference between "Irish" and "Muslim". Are you sure Dr. Selim isn't Irish?

FTA69

This is a load of toss out of your man to be honest. I work in a community centre in Tower Hamlets in East London, the immediate area I work in is 85%+ Muslim. A significant part of my job is helping get Muslim women into training and education and we also have free, community-based English lessons which I help teach occasionally. Our classes are mixed between gender and everyone really enjoys them. No eye-contact with members of the opposite sex?? F*ck right off. It's not my experience in dealing with literally hundreds of Muslim women anyway. When I brought my mother in one weekend, all the men shook her hand and were very friendly.

The type of Islam that this fella is advocating represents the worst tendency in religious fanaticism and repressive conservatism; it is a message of disempowerment of women dressed up as protecting modesty and respecting culture. I know plenty of Bengali and Pakistani women who would think he's talking out of his hole and have no bother in telling him that either.

I agree with him that religious symbolism shouldn't be stamped all over the education system. The French have the right idea, ban the lot of it. Any Republic should have a fair and inclusive non-denominational system for all. That also applies to Islamic symbolism in education as that.

If he has a problem with that then tough sh*t.

Dravokivich

smash wrote: »

That's a completely separate issue though. Non dom or multi dom schools are popping up more regularly these days. There are of course issues that they generally don't have an associates secondary school but if there's no other option than a catholic junior school, then suck it up and let your kids have their own beliefs, but don't try and make a whole catholic school change it's beliefs or teaching just because you can't find an alternative. Next thing they'll be requesting schools to change their names because St. Bridgets or whoever, is 'Offensive'.



In a catholic school? No it's not.

The issue of the Catholic schools being in such an overwhelming majority, is that they are Public/National schools. As such present an endorsement from the state that this is what the state promotes as the public/national ideal.

It's easy to tell a kid to disregard any significance to the Catholic stories, but it shouldn't have to come to that. I doubt it's changed much, but when I was in primary school from the 80's/90's a large portion of time was taken up by preparing for confession/communion/confirmation. Sure now the Sacraments are done outside of school time. But all the prep work is done throughout a couple months beforehand during it.

It's not taught as a belief system, but as something one does. This is part of the point the guy was making in the article. however instead of looking for it to be taken out of schools, he wants to add more into it. Which I think makes a mess of his point.

average hero

To answer the question - are they asking too much? Yes and no.

There is no problem with Islam or for any other religion for that matter. The thing is, I don't hear of Buddhist or Hindi people making similar demands. Islam is growing throughout Europe - fair enough you may say as I do viewing that as a standalone fact.

The problem I see is the bending over backwards of some countries (see Swedish example above) to do their utmost not to offend Muslims. This is admirable in one way. In another way it could be viewed as Muslims failing to integrate into a society that has accepted them and hoped that they integrate fully and respect the history and traditions of their host country.

This is one reason why the US is so successful at integration. EVERY child pledges allegiance to their flag and their country. They are proud of being from one place, with one citizenship while respecting and tolerating each others diverse ethnic and religious backgrounds (on paper anyway). I am not advocating this style of nationalism in Europe, but we take the complete other route, which is to allow others to change OUR traditions, our ways of life, for fear of being called intolerant.

As stated, no problems with Islam or Muslims. I do however feel that we should cut back on the bending over backwards style of conforming to their wants and to have a happy integration of them to our countries, our cultures and ultimately where they have chosen to come.

padd b1975

Itzy wrote: »

It was said best on the Right Hook on Newstalk, the Irish have become a Liberal PC nation who won't say anything in fear of being called racist.

All of us??

Gatling

My eldest goes to a gael scoil it's a Catholic like the majority of schools here .
But they don't celebrate St patricks day instead they have green day after one non national parents complained about it .
One of the funniest moments came when during Green Day teachers painted polish flags on 8/ 10 pupils who's parents were polish , only for the parents complain about there kids are irish and shouldn't be treated as been from Poland .

People complain about lack of choice but yet it's still a fairly new dilemma 20 years ago there wasn't a major issue with schools now everyone wants choices after choices ,
But what does it matter as long as there getting the best education

Frynge

Most of what is laid out in the article is a non issue. Over the years I've read many treads on boards wher the line "if irish were in their country we would have to conform to their way of life" is spewed out. This may come as a shock to many people but for the majority of Muslims in Ireland do conform to our way of life.

Having about 40 Muslims work for me in Ireland over the last number of years, the biggest issue we have encountered is simply pronouncing their names correctly.

I have never once had any expierience of them treating women any different to how everyone else treats women. Never witnessed any wear burqas. Only know of one who doesn't drink or eat pork because of their religion, and only know one other who makes sure to say his prayers during the day ( he only does it as long as we are not too busy).

Their May be 65000 Muslims in Ireland but I would reckon a high percentage of them are about as Muslim as most irish are catholic.

FTA69

Frynge wrote: »

Most of what is laid out in the article is a non issue. Over the years I've read many treads on boards wher the line "if irish were in their country we would have to conform to their way of life" is spewed out. This may come as a shock to many people but for the majority of Muslims in Ireland do conform to our way of life.

Having about 40 Muslims work for me in Ireland over the last number of years, the biggest issue we have encountered is simply pronouncing their names correctly.

I have never once had any expierience of them treating women any different to how everyone else treats women. Never witnessed any wear burqas. Only know of one who doesn't drink or eat pork because of their religion, and only know one other who makes sure to say his prayers during the day ( he only does it as long as we are not too busy).

Their May be 65000 Muslims in Ireland but I would reckon a high percentage of them are about as Muslim as most irish are catholic.

Interesting enough your experiences, were they Turkish out of curiosity? The vast majority of Muslims I deal with are pretty doctrinaire about their religion, I've only met one Bengali man who has a very occasional drink and he only took that up when he moved to Waterford! The vast majority of Muslim women I deal with wear the hijab and some wear the niqab (face veil). Nearly all of them fast, only eat halal and generally pray five times a day.

Donkey Oaty

From the IT article:

When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”.

How very broad-minded of them.

Who elected this guy as a spokesperson? He's not doing Irish Muslims any favours at all.

the_syco

Where the wearing the hijab by Muslim girls in Irish schools is concerned he says this “shouldn’t cause any more debate than other religious symbols worn by either male or female students in Irish schools do.”

I think a few schools ban all jewelry... so no hijabs there either?

As for the rest of the rules, there's a nice Islamic school in Dublin. He doesn't seem to want integration, he seems to want to impose the will of some cult upon the schools in Ireland. And as we're getting rid of the last cult finally, IMO he can eff right off. We need less cults in our school, and not just replace one cult with another nastier cult.

Oh, and as for no male staff member in the same room when the kids are having a lesson, are you having a f**king laugh mate?

Drums can be tuned

Dravokivich

bluewolf wrote: »

Drums can be tuned

Shush!

I was adjusting the skins on a few to get them to play out twinkle twinkle little star to rile'em up!

dissed doc

Irish Stones wrote: »

Don't you think that they demand too much?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/muslims-in-ireland-seek-integration-not-assimilation-1.1917937

I mean, when they get what they ask in this issue, won't they come up with some more demanding requests?
In my opinion, integration means dealing with the lifestyle of the place where you live. How can one integrate into another community if they don't start living the same way and sharing the same moments of aggregation?
No wonder that immiigrants keep on living in closed groups.
It happens the same over here too, but nobody talks about it and no newspaper has an article about this matter.

I think we should be weak minded needy, eager to please losers who should plan the direction of our republic based on the ejaculate cultural export from the UK and US.

We should not be bothered, when no cares of gives us gold stars, that the need to appear non-racist trumps the ability, unawakened as yet, to simply do and say and direct our communities and country at will.

We should also remove as much as possible any hint of influence from non-Anglophone countries, as it would risk the creation of a national identity beyond the one that is the anxious avoidant attachment to mother monoglot while remaining constantly dissatisfied, as there is no reward at the end, which doesn't ever have a defined point.

Donkey Oaty

bluewolf wrote: »

Drums can be tuned

I'm sure there is a way of tampering with a darbuka to make it fixed-pitch, resistant to temperature fluctuations, etc., and therefore untunable and Sharia-friendly.

Maybe we could slip a xylophone into the mix under some theological loophole as well.

Irish Stones

Dravokivich wrote: »

What about the locals themselves, not the imports? The state is supposed to have an obligation to us overall in reference to human rights. Not just impose the popular consensus upon us.

Locals have no particular problem at attending places where religious symbols are displayed, afaik.
Some parents argue that schools should not be imposing any religious mindset on pupils, but the probelms ends right there, it's just their opinion.
Several sentences following the cases of those people who made those strange requests stated that a crcuifix on a wall is not an imposing of a religious belief and is part of the cultural ground of the people native to that area.

FTA69

Yeah they hate music the Muslims:

This fella is a grade A w*nker. I wish these religious loopers would just f*ck off and let normal folk get on with their lives without breathing down their neck with a pile of reactionary b*llocks.

Annasopra

seamus wrote: »

That's not a feasible option for a large majority. 90% of the schools in this country are run by the Catholic church and funded by the State, despite freedom of religion being a fundamental part of our constitution.

90% of Irish people aren't Catholic, yet have to endure Catholicism being imposed on their children because they have no other choice for schooling.

I think that 90% refers to Primary schools?

Grayson

Gatling wrote: »

So how will it work in a classs where a teacher says boys and girls are equals and a Muslim child tells mammy and daddy who in turn take offence to the idea and start complaining that there religious beliefs are been offended ,

Now on the other side of the arguement would irish non muslims be given the same response to been in a predominantly muslim school's

To be fair when if a muslim says that men and women aren't equal they could reference catholicism as their justification. They could point to the fact that women were air brushed out of the new testament, the only woman who survived was then called a whore. That's besides the fact that women weren't allowed talk in church till the 60's and they had to cover their hair. they locked up pregnant, or even just attractive, women. Oh and they can't become priests. The catholic church is not an example of an equal opportunities organisation.

I think religion, both christian and muslim, should be gotten out of schools. It should be there as a comparative religion course. All schools should teach that evolution is correct and teach tolerance (ie, specifically call out that homosexuality is natural and discriminating against gay people etc is wrong) .
Schools can help local religions by providing classrooms for Sunday schools etc. No religion should be excluded from this unless it's promoting a message of hate.

But the school should be non denominational and shouldn't promote any religion.

osarusan

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Who elected this guy as a spokesperson? He's not doing Irish Muslims any favours at all.

This is what I thought too.

Could easily be assumed (and will be assumed by plenty, I'd say) that this guy speaks for all Muslims, and they all want all of these things.