Where are the salmon going?

anthonyc123

On my local river the salmon numbers are down drastically in the last two years. The numbers are cut so much that it can't be natural.

I know other rivers have the same problem.

There has to be an external factor that is causing this decline in fish. I really don't believe the theory that the run is getting later every year.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It seems the recent rain has helped. Water levels were very low this year and last.
http://fishinginireland.info/news/category/salmon-reports/

thefisherbuy

Hi,


There's lot of causes, Netting, Poaching, Over fishing! Etc I'm fishing on of my local rivers And have'nt seen a fish in 3 trips! Went out when it was on a falling flood but nothing, Also there could be problem out in sea to, So We just have to wait and see!

anthonyc123

There doesn't seem to be any investigation into why this is happening. Anglers should really be up in arms about this.

2 years ago I could go fishing and see up to 20 salmon jumping in my time. Now I have seen 2 salmon showing in close to 40 days fishing.

danbrosnan

Can I ask in what locality you fish in?

popsy09

depends on what river your fishing ? big rivers may still allow salmon to run if they want but the majority of them will wait for rain

the last flood that was on my local river the blackwater was in june so numbers are drastically down , blackwater lodge which is normally a great blog to see old catch records and recent catches is down 150 fish approx from last august

the tidal section is full of fish i have never seen so many in the one spot

pheasant tail

I'm working up in Donegal here and seemingly the numbers have never been lower. It's very worrying what's going to happen the sector in the future. I'd say more and more rivers will be changing to catch and release in the coming years. Even though that's not the problem, the fish are going out but not retuning, sea survival is the issue. Global warming perhaps?

Mr Bumble

West coast poaching offshore in the migration lanes is rampant, from Killybegs to Arthurstown. Austerity has made fish a source of income for many who had given up when the legal nets came off. Ask birdwatch ireland people how many fixed nets they bounce over when they're doing offshore colony surveys. It's easy to blame some unknown at sea for the fact that we don't look after our own backyard properly. Until we know what's happening at sea further north, we can't do anything about it but we could do more at home. IFI on the ground do their best but they are hamstrung by local lobbies,fixers and thugs....like everything else here.
Does anyone know whether there is a requirement that restaurants show the provenance of game fish on their menus? It should all be traceable to a net. If not, this is something that would have an instant impact. I was in a place on a lake near Killarney back in Apirl which had wild salmon on the menu. I asked where it was from and they laughed and pointed to the lake.
We don't ever confront the problem here. They're selling salmon and sea trout door to door in housing estates. It wouldn't take a fuggin swat team to catch them.

danbrosnan

Mr Bumble wrote: »

West coast poaching offshore in the migration lanes is rampant, from Killybegs to Arthurstown. Austerity has made fish a source of income for many who had given up when the legal nets came off. Ask birdwatch ireland people how many fixed nets they bounce over when they're doing offshore colony surveys. It's easy to blame some unknown at sea for the fact that we don't look after our own backyard properly. Until we know what's happening at sea further north, we can't do anything about it but we could do more at home. IFI on the ground do their best but they are hamstrung by local lobbies,fixers and thugs....like everything else here.
Does anyone know whether there is a requirement that restaurants show the provenance of game fish on their menus? It should all be traceable to a net. If not, this is something that would have an instant impact. I was in a place on a lake near Killarney back in Apirl which had wild salmon on the menu. I asked where it was from and they laughed and pointed to the lake.
We don't ever confront the problem here. They're selling salmon and sea trout door to door in housing estates. It wouldn't take a fuggin swat team to catch them.

Thank god a bit of sense, I applaud you....

You hit the Nail on the head..

The IFI is full of academics and office workers, there is some very good personal, but the must of them prefer the write papers and reports...

There could be anything from 1000 to 10000 illegal nets on our Irish coastline and they will continue to ignore it...

Then you need to add in the legal nets that the IFI grant licence's for...

Also people need to understand is that alot of anglers or people that are perceived to have a valid opinion nearly always have a vested interest with the IFI...

Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing..

dodderangler

When would they start heading back to sea?

anthonyc123

danbrosnan wrote: »

Thank god a bit of sense, I applaud you....

You hit the Nail on the head..

The IFI is full of academics and office workers, there is some very good personal, but the must of them prefer the write papers and reports...

There could be anything from 1000 to 10000 illegal nets on our Irish coastline and they will continue to ignore it...

Then you need to add in the legal nets that the IFI grant licence's for...

Also people need to understand is that alot of anglers or people that are perceived to have a valid opinion nearly always have a vested interest with the IFI...

Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing..

Good reply.

Mr Bumble

dodderangler wrote: »

When would they start heading back to sea?

I only know Currane well in that context and there's generally two runs of smolt to sea...one in April ish and another later in the year. But that can change by a month or two either way depending on local conditions. Different systems vary.
Adult salmon returning to sea happens from any time after they spawn but they usually take a few months to get to the mouth of the river again. I don't know it to be true but some say that the biggest fish don't hang around and leave quickly.
There's a contradictory view emerging of how good or bad the year is. Currane has had two good years for salmon back to back.
A lot of very small rivers seem to have salmon and sea trout back and I'm hearing anecdotal reports of good runs in a lot of small kerry, cork and even east coast rivers.
But it doesn't matter how many fish are running rivers if there are nets waiting for them.
It is completely out of control apart from some areas where IFI staff are on the ground and watching.

Zzippy

danbrosnan wrote: »

Thank god a bit of sense, I applaud you....

You hit the Nail on the head..

The IFI is full of academics and office workers, there is some very good personal, but the must of them prefer the write papers and reports...

There could be anything from 1000 to 10000 illegal nets on our Irish coastline and they will continue to ignore it...

Then you need to add in the legal nets that the IFI grant licence's for...

Also people need to understand is that alot of anglers or people that are perceived to have a valid opinion nearly always have a vested interest with the IFI...

Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing..

Talk about ill-informed nonsense! Slate the people who are trying to protect fisheries, and forget the politicians who cut budgets, the judges who issue pitiful fines, the anglers who see illegal activity and don't call it in, etc. You have a major chip on your shoulder...but of course you're probably a visionary, anyone who disagrees with you must have a vested interest :rolleyes:

1000 to 10000 illegal nets? You haven't a clue...

Zzippy

danbrosnan wrote: »

Thank god a bit of sense, I applaud you....

You hit the Nail on the head..

The IFI is full of academics and office workers, there is some very good personal, but the must of them prefer the write papers and reports...

There could be anything from 1000 to 10000 illegal nets on our Irish coastline and they will continue to ignore it...

Then you need to add in the legal nets that the IFI grant licence's for...

Also people need to understand is that alot of anglers or people that are perceived to have a valid opinion nearly always have a vested interest with the IFI...

Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing..

Talk about ill-informed nonsense! Slate the people who are trying to protect fisheries, and forget the politicians who cut budgets, the judges who issue pitiful fines, the anglers who see illegal activity and don't call it in, etc. You have a major chip on your shoulder...but of course you're probably a visionary, anyone who disagrees with you must have a vested interest :rolleyes:

1000 to 10000 illegal nets? You haven't a clue...

Mr Bumble

Zzippy wrote: »

Talk about ill-informed nonsense! Slate the people who are trying to protect fisheries, and forget the politicians who cut budgets, the judges who issue pitiful fines, the anglers who see illegal activity and don't call it in, etc. You have a major chip on your shoulder...but of course you're probably a visionary, anyone who disagrees with you must have a vested interest :rolleyes:

1000 to 10000 illegal nets? You haven't a clue...

Beg to differ .... attack the post and not the poster.
Dan has particular knowledge of an area from the way I read it and my knowledge of the same area backs up what he says.
There is an extraordinary concentration of nets from Cromane out to Brandon, around the coast towards Waterville, up the Kenmare river and further south off Beara.
I have found nets in Currane.
That's in the lake.
Both the Cummeragh and Capal rivers into the back lakes are netted at several points. This is just one system.
The Inny is poached to death.

There is virtually no IFI enforcement in that area. In 20 years fishing the lake, I've been asked to show my licence once.


You have no idea of the real world if you dispute this.

danbrosnan

Zzippy wrote: »

Talk about ill-informed nonsense! Slate the people who are trying to protect fisheries, and forget the politicians who cut budgets, the judges who issue pitiful fines, the anglers who see illegal activity and don't call it in, etc. You have a major chip on your shoulder...but of course you're probably a visionary, anyone who disagrees with you must have a vested interest :rolleyes:

1000 to 10000 illegal nets? You haven't a clue...

Send me your email address and ill send you gps locations of 100 nets tied in the dingle peninsula alone..

Again I am not hiding behind an avatar, only people that play ball will be employed by the IFI...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

danbrosnan wrote: »

Send me your email address and ill send you gps locations of 100 nets tied in the dingle peninsula alone..

Again I am not hiding behind an avatar, only people that play ball will be employed by the IFI...

If these nets are illegal, have you emailed the GPS coordinates to IFI KR any other body?

Zzippy

Mr Bumble wrote: »

Beg to differ .... attack the post and not the poster.
Dan has particular knowledge of an area from the way I read it and my knowledge of the same area backs up what he says.
There is an extraordinary concentration of nets from Cromane out to Brandon, around the coast towards Waterville, up the Kenmare river and further south off Beara.
I have found nets in Currane.
That's in the lake.
Both the Cummeragh and Capal rivers into the back lakes are netted at several points. This is just one system.
The Inny is poached to death.

There is virtually no IFI enforcement in that area. In 20 years fishing the lake, I've been asked to show my licence once.


You have no idea of the real world if you dispute this.

Do you have any idea how many staff IFI have in Kerry? IFI have lost over 150 staff in the last 5 years, most of them protection staff, yet all they staff get is bull**** from keyboard warriors saying they do nothing. My point is that instead of directing abuse at staff trying to do their job in very difficult circumstances, it would be better aimed at the government who hamstring IFI by slashing budgets and staff numbers. I certainly do live in the real world and I have a lot more knowledge than you of the hard work the staff on the ground do. Kerry has been particularly hard hit, there are a tiny few staff to cover the whole area. By the way I fish Dingle a cpl times a year and have never seen a net, but statistically that doesn't mean anything, same as saying there are up to 10,000 nets off the coast has no basis in fact. And from personal and professional experience of much of the rest of the west coast, I can say its bull

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

And just for balance, I have fished the rivers and lakes of the north east for over 60 years and have never come across a net. So extrapolation of one local experience nationally would give me a total of zero - no more accurate than Dan's assertion number wise.

anthonyc123

I was informed by a local chef that there was a path worn to the back door of his kitchen offering him fresh Salmon.

Poaching was always a problem on Irish rivers. It was seen by those people as a victimless crime or a us(them) against the Bailiffs.
But in recent years it has become a means to get beer money. All these fish were sold to local houses and some restraunts on the QT.

I think this is matched with the legal estuary netting. With river levels being low in the last two years, the estuary nets could all make their quota ( although I don't really believe they stop there).Any salmon I have caught up until July will have net marks.

When the IFI were at their peak It was a rare occassion when I seen one on the river. Although I do believe they managed to deter quite a few poachers. But valuable resources were wasted up around the Gweebarra preventing local anglers from fishing the rivers they should have reasonable annual access to.

Now the IFI staff have been cut, it makes the situation all the worse. The only thing that is saving some of the salmon in the pools is high water.

It's a sad state. I don't believe catch and release helps any, because it just encourages more poaching.

danbrosnan

Zzippy wrote: »

Do you have any idea how many staff IFI have in Kerry? IFI have lost over 150 staff in the last 5 years, most of them protection staff, yet all they staff get is bull**** from keyboard warriors saying they do nothing. My point is that instead of directing abuse at staff trying to do their job in very difficult circumstances, it would be better aimed at the government who hamstring IFI by slashing budgets and staff numbers. I certainly do live in the real world and I have a lot more knowledge than you of the hard work the staff on the ground do. Kerry has been particularly hard hit, there are a tiny few staff to cover the whole area. By the way I fish Dingle a cpl times a year and have never seen a net, but statistically that doesn't mean anything, same as saying there are up to 10,000 nets off the coast has no basis in fact. And from personal and professional experience of much of the rest of the west coast, I can say its bull

I have not once stated any abuse or inaccurate information towards our officers here in kerry, i know all the fisheries officers down here and i won't name them but i have met them a number of times this year...

I found two nets on formoyle beach this year on a sunday and rang it in and two officers who i know came and seized the nets, in total this year i have rang in about 5 times... these were all certain illegal nets that i was actually standing alongside...

Only last month i rang one in that was being pulled in cromane on a saturday and there was no officer on duty, a well known officer from waterville had to come from a hour and half to the location, he rang me fair play to him and i also had a great chat to him...

I sent those gps locations of about 30 locations around the peninsula that have nets all through the summer to a fishery officer that i know...

I was on the phone last week to a fishery officer for about an hour and i hear there plight, we talked about the problems, and the cars which they drive in which are scandalous with the IFI written across them...

He talked about various things which he is completely helpless to fix and again i understand...

The IFI as a whole are not being there job, thats a fact...

ZZippy i don't know what your gripe with me is but the op was stating his opinion on the number of salmon and yes i agree with him...

As far as i know i think you are connected with the IFI in some way and i understand that it might hurt when you hear opinions that you don't agree with.. For that i am sorry...

But the fact is there is a board with the IFI which are earning very good money and they should be all sacked...

The IFI will in the future come under massive scrutiny and people will be held accountable for the blatant misuse of funds, lack of protection and the unbelievable state of our marine stocks...

Its not just the IFI but also the HSE...

I am no keyboard warrior, the fact is i am out nearly every day either in a river or the sea, i am better placed then anybody in the area that i know to have an opinion on whats going on...

Don't keep dissecting my opinion and calling me stupid names, again you know who i am, you can find out very easy where i live and what am i about...

Nobody knows who you are...

anthonyc123

I was informed by a local chef that there was a path worn to the back door of his kitchen offering him fresh Salmon.

Poaching was always a problem on Irish rivers. It was seen by those people as a victimless crime or a us(them) against the Bailiffs.
But in recent years it has become a means to get beer money. All these fish were sold to local houses and some restraunts on the QT.

I think this is matched with the legal estuary netting. With river levels being low in the last two years, the estuary nets could all make their quota ( although I don't really believe they stop there).Any salmon I have caught up until July will have net marks.

When the IFI were at their peak It was a rare occassion when I seen one on the river. Although I do believe they managed to deter quite a few poachers. But valuable resources were wasted up around the Gweebarra preventing local anglers from fishing the rivers they should have reasonable annual access to.

Now the IFI staff have been cut, it makes the situation all the worse. The only thing that is saving some of the salmon in the pools is high water.

It's a sad state. I don't believe catch and release helps any, because it just encourages more poaching.The unfortunate thing is if the salmon numbers improved on the river, the season for estuary netting would be extended.

danbrosnan

anthonyc123 wrote: »

I was informed by a local chef that there was a path worn to the back door of his kitchen offering him fresh Salmon.

Poaching was always a problem on Irish rivers. It was seen by those people as a victimless crime or a us(them) against the Bailiffs.
But in recent years it has become a means to get beer money. All these fish were sold to local houses and some restraunts on the QT.

I think this is matched with the legal estuary netting. With river levels being low in the last two years, the estuary nets could all make their quota ( although I don't really believe they stop there).Any salmon I have caught up until July will have net marks.

When the IFI were at their peak It was a rare occassion when I seen one on the river. Although I do believe they managed to deter quite a few poachers. But valuable resources were wasted up around the Gweebarra preventing local anglers from fishing the rivers they should have reasonable annual access to.

Now the IFI staff have been cut, it makes the situation all the worse. The only thing that is saving some of the salmon in the pools is high water.

It's a sad state. I don't believe catch and release helps any, because it just encourages more poaching.

I worked as a chef for a a couple of years as a young fella, i once worked in a restaurant in ballybunion, this place is a very well known restaurant and the owner is of higher pedigree in the area... "Thinks he is anyway"

One sunday about 12 o clock i was washing lettuce in the back sink and a fella came in with 12 salmon the biggest about 25lb, all poached from the cashen, he got 70 euro per salmon, that day i handed back my apron to the owner and told him he could keep his job..

Anybody who wants the name of the restaurant can pm..

danbrosnan

Moses Many Xerox wrote: »

And just for balance, I have fished the rivers and lakes of the north east for over 60 years and have never come across a net. So extrapolation of one local experience nationally would give me a total of zero - no more accurate than Dan's assertion number wise.

well srameen a many pics do you want of nets??? since 1980 i have pictures of over 300 nets, first all confiscated by my father as a fishery officer and the rest of nets i have seen in the last ten years..

Pm me i will kindly send every single one..

Mr Bumble

Moses Many Xerox wrote: »

And just for balance, I have fished the rivers and lakes of the north east for over 60 years and have never come across a net. So extrapolation of one local experience nationally would give me a total of zero - no more accurate than Dan's assertion number wise.

Dan lives and works the area as far as I know and it is quite a big area with river systems of national and international significance within it. I'm sure he can speak for himself.

In the first place, I gave credit to IFI men and women on the ground, working in poor circumstances. I have yet to meet one who wasn't fully committed.
Dan speaks about deskbound bureaucrats and why is that such an unreasonable subject? They exist. I know the culture in the IFI. I know that a huge effort was made to police East Coast bass grounds after the subject received major publicity. They are reactive and not proactive in terms of implementing policy. IFI people will tell you that.
I don't know what the corporate structure is but I would like to see some numbers. My guess would be that it follows the same pattern as all state bodies which have been reorganised, reformed or redeployed and carries staff overlaps which have never been properly dealt with. How many out in the field compared to letter writers? I'd be interested to know.
Fisheries protection cannot be done in an office.
One man I know who looks after a fishery near where Dan speaks of suggests arming bailiffs as they do in Alaska. You've got to ask yourself why a reasonable man who has the best motives would even think of suggesting this. When he first said it, I laughed but he may be right. Poachers are well organised and will switch to violence without hesitation.

I have no reason to lie about permit checking. Once, on opening day on Currane, the IFI (SWFB at the time)were there in numbers. But those lads were moved to another area shortly afterwards. Wonder why? Do you seriously think that this doesn't happen. Seriously, wake up.

I know IFI men/women well and would count a few as good friends. They agree with a lot of what Dan says.
As an example, (which proves nothing I accept), 68 nets were lifted in the Kenmare channel when they were dragging for two unfortunate fishermen. And that's just what they found.
Simply by saying it's not true doesn't make that so. Poachers are not fools. They don't leave nets out for you to find. When anglers are about, poachers are not. It's no surprise you haven't seen nets.

I carry a good sharp knife on Currane in case I find one. Two in the last two years. Locals involved in the lake are now so concerned that they have considered hiring people specifically to keep an eye on it. Don't know where that lies at the moment but it is significant that they felt the need to take independent action.

danbrosnan

https://www.facebook.com/DinglePeninsulaFishing/photos/pcb.938620652819742/938618346153306/?type=1&theater

In the end they called him a poacher, a criminal, a mad man and revoked his bailiff licence...

Its funny how the crucify the just..

He turned to drink and is nearly 32 years sober today, the man taught me everything i know, and i will continue the fight any way i can..

Tight lines,

I going fishing..

Mr Bumble

I note Dan's suggestion that you (Zzippy) have or had a professional connection with the IFI (or whatever it was in the past). It would be helpful if you could confirm this.
Your reaction to both Dan and myself is to attack the poster when at no stage that I can see have either of us had a go at the IFI staff on the ground. Exactly the opposite.
It's all about vested interests.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

danbrosnan wrote: »

well srameen a many pics do you want of nets??? since 1980 i have pictures of over 300 nets, first all confiscated by my father as a fishery officer and the rest of nets i have seen in the last ten years..

Pm me i will kindly send every single one..

Dan, that is not what I was saying. My point was that you cannot extrapolate the nets you have evidence of to the whole country and come up with a figure like 10000. Your observations, and those of your father, are perfectly valid. So are mine. Somewhere between the two the the figure lies but exaggeration driven by your obvious obsession on the matter does not help the argument.
I don't want to PM you for photos. I think I know what a net would look like and I don't PM on Boards anyway. But thank you for the offer. Look, I believe you but it's just the overly robust line taken that results in the argument becoming lost in the noise.
We all here are anglers and I think we all have the good of the sport and the fish at heart, so let's not let semantics and such divert the discussion.
For what its worth I have no connection with IFI but find they are doing a marvellous job with the resources available to them. They need more funding but I accept that that is not a priority in the current economic situation.
As for the salmon, numbers here were slow but it has improved greatly with the recent rains. Water is dropping fast however, son all may change again.

bizidea

I only started salmon fishing five years ago and I can even notice the numbers dwindling in that space of time which is frightening when you think about it. Along with the nets at sea poachers nets and the lack of food at sea and even some of us anglers. I think the two hard winters of 09 and 10 have effected the numbers of salmon that have survived to return to their spawning grounds would it be these fish that were born in these years that would be returning this year. I think that a lot of the spawn and fry would have died in these two winters a lot of the streams and even main rivers would have been frozen solid for months.

Mr Bumble

bizidea wrote: »

I only started salmon fishing five years ago and I can even notice the numbers dwindling in that space of time which is frightening when you think about it. Along with the nets at sea poachers nets and the lack of food at sea and even some of us anglers. I think the two hard winters of 09 and 10 have effected the numbers of salmon that have survived to return to their spawning grounds would it be these fish that were born in these years that would be returning this year. I think that a lot of the spawn and fry would have died in these two winters a lot of the streams and even main rivers would have been frozen solid for months.

Agree completely. The two bad winters had a big impact but clearly not everywhere.

Mr Bumble

Moses Many Xerox wrote: »

Dan, that is not what I was saying. My point was that you cannot extrapolate the nets you have evidence of to the whole country and come up with a figure like 10000. Your observations, and those of your father, are perfectly valid. So are mine. Somewhere between the two the the figure lies but exaggeration driven by your obvious obsession on the matter does not help the argument.
I don't want to PM you for photos. I think I know what a net would look like and I don't PM on Boards anyway. But thank you for the offer. Look, I believe you but it's just the overly robust line taken that results in the argument becoming lost in the noise.
We all here are anglers and I think we all have the good of the sport and the fish at heart, so let's not let semantics and such divert the discussion.
For what its worth I have no connection with IFI but find they are doing a marvellous job with the resources available to them. They need more funding but I accept that that is not a priority in the current economic situation.
As for the salmon, numbers here were slow but it has improved greatly with the recent rains. Water is dropping fast however, son all may change again.

Unless you worked a bailiff in an area like Dan's dad over many, many years, i can't see how your observations or mine have the same weight. It was his livelihood and he was a professional water-keeper, essentially.
Are you on the water every day?
Are you employed as a fisheries officer?
If so, I bow to your wisdom but if not, you're like the rest of us.....concerned anglers with opinions.
I would also point out that neither myself or dan have engaged in semantics.
I am also amazed at how the normally very chatty zippy hasn't answered my question about his own potential vested interest which is surely relevant. I have no connection with any fisheries body, state or otherwise.
He obviously used up a lot of energy misreading both my posts and dans. I have rarely seen someone miss the points being made so spectacularly.
The only people who emerge with any credit out of all of this are the IFI staff on the ground.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Mr Bumble wrote: »

Unless you worked a bailiff in an area like Dan's dad over many, many years, i can't see how your observations or mine have the same weight. It was his livelihood and he was a professional water-keeper, essentially.
Are you on the water every day?
Are you employed as a fisheries officer?
If so, I bow to your wisdom but if not, you're like the rest of us.....concerned anglers with opinions.
I would also point out that neither myself or dan have engaged in semantics.
I am also amazed at how the normally very chatty zippy hasn't answered my question about his own potential vested interest which is surely relevant. I have no connection with any fisheries body, state or otherwise.
He obviously used up a lot of energy misreading both my posts and dans. I have rarely seen someone miss the points being made so spectacularly.
The only people who emerge with any credit out of all of this are the IFI staff on the ground.

I think Dan can well respond for himself - and I accept his personal experiences.
I also don't feel I have to justify my own experiences to you. I wrote fact based on over 60 years fishing. Yes I am on the water 5 days a week at least - river, lake and coast. My profession is immaterial but I was, as it happens, involved in wildlife and environmental protection and active in the field for over 40 years. Satisfied????

Mr Bumble

No, not really.
You are not and have not been a fisheries protection officer then. Dans father was. The experience he has is surely more relevant than yours. I didn't ask you to justify yourself.
You clearly feel that you have wisdom to bestow on this forum and by virtue of being here for a while, you words carry extra weight. They actually don't.
Most forums go this way. Honest debate has to be filtered though ego.

Ipso

I'd say pollution in upstream areas doesn't help, especially with the way some houses were thrown up recently.

SeaFields

Mod. Attack the post, not the poster. This is a first and final warning

rpmcmurphy

Mr Bumble wrote: »

No, not really.
You are not and have not been a fisheries protection officer then. Dans father was. The experience he has is surely more relevant than yours. I didn't ask you to justify yourself.
You clearly feel that you have wisdom to bestow on this forum and by virtue of being here for a while, you words carry extra weight. They actually don't.
Most forums go this way. Honest debate has to be filtered though ego.

I don't think that anyone's profession is anyone else's business and completely irrelevant to the op topic. You dismiss someone who has a lifetime of experience in environmental/ecological/angling areas yet attempt to add weight to Dan's opinions based on the experiences of someone else i.e. his father. My dog once won a prize in a local agricultural show. I don't plan on entering myself into next year's working-dog section in Cruffs.

Mr Bumble

How is fisheries protection and those who do it irrelevant to the topic? Where do I "dismiss someone". Never happened. I give more weight to one opinion than another.
I think it is entirely reasonable to ask someone to back up their opinion with relevant experience.
The semantic argument was a dispute over Dan's claim that there could be as many as 10,000 nets around our coast. My opinion is that he may not be far off the truth. That's the simplicity of it.
And Mod, if you check back, I think you'll find that posts by myself and Dan were attacked by a contributor. No warning there? Why not?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Owenea, Inagh and ballinahinch are showing lively salmon numbers this week after the rain. The Erriff and Moy are also reporting improvements.

SeaFields

Mr Bumble wrote: »

And Mod, if you check back, I think you'll find that posts by myself and Dan were attacked by a contributor. No warning there? Why not?

If you have a problem with a mod decision, PM them. Do not do it on thread

Flysfisher

Moses Many Xerox wrote: »

Owenea, Inagh and ballinahinch are showing lively salmon numbers this week after the rain. The Erriff and Moy are also reporting improvements.

Just back from two days on the moy. Ignore those IFI reports they are all crap. the fishing is very poor, awful.
Terrible season.

danbrosnan

Flysfisher wrote: »

Just back from two days on the moy. Ignore those IFI reports they are all crap. the fishing is very poor, awful.
Terrible season.

Now I prefer to take the info from the man on the ground then a person behind a computer desk...

Why is it so terrible do you think?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Flysfisher wrote: »

Just back from two days on the moy. Ignore those IFI reports they are all crap. the fishing is very poor, awful.
Terrible season.

I was just going by the success two of my nephews had there last week. The fish they had looked fit and in good shape - all released. But it must be sporadic so.

anthonyc123

Moses Many Xerox wrote: »

Owenea, Inagh and ballinahinch are showing lively salmon numbers this week after the rain. The Erriff and Moy are also reporting improvements.

I fish on the Owenea. While the salmon numbers are up on what they were earlier in the year. It's still nowhere near where it was 2-3 years ago.

stylie

Erm no mention that this is far from an Irish problem ? Every country with a run of Atlantic Salmon are reporting low numbers. Greenland however have had a bumper resumption to their netting program, I should mention too the Faroes are enjoyed a good netting season too.

Mr Bumble

Interesting point stylie and very relevant to the discussion. More nets!! Can't really get away from them - be it in Greenland or Greenore. Whatever is happening at sea in an environmental sense is still murky. But nets are nets, physical things which can be destroyed. One pull through a pool can wipe out an entire generation. If the fish that do make it back are on restaurant tables or being hawked around our towns, we're doing a pretty good job of wiping out the species before you even consider factors at sea.

BTW...I would recommend "The Salmon" by Michael Wigan which takes a bit of reading but is a remarkable study of the economics of the salmon and how America's early development was very closely linked to East Coast salmon runs. It opened my eyes to many things I never knew or understood about salmon, historically and economically.

Pike Eater

It's becoming hard to catch anything around Dublin Kildare Offaly etc. think I might take a trip further a field this week.

danbrosnan

Mr Bumble wrote: »

Interesting point stylie and very relevant to the discussion. More nets!! Can't really get away from them - be it in Greenland or Greenore. Whatever is happening at sea in an environmental sense is still murky. But nets are nets, physical things which can be destroyed. One pull through a pool can wipe out an entire generation. If the fish that do make it back are on restaurant tables or being hawked around our towns, we're doing a pretty good job of wiping out the species before you even consider factors at sea.

BTW...I would recommend "The Salmon" by Michael Wigan which takes a bit of reading but is a remarkable study of the economics of the salmon and how America's early development was very closely linked to East Coast salmon runs. It opened my eyes to many things I never knew or understood about salmon, historically and economically.

I read that book also and I actually have it on sale on eBay!

Yes Greenland has a lot to answer for but the sad reality is all we in Ireland can do is get our side of the street clean...

Remember if everybody agreed with everything there would not be a human race, the IFI need an opposition everybody just agreeing with them and as far as I am concerned they not even at 20%...

Tight lines...

anthonyc123

One last question: The anglers catch are published every year. Is there somewhere we can view the catch report for the estuary netters?

josephxxx451

fisheriesireland.ie/Salmon-Management/wild-salmon-and-sea-trout-statistics.html

Flysfisher

danbrosnan wrote: »

Now I prefer to take the info from the man on the ground then a person behind a computer desk...

Why is it so terrible do you think?

The hard winers of 2010 and 2011 killed a lot of eggs.