Dispute over Damage with Budget

keithclancy

Rented a car during the week with Budget from Cork Airport, when picking up the car paid additional money for an upgrade and got a Nissan Juke.

First of all the car wasn't in the correct spot in the Car Park and spent 30 minutes looking for it.

Then upon finding it and inspecting for damage I found additional damage that was not marked on the sheet.

Went back to the desk and was told that it was noted on the sheet that it was written on the sheet that there were light scratches with ¨L/S Also" written down.

Got the guy to mark the additional damage although he did not come out to the car park inspect it, nor did he mark it using the carbon copy paper, he just marked it directly on the sheet (I don't know if he marked this on their copy)

Upon dropping back in Dublin airport yesterday the guy came in and asked if I had hit anything, I said no, he then went on to say that the Wing Mirror was damaged and it was not marked on the sheet, I said I was aware of it and that it was noted.

He maintained that the damaged marked on the wing section was in a different place than where it should have been, although where he maintained the scratch is marked there is no damage.

So after some back and forth the guy said I would have to go to the desk in the Airport. Went there and spoke to the girl at the desk. Filled out a report form and stated pretty much as to what I had written above.

Took pictures of the damage and now have a 1350 euro hold on my card until they carry out an investigation.

Girl at the desk was going on about them "Checking CCTV" in the car park, to be honest I think she was just saying random things that didn't really mean anything.

In my view they should be able to provide me with a Pictures showing the area undamaged prior to rental to prove that I caused the damage (which I did not since I saw the damage prior to taking the car away anyway)

Just looking for some advice on the best way to proceed, or what other peoples experiences were with the process.

RiseToMe

Did you take pictures of the damage on the day you picked up the rental still parked in their space with identifiable things in the background to prove it was taken before you drove it?

Anytime I rent a car I walk around it and take pictures of it before I set foot in it. Same when I drop it back, generally in the petrol forecourt of the airport.

Rubberchikken

don't have any advice to help in this situation. but have read that when renting a car, take plenty of photos.
they're probably trying it on with you. money making racket.

keithclancy

RiseToMe wrote: »

Did you take pictures of the damage on the day you picked up the rental still parked in their space with identifiable things in the background to prove it was taken before you drove it?

Anytime I rent a car I walk around it and take pictures of it before I set foot in it. Same when I drop it back, generally in the petrol forecourt of the airport.

Yes I took pictures.
However I don't see how it could be identified as the pickup point.

ratracer

keithclancy wrote: »

Yes I took pictures.
However I don't see how it could be identified as the pickup point.

The time and date stamp on your pictures should be good enough to sort it out. If they are looking at CCTV they will know what time you picked up the car at, your pictures should confirm the time and the damage being there before you drove the car.

RiseToMe

ratracer wrote: »

The time and date stamp on your pictures should be good enough to sort it out. If they are looking at CCTV they will know what time you picked up the car at, your pictures should confirm the time and the damage being there before you drove the car.

And it will be seen on cctv that you took pictures before driving it and have them as proof, sorted.

ironclaw

keithclancy wrote: »

Yes I took pictures.
However I don't see how it could be identified as the pickup point.

If you took it with a decent smart phone, the GPS data will be embedded in the image. It will show as being in Cork etc.

What level of insurance did you have on the car? With Hertz you can bring back a ball of scrap and as long as you have the keys, you can just walk away.

EDIT: Just checked your upload there, you have a Motorola XT1032 and took it on 2014/08/31 at 17:05:44. No GPS info though

Caliden

ironclaw wrote: »

If you took it with a decent smart phone, the GPS data will be embedded in the image. It will show as being in Cork etc.

What level of insurance did you have on the car? With Hertz you can bring back a ball of scrap and as long as you have the keys, you can just walk away.

EDIT: Just checked your upload there, you have a Motorola XT1032 and took it on 2014/08/31 at 17:05:44. No GPS info though

The actual photo on the phone could have the metadata, sometimes it's stripped from the photo when uploading.

keithclancy

FFS ... no Luck this week ... Went out to pickup the dog from the Kennels and found my own cars battery is as dead as a dodo.

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

keithclancy

In fariness to Budget, called this morning, got through to a very nice lady and she replied in less than an hour.

Got this reply a few minutes ago:

---

Further to our telephone conversation earlier today, please be advised that the damage to our car was pre-existing and therefore not sustained during your rental.

I have made note of this on your rental and so you will not be charged for these damages.

Should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,
*name removed*
Budget Car Rental Ireland

---

So they don't always try to rip people off !

Marcusm

I think they do always try but are backng off quickly as you have some evidence (even if not proven quality). I was recently denied a prepaid SixT rental in Duboin because I was being "too picky" about the recording if damage. Bear in mind they wanted me to simply drive it away from an unlit car park off the airport with no opportunity to view it in the light (seriously). A cousin had a nightmare with Hertz who, after being rear ended, changed their minds about following through on the insurance claim on the basis that, as Americans, they must have other insurance. The greatest part if the charge being transporting it to Wexford to have the bumper re sprayed (paint scratch, no damage to bumper or elsewhere noted by Hertz after inspection).

I just hope that someday rental companies will be able to accept annual rental excess policies.

Hal1

They try though. I wonder how many have fallen victim to the tactics.

keithclancy

Marcusm wrote: »

I think they do always try but are backng off quickly as you have some evidence (even if not proven quality). I was recently denied a prepaid SixT rental in Duboin because I was being "too picky" about the recording if damage. Bear in mind they wanted me to simply drive it away from an unlit car park off the airport with no opportunity to view it in the light (seriously). A cousin had a nightmare with Hertz who, after being rear ended, changed their minds about following through on the insurance claim on the basis that, as Americans, they must have other insurance. The greatest part if the charge being transporting it to Wexford to have the bumper re sprayed (paint scratch, no damage to bumper or elsewhere noted by Hertz after inspection).

I just hope that someday rental companies will be able to accept annual rental excess policies.

In fairness it hadn't even gotten to that stage yet, just called them and asked if they could check the previous damage reports which they did and then I got 2 missed calls and an e-mail 45 minutes later saying the above.

pete4130

Take photos of any rental before accepting on a smart phone, then email said photos to yourself stating date, time, location, what car, any damage existing and being shown in photos. Negates any hassle further down the road. Emails are time stamped. Simple thing to do.

Yamanoto

pete4130 wrote: »

Take photos of any rental before accepting on a smart phone, then email said photos to yourself stating date, time, location, what car, any damage existing and being shown in photos. Negates any hassle further down the road. Emails are time stamped. Simple thing to do.

I rent from Alamo in the States quite a bit & routinely give the car the once-over prior to exiting the airport - video walk-around & pics documenting any anomalies etc. Problem is, a lot of those multi-storey car parks are poorly lit & it's only when you hit the hotel that some of the finer imperfections on the bodywork become apparent.

Sheldons Brain

This car hire hassle is usual. The airport could provide a public service by having some sort of third party operated camera at the entrance to these parking areas where you could stop the car there and it would be photographed from each side, preventing arguments over the facts.

pete4130

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

This car hire hassle is usual. The airport could provide a public service by having some sort of third party operated camera at the entrance to these parking areas where you could stop the car there and it would be photographed from each side, preventing arguments over the facts.

Who's paying for that? Car hire....doubt it as it doesn't do them any favours. It'd be added onto your rental charge. Not really workable.

djimi

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

This car hire hassle is usual. The airport could provide a public service by having some sort of third party operated camera at the entrance to these parking areas where you could stop the car there and it would be photographed from each side, preventing arguments over the facts.

In this day and age when the majority of people are carrying around a digital camera in their pocket there probably is no real need for these measures. People just need to be a bit more clued in when renting a car, and take the initial inspection more seriously.

Spook_ie

Maybe I'm just lucky but ( touch wood ) never had any problems with hire cars or companies in Spain or USA.

Gosub

Marcusm wrote: »

I think they do always try but are backng off quickly as you have some evidence (even if not proven quality). I was recently denied a prepaid SixT rental in Duboin because I was being "too picky" about the recording if damage. Bear in mind they wanted me to simply drive it away from an unlit car park off the airport with no opportunity to view it in the light (seriously). A cousin had a nightmare with Hertz who, after being rear ended, changed their minds about following through on the insurance claim on the basis that, as Americans, they must have other insurance. The greatest part if the charge being transporting it to Wexford to have the bumper re sprayed (paint scratch, no damage to bumper or elsewhere noted by Hertz after inspection).

I just hope that someday rental companies will be able to accept annual rental excess policies.

Not sure what you mean here. I've had a car hire excess policy for years. Cost 50 euro per year for unlimited rentals.

Never had a problem with hire companies accepting it. My son has the same and needed to use it once. No problem with either the hire company or the insurance. The hire company just charge your card and the insurance company pay it back to you.

Marcusm

Gosub wrote: »

Not sure what you mean here. I've had a car hire excess policy for years. Cost 50 euro per year for unlimited rentals.

Never had a problem with hire companies accepting it. My son has the same and needed to use it once. No problem with either the hire company or the insurance. The hire company just charge your card and the insurance company pay it back to you.

You're still in the middle of the claim, ie you have to pay out and then wait for recovery. Often the payout and claim currencies are different plus admin, international phone calls and other hassles. Given the global networks of hire cos, I would hope ultimately that be an acceptable transnational policy with the hirer's only respinsibility being to provide the policy number.

keithclancy

Marcusm wrote: »

You're still in the middle of the claim, ie you have to pay out and then wait for recovery. Often the payout and claim currencies are different plus admin, international phone calls and other hassles. Given the global networks of hire cos, I would hope ultimately that be an acceptable transnational policy with the hirer's only respinsibility being to provide the policy number.

You are only liable up to the amount of the excess, you left a deposit for the excess with your credit card.

The rental company accepting other Excess insurance would leave them open to problems and potential fraud while the hirer was trying to save a few quid.

If you want to reduce your excess to zero then you take the rental companies insurance.

Although this does not generally cover Tyres or Windscreen

Marcusm

I've had excesses of up to £3,000 and hire frequently across continents. Each global network could have a panel of acceptable insurances. Mine has a cover limit of £5k. It may not be an issue for everyone and I've never had a valid claim upheld by a hire co. It can, however, be a substantial hassle.

keithclancy

Marcusm wrote: »

I've had excesses of up to £3,000 and hire frequently across continents. Each global network could have a panel of acceptable insurances. Mine has a cover limit of £5k. It may not be an issue for everyone and I've never had a valid claim upheld by a hire co. It can, however, be a substantial hassle.

3000 pounds ... must have been a premium car, highest I ever had was 2200 for a 5 Series.

Why exactly would it be in the Rental Companies interest to do that ?

Marcusm

keithclancy wrote: »

3000 pounds ... must have been a premium car, highest I ever had was 2200 for a 5 Series.

Why exactly would it be in the Rental Companies interest to do that ?

I have two Dublin rentals this month each with €3,000 excesses. Avis calls them "premium" but that's not how I would describe a boggo spec A4 or 5 series. On each occasion, because of BA promotions, the "premium" cars were cheaper than a Corsa, Focus etc. In each case I hope to convince them to give me a petrol Octavia which was what I got from Avis the night I had the problems with Sixt. Not what I'd usually drive but perfectly good. That evening was a master class in customer service, when it went to car park to take the Skoda, I watched the people who had been in front of me in the Avis queue reverse their car into my nominated Skoda. Cue another 15 minutes albeit with hilarious Avis staff rather than the dour SixT desk staff nor the boorish/aggressive SixT depot manager.

Vis a vis why the high excess, on a true premium finish car, minor scratches can be very expensive. Audi and BMW fleet car finishes would not fall into that category.

Gran Hermano

Keithclancy, out of curiosity did you use a foreign drivers licence as ID/when booking?

keithclancy

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Keithclancy, out of curiosity did you use a foreign drivers licence as ID/when booking?

No, still on my Irish License for the last 7 years.

Sheldons Brain

pete4130 wrote: »

Who's paying for that? Car hire....doubt it as it doesn't do them any favours. It'd be added onto your rental charge. Not really workable.

Make this a condition of using car hire parking on airport property. It doesn't have to have hugely high tech equipment nor cost a large amount.

dr.fuzzenstein

pete4130 wrote: »

Take photos of any rental before accepting on a smart phone, then email said photos to yourself stating date, time, location, what car, any damage existing and being shown in photos. Negates any hassle further down the road. Emails are time stamped. Simple thing to do.

That has just become my standard policy when renting cars in the future. Brilliant.

Stinicker

I'd refuse a car that was damaged unless they clearly made note of it. Many American Credit Card will provide an insurance for renting a car, the only two countries they refuse in Europe is Italy and Ireland where there is high levels of claims like this. The rental car sector in Ireland is very expensive to begin with and that's before this sort of thing begins to happen. I always get full CDW and the most insurance so that no matter what happens I'm insured.

goz83

I rent in Spain a couple times a year. Always insist on airport based rentals with desks in main airport building. Any unmarked damage is marked on my sheet and brought back to the desk, so they can mark it and sign it on theirs too. Sometimes they try to fob you off and say they know about it, but I won't take the car until it's marked on paper and signed by the rep. No problems yet. I will be using that photo and email ideamin future though. Simply brilliant.

ironclaw

Can I ask why people don't just take out the Super Cover of whatever? Literally it doesn't matter what shape the car is in before or after. Yeah it costs a little more but for a car that isn't yours it removes any hassle what so ever. Had two incidents with Hertz, neither my fault, and handed the keys back at the end. Never heard a word about it.

As regards the email idea, unless you have roaming or a data connection in the airport, not much use.

loyatemu

ironclaw wrote: »

Can I ask why people don't just take out the Super Cover of whatever? Literally it doesn't matter what shape the car is in before or after. Yeah it costs a little more but for a car that isn't yours it removes any hassle what so ever. Had two incidents with Hertz, neither my fault, and handed the keys back at the end. Never heard a word about it.

or use these guys: https://www.carhireexcess.com/

keithclancy

ironclaw wrote: »

Can I ask why people don't just take out the Super Cover of whatever? Literally it doesn't matter what shape the car is in before or after. Yeah it costs a little more but for a car that isn't yours it removes any hassle what so ever. Had two incidents with Hertz, neither my fault, and handed the keys back at the end. Never heard a word about it.

As regards the email idea, unless you have roaming or a data connection in the airport, not much use.

Well generally I don't bang my own car off stuff and I rent around 5-8 times a year so the amount it costs, (with Budget anyway it was an additional 16 euros a day on an economy rental) this would be 125% of what I paid for the rental cost.

Add that up over a couple of years and the amount I would have paid in the excess insurance is far far more than the excess on an individual rental.

If you have problems driving on unfamiliar roads, the other side of the road then I guess its just a peace of mind thing.

If I cause damage then I have no problem paying what I owe, but if you treat it like your own car then I don't see why you should expect to damage it.

ironclaw

keithclancy wrote: »

Well generally I don't bang my own car off stuff and I rent around 5-8 times a year so the amount it costs, (with Budget anyway it was an additional 16 euros a day on an economy rental) this would be 125% of what I paid for the rental cost.

Add that up over a couple of years and the amount I would have paid in the excess insurance is far far more than the excess on an individual rental.

If you have problems driving on unfamiliar roads, the other side of the road then I guess its just a peace of mind thing.

If I cause damage then I have no problem paying what I owe, but if you treat it like your own car then I don't see why you should expect to damage it.

Whilst I agree with you, both rentals in question, one was a door removed by San Francisco's finest scum and the other was the tight streets of the Canary Islands, where honestly the panel beaters must be kept minted as the locals drive by touch most of the time :pac:

The way I kinda of see it, and I've done massive mileage in rentals, is for 16E a day, one incident will pay for it and some. I suppose its like any insurance, the gamble of it happening versus not happening.

dr.fuzzenstein

ironclaw wrote: »

Can I ask why people don't just take out the Super Cover of whatever? Literally it doesn't matter what shape the car is in before or after. Yeah it costs a little more but for a car that isn't yours it removes any hassle what so ever. Had two incidents with t, neither my fault, and handed the keys back at ethe end. Never heard a word about it.

As regards the email idea, unless you have roaming or a data connection in the airport, not much use.

I don't see why I should give in to the scam of the car hire firms where I have the choice of paying way more than i should do or face being screwed for damage I didn't cause.

edit:
And it's a matter of principle. How often was a scratch not marked down, the poor sap billed for it, scratch never repaired and the next guy gets done for it as well? It must be a nice little earner for the rental companies to keep getting paid for the same scratch over and over again.

keithclancy

ironclaw wrote: »

Whilst I agree with you, both rentals in question, one was a door removed by San Francisco's finest scum and the other was the tight streets of the Canary Islands, where honestly the panel beaters must be kept minted as the locals drive by touch most of the time :pac:

The way I kinda of see it, and I've done massive mileage in rentals, is for 16E a day, one incident will pay for it and some. I suppose its like any insurance, the gamble of it happening versus not happening.

Over the years I've saved at least 3-4k euros not getting the zero excess insurance.

At this stage I would have to have around 3 write offs before it would make sense to get zero excess insurance :pac:

It's already paid for itself a few times over.

Marcusm

keithclancy wrote: »

Over the years I've saved at least 3-4k euros not getting the zero excess insurance.

At this stage I would have to have around 3 write offs before it would make sense to get zero excess insurance :pac:

It's already paid for itself a few times over.

An annual policy costs approx £50. I think it's worthwhile but I wish that it was possible to register the policy with the hire car to avoid the charge. I've never done damage to a hire car either but supermarket dings happen all the time.

ednwireland

loyatemu wrote: »

or use these guys: https://www.carhireexcess.com/

i usually get this, never needed to use it mind, had one company claim it was useless as they might not repair a car until the end of a lease for minor damage so they wouldn't send a quote to the excess insurance company. not sure what happens then.

useless company mind most fuel inefficient car i've had was from green motion, a ix20 with start stop couldn't have done more than about 30mpg :pac:

loyatemu

ednwireland wrote: »

i usually get this, never needed to use it mind, had one company claim it was useless as they might not repair a car until the end of a lease for minor damage so they wouldn't send a quote to the excess insurance company. not sure what happens then.

thats not how it works

the hire company bills your credit card for the excess, you pay it and send the bill to carhireexcess.com for reimbursement. when the car actually gets repaired is irrelevant.

the one disadvantage I found (over paying the hire company for their no-excess policy) is you still have to inspect the car before taking it, which is time-consuming. If you take the hire-company's policy they just give you the keys and off you go...