Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

Balotelli just doesn't fit in the current system.

He should be better when Sturridge comes back. Well, he must be.

SlickRic

rarnes1 wrote: »

Balotelli just doesn't fit in the current system.

He should be better when Sturridge comes back. Well, he must be.

i think he can fit, but he needs someone else who can create space, a la the Spurs game where you have Sterling and Sturridge pulling them all over the shop.

Royal Legend

SlickRic wrote: »

the problem is simple.

no Suarez and Sturridge = no unplayable movement. that means less space for the midfielders to attack into.

we also don't have their ability to take the ball on and create something out of fúck all.

if you lose that, you need a solid defensive structure. we don't have that.

over the last few weeks, we needed the ability to beat teams 1-0. the lack of solidity, and lack of organisation when a ball comes into the box means that that has been impossible.

Sturridge will paper over those cracks when he returns because we'll score more, but those issues MUST eventually be addressed properly.

there was a slight improvement Saturday, but we still couldn't close it out.

What is worrying is that Brendan does not appear to have learnt lessons from last season. I found it surprising that when we were on the back foot on Saturday that the substitutions he made were attacking, when what we needed to do was shore up midfield. Its great that he has an attacking philosophy, but sometimes you need to hold what you have and Brendan seems abject to doing this, which will definitely cost us in Europe at the very least

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

i think he can fit, but he needs someone else who can create space, a la the Spurs game where you have Sterling and Sturridge pulling them all over the shop.

Hopefully

Connavar

Royal Legend wrote: »

What is worrying is that Brendan does not appear to have learnt lessons from last season. I found it surprising that when we were on the back foot on Saturday that the substitutions he made were attacking, when what we needed to do was shore up midfield. Its great that he has an attacking philosophy, but sometimes you need to hold what you have and Brendan seems abject to doing this, which will definitely cost us in Europe at the very least

I disagree to an extent. We were allowing them to run at us and sitting really deep(something that we haven't been good at in ages)
He was probably hoping that an attacking sub would spur us forward where we look much more comfortable holding on to posetion

SlickRic

i had no problem with Brendan's subs really.

our main issue is defending set plays, and generally any crosses into the box. that's where the focus needs to be.

brevity

I think Rodgers is caught between a rock and hard place at the moment. Because of our midfield situation, he cannot really afford to put two up top. He's probably tried to focus on not conceding over scoring goals.

I think Borini should play ahead of Marcovic myself.

Fescue

brevity wrote: »

I think Rodgers is caught between a rock and hard place at the moment. Because of our midfield situation, he cannot really afford to put two up top. He's probably tried to focus on not conceding over scoring goals.

I think Borini should play ahead of Marcovic myself.

It seems to me that the biggest challenge facing Rodgers is telling Gerrard he won't be starting every game.

5live

brevity wrote: »

I think Rodgers is caught between a rock and hard place at the moment. Because of our midfield situation, he cannot really afford to put two up top. He's probably tried to focus on not conceding over scoring goals.

I think Borini anyone should play ahead of Marcovic myself.

FYP:)

I was underwhelmed, to say the least, by Markovich on Saturday. I know its early days but he seemed totally overwhelmed by playing and very off the pace of the game, imo.

If Sturridge comes back in for Markovich then that will be our 'strongest' 11.

Pilsbury Doughboy

Coutinho in for Markovic as the only change for West Brom, presuming that Sturridge and Allen aren't back. I thought Coutinho done well on Saturday when he came on. I would like to see a team with a front six of Allen,Hendo,Lallana,Sterling,Balo,Sturridge at some point.

razorblunt

Royal Legend wrote: »

What is worrying is that Brendan does not appear to have learnt lessons from last season. I found it surprising that when we were on the back foot on Saturday that the substitutions he made were attacking, when what we needed to do was shore up midfield. Its great that he has an attacking philosophy, but sometimes you need to hold what you have and Brendan seems abject to doing this, which will definitely cost us in Europe at the very least

I don't think you can use Saturday as a good example though, Everton didn't do much for the whole game and in the end it was a pearler from a CB who hadn't scored in donkeys to tie it up.

MD1990

Borini doesn't look good enough. I know he hasn't got a run of games but his first is terrible.

Luckycharms_74

daithijjj

Fescue wrote: »

Apologies, i've been on hols.

Problem with this stuff is its interpretative.

That looks bad for Sakho.......or does it?. Spurs had 1 shot on target in 90 mins in a game Skrtel never played. Maybe we just do a hell of a lot more defending when Sakho isnt around?.

I notice this chart above has left out the fact above that we conceded 6 goals more under a Skrtel and Lovren combo?. 6 goals more!!!!!

rob316

Sakho just give me palpitations. He struggles to trap a ball, and that header for the 3rd west ham goal was just comical, for all of Skrtel's fault he his good with the ball and wouldn't head a ball like that. Skrtel and Lovren is our best pairing and we should give them the time to prosper.

On Lovren once he settles with Skrtel by his side I'm confident he well go onto be an excellent signing for us.

I'm fairly slow to criticise our defence though as what they have protecting them isn't sufficient IMO.

8-10

So would you start Sakho on Wednesday or not?

Fescue

daithijjj wrote: »

Apologies, i've been on hols.

Problem with this stuff is its interpretative.

That looks bad for Sakho.......or does it?. Spurs had 1 shot on target in 90 mins in a game Skrtel never played. Maybe we just do a hell of a lot more defending when Sakho isnt around?.

I notice this chart above has left out the fact above that we conceded 6 goals more under a Skrtel and Lovren combo?. 6 goals more!!!!!

I thought the 4 statistics I picked would be a fair reflection of what a defender should be doing. Obviously the sample size is small.

When I couple those statistics with what I see during the games, Skrtel and Lovren are by far the best pairing we have.

If Sakho improves and pushes ahead of them I'd be delighted but right now he's a distant third, possibly 4th given the squad for the Everton game.

Demosthenese

I'm excited about our backline to be honest, we have 2 good fullbacks, young hungry and eager to contribute. They've hit the ground running and we should be happy with their form - once we get Skrtel and Lovern playing regularly beside them it is a pretty good defence as a 4. We need to give them time. That said, as a collective back 5 they need to have more of a ruthless streak in them and for setpieces they need to up the concentration considerably although that goes for the whole team. It's not rocket science - stop wrestling with the opponent and go and win the header!

As for saying BR has not learned, he has and there were signs of it on Saturday when we hit the last 15mins, we basically pushed them wide (Villa/West Ham were steamrolling through the middle) and Everton had no idea how to break us down. You could see Stevie bringing the players in nice and tight as a group. Defend deep ... like what we've been up against. We did not get our just reward for this ... but that's football.

Agent Coulson

To be honest it really doesn't matter who makes up our back 4 is to be honest.

They are going to be exposed time and again if we play a diamond without a proper DM and a nervous goalkeeper behind them.

They need to be coached either play a high line or sit deep.

They need to be coached what to do for free kicks and corner against them for the system the manager wants to play.

Until all this is coached in training and sorted out in training Laurel and Hardy or Hansen and Lawrenson could be our centre backs and it wouldn't make a difference.

Skrtel is not a great defender. He was poor last season, a season where we shipped the most goals in years. I think it was even worse than the Hodgson season.

How the guy escapes criticism from some is beyond me.

Fescue

rarnes1 wrote: »

Skrtel is not a great defender. He was poor last season, a season where we shipped the most goals in years. I think it was even worse than the Hodgson season.

How the guy escapes criticism from some is beyond me.

I don't think he's a great defender at all, he's a decent defender and at this moment in time deserves to be in the team.

Nerdlingr

rarnes1 wrote: »

Skrtel is not a great defender. He was poor last season, a season where we shipped the most goals in years. I think it was even worse than the Hodgson season.

How the guy escapes criticism from some is beyond me.

He might not be a great defender but he better than Sakho.

Utopia Parkway

rarnes1 wrote: »

Skrtel is not a great defender. He was poor last season, a season where we shipped the most goals in years. I think it was even worse than the Hodgson season.

How the guy escapes criticism from some is beyond me.

Honestly I think his goals covered up a lot of sins last year. He got 7 league goals last season but you can't really rely on a centre-half to reproduce that goal haul. He might only get 1 or 2 this season.

Demosthenese

rarnes1 wrote: »

Skrtel is not a great defender. He was poor last season, a season where we shipped the most goals in years. I think it was even worse than the Hodgson season.

How the guy escapes criticism from some is beyond me.

Skrtel has been more solid than most in that position, considering our options. He had a good season aside from the mistakes he made he also shipped in with 7 goals and some were vital. I think you are combining "shipped most goals" thinking that it is purely a defensive issue! Last season was a cavalier approach and one that our best form of defence was to outscore the opposition which we generally did.

You generally defend from the front, it is team based not soley related to the back 5 including the keeper. Not saying the guy is beyond criticism but he has be en worth his team selection imo.

SlickRic

rarnes1 wrote: »

How the guy escapes criticism from some is beyond me.

his goals.

that is literally the only reason, and it's ridiculous.

Just looked back at the previous 14 or so seasons and most of them we shipped nowhere near the goals as last season. Bit mental when you consider we finished lower in the league the vast majority of them. Not sure how far I'd have to go back to see a worse defensive season?

Loads of players getting the blame :

Gerrard
Skrtel
Agger
Mingolet
Sakho
Lovern
Johnson
Lucas

There's no way these players are all poor defensively. Obviously some are better than others.

There's one person linking all these and that's Rodgers. He seems fairly incapable of getting a decent defensive system in place. You could any centre back in for us and we'd make them look poor.

When you have a world class player up top you can get away with it. However, take away the goals scored and we are still conceding for fun.

He needs a defensive coach or a change in tactics or its fairly obvious we won't be getting top 4.

daithijjj

Fescue wrote: »

I thought the 4 statistics I picked would be a fair reflection of what a defender should be doing. Obviously the sample size is small.

When I couple those statistics with what I see during the games, Skrtel and Lovren are by far the best pairing we have.

If Sakho improves and pushes ahead of them I'd be delighted but right now he's a distant third, possibly 4th given the squad for the Everton game.

On a certain statistical site Phil Jones is the 8th best player in Europe so far this season. Victor Moses is 9th.

Is there any other need for a debate on how useful statistics are?.

If you feel the same by just viewing games and ignoring stats then this is fair enough imo.

The only stat i used was goals that ended up in our net. A pretty important one. The reasons why are the ones we debate but i have little time for stats.

mosstin

Demosthenese wrote: »

Skrtel has been more solid than most in that position, considering our options. He had a good season aside from the mistakes he made he also shipped in with 7 goals and some were vital. I think you are combining "shipped most goals" thinking that it is purely a defensive issue! Last season was a cavalier approach and one that our best form of defence was to outscore the opposition which we generally did.

You generally defend from the front, it is team based not soley related to the back 5 including the keeper. Not saying the guy is beyond criticism but he has be en worth his team selection imo.

When I think of words to describe Skrtel, 'solid' would be the very last word to spring to mind.

rob316

rarnes1 wrote: »

Skrtel is not a great defender. He was poor last season, a season where we shipped the most goals in years. I think it was even worse than the Hodgson season.

How the guy escapes criticism from some is beyond me.

Look at who he had to partner him last season. Toure who started well but turned out to be a calamity and Agger who couldn't stay fit and was susceptible to many individual errors.

He has survived 4 managers at Liverpool and been first choice under all, they must see something in him?

brevity

Skrtel does well when he's being coached (I'd imagine Sahko is the same).

At the moment, I don't think there is any proper defensive coaching going on and as such they are playing with fear so they sit back waiting till the last minute to do anything. Lovern appears to have some defensive nous however he is suffering from having no help.

Skrtel had a good season when Steve Clarke was about iirc...perhaps getting someone like that in would help matters.