Garda failing to assist member of the public

highdef

Driving along the Lucan Road heading into Chapelizod, there was a Garda van in front. Further down the road, I noticed a man (looked to be in his late 60's/early 70's) notice the garda van approach. He was on the far side of the road at this point. The man crossed the road and when he reached the other side, he began to flag down the van however it just trundled on and completely ignored him. No idea what was wrong but the gardai simply failed to assist this member of the public. Is it common practice to ignore people looking for garda assistance?
I was rather shocked to see the Garda van ignoring this gentleman. The van did not appear to be on a shout, was not driving fast, had no blue lights or siren on so for the life of me, I can't figure out why it did not stop. Even if the van was just on a transfer or something between stations, they could have stopped to offer assistance and get whatever attention he needed.

Maybe someone here can give an explanation for this peculiar behaviour

Autonomous

I had a car stolen on me, within minutes I seen a cop car coming down the road and stopped them, told them what happened. They looked at me and then themselves and said 'Err.......what do you expect us to do? Ring the station'

timmywex

highdef wrote: »

Driving along the Lucan Road heading into Chapelizod, there was a Garda van in front. Further down the road, I noticed a man (looked to be in his late 60's/early 70's) notice the garda van approach. He was on the far side of the road at this point. The man crossed the road and when he reached the other side, he began to flag down the van however it just trundled on and completely ignored him. No idea what was wrong but the gardai simply failed to assist this member of the public. Is it common practice to ignore people looking for garda assistance?
I was rather shocked to see the Garda van ignoring this gentleman. The van did not appear to be on a shout, was not driving fast, had no blue lights or siren on so for the life of me, I can't figure out why it did not stop. Even if the van was just on a transfer or something between stations, they could have stopped to offer assistance and get whatever attention he needed.

Maybe someone here can give an explanation for this peculiar behaviour

It's often said around here - unless you were in the van no one really knows why they didn't stop and what was going on. For all we know they could have been following another vehicle and would have lost it if they stopped, or judged the place on the road a dangerous spot to stop.

Or just approaching the end of their shift, nothing gets in the way of that :pac:

Little CuChulainn

I presume you stopped yourself op. What was wrong with the man?

Timberrrrrrrr

highdef wrote: »

Driving along the Lucan Road heading into Chapelizod, there was a Garda van in front. Further down the road, I noticed a man (looked to be in his late 60's/early 70's) notice the garda van approach. He was on the far side of the road at this point. The man crossed the road and when he reached the other side, he began to flag down the van however it just trundled on and completely ignored him. No idea what was wrong but the gardai simply failed to assist this member of the public. Is it common practice to ignore people looking for garda assistance?
I was rather shocked to see the Garda van ignoring this gentleman. The van did not appear to be on a shout, was not driving fast, had no blue lights or siren on so for the life of me, I can't figure out why it did not stop. Even if the van was just on a transfer or something between stations, they could have stopped to offer assistance and get whatever attention he needed.

Maybe someone here can give an explanation for this peculiar behaviour

Could have had a prisoner in the back.

Bang Bang

timmywex wrote: »

Or just approaching the end of their shift, nothing gets in the way of that :pac:

That's when you apply the 'FIDO' principal, 'F#<k It, Drive On'

Santa Cruz

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I presume you stopped yourself op. What was wrong with the man?

Might have wanted them to sign his passport

highdef

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I presume you stopped yourself op. What was wrong with the man?

The gentleman was not looking to flag me down. He wanted the assistance of someone from An Garda Siochana, not a member of the public. Because I don't know what the man wanted the Garda for, I can only assume that I didn't have the abilities or powers he required to fulfill his needs.

noodler

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I presume you stopped yourself op. What was wrong with the man?

That is a very silly point to make.

The OP isn't paid to assist members of the public nor would the OP be in a position to take the place of the Gardai with whom the man on the road so clearly wanted to speak.

CosmicSmash

highdef wrote: »

The gentleman was not looking to flag me down. He wanted the assistance of someone from An Garda Siochana, not a member of the public. Because I don't know what the man wanted the Garda for, I can only assume that I didn't have the abilities or powers he required to fulfill his needs.

How did you know you couldn't have helped if you never asked?

e.r

Did he think he was flagging a taxi?

CosmicSmash

noodler wrote: »

That is a very silly point to make.

The OP isn't paid to assist members of the public not would the OP be in a position to take the place of the Gardai with whom the man on the road so clearly wanted to speak.

Have you ever heard of good deeds? Can I take it if I ever see your parents in need of assistance I can walk on by.

highdef

timmywex wrote: »

It's often said around here - unless you were in the van no one really knows why they didn't stop and what was going on. For all we know they could have been following another vehicle and would have lost it if they stopped, or judged the place on the road a dangerous spot to stop.

Or just approaching the end of their shift, nothing gets in the way of that :pac:

True, however there was nothing at all ahead....road was very quiet so it is quite unlikely they were following someone. If they were following someone, they weren't doing a very good job of it.
Stopping would not have been dangerous at all.....very clear stretch of road with good line of sight. Road conditions were fine.
I doubt there was a prisoner on board as the van in question had windows on the side.
Most likely conclusion seems to be end of shift so. Is 10am'ish an end of shift time? Otherwise it was just someone who was just pig ignorant!

noodler

Monkeykube wrote: »

Have you ever heard of good deeds? Can I take it if I ever see your parents in need of assistance I can walk on by.

You can take it that the thread is not about why a random member of the public did not try to take on the role and responsibility of a member of AGS.

Only on boards someone could be it with the "well, why didn't you do it?" response when a member of the Gardai does not do their job.

Timberrrrrrrr

noodler wrote: »

You can take it that the thread is not about why a random member of the public did not try to take on the role and responsibility of a member of AGS.

Only on boards someone could be it with the "well, why didn't you do it?" response when a member of the Gardai does not do their job.

But maybe they were doing their job,

Just because they didn't stop for someone waving them down at the side of the road does not mean they were not on their way to a call, You don't know if they had a prisoner, you don't know if they were on their way to a call and you don't know if they had other more important things to do. Random stranger at the road could be just looking for directions so why not stop and see if they are ok?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

noodler

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But maybe they were doing their job,

Just because they didn't stop for someone waving them down at the side of the road does not mean they were not on their way to a call, You don't know if they had a prisoner, you don't know if they were on their way to a call and you don't know if they had other more important things to do. Random stranger at the road could be just looking for directions so why not stop and see if they are ok?

I also don't know if it would have been a safe place for a civilian to stop and offer directions, if the OP had kids with him or other responsibilities.


What I do know from the OP's post is that the Gardai did nothing. If the question as to why can not be asked without someone using a "well, what did you do to help?" line then I don't know where we are heading.

Don't criticise the Gardai unless you yourself were prepared to do their job??

highdef

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Random stranger at the road could be just looking for directions so why not stop and see if they are ok?

That is the question; why didn't they stop and see if they were ok seeing as they are paid and hired to look after the safety and welfare of the public?

I have stopped to help members of the public before, when it was obvious that they needed the help of anyone. Most recently, a couple of months ago, I was in a line of traffic on Sarsfield Road at Inchicore. When the lights turned green, the car in front failed to move on. I beeped the horn but still nothing. Overtook the car and glanced in as I passed....there was a lady in her 60's sitting there looking in pain and distressed with her hands on her chest. I pulled in a little ahead and walked back. Turned out she was having a heart attack. Immediately called an ambulance and then kept her calm and spoke with her to keep her as calm as possible.

In this case, the member of the public needed the help of anybody who could help. The man I orginally referred too specifically requested the assistance of a member of Garda Siochana who was in the immediate. That member failed that request.

highdef

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I can't agree with this. As mentioned in my post above, I stopped to help the lady I referred to who was in mortal danger. True, it could have been a scam as I was not exactly in the nicest of areas however it was daytime and I could not see any sign of danger. I deemed the risk to be low and I most likely saved someones life. Different situation of course and obviously a lot more serious but just mentioned it as I knew I could assist in that case.

highdef

highdef wrote: »

True, however there was nothing at all ahead....road was very quiet so it is quite unlikely they were following someone. If they were following someone, they weren't doing a very good job of it.
Stopping would not have been dangerous at all.....very clear stretch of road with good line of sight. Road conditions were fine.
I doubt there was a prisoner on board as the van in question had windows on the side.
Most likely conclusion seems to be end of shift so. Is 10am'ish an end of shift time? Otherwise it was just someone who was just pig ignorant!

The vans doing the Special Criminal Court have windows on them so don't assume that there was no prisoner on board. If I had a prisoner on board I wouldn't be stopping.

Little CuChulainn

noodler wrote: »

That is a very silly point to make.

The OP isn't paid to assist members of the public not would the OP be in a position to take the place of the Gardai with whom the man on the road so clearly wanted to speak.

Gardaí aren't paid to assist the public either. They are paid to enforce the law, secure the state and preserve the peace. Everything else is gravy. The op has zero idea why they did not stop. He's making an assumption based on his own prejudice.

The notion that only the Gardaí can assist people is the "silly" one as far as I'm concerned.

3fullback

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Gardaí aren't paid to assist the public either. They are paid to enforce the law, secure the state and preserve the peace. Everything else is gravy. The op has zero idea why they did not stop. He's making an assumption based on his own prejudice.

The notion that only the Gardaí can assist people is the "silly" one as far as I'm concerned.

Oh dear god look at AGS mission statement.

You are so far wrong AGS provides a policing service, it's number one responsibility is to provide the people with that service. So that would include assisting members of the public. I can't comment on this case because I don't know all the facts.

But to say they aren't paid to assist is incorrect.

highdef

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Gardaí aren't paid to assist the public either. They are paid to enforce the law, secure the state and preserve the peace. Everything else is gravy. The op has zero idea why they did not stop. He's making an assumption based on his own prejudice.
QUOTE]

And what is to say that some sort of crime had been committed in this case?

A couple of years ago, I was getting new tyres on my car near Crumlin Shopping centre (and the garda station, incidentally) - I had some time to kill so went for a walk. A couple of minutes up the road, I heard a house alarm. Upon passing the house, I noticed the front door was open. Upon closer inspection I saw that a glass pane in the door was broken.
I went back to the footpath (for my own safety as I was unsure if there was a burglar inside) and rang Crumlin garda station (only a few hundred metres away). As I hung up, a very suspicious person emerged on top of the flat roof of the extension to the side of the house and he had large bag with him. He dissappeared and moments later popped out the front door.
He didn't look like the type of person that I would want to tackle so watched him head around the corner.
Just then, a garda car was passing (unconnected with my call) - I flagged them down and told them what had just happened. I jumped in the back with them, did a U turn and went looking for the guy. Sadly he was gone and the elderly couple from the house had a lifes worth of personal belongings and jewelery gone forever.
The point is that the guy in Chapelizod could have been in a similar situation to my situation above. The man was denied the chance to report a possible crime/medical emergency whatever. And I agree that it may have been something very mundane and it is also possible that the van had a prisoner in the back but it did annoy me somewhat.
May I ask why stopping to speak with a member of the public is not a good idea? Would it because that person could be connected with the prisoner on board and that it would be an attempt to hijack the vehicle??? The van was stopping at traffic lights so it's not as if it had to moving all the time.

Little CuChulainn

3fullback wrote: »

Oh dear god look at AGS mission statement.

You are so far wrong AGS provides a policing service, it's number one responsibility is to provide the people with that service. So that would include assisting members of the public. I can't comment on this case because I don't know all the facts.

But to say they aren't paid to assist is incorrect.

I have read the mission statement. It seems you have not.

highdef

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I have read the mission statement. It seems you have not.

Taken from Garda.ie - "The Mission of An Garda Síochána is Working with Communities to Protect and Serve" - I think this would cover assisting members of the community

Little CuChulainn

highdef wrote: »

And what is to say that some sort of crime had been committed in this case?

A couple of years ago, I was getting new tyres on my car near Crumlin Shopping centre (and the garda station, incidentally) - I had some time to kill so went for a walk. A couple of minutes up the road, I heard a house alarm. Upon passing the house, I noticed the front door was open. Upon closer inspection I saw that a glass pane in the door was broken.
I went back to the footpath (for my own safety as I was unsure if there was a burglar inside) and rang Crumlin garda station (only a few hundred metres away). As I hung up, a very suspicious person emerged on top of the flat roof of the extension to the side of the house and he had large bag with him. He dissappeared and moments later popped out the front door.
He didn't look like the type of person that I would want to tackle so watched him head around the corner.
Just then, a garda car was passing (unconnected with my call) - I flagged them down and told them what had just happened. I jumped in the back with them, did a U turn and went looking for the guy. Sadly he was gone and the elderly couple from the house had a lifes worth of personal belongings and jewelery gone forever.
The point is that the guy in Chapelizod could have been in a similar situation to my situation above. The man was denied the chance to report a possible crime/medical emergency whatever. And I agree that it may have been something very mundane and it is also possible that the van had a prisoner in the back but it did annoy me somewhat.
May I ask why stopping to speak with a member of the public is not a good idea? Would it because that person could be connected with the prisoner on board and that it would be an attempt to hijack the vehicle??? The van was stopping at traffic lights so it's not as if it had to moving all the time.

There are a number of reasons not to stop on a main road to have a discussion. Safety aside, there is the consideration that they might actually have someone on board. There is no Garda van based in that area that has windows on the side except those used for prison escorts and possibly crime scene vans, neither of which should stop for the public.

Little CuChulainn

highdef wrote: »

Taken from Garda.ie - "The Mission of An Garda Síochána is Working with Communities to Protect and Serve" - I think this would cover assisting members of the community

Yes, with criminal matters.

twowheelsonly

Does the OP even know if there was a Garda driving the van?

Could have been a mechanic or a civilian driver from the Garda depot for all they know. As someone already stated they could have had a prisoner on board as well in which case stopping for someone on the side of the road could look pretty stupid in their 'escape report' !!

Is the OP even sure it was a Garda van? Could have been a prison van as well - they use that road frequently from the courts to Cloverhill.

Little CuChulainn

In fact, on further thought, I don't actually know of any marked Garda vans in that area that have windows in the sides. Is the op sure this was not a prison service van?

Timberrrrrrrr

noodler wrote: »

I also don't know if it would have been a safe place for a civilian to stop and offer directions, if the OP had kids with him or other responsibilities.


What I do know from the OP's post is that the Gardai did nothing. If the question as to why can not be asked without someone using a "well, what did you do to help?" line then I don't know where we are heading.

Don't criticise the Gardai unless you yourself were prepared to do their job??

Maybe i am just looking at it from my perspective, If i saw someone at the side of the road (specially a woman or elderly person) Then i would stop and see if i could be of assistance.

Esel

Can't a member of the public be prosecuted for not coming to the assistance of a garda when requested to do so?

Esel

Esel wrote: »

Can't a member of the public be prosecuted for not coming to the assistance of a garda when requested to do so?

No.

Shady Tady

Maybe the didn't see him!

pah

Nobody knows why they didn't stop and nobody knows what the member of the public required.

I've been flagged down by people in HighDefs situation who have witnessed a crime, I've also been flagged down by people to ask things like "Do I need a towing licence for such and such" or "I saw a suspicious person at a house" When was this (me) " Oh last tuesday week. Generally I get flagged down with BS but I would always stop when I can.

I have on occasion not stopped for people who have tried to flag me down because, there is a prisoner on board or maybe it's the local looney who flags down the car all the time for no reason. If they really need the Gardaí they will phone the station or 999.

I can honestly say I've never been in a car with a member having spotted someone trying to get our attention and ignored them (except for the lad on saturday night that you know is only asking for a lift home - "Sure you have to drop me home its the law")