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Media sympathetic coverage/agenda with evictions

  • 27-08-2014 12:42pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 785 ✭✭✭


    Another example today of the mainstream media's very predictable reporting on any case to do with eviction.

    Headline: Couple evicted from rented Dublin property in their pyjamas 'left homeless with no clothes' - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/couple-evicted-from-rented-dublin-property-in-their-pyjamas-left-homeless-with-no-clothes-30541264.html

    The article is full of subjective drivel, quotes from the couple in question, and of course a socialist TD chiming in that evictions should be outlawed.

    Little mention that:

    They were notified in November 2010 that their tenure was being terminated because the house was being put up for sale.

    They have appeared in court a number of times and were told they would be jailed if they did not evacuate the house.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭GavMan


    Did this guy really go down to the shops for phone credit and cigs in his stocking feet?

    On the one hand I find myself saying, would it really have killed the Sheriff to simply come into the house, ask the women to get dressed and then for her to leave? Then on another, I have a feeling that if they didn't use shock and awe to get them out, they would have taken the piss and not left.

    Also, they turned down the offer of free accommodation so I have very little sympathy for this pair


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭lima


    There seems to be a lot of hostility for these people which may be warranted but the fact is there are 1000's of people not paying their mortgages for years getting away with the same kind of thing and there is no one kicking up a fuss about that..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Is anyone kicking up a fuss about this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    On all the news reports it's very quickly skimmed over that they've ignored court orders to vacate the premises and then they spend about 5 minutes reporting on how the poor awl cretors were tossed out of their home in their pyjamas at 7.30am.
    Then audio clip is played with the old biddy whinging how they've been 'failed by the State'. Old geezer chimes in with 'the justice system in this Country is a joke'.

    Funnily enough, I'd agree with him - there should be a lot more of these evictions taking place up and down the country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭lima


    murphaph wrote: »
    Is anyone kicking up a fuss about this?

    http://www.thejournal.ie/coyne-castleknock-pensioners-eviction-1639300-Aug2014/

    Lot's of "that’s life when you rent"

    But when there's mention of a poor old homeowner failing to pay their mortgage there's anger towards the bank and lobby groups are kicking up a fuss.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,605 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Do they have friends that they can stay with for a while rather than "sleep in a van"?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    lima wrote: »
    http://www.thejournal.ie/coyne-castleknock-pensioners-eviction-1639300-Aug2014/

    Lot's of "that’s life when you rent"

    But when there's mention of a poor old homeowner failing to pay their mortgage there's anger towards the bank and lobby groups are kicking up a fuss.
    A few comments does not a fuss or otherwise make.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    They have had plenty of time to find accommodation but they refuse to move outside the area, even though they can't find anywhere to accept rent allowance. Plenty of places outside Dublin with great transport access to Dublin that would be perfectly affordable and probably a great deal nicer than any place they'd get here on RA. The bank has been refusing their rent cheques for months, they can clearly afford a hotel. They also have family nearby, which is why they want to stay in the area. No chance they'll be on the streets and they know it, it's all for sympathy. I feel sorry for them losing their home I really do, it sucks, but at the end of the day, they're only tenants, it's not their property, and the homeowner has been delayed in paying off his debts thanks to them. They need to stop blaming the State due to bad advice from Ruth Coppinger, who has been egging them on the whole time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The landlord has gone into receivership and the bank's receiver is the one pushing ahead with the eviction. It's not clear to me if he went bust before or after the eviction proceedings began.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    Seems they got refused for legal aid. I wonder if it's because they have means that they are not disclosing?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    They had sunk a lot of money into building their own house while renting that one, and wound up selling it (i think) so they prob still have some money from that, as well as all the unaccepted rent cheques since December.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭lima


    murphaph wrote: »
    A few comments does not a fuss or otherwise make.

    There's no scientific definition of Fuss so comments on a tabloid website could constitute fuss!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,166 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Some media outlets are letting them make unchallenged claims that the bailiff 'broke the law' now. *They* broke the law, I don't think the bailiff did.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    lima wrote: »
    There's no scientific definition of Fuss so comments on a tabloid website could constitute fuss!
    Cut to the chase. Your point was that nobody was making waves about poor renters being turfed out but that people like "New Beginnings" etc. are making waves on behalf of defaulting mortgage holders. The fact is however that there are left wing politicians making waves and throwing shapes on behalf of tenants being evicted, even in this very case. There are just fewer renters than owner occupiers maybe, so the stories of over holding tenants facing eviction "woes" are fewer and farther apart?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    rawn wrote: »
    They had sunk a lot of money into building their own house while renting that one, and wound up selling it (i think) so they prob still have some money from that, as well as all the unaccepted rent cheques since December.

    Disclosed on Drivetime their previous house reposessed by ACC.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Disclosed on Drivetime their previous house reposessed by ACC.

    That's awful. Couldn't imagine pouring my heart and soul into building a home only to have the bank take it off you. It still doesn't excuse the fact that they think the house they've been evicted from somehow belongs to them. Every article I read about it focuses on the fact that they were in pj's and are going to "sleep in a van". What happened to all the rent they must have saved? They were getting RA so I assume the rent was €700 p/m x 8 months = €5600. Plenty of hotel rooms and B&B's for that price. I am so much less sympathetic to their predicament because it seems all they want is sympathy!*

    *and to keep the house that isn't theirs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    murphaph wrote: »
    Cut to the chase. Your point was that nobody was making waves about poor renters being turfed out but that people like "New Beginnings" etc. are making waves on behalf of defaulting mortgage holders. The fact is however that there are left wing politicians making waves and throwing shapes on behalf of tenants being evicted, even in this very case. There are just fewer renters than owner occupiers maybe, so the stories of over holding tenants facing eviction "woes" are fewer and farther apart?

    The previous thread in this very sub-forum was an eye opener as to the differing attitudes when it's tenants being evicted versus mortgage payers being evicted.
    They do need to leave and there's almost certainly holes in their story but some of the bile directed their way in that thread was quite vicious.
    There are just fewer renters than owner occupiers maybe
    That's almost certain but there are also fewer PPR households in arrears than people renting (& liable to be removed after 28 days if they stop paying) so why the special treatment for the much smaller group?

    There are actual lobby groups campaigning for people not paying for their accommodation to stay in it or get debt write-offs at the expense of everybody else and nobody bats an eyelid. I don't see an equivalent lobby group for renters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Yet they have no sympathy for the landlord. According to the IT:
    Mr Byrne (Counsel for ACC Bank) said the refusal of the Coynes to move out meant the landlord’s debts were increasing month by month.

    So basically it was, screw him, we're staying put. A load of contradictory nonsense as well about sleeping with family/van/shelter/park bench...I am 100% sure this couple will not be sleeping in anything other than a private house this evening. They are obstinate in the extreme if you ask me, almost worse than a defaulting mortgage holder because their actions are causing additional distress to an individual, their former landlord, whereas a defaulting mortgage holder causes financial distress to a bank/state at large, so the unfair burden is at least spread around a bit.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Disclosed on Drivetime their previous house reposessed by ACC.

    15 years ago?


    I read this link this morning: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/couple-evicted-from-rented-property-will-spend-tonight-in-a-van-30541264.html

    Which seems to have been completely changed. Earlier, it said that their 37 year old son also lived with them, and had a quote that they had applied to 15 properties since they were told they had to move.

    When I was apartment hunting earlier this year, and I'm sure anyone else who has rented recently can attest to this, I was trying 5-10 places per week. It took about 6 weeks to find somewhere.

    What exactly makes these people so special and different to the rest of us that they deserve such special treatment? I can only imagine that the people who jump to the defence of this case are of a similar ilk who expect everything for nothing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    gaius c wrote: »
    I don't see an equivalent lobby group for renters.
    Nobody stopping over holding tenants from forming a lobby group is there?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    murphaph wrote: »
    Nobody stopping over holding tenants from forming a lobby group is there?

    They'd be laughed out of town. That's my point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    murphaph wrote: »
    Nobody stopping over holding tenants from forming a lobby group is there?

    Indeed, and Threshold get State funding, my understanding is lobby groups for mortgagees are not in reciept of such funding. This is a red herring in any case, arrears are falling, and will continue to fall as the economy recovers. The arrears are not forgiven, but either capitalised or warehoused.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Indeed, and Threshold get State funding, my understanding is lobby groups for mortgagees are not in reciept of such funding. This is a red herring in any case, arrears are falling, and will continue to fall as the economy recovers. The arrears are not forgiven, but either capitalised or warehoused.

    You're honestly drawing an equivalence between a group defending tenant's legal rights to a group advocating taxpayers money be spent on wealth transfers to those who purchased too much?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭lima


    murphaph wrote: »
    Cut to the chase. Your point was that nobody was making waves about poor renters being turfed out but that people like "New Beginnings" etc. are making waves on behalf of defaulting mortgage holders. The fact is however that there are left wing politicians making waves and throwing shapes on behalf of tenants being evicted, even in this very case. There are just fewer renters than owner occupiers maybe, so the stories of over holding tenants facing eviction "woes" are fewer and farther apart?

    I'm not chasing anything.

    There's general hostility towards renters in Ireland and that link was evidence of it. There are plenty of people who are disgusted with renting/renters but refuse to pay their mortgages and feel they are entitled to either stay in their house or get a write down or both.

    My point is that there should be far more anger about the people not paying their mortgages but everyone seems to turn a blind eye to them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Neither should be state funded. Tenants should fund their own tenants' associations and property owners/landlords should do likewise. At least there is an Irish Property Owners Association, which is funded entirely from subscriptions, no such association on the tenants' side...they have the state funded threshold I suppose. Why can't landlords get state funding to support them when they need assistance with delinquent tenants?! It's unfair I tells ya!

    In actual fact "Threshold" should be tenant funded, just like the equivalent organisations over here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Is their any landlord here who would rent to these people after all their shenanigans?. I'd be looking at them thinking what if I want to sell up in a year or 2 and get rid of them. They've created a problem of their own doing. Not unless I was desperate for a tenant would I consider them.

    I wonder could that have been one of the reasons as to why they couldn't find a new place?.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    lima wrote: »
    I'm not chasing anything.

    There's general hostility towards renters in Ireland and that link was evidence of it. There are plenty of people who are disgusted with renting/renters but refuse to pay their mortgages and feel they are entitled to either stay in their house or get a write down or both.

    My point is that there should be far more anger about the people not paying their mortgages but everyone seems to turn a blind eye to them
    I'm angry about them. Lots of people on this forum are angry about them. You're angry about them. It simply isn't true that "everyone seems to turn a blind eye to them".

    I don't believe there's a general hostility towards renters either. How do you deduce that exactly? Are people generally hostile towards you when they find out that you rent your home?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    gaius c wrote: »
    You're honestly drawing an equivalence between a group defending tenant's legal rights to a group advocating taxpayers money be spent on wealth transfers to those who purchased too much?

    Both are advocacy groups. I have no problem with Threshold being funded, If tenants want another lobby group, they should form one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭JohnBee


    This is a perfect example of the welfare recipient's world view.

    As a tax payer, economics is the primary factor in deciding where you live and a perfect example are the many commuter towns around Dublin.

    Welfare recipients such as the Coynes seem to think that they should be exempt from normal economic rules and should be "entitled" to live where they choose irrespective of cost. Given that they had a number of years to find a place, they well had enough time. The report that rent in the area is now 1400 per month probably wouldn't have applied if they had moved when they got first notice.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    I've no sympathy for renters or mortgagees alike who either don't pay their accommodation costs or don't have a legal claim to the accommodation that they inhabit.

    No eviction by a sheriff takes place without a long protracted hulabaloo. These clowns have had ample time to source alternative accommodation/state services.
    These clowns were even offered FREE housing from some generous fool in the US.

    Poor old Rabogroup. They just want out of this godforesaken hell hole.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭lima


    murphaph wrote: »
    I'm angry about them. Lots of people on this forum are angry about them. You're angry about them. It simply isn't true that "everyone seems to turn a blind eye to them".

    I don't believe there's a general hostility towards renters either. How do you deduce that exactly? Are people generally hostile towards you when they find out that you rent your home?

    Well I get looked down upon for renting, and sneered at for not 'getting on the ladder'. Not here but in the mad world of thejourna.ie comments section


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    lima wrote: »
    Well I get looked down upon for renting, and sneered at for not 'getting on the ladder'. Not here but in the mad world of thejourna.ie comments section
    Forget the internet. In real life have you had these experiences? On the internet people say things just to wind others up so you have to take all that with a large pinch of salt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,523 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    murphaph wrote: »
    Yet they have no sympathy for the landlord. According to the IT:


    So basically it was, screw him, we're staying put. A load of contradictory nonsense as well about sleeping with family/van/shelter/park bench...I am 100% sure this couple will not be sleeping in anything other than a private house this evening. They are obstinate in the extreme if you ask me, almost worse than a defaulting mortgage holder because their actions are causing additional distress to an individual, their former landlord, whereas a defaulting mortgage holder causes financial distress to a bank/state at large, so the unfair burden is at least spread around a bit.

    I think both should be evicted if they are not paying but that attitude seems to be that it's okay to stick to the bank but don't stick it to the poor landlord. They are both businesses at the end of the day.

    These attitudes seem to be the trickle down result of the family home being seen as sacred and a basic right without the responsibility that has been growing since the bust.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 989 ✭✭✭piperh


    As has already been posted this did not happen overnight so very little sympathy but a point was raised earlier about rent allowance limits. They really do need to be looked at properly.

    I have relatives 2 yrs off retirement age who have rented their whole adult life, they worked for the same company and were let go 2 yrs ago. Because of their age couldn't get another job and now suffering ill health are now on jsa and rent allowance. The ra for their area is nearly e300 a mnth less than their rent. To rent a suitable (mobility issues) property that ra would cover they had to move over 100km.

    For some areas the limits are ridiculous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭kdevitt


    rawn wrote: »
    They had sunk a lot of money into building their own house while renting that one, and wound up selling it (i think) so they prob still have some money from that, as well as all the unaccepted rent cheques since December.

    Was just discussing this with my missus and hit upon this thread from a search. I actually walk past the house they built every morning. It's a 5 bed dormer in a pretty bad location which was on the market for over 1 million when they'd completed it. Totally unfitted as well.

    From reading the other articles it was built based on a 250k loan, so it does kind of seem like they gambled and lost. Only recently was it moved into, and last time I saw the asking price was roughly 300k.

    I still feel very sorry for them - they drink down the local - but a large part of the responsibility has to fall on their shoulders.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,605 ✭✭✭✭josip


    kdevitt wrote: »
    I still feel very sorry for them - they drink down the local - but a large part of the responsibility has to fall on their shoulders.

    I'm struggling to understand the relevance of the middle bit to either the opening or closing points. Can you explain please?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭lima


    murphaph wrote: »
    Forget the internet. In real life have you had these experiences? On the internet people say things just to wind others up so you have to take all that with a large pinch of salt.

    I'm not purposefully trying to be snappy in my posts. Yes I have from a few people after they had a bit of drink on them. They would not say it sober but would hide behind a computer or a couple of pints.

    Remember 2006, there was something wrong with you if you didn't buy a house and the same type of thinking remains (we I guess the Negative Equity brigade wish they didn't)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭kdevitt


    josip wrote: »
    I'm struggling to understand the relevance of the middle bit to either the opening or closing points. Can you explain please?

    It's relevant because I know them to see, and played football with their son, so they're not randomers. It's also relevant because I still feel it's primarily their own fault.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    My heart goes out to them Joe, it really does. Anyway what about United this season, ****e or what?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    It really sickens me with these protests and the socialists getting involved. Its simple - pay for your house or get out .

    we should fast-track repossessions and boot people out after 6-8 months , this lark of keeping people around is doing nobody any favours, and it keeps pushing up prices in areas lacking properties where solvent people are waiting to buy.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,315 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    MEATH NOT GOOD ENOUGH???

    F**kin leeched didn't pay their rent, and caused a man to lose his house.

    HE LOST HIS HOUSE BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO PAY THE RENT.

    Who in their right mind would rent a place to them, when they don't pay the rent of their current house???


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    It was my understanding that they were either paying rent or that the bank had been refusing to take it?

    Edit:
    They continued paying their €800 monthly rent until KPMG stopped accepting it last December.

    See more at: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/couple-threatened-with-eviction-have-nowhere-else-to-go-30455743.html#sthash.KBXCHVVK.dpuf


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    It was my understanding that they were either paying rent or that the bank had been refusing to take it?

    Edit:

    I thought the same that there were no issues with them paying rent?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    piperh wrote: »
    I have relatives 2 yrs off retirement age who have rented their whole adult life, they worked for the same company and were let go 2 yrs ago. Because of their age couldn't get another job and now suffering ill health are now on jsa and rent allowance. The ra for their area is nearly e300 a mnth less than their rent. To rent a suitable (mobility issues) property that ra would cover they had to move over 100km.

    For some areas the limits are ridiculous.

    But that's not a RA issue, that's a social housing issue. It is disgraceful we have allowed our housing stock be decimated. It would be economically and socially better for your relatives to live in social/council housing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    the_syco wrote: »
    MEATH NOT GOOD ENOUGH???

    F**kin leeched didn't pay their rent, and caused a man to lose his house.

    HE LOST HIS HOUSE BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO PAY THE RENT.

    Who in their right mind would rent a place to them, when they don't pay the rent of their current house???

    Did they refuse it? Ruth Coppingers page on FB says it "fell through".


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    By them not moving it would be my, uneducated in these matters, opinion that the debt of the landlord who wanted to sell the place would have been increasing through interest etc.
    ACC Bank is seeking repossession of the home because the landlord, Daragh Ward, went into receivership in 2012 and they want to sell the house to reduce his debt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭delahuntv


    I reckon the media will realise they been suckered and sold a pup on this all in the aim of publicity.

    They were told over 3 years ago that the house had to be sold.

    Landlord than had properties put in receivership.

    Receiver then informed coynes that house was going on market and gave the a FURTHER 3 months to vacate.

    They at all time refused to move.

    Receiver stopped accepting rent last October.

    Coynes were receiving rent allowance from the social welfare system - did they refuse this or refund this considering they were not paying rent since last October.

    They refused a free house in Navan because it needed a little work done to it.

    The seem to be unwilling to trade down to a 2 bed apartment or move to another area.



    No landlord will take them at this stage as they have proven to be one of the worst tenants you could have.

    I have ZERO pity for them because they are trying to play the "pity" card without telling the truth. - There are many people out there who are truthful and in genuine need of help. The coynes are not one of them.

    Hopefully the media will cathc on to this scam and reveal them for the deceiving types they are.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    It is a big question what was happening to the rent allowance.

    Doesn't it go straight to the landlord usually?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,647 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Folks, I've issued warnings and infractions. While people may have qualms about the situation, some people have made comments that go too far. Remember that we are still dealing with human beings who have thoughts and feelings.
    gaius c wrote: »
    Seems they got refused for legal aid. I wonder if it's because they have means that they are not disclosing?
    We don't know why, so let's not speculate.

    Legal aid won't always be granted in a civil case.

    CatFromHue wrote: »
    It is a big question what was happening to the rent allowance.
    None of our business, so no speculation please.
    Doesn't it go straight to the landlord usually?
    No.

    Moderator


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    It is a big question what was happening to the rent allowance.

    Doesn't it go straight to the landlord usually?

    RA is paid to the tenant, who then pays it to the LL. They just have to pay €35 p/w IIRC.


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